View Poll Results: Is suicide selfish?

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  • Yes

    152 73.79%
  • No

    54 26.21%
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  1. #101
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Two View Post
    Right but at the end of the day a persons moral is unique to them and them alone everyone's sense of moral is a little different...for example if somebody slapped you, you may think it's fair to punch that person and that's about it..but if a person slapped me in the same way i may think that person deserves to be killed. Maybe everyones morality is the same in idea that we all know senseless killing is bad or whatever you are arguing, but it doesn't mean that every part of everybody's morality is the same or was the same in any time of humans existance, there never was one true morality and even the thought of that doesn't make sense each human is born differently with differences in the way we think and the way we do things we cannot all agree on even basic moral

    It is impossible to prove that there is no one morality but you cannot disprove it either, however it is easy to disprove the fact that there is not a true/ absoulute morality.
    Sir, what you are referring to are particular moral values, slap someone and you fight back or you turn the other cheek. What I am arguing for is not the particulars but the form the "ought" which Kant defines as the "Categorical Imperative" that which can be defined by no other term but itself. The idea of "ought" is external from the influence of cultural differences and cannot be conveyed to anyone neither by your mentor, your society or your culture, it is an innate consciousness of obligation of morals values.
     
         
    Last edited by Sir Derp Obito; 01-13-2013 at 01:23 AM.

  2. #102
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    There actually is a basic set of morals all humans share and is most likely genetic. They've tested this by presenting the same scenarios to people across cultures and seeing what choices they would make and in certain circumstances almost everyone answers the same way.
    Indeed, whether it is genetic, anthropological or divine in nature is a matter of speculation or research, but the fact remains that there are absolute immutable moral laws that are external from the influences of culture and dogma.
     
         

  3. #103
    Member PhazoN's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    There actually is a basic set of morals all humans share and is most likely genetic. They've tested this by presenting the same scenarios to people across cultures and seeing what choices they would make and in certain circumstances almost everyone answers the same way.
    All humans share it? Highly doubt it.
    "One man's right is another man's wrong...
    One man's pleasure is another man's pain...
    One man's good is another man's evil..."
    Please provide an example of something that ALL humans consider evil/wrong.
     
         

  4. #104
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Sir, you are confusing concepts, murder is distinct from killing because it is unlawful killing because it involves malice. while "killing" in the strictest definition is to cause death you kill someone out of self-defense or by accident then it is not considered murder and therefore you did not violate the law. Capital punishment is not murder but killing by taking the life of the convicted criminal as the retribution of the law and the state for the offenses committed. You are confusing terms.
    Laws that are subjective. They're subject to change, they have changed and they are changing. Laws one bade one to stone blasphemers to death; was that morally right? Unlawful is not a valid argument when it comes to morals and ethics, as laws are a product of the moral values we've accepted and integrated into our society.
    You're not adressing the main issue; taking another's life has once been considered good and morally correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Indeed, whether it is genetic, anthropological or divine in nature is a matter of speculation or research, but the fact remains that there are absolute immutable moral laws that are external from the influences of culture and dogma.
    What you're talking about is instincts. Biology. Which has nothing to do with 'right or wrong'. There is no feeling of 'right' or 'wrong' in killing or not killing instinctually.
    You're confusing 'absolute moral values' with instincts. You're not talking about morals, you're talking about genetics. Almost every single race on Earth incstinctually avoids killing or kills members of its own race, yet these Animals have no sense of right and wrong, because such basic instinctual behavior does not fall under the category of moral values.
     
         
    Last edited by Zero Kelvin; 01-13-2013 at 01:40 AM.

  5. #105
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    What you're talking about is instincts. Biology. Which has nothing to do with 'right or wrong'. There is no feeling of 'right' or 'wrong' in killing or not killing instinctually.
    You're confusing 'absolute moral values' with instincts. You're not talking about morals, you're talking about genetics. Almost every single race on Earth incstinctually avoids killing or kills members of its own race, yet these Animals have no sense of right and wrong, because such basic instinctual behavior does not fall under the category of moral values.
    Exactly they have no sense of right and wrong because they lack the faculties of rational thought, but you are mistaken again in that you assume I was referring to the genetics of the lower animals for I meant it, in the context of my statement, exclusively to humans, beings of rational thought. You merely took my words out of context, pray do tell how animals can have culture and dogma if I meant to refer to them as well?
     
         
    Last edited by Sir Derp Obito; 01-13-2013 at 01:48 AM.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    In most cases yes
     
         

  7. #107
    Insomnia is a bitch... Two's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Exactly they have no sense of right and wrong because they lack the faculties of rational thought, but you are mistaken again in that you assume I was referring to the genetics of the lower animals for I meant it, in the context of my statement, exclusively to humans, beings of rational thought. You merely took my words out of context, pray do tell how animals can have culture and dogma if I meant to refer to them as well?
    i agree.
    But to say that there is 1ONE1 absolute morality is wrong there are anomalies and not everysingle persons morals are the same...in general is there a consensus on moral yes, but that doesn't mean there is an absolute moral ...which is what i have been trying to say the whole time
     
         

  8. #108
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Two View Post
    i agree.
    But to say that there is 1ONE1 absolute morality is wrong there are anomalies and not everysingle persons morals are the same...in general is there a consensus on moral yes, but that doesn't mean there is an absolute moral ...which is what i have been trying to say the whole time
    Like I said before. I am not arguing for the particulars of morality that is influenced by society or culture but that of the categorical imperative that is universal and innate in human beings.
     
         

  9. #109
    Senior Member jonsnow1991's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    It's a hard question to answer. If someone is suffering from some sort of disease or something, and they are in pain, they should be allowed to relieved of their pain. If his/her loved ones wants him to stay alive because they don't want to lose that person, that in turn makes them selfish.

    Old people who live most of their last years in hospitals should be allowed to die if that's what they want, but that is not legal. But we put down dogs when they get too old, or too sick.

    I had a friend who killed himself. I won't give all the details, but it was a gruesome death. I don't know his reasoning behind it, but he wasn't ill or anything, had a ton of friends and was loved by many people. He did it at 19 years old. He did it the selfish way
     
         

  10. #110
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Depends on the situation.

    Suicide itself isn't really an easy thing to do since some people don't have the courage to do it and end up backing away from it. Yet, if they would have done it anyway, they'll still be considered cowards by other people. In the end, it's all a matter of opinion. Just like people here have different opinions about it.
     
         

  11. #111
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhazoN View Post
    I think it's an easy way out for those that are suffering/depressed. Not only that, but by doing so they also make others suffer, voluntarily or not. Overcoming obstacles in life, that's what takes true bravery, imo. What do you think?
    If you think it's a selfish act or that it's cowardly then you've obviously never had the inclination. I have and going through with it takes balls. Also most people alive are living for selfish reasons so that point is moot really.
    Suicide is a personal act, some do it for honor, some do it to avoid certain traumas(like how tens of thousands of German women comitted suicide rather than be raped by the Red army), and some do it because they realize that they live in a ****ed up world with ****ed up rules and are surrounded by ****ed up people. That isn't selfish, cowardly, or crazy it's just an option some choose to take.
     
         

  12. #112
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    yes it is. But it's also understandable. If someone can't bear the pain he or she carries inside it's sad but at the same time not the fault of that Person. We are just humans and not machines and humans are sensitive and weak beings so all you can do is to have and to show understanding.
     
         

  13. #113
    Member thai sage's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhazoN View Post
    I think it's an easy way out for those that are suffering/depressed. Not only that, but by doing so they also make others suffer, voluntarily or not. Overcoming obstacles in life, that's what takes true bravery, imo. What do you think?
    i think its unfair to judge anyone in the situation of where they might consider taking that route, you dont know the situation of each individual person who might contemplate or attempt that sort of thing. You dont know how you would handle the situations that person has gone through, you can say that you would take the other road but until you have experienced what they have, which is impossible, you can say with an absolute certainty given the same circumstances you wouldn't do the same thing.

    I do agree though, that it takes true bravery to overcome some very overwhelming obstacles that people get put into in this crazy world, but that dosent meant that people who lack this courage are selfish or should intern be judged by others, it just makes you think before you judge someone, you dont know whats going on in their day their life or what have you, we should all try to be a bit more understanding of each other.
     
         

  14. #114
    Brilliant sG Taka's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    You are all a bunch of judgmental pricks. Nobody can judge a person who commits suicide other than him or herself.

    Learn some ****ing respect.
     
         

  15. #115
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Im sorry to disagree but it is not selfish unless you have someone depending on you. Theres a real moral issue when one leaves a child to fend for himself. However I digress and bring back my earlier point. If you live alone and noone depending on you then suicide is not considered selfish. Of course, it is a foolish and contemptable move in ones decision. A questionable decision to say the least.
     
         

  16. #116
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    if you #cutforbeiber

    your shit
     
         

  17. #117
    Senior Member cptenn94's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    im sorry but suicide in most cases are selfish that is the fact. you can argue it however you want, but it is selfish. The thing is is to argue if its right or wrong. That is up to everybody. I think it is wrong no matter what.

    The only time it is fine if it is to save someone, like going on a suicide mission etc.
     
         

  18. #118
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmWumbo View Post
    It's a ***** move, truthfully I don't care the slightest bit about those people.
    I don't feel like I lost something valuable whenever someone commits suicide.
    totally agree with this
     
         

  19. #119
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    If you can't come in this world with your wish than you don't have right to leave this world with your wish.
    By the way those who don't believe in Allah(God) they shouldn't be any problem with suicide.
     
         

  20. #120
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    A lot of people have said this already, but it depends on the person, their circumstances, their past, and their own resolve.
    Some people are naturally weak-willed (that's not meant insultingly, it's just a statement), and find it genuinely more difficult to cope with things that others might consider to be endurable. Or, they might have been raised to believe that the world is hell and then when it's proven to them, they try and escape to a better place through death. I don't think suicide is the right thing to do, and I do consider it to be somewhat of a "coward's way out", as some people call it, it's selfish, but I can understand why some people just want to let it all go and be "free", in a sense. You don't know what's going through their head, ever. A person cheery on the outside could be a storm of pain inside.
    Some people have had stuff happen to them that traumatises them so badly they just don't want to have to deal with the pain anymore.
    One could argue that suicide is a coward's way out because the world has been so cruel and terrible to them that they want to give a little back. I'd say that's how a suicidal person would see it; "If the world treats me like utter shit, why should I spare them any pain when they don't care about me?" Of course, they do have people that care about them, but through their eyes, they don't realise that, and legitimately don't understand.
    On the other hand, you have people that face trouble in early life and think "Screw it" and get out early. They face a little bit of trouble and think "Hey, I'm depressed, I'm one of those people that you hear about in the news. I should just kill myself, that'd teach 'em." They're the really selfish ones that I think are really in the wrong, when they don't have a legitimate cause to die, just doing it because they can't see any light in the forseeable future or ignore the light that is there. But at the same time, I can't bring myself to brush them aside, because they're human beings just like us. They don't deserve to have their death mocked or insulted just because they took the easy way out. I still respect their memory.

    In the end, it's impossible to say. I won't support, condemn, or be neutral towards suicide (I know that's impossible, but it's a figure of speech -_-) It's a topic that shouldn't be bandied about lightly and shouldn't be...not sure what the word is, but similar to "stereotyped". It shouldn't be cast into one basket labelled "Selfish", if that makes sense.
     
         

  21. #121
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    What do you know about suicide...who are you to judge people?
     
         

  22. #122
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Yes.
     
         

  23. #123
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    "It's impossible to comprehend the anguish & hopelessness of someone who dies by their own hand. Something has gone wrong with their wiring. It is a physical illness. They are not selfish, or abandoning anyone. The images of people they love are impossible for them to conjure up. They cannot see us - they lack that, "normal", natural, functional wiring. We cannot comprehend the "aloneness" that they feel - family and friends who love them. I have no point of reference to understand the pain of a parent that has lost a child - I can try to imagine, but in imagining I still know it isn't real. You cannot imagine the heart and mind of a suicide. But know this - we were not created to take our own lives and if we do, and there is a heaven - I believe suicides get to be the first in line - they, among all of us deserve the love and compassion most of all."
    -ForcedZucchini
     
         

  24. #124
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    In the end, it all boils down to the practices you subscribe to. In Christianity, suicide is considered to be murder without asking for forgiveness, because technically you have murdered yourself. In Afghanistan and Iraq, if you committed suicide via bomb and killed the enemy, you were rewarded. In ancient times, it was better for samurai to take their own life over the possibility of dishonor falling upon them, since honor was the most important thing. It all depends upon the individual's view and how what they put their faith in. As for atheists... I don't know, they probably consider it to be the cowards way out.
     
         

  25. #125
    Senior Member Henchman24's Avatar
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    If a live is being given for another then no. If the person can't comprehend what they are doing then no. Other than that it is selfish, cowardly, pathetic and hurts all of those connected. No matter how bad it can get there is always tomorrow or the next day so on. Suicide it seems is one of many ways that nature weeds out the weak.
     
         

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