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  1. #1
    Academy Student DanRock's Avatar
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    What Kishi failed to do all along

    You know guys, Naruto is a complex story and I think it should be discussed like one. So how about we once tried talking to each other as if we were like...well I don't know. Like "Not on the internet" and try to be kind to each other?
    So I'd be thankful if you people tried not to go like "Yo, sasuke beat 'em all up and sakura sucks UCHIHAPOWA" e.t.c. and discussed properly with me.

    I'm gonna try to make this as easily readable as possible, despite my rather average English skills (I only learned with Dora!)


    Watching the latest Chapters I have noticed more and more, that Kishi did a huge mistake he himself didn't want to do. Yes, I'm pretty sure most people already noticed it all along, but I never had the feeling he'd have done it "by mistake".
    What I'm talking about here is the depht and development of almost all his characters.

    Don't get me wrong, I really love Naruto, it's a great Story, but didn't you guys also get the feeling there was something odd with Neji's death and Hinata's love? Let's be serious: If you leave out all fan made drama, there wasn't much feeling to it. It was really, really forced. I doubt anyone felt any romance between Naruto and Hinata and I also doubt anyone actually felt REALLY sad about Neji dying, yet these short panels looked so "dramatic".
    It felt forced, because it was. It felt like Kishi noticed his Manga was going to end and remembered how he did a brilliant job developing Naruto and a few others, but most of the other characters just didn't change the slightest from chapter 0.
    So he wanted to force feelings on us. Feelings we wouldn't have, because these characters mostly don't mean much to us.

    Yeah, sure, every now and then someone get's hung up on a side character, but that's it. The majority felt Neji was nothing but fodder and could have been replaced by anyone else.

    On the other hand I have to say, that Kishi had no other option to make up for his mistake, because, let's be honest:
    Even though the Juubi fight has been dragging, it HAD to be done. This will probably be Naruto's (2nd) most important fight and considering the fight against Sasuke (which is bound to happen...) will probably have enough happening to fill a whole season, Naruto just needed this. He needed this kind of "ending chapters" with his friends.
    And I gotta say, he didn't do that much of a bad job on this one, he just filled the gap between introducing these characters and this "end" with a big mass of nothing.
    Even Sakura has had no progress at all, and she's a main character.

    By now I actually understand this fanboyism about Sasuke very well, as he is one of the few characters developed very well. I'd even say that an outstanding job was done developing his character (though I myself until the point where Itachi was revived and he talked a bit with him couldn't actually understand him too well).
    But that's it.

    The characters developed the best were Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi (+ a few others, but these ones were by far the best). There is literaly nothing else.
    Yes, you COULD say that Kakashi was developed well due to his gaiden, but he really wasn't. Kishi just often showed how much unused potential was in this character.
    I mean, he was a genius who was Jonin with the age of a teen. He was an Anbu. His best childhood friend now turned into a the greatest threat the country has ever faced. He has the sharingan as a non Uchiha and he's quite good at using it.
    Even though having this much of seriously interesting background information, we still don't even really know how strong he is compared to other Ninjas. We only know that was weaker than Itachi once and considering he is SUPPOSED to have improved during Shippuuden not even that is 100% certain anymore.

    Actually, we can barely tell about anyone how strong he is compared to other Ninjas. Most versus threads are mostly fans flaming their souls out of each other, and the character with the bigger fanbase wins. (Which is why Itachi kinda counts as a Naruto God, as it seems like 80% of humanity loves him)

    One more great example for that is Sakura.
    Well, let's start with basics:
    Any anime reaches that one point where they have one female character that's just completely useless. Most Mangakas are mostly as kind as to announce suchs characters in the openings. They can easily be identified once you see them from the side and either the sky turns completely white or there is a kind of transparent picture of some love interest being shown behind them. You know all hope is lost for this character ever being interesting if you see her folding her hands in the opening. You don't believe me? Well, count how many times Orihime from bleach already prayed.
    Not to mention these characters almost always get to be the healers. And only for the reason that they need just ANY role, just to stay in the story. Seriously, wether Naruto is healed by Sakura or anyone else doesn't change ANYTHING in the story. Yet, if I ever had to choose a side on this whole stupid NaruSaku or Naruhina thing I'd probably say:

    "I really, really really don't care." at first. But then I'd say: "No, really, I really don't care at all." And if people still insisted on know my opinion I'd say "Dude, I really couldn't care less..."


    YET I have to say, if my life depended on chosing either one of these, I'd still go for Narusaku as Sakura at least had SOME kind of development. Sure it's nice, that Hinata had some kind of affection towards Naruto all along, but the only thing that qualifies her to be paired with Naruto would be, that Hinata is just not as stupid as Sakura (seriously, she barely knew Sasuke, what the hell is with that over-dramatized romance?).


    Well, as you can guess I wanted to type a whole lot more, but seriously It's getting pretty damn late and I want to sleep. So, sorry if this post was horrible or something, I really can't tell, as I'm just frickin tired, but I wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't post this!!!
    I just felt there was SO much Kishi could have done better. I really wish he had given a bit more thought on his side characters, like Oda in One Piece (admit it, every single character had enough depht to fill a whole anime, and most of them didn't even have half the background they had in Naruto. Yet, they were more interesting. Kishi really missed a chance there)

    So what do you think? And which character do you feel was wasted the most?
     
         

  2. #2
    ☆Mystogan☆ Jellal Fernandes's Avatar
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Not reading that...
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kárma's Avatar
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Ever heard of Moderation? This is wayy to much text
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    dosu from part 1 had so much potential
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    It is a manga but i dont get it though are you sad or happy? I mean he has to kill some characters like Neji Ten ten an maybe gay
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Quote Originally Posted by DanRock View Post
    You know guys, Naruto is a complex story and I think it should be discussed like one. So how about we once tried talking to each other as if we were like...well I don't know. Like "Not on the internet" and try to be kind to each other?
    So I'd be thankful if you people tried not to go like "Yo, sasuke beat 'em all up and sakura sucks UCHIHAPOWA" e.t.c. and discussed properly with me.

    I'm gonna try to make this as easily readable as possible, despite my rather average English skills (I only learned with Dora!)


    Watching the latest Chapters I have noticed more and more, that Kishi did a huge mistake he himself didn't want to do. Yes, I'm pretty sure most people already noticed it all along, but I never had the feeling he'd have done it "by mistake".
    What I'm talking about here is the depht and development of almost all his characters.

    Don't get me wrong, I really love Naruto, it's a great Story, but didn't you guys also get the feeling there was something odd with Neji's death and Hinata's love? Let's be serious: If you leave out all fan made drama, there wasn't much feeling to it. It was really, really forced. I doubt anyone felt any romance between Naruto and Hinata and I also doubt anyone actually felt REALLY sad about Neji dying, yet these short panels looked so "dramatic".
    It felt forced, because it was. It felt like Kishi noticed his Manga was going to end and remembered how he did a brilliant job developing Naruto and a few others, but most of the other characters just didn't change the slightest from chapter 0.
    So he wanted to force feelings on us. Feelings we wouldn't have, because these characters mostly don't mean much to us.

    Yeah, sure, every now and then someone get's hung up on a side character, but that's it. The majority felt Neji was nothing but fodder and could have been replaced by anyone else.

    On the other hand I have to say, that Kishi had no other option to make up for his mistake, because, let's be honest:
    Even though the Juubi fight has been dragging, it HAD to be done. This will probably be Naruto's (2nd) most important fight and considering the fight against Sasuke (which is bound to happen...) will probably have enough happening to fill a whole season, Naruto just needed this. He needed this kind of "ending chapters" with his friends.
    And I gotta say, he didn't do that much of a bad job on this one, he just filled the gap between introducing these characters and this "end" with a big mass of nothing.
    Even Sakura has had no progress at all, and she's a main character.

    By now I actually understand this fanboyism about Sasuke very well, as he is one of the few characters developed very well. I'd even say that an outstanding job was done developing his character (though I myself until the point where Itachi was revived and he talked a bit with him couldn't actually understand him too well).
    But that's it.

    The characters developed the best were Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi (+ a few others, but these ones were by far the best). There is literaly nothing else.
    Yes, you COULD say that Kakashi was developed well due to his gaiden, but he really wasn't. Kishi just often showed how much unused potential was in this character.
    I mean, he was a genius who was Jonin with the age of a teen. He was an Anbu. His best childhood friend now turned into a the greatest threat the country has ever faced. He has the sharingan as a non Uchiha and he's quite good at using it.
    Even though having this much of seriously interesting background information, we still don't even really know how strong he is compared to other Ninjas. We only know that was weaker than Itachi once and considering he is SUPPOSED to have improved during Shippuuden not even that is 100% certain anymore.

    Actually, we can barely tell about anyone how strong he is compared to other Ninjas. Most versus threads are mostly fans flaming their souls out of each other, and the character with the bigger fanbase wins. (Which is why Itachi kinda counts as a Naruto God, as it seems like 80% of humanity loves him)

    One more great example for that is Sakura.
    Well, let's start with basics:
    Any anime reaches that one point where they have one female character that's just completely useless. Most Mangakas are mostly as kind as to announce suchs characters in the openings. They can easily be identified once you see them from the side and either the sky turns completely white or there is a kind of transparent picture of some love interest being shown behind them. You know all hope is lost for this character ever being interesting if you see her folding her hands in the opening. You don't believe me? Well, count how many times Orihime from bleach already prayed.
    Not to mention these characters almost always get to be the healers. And only for the reason that they need just ANY role, just to stay in the story. Seriously, wether Naruto is healed by Sakura or anyone else doesn't change ANYTHING in the story. Yet, if I ever had to choose a side on this whole stupid NaruSaku or Naruhina thing I'd probably say:

    "I really, really really don't care." at first. But then I'd say: "No, really, I really don't care at all." And if people still insisted on know my opinion I'd say "Dude, I really couldn't care less..."


    YET I have to say, if my life depended on chosing either one of these, I'd still go for Narusaku as Sakura at least had SOME kind of development. Sure it's nice, that Hinata had some kind of affection towards Naruto all along, but the only thing that qualifies her to be paired with Naruto would be, that Hinata is just not as stupid as Sakura (seriously, she barely knew Sasuke, what the hell is with that over-dramatized romance?).


    Well, as you can guess I wanted to type a whole lot more, but seriously It's getting pretty damn late and I want to sleep. So, sorry if this post was horrible or something, I really can't tell, as I'm just frickin tired, but I wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't post this!!!
    I just felt there was SO much Kishi could have done better. I really wish he had given a bit more thought on his side characters, like Oda in One Piece (admit it, every single character had enough depht to fill a whole anime, and most of them didn't even have half the background they had in Naruto. Yet, they were more interesting. Kishi really missed a chance there)

    So what do you think? And which character do you feel was wasted the most?


    OT: I read it all.. wow.. it good. + Rep.

    Edit: I don't think he was making us feel emotions that weren't there for neji though..
     
         
    Last edited by Awkward Linguist; 01-16-2013 at 09:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Shikaku's sacrifice felt pretty bad-ass for a sudden side character death. I agree with Neji's death though, Kishi really neglected him in Part 2. Up to the point where he didn't get a single panel of speech in the same chapter that the rest of the Konoha rookies did (even Tenten had her moment).
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    I agree but for a different reason the war could of elaborated on every ones strength but the gap got to wide leaving others in the dust.
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    So god damn true, it's sad. Almost every K11 member has nondevelopment other than Naruto. The closest would be Hinata & Neji and even they fail with their development.
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    I think lack of development in characters is due to the 3 man cell under a captain setup kishi used early in the story. This prevents him from focusing on other characters as it would require him to turn completely away from Team Kakashi which obviously wont be liked by fans...... so only durring the war they are together and only durring the war they can be developed.

    And yes i feel it to be rather sudden too.
     
         

  11. #11
    Academy Student DanRock's Avatar
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    I guessed many wouldn't read.^^ Sorry for the post being that long and all, but I ACTUALLY TRIED MAKING IT READABLE.

    And thanks for the rep!

    So to everyone who didn't want to read:


    My point is that most characters were wasted and not developed too well and was asking if you felt the same/which ones were wasted the most in your opinion.
     
         

  12. #12
    Senior Member Kárma's Avatar
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Quote Originally Posted by DanRock View Post
    I guessed many wouldn't read.^^ Sorry for the post being that long and all, but I ACTUALLY TRIED MAKING IT READABLE.

    And thanks for the rep!

    So to everyone who didn't want to read:


    My point is that most characters were wasted and not developed too well and was asking if you felt the same/which ones were wasted the most in your opinion.
    Dont worry its not your fault ill read it l8r i just dont feel like reading right now i gotta do homework which i have to read a 500 page long book for
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorien16 View Post
    I think lack of development in characters is due to the 3 man cell under a captain setup kishi used early in the story. This prevents him from focusing on other characters as it would require him to turn completely away from Team Kakashi which obviously wont be liked by fans...... so only durring the war they are together and only durring the war they can be developed.

    And yes i feel it to be rather sudden too.

    Yes, you're right on that one, but he could have at least developed these characters more. I mean, he often just teased us with Kakashi, Sakura is almost nonexistent and don't get me started on Sai!
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Quote Originally Posted by DanRock View Post
    Yes, you're right on that one, but he could have at least developed these characters more. I mean, he often just teased us with Kakashi, Sakura is almost nonexistent and don't get me started on Sai!
    The only solution i can think of is Spin offs...... weekly if possible.
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Not all authors continue character developments if the story is going to end..
    The main character afterall is Naruto,etc and the rest are just minor characters.
    Plus we already knew who the characters are and how they came to be through out part 1 and half of 2.


    Everyone else that are hating his work,are just butt hurt and don't understand it cause they want to see their favorite character to be shown more and what they do when the main character isn't around.


    We are seeing them in the war fighting (and before that as well),why so upset, I will never understand.
     
         
    Last edited by ~WastelandSociety~; 01-16-2013 at 10:06 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    kisshi failed at making the characters relevant ... he only gave a fvck about the sauskes , narutos , kakashis & villains .....now at this point he's just trying to do it all at once .... & making them some how ... OP without us knowing that they had the potential .... I mean we knew they were going tp be strong sooner or later ...but you don't go making them strong in one episode .... # KISHI FAILED
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    read that i did not
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    if you didn't read, you don't need to post that you didn't. Nobody cares that you didn't read
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Well Kiba was looked at as a possible rival for Naruto but is absolute fodder now. Really all of them got kind of wasted to be honest. Lee as well.
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    couldn't agree more..
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Why you make that wall of text? Why?
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    I wish I could reply to everyone! I love discussing on that kind of level...not flaming for once.

    And @TrickyDD

    That's the point, Neji is dead and I don't feel ANYTHING. I do not miss him or anything, he could have been any character.
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    I read the whole thing but I dont agree whit you. I felt sad about Neji death, I dont really like naruhina but this is not a romance manga anyway... Stop crying about kishi fail this kishi fail that, he cant develop every ninja in narutoverse because there would be like 3000 chapter. I will agree on the sakura part, she is a complete fodder now but please.. : LET KISHI FINISH IS MANGA BEFORE SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT HIS WORK ! I understand ur opinion, but trust me they are going to fill all those (plothole) and character developement in the anime.
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Completely agree k11 all have unique abilities and so much potential this war arc was perfect to show what they're capable of but no most of them just fought zetsus and didn't show anything new its a shame
     
         

  25. #25
    Academy Student DanRock's Avatar
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    Re: What Kishi failed to do all along

    Quote Originally Posted by Homertime06 View Post
    I read the whole thing but I dont agree whit you. I felt sad about Neji death, I dont really like naruhina but this is not a romance manga anyway... Stop crying about kishi fail this kishi fail that, he cant develop every ninja in narutoverse because there would be like 3000 chapter. I will agree on the sakura part, she is a complete fodder now but please.. : LET KISHI FINISH IS MANGA BEFORE SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT HIS WORK ! I understand ur opinion, but trust me they are going to fill all those (plothole) and character developement in the anime.

    I'm not complaining, and I'm not saying it's a bad manga, but Naruto is far from perfect. So I wanted to know who feels with me.
    Also, I never said anything about plot holes, it's just normal for people to discuss a story.
     
         

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