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  1. #51
    Eagle of the leaves Daakioso's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    I'll make it sound simple: No one is stronger than anyone else if we do not see Kishi draw it for us and make it an actual fact. We saw Naruto beat the shit out of Pain, meaning Naruto is stronger than Pain. We did not see Pain crush Obito, or Obito crush Pain, meaning we do not know who would have won, and we can't guess cause the writer of the story might have had other techniques for each of them in a different situation. Meaningless discussion really..
     
         

  2. #52
    Member KakuzuHatesMoney's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiLeeHatake View Post
    Nagato is an idiot. Intelligence is invaluable when it comes to the Narutoverse. Therefore Obito>Nagato.
    That's what I was thinking too. Nagato is my favourite character, but he just isn't smart enough.
     
         

  3. #53
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Er, why would Pain randomly know what's going on? The point is, most shinobi will naturally let their guard down when they think they've killed their opponent. Nagato isn't someone who has knowledge on forbidden Uchiha techniques (from what we know), so he has no reason to suspect that Obito has a way of making disadvantageous moments mere illusions. Seeing chakra with the Sharingan didn't stop Sasuke being taken aback initially by Danzou. The Rinnegan can see chakra, suggesting it can do anything else is simply speculation.



    His body isn't there, so it won't work. Quite frankly, that's like saying Shinra Tensei can be used on someone if their body is in a completely different country. There's nothing there to affect with gravity.



    That dog can still be incapacitated (as we saw with Amaterasu), so being pierced with multiple Mokuton spikes isn't something it can freely tank without consequence. Obito just knows everything because of Madara, that's why he's such an effective fighter.
    First of all, did you really just compare wooden spikes with Amaterasu? I seriously hope you don't believe it would have the same effect.


    Alright I get your point about intangibility but Pain, like Konan, has full knowledge about Kamui as well, including its advantages. Izanagi can throw him off, but in order for it to be effective Obito has to use it at such a time when Pain is vulnerable or exhausted. Which I don't see happening against Obito, against Naruto......it's a different story.

    Say Obito does corner Nagato on his chakra satellite, we still don't know whether the King of Hell is even affected by Kamui, he can just reach for Obito's soul and it's game over.
     
         

  4. #54
    Senior Member Retsu's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    I agree, konan confirmed that when he demolished konoha, he wasn't even at full power stating that his moves were't as powerful, and his recovery time was longer.
     
         

  5. #55
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    First of all, did you really just compare wooden spikes with Amaterasu? I seriously hope you don't believe it would have the same effect.
    Well, if you think Cerberus can freely fight without consequence with spikes the size of this [1] sticking through its skull, perhaps I wasted my time responding to this thread.

    Alright I get your point about intangibility but Pain, like Konan, has full knowledge about Kamui as well, including its advantages. Izanagi can throw him off, but in order for it to be effective Obito has to use it at such a time when Pain is vulnerable or exhausted. Which I don't see happening against Obito, against Naruto......it's a different story.
    It's still a threat, that's all i'm saying. It's clear that Obito can cause Pain some problems and vice versa.

    Say Obito does corner Nagato on his chakra satellite, we still don't know whether the King of Hell is even affected by Kamui, he can just reach for Obito's soul and it's game over.
    Nagato is hooked up to a machine and unable to move, Obito would casually warp him or just have a large chunk of Mokuton protrude from the floor.
     
         

  6. #56
    Senior Member Narutoga's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Nagato controls all the Path's, he is all of them combined and has all their powers, I doubt Obito can stop something like that.
    may be
     
         

  7. #57
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Nagato takes Obito easily, Obito has not a single chance of winning this fight. In my eyes, we have barely seen anything from his rinnegan's full potential.
     
         

  8. #58
    Senior Member Retsu's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    also, cerberus will not go down to anything less than amaterasu.
     
         

  9. #59
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Well, if you think Cerberus can freely fight without consequence with spikes the size of this [1] sticking through its skull, perhaps I wasted my time responding to this thread.



    It's still a threat, that's all i'm saying. It's clear that Obito can cause Pain some problems and vice versa.



    Nagato is hooked up to a machine and unable to move, Obito would casually warp him or just have a large chunk of Mokuton protrude from the floor.
    Thats its ability, it multiplies when you hurt it, and it doesn't have to worry about brain damage.

    Obito has only been shown to do that in times of extreme mental distress, his anger and rage amplified his Mokuton. I doubt he can manipulate it like you're saying in a controlled state of mind. Not to mention he had a Zetsu body providing him a lot of extra power that he doesn't have in his current state.

    I am pretty sure Obito gets defeated by the Rinnegan.
     
         

  10. #60
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Thing is, Mokuton Sashiki is actually one of the most hax Jutsu in the manga. If Cerberus is pierced by multiple branches, Obito is able to make them grow by a considerable amount remotely. I'm all for Cerberus hax, but you're actually saying it can fight without consequence with its head looking like this. I find that highly unreasonable, considering Naruto canonically injured one with just a Rasengan [1].

    Where did it say Obito's anger amplified his Mokuton? It didn't. And the Zetsuit was only compensation for what Obito's weakened body (which he had just destroyed trying to break the boulder) was unable to do at that time. The Zetsu is perfectly integrated into his body now, that's why he can use Mokuton, replace limbs and freely manipulate Hashirama's cells (to control the Juubi).
     
         
    Last edited by OnPoint; 01-13-2013 at 09:11 PM.

  11. #61
    Senior Member Retsu's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Thing is, Mokuton Sashiki is actually one of the most hax Jutsu in the manga. If Cerberus is pierced by multiple branches, Obito is able to make them grow by a considerable amount remotely. I'm all for Cerberus hax, but you're actually saying it can fight without consequence with its head looking like this. I find that highly unreasonable, considering Naruto canonically injured one with a Rasengan [1].

    Where did it say Obito's anger amplified his Mokuton? It didn't. And the Zetsuit was only compensation for what Obito's weakened body (which he had just destroyed trying to break the boulder) was unable to do at that time. The Zetsu is perfectly integrated into his body now, that's why he can use Mokuton, replace limbs and freely manipulate Hashirama's cells (to control the Juubi).
    Cerberus has been pierced many times before, the only thing mokuton does is create an army of invincible hounds from hell
     
         

  12. #62
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retsu View Post
    Cerberus has been pierced many times before, the only thing mokuton does is create an army of invincible hounds from hell
    Show me where Cerberus has been pierced in the head by multiple spikes which are able to grow and ultimately protrude from all sides of its skull.
     
         

  13. #63
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    When Obito's body is in his dimension he can still be seen in the normal one, isn't there a chance human-path can take his oul even when he's intangible.
     
         

  14. #64
    Senior Member Retsu's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Show me where Cerberus has been pierced in the head by multiple spikes which are able to grow and ultimately protrude from all sides of its skull.
    as soon as Cerberus is pierced he divides, the dog can not be stopped by physical attacks, the only thing that ever stopped Cerberus is either amaterasu, or killing the summoner, you're the only person on the base who's crazy enough to think wooden spikes would kill Cerberus.
     
         

  15. #65
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retsu View Post
    as soon as Cerberus is pierced he divides, the dog can not be stopped by physical attacks, the only thing that ever stopped Cerberus is either amaterasu, or killing the summoner, you're the only person on the base who's crazy enough to think wooden spikes would kill Cerberus.
    I said show me the page where Cerberus' brain/skull was completely destroyed in order to back up your claim. Even dividing will be useless, because each head will take some Moktuon with it, and Obito can just make that part grow too. The chakra rods located in the head which give Nagato his control could also be destroyed.
     
         

  16. #66
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retsu View Post
    Cerberus has been pierced many times before, the only thing mokuton does is create an army of invincible hounds from hell
    This^
    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Thing is, Mokuton Sashiki is actually one of the most hax Jutsu in the manga. If Cerberus is pierced by multiple branches, Obito is able to make them grow by a considerable amount remotely. I'm all for Cerberus hax, but you're actually saying it can fight without consequence with its head looking like this. I find that highly unreasonable, considering Naruto canonically injured one with just a Rasengan [1].

    Where did it say Obito's anger amplified his Mokuton? It didn't. And the Zetsuit was only compensation for what Obito's weakened body (which he had just destroyed trying to break the boulder) was unable to do at that time. The Zetsu is perfectly integrated into his body now, that's why he can use Mokuton, replace limbs and freely manipulate Hashirama's cells (to control the Juubi).
    The manga did better than just saying it, it showed it. 'Hell' was all about him losing control and doing things he normally wouldn't have done consciously, his sudden realisation of his situation put him back into that frenzy, and that's how it kept going, back and forth until the end of the chapter.The fact that Obito was able to do anything similar to that time in 'Hell' via only the Juubi sort of proves that.
     
         

  17. #67
    Rising T Bogard's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Persia TTT View Post
    I always considered Nagato as the strongest
    obito already had kamui
    if he was so op and shit he could have killed him and obtained the rinnegan and carried the plan acc.
    to his way or maybe the plot wasnt designed like that
    It wouldn't have been a good decision for him to take Nagato's Rinnengan since someone needed to die to revive Madara, so living Nagato with the Rinnengan to accomplish the task was the best option. He needed a pawn who was Nagato
     
         

  18. #68
    Senior Member Retsu's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    I said show me the page where Cerberus' brain/skull was completely destroyed in order to back up your claim. Even dividing will be useless, because each head will take some Moktuon with it, and Obito can just make that part grow too. The chakra rods located in the head which give Nagato his control could also be destroyed.
    no matter where you stab the dog, it'll just split and divide, it isn't that hard of a concept to understand, the dog even tanked a giant rasengan, which has way more destructive power than most mokuton attacks.



    There's no way a summon that durable will die to something as petty as being stabbed by some wood.
     
         

  19. #69
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    The manga did better than just saying it, it showed it. 'Hell' was all about him losing control and doing things he normally wouldn't have done consciously, his sudden realisation of his situation put him back into that frenzy, and that's how it kept going, back and forth until the end of the chapter.The fact that Obito was able to do anything similar to that time in 'Hell' via only the Juubi sort of proves that.
    Yeah, like unconsciously slaughtering people like an animal. A Kekkei Genkai like that isn't something that'll go away and can still be used at will.
     
         

  20. #70
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Yeah, like unconsciously slaughtering people like an animal. A Kekkei Genkai like that isn't something that'll go away and can still be used at will.
    A much weaker version of it was shown recently against Naruto.
     
         

  21. #71
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retsu View Post
    no matter where you stab the dog, it'll just split and divide, it isn't that hard of a concept to understand, the dog even tanked a giant rasengan, which has way more destructive power than most mokuton attacks.



    There's no way a summon that durable will die to something as petty as being stabbed by some wood.
    The head isn't just some random part of the body. Your first line is nothing more than an assumption, we've never seen the dog get pierced in the skull from multiple angles [1]. Yeah, the dog will continue to fight as normal without consequence if it's whole head has been destroyed by multiple branches of wood. The chakra receivers are indestructible and can't be destroyed, right? The Rasengan isn't comparable to the mechanics of Mokuton Sashiki, which isn't hitting the dog, rather, piercing/cutting/stabbing it's entire head. You may have well just compared it to Amaterasu and asked why it didn't put the dog down too. Once a brach goes in, Obito can have it grow and grow and inflict injury and pain on all parts.
     
         

  22. #72
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    A much weaker version of it was shown recently against Naruto.
    He has not used Mokuton Sashiki against Naruto. Only a casual Mokuton form to try and hold him back as he tried to quickly warp Kakashi. It was situational. If Obito needs to destroy, as he would against Pain, then the big boys are going to come out.
     
         

  23. #73
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    He has not used Mokuton Sashiki against Naruto. Only a casual Mokuton form to try and hold him back as he tried to quickly warp Kakashi. It was situational. If Obito needs to destroy, as he would against Pain, then the big boys are going to come out.
    If the combination of 5 Tailed Beast Bombs didn't demonstrate his will to destroy, I don't know what will.
     
         

  24. #74
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    If the combination of 5 Tailed Beast Bombs didn't demonstrate his will to destroy, I don't know what will.
    Yeah, it's situational, why would he use Mokuton Sashiki against a guy who's casually destroying Mountains? He's also looking to capture Naruto, not kill him.
     
         

  25. #75
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Yeah, it's situational, why would he use Mokuton Sashiki against a guy who's casually destroying Mountains? He's also looking to capture Naruto, not kill him.
    The Juubi was already on its way to resurrection, Obito's plan was to kill everyone else since then, it was Madara who decided to capture them.
    Mokuton Sashiki would be his best bet after failing with 5 TBB's, he didn't use it, because he couldn't.
     
         

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