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  1. #41
    NB's Black God Kαmi's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by unorthodox View Post
    please tell me how can the 6pop fight 6 bijuu when there bodies where getting destroyed by naruto punches in base rasengan plus obito has better controll over the mazo did nagato does also if where talking about nagato

    6 bijuu plus obito combo will get his intervals
    I believe OP is talking about a time when both the 6POP and Obito (or in this case Tobi) coexisted. This would mean pre-rinnegan Obito and his six paths.
     
         

  2. #42
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Agree Nagato was the strongest
     
         

  3. #43
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Itachi>Pein
     
         

  4. #44
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    He has Mokuton, which was hidden from us for plot/identity reasons. He will use Izanagi if he has to. So these aren't things you can ignore. And with regards to your final point. Obito isn't your typical MS user like Itachi or Sasuke who would be dispatched by a stronger Rinnegan user. You need a special type of power (ala, S/T Ninjutsu) to defeat him, that's canon [1]. The only way Pain is winning is if he can spam his Jutsu and force Obito to remain intangible (and therefore unable to warp). But the former has nothing for a complete Izanagi.
    Mokuton is no match for Shinra Tensei. Izanagi is just an extended version of his intangibility. Since becoming intangible is a jutsu and not actual dematerialisation, Shinra Tensei should be able to repel it and draw it with Bansho Tenin. Pain has enough animal summons and Demon Path has more than enough weapons to make Obito exploit his Kamui and Izanagi. We don't even know if the King of Hell is even affected by intangibility.
     
         

  5. #45
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Mokuton is no match for Shinra Tensei.
    Yeah, but when the majority of the other realms have been crushed, Pain will have a problem.

    Izanagi is just an extended version of his intangibility.
    No, because Izanagi is the type of Jutsu which will catch Pain off guard just when he thinks he's been victorious.

    Since becoming intangible is a jutsu and not actual dematerialisation, Shinra Tensei should be able to repel it and draw it with Bansho Tenin.
    He doesn't exist in this plane of reality when he becomes intangible, so neither of those Jutsu will be effective. The only time Shinra Tensei will be invaluable is when Obito attempts to warp the God Realm, because he'll need to become tangible to do so and Shinra Tensei will have maximum effectiveness.

    Pain has enough animal summons and Demon Path has more than enough weapons to make Obito exploit his Kamui and Izanagi. We don't even know if the King of Hell is even affected by intangibility.
    Which is one of Pain's strengths, but most of the summons will be crushed or impaled by Mokuton Sashiki. The thing is, one of Pain's main strengths was the complexity and overall mysteriousness surrounding his abilities. That strength is nulled by Obito's indepth knowledge of the 6 paths Jutsu which Madara taught him through and through. Basically, this isn't as clear as you're suggesting.
     
         

  6. #46
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Yeah, but when the majority of the other realms have been crushed, Pain will have a problem.



    No, because Izanagi is the type of Jutsu which will catch Pain off guard just when he thinks he's been victorious.



    He doesn't exist in this plane of reality when he becomes intangible, so neither of those Jutsu will be effective. The only time Shinra Tensei will be invaluable is when Obito attempts to warp the God Realm, because he'll need to become tangible to do so and Shinra Tensei will have maximum effectiveness.



    Which is one of Pain's strengths, but most of the summons will be crushed or impaled by Mokuton Sashiki. The thing is, one of Pain's main strengths was the complexity and overall mysteriousness surrounding his abilities. That strength is nulled by Obito's indepth knowledge of the 6 paths Jutsu which Madara taught him through and through. Basically, this isn't as clear as you're suggesting.
    The only reason Konan fell for that was because she didn't know what was going on. Shared field of vision will always tell Pain what's going on, not to mention, there is a possibility that Rinnegan can see beyond the normal eye in terms of perception, as in chakra color etc.

    Regardless, it's a jutsu and his image still appears in that plain. Pain has the ability to repel and attract all physical forms and and all manner of jutsu. It is the reason Yahiko Path was called GOD MODE, it's like having a power God himself would have.


    Except for the one that keeps multiplying when you hurt it(Cerberus), that's all he really needs. Knowledge of God cannot contest the power of God.
     
         

  7. #47
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Don't we already know this?
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Contract seal > The summoning path :P
     
         

  9. #49
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrafty View Post
    Don't we already know this?
    Apparently not.
     
         

  10. #50
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    The only reason Konan fell for that was because she didn't know what was going on. Shared field of vision will always tell Pain what's going on, not to mention, there is a possibility that Rinnegan can see beyond the normal eye in terms of perception, as in chakra color etc.
    Er, why would Pain randomly know what's going on? The point is, most shinobi will naturally let their guard down when they think they've killed their opponent. Nagato isn't someone who has knowledge on forbidden Uchiha techniques (from what we know), so he has no reason to suspect that Obito has a way of making disadvantageous moments mere illusions. Seeing chakra with the Sharingan didn't stop Sasuke being taken aback initially by Danzou. The Rinnegan can see chakra, suggesting it can do anything else is simply speculation.

    Regardless, it's a jutsu and his image still appears in that plain. Pain has the ability to repel and attract all physical forms and and all manner of jutsu. It is the reason Yahiko Path was called GOD MODE, it's like having a power God himself would have.
    His body isn't there, so it won't work. Quite frankly, that's like saying Shinra Tensei can be used on someone if their body is in a completely different country. There's nothing there to affect with gravity.

    Except for the one that keeps multiplying when you hurt it(Cerberus), that's all he really needs. Knowledge of God cannot contest the power of God.
    That dog can still be incapacitated (as we saw with Amaterasu), so being pierced with multiple Mokuton spikes isn't something it can freely tank without consequence. Obito just knows everything because of Madara, that's why he's such an effective fighter.
     
         

  11. #51
    Eagle of the leaves Daakioso's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    I'll make it sound simple: No one is stronger than anyone else if we do not see Kishi draw it for us and make it an actual fact. We saw Naruto beat the shit out of Pain, meaning Naruto is stronger than Pain. We did not see Pain crush Obito, or Obito crush Pain, meaning we do not know who would have won, and we can't guess cause the writer of the story might have had other techniques for each of them in a different situation. Meaningless discussion really..
     
         

  12. #52
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiLeeHatake View Post
    Nagato is an idiot. Intelligence is invaluable when it comes to the Narutoverse. Therefore Obito>Nagato.
    That's what I was thinking too. Nagato is my favourite character, but he just isn't smart enough.
     
         

  13. #53
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Er, why would Pain randomly know what's going on? The point is, most shinobi will naturally let their guard down when they think they've killed their opponent. Nagato isn't someone who has knowledge on forbidden Uchiha techniques (from what we know), so he has no reason to suspect that Obito has a way of making disadvantageous moments mere illusions. Seeing chakra with the Sharingan didn't stop Sasuke being taken aback initially by Danzou. The Rinnegan can see chakra, suggesting it can do anything else is simply speculation.



    His body isn't there, so it won't work. Quite frankly, that's like saying Shinra Tensei can be used on someone if their body is in a completely different country. There's nothing there to affect with gravity.



    That dog can still be incapacitated (as we saw with Amaterasu), so being pierced with multiple Mokuton spikes isn't something it can freely tank without consequence. Obito just knows everything because of Madara, that's why he's such an effective fighter.
    First of all, did you really just compare wooden spikes with Amaterasu? I seriously hope you don't believe it would have the same effect.


    Alright I get your point about intangibility but Pain, like Konan, has full knowledge about Kamui as well, including its advantages. Izanagi can throw him off, but in order for it to be effective Obito has to use it at such a time when Pain is vulnerable or exhausted. Which I don't see happening against Obito, against Naruto......it's a different story.

    Say Obito does corner Nagato on his chakra satellite, we still don't know whether the King of Hell is even affected by Kamui, he can just reach for Obito's soul and it's game over.
     
         

  14. #54
    Senior Member Retsu's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    I agree, konan confirmed that when he demolished konoha, he wasn't even at full power stating that his moves were't as powerful, and his recovery time was longer.
     
         

  15. #55
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    First of all, did you really just compare wooden spikes with Amaterasu? I seriously hope you don't believe it would have the same effect.
    Well, if you think Cerberus can freely fight without consequence with spikes the size of this [1] sticking through its skull, perhaps I wasted my time responding to this thread.

    Alright I get your point about intangibility but Pain, like Konan, has full knowledge about Kamui as well, including its advantages. Izanagi can throw him off, but in order for it to be effective Obito has to use it at such a time when Pain is vulnerable or exhausted. Which I don't see happening against Obito, against Naruto......it's a different story.
    It's still a threat, that's all i'm saying. It's clear that Obito can cause Pain some problems and vice versa.

    Say Obito does corner Nagato on his chakra satellite, we still don't know whether the King of Hell is even affected by Kamui, he can just reach for Obito's soul and it's game over.
    Nagato is hooked up to a machine and unable to move, Obito would casually warp him or just have a large chunk of Mokuton protrude from the floor.
     
         

  16. #56
    Senior Member Narutoga's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Nagato controls all the Path's, he is all of them combined and has all their powers, I doubt Obito can stop something like that.
    may be
     
         

  17. #57
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Nagato takes Obito easily, Obito has not a single chance of winning this fight. In my eyes, we have barely seen anything from his rinnegan's full potential.
     
         

  18. #58
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    also, cerberus will not go down to anything less than amaterasu.
     
         

  19. #59
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Well, if you think Cerberus can freely fight without consequence with spikes the size of this [1] sticking through its skull, perhaps I wasted my time responding to this thread.



    It's still a threat, that's all i'm saying. It's clear that Obito can cause Pain some problems and vice versa.



    Nagato is hooked up to a machine and unable to move, Obito would casually warp him or just have a large chunk of Mokuton protrude from the floor.
    Thats its ability, it multiplies when you hurt it, and it doesn't have to worry about brain damage.

    Obito has only been shown to do that in times of extreme mental distress, his anger and rage amplified his Mokuton. I doubt he can manipulate it like you're saying in a controlled state of mind. Not to mention he had a Zetsu body providing him a lot of extra power that he doesn't have in his current state.

    I am pretty sure Obito gets defeated by the Rinnegan.
     
         

  20. #60
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    Re: Let's get something straight.

    Thing is, Mokuton Sashiki is actually one of the most hax Jutsu in the manga. If Cerberus is pierced by multiple branches, Obito is able to make them grow by a considerable amount remotely. I'm all for Cerberus hax, but you're actually saying it can fight without consequence with its head looking like this. I find that highly unreasonable, considering Naruto canonically injured one with just a Rasengan [1].

    Where did it say Obito's anger amplified his Mokuton? It didn't. And the Zetsuit was only compensation for what Obito's weakened body (which he had just destroyed trying to break the boulder) was unable to do at that time. The Zetsu is perfectly integrated into his body now, that's why he can use Mokuton, replace limbs and freely manipulate Hashirama's cells (to control the Juubi).
     
         
    Last edited by OnPoint; 01-13-2013 at 10:11 PM.

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