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  1. #51
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    Most of what was said above is either irrelevant, or speculative theories which have no real base in the evidence (.e.g. Hirzen had lots of scrolls, he must have had super awesome techniques we didn't see, and he was too dumb to use against Oro). Really silly stuff here. I will say this about the databook though. It's not enough to say "the databook is cannon", and then to say "oh, if the databook is shown to be wrong, then we should interpret the databook in a way which is silly and counter intuitive, so we can maintain the myth the databook is credible". Your analysis of the Genjutsu rating for instance is ridiculous... if Oro and Itachi having a 5 doesn't mean anything, and only represents a vague conceptual ranking of their technical knowledge (but not what they could actually do) then it's meaningless to quote the databook isn't it. That's not a question by the way. If Itachi and Oro both having a 5 doesn't necessarily mean they are equal, then why the heck are Hirzen supporters invoking his databook scores like they mean something? The answer is that they want it both ways.
    See, this is what's frustrating.

    I try and give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they're being serious. I enjoy serious debates. I'm open to people's opinions and having my own changed. However, people such as yourself try and claim you're being genuine/serious in your discussions, but you go and pull crap like this. Purposely taking what I say out of context/completely ignoring the point and simply trolling to try and anger people. I've seen this far too many times on this forum, and it's why I was reluctant to even post to begin with.

    It should have been obvious enough in your opening post when all you tried to do was talk down about one and do nothing but hype the other instead of taking an unbiased look at the subject, but like I said, I tried to give the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to be drawn any more in to this than I already have been.

    I guess you've "done your job" in getting me to actually take the time to make a thoughtful response, so congratulations on that much. That'll be it for me in this thread, though.
     
         

  2. #52
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    all i am going to say is i will never read somthing that damn long unless im making money
     
         

  3. #53
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by 2big View Post
    all i am going to say is i will never read somthing that damn long unless im making money
    2big have you ever read a book. or even one page of a book
     
         

  4. #54
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    As for "knowing all jutsu", he clearly doesn't know how to perform them, and if he does he was really dumb not to use them in a fight to the death with Oro.
    I stopped reading after this, because this single sentence is so dumb it invalidates any sensible point you could possible have.
     
         

  5. #55
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Rerrando~ View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/094/13

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/121/3

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiruzen_Sarutobi

    Never try to down talk me until after I prove that I can't support my statements.
    By the way you're spelling his name wrong, it Hiruzen!
    Maybe you should read threads more carefully first, before acting like you've produced some new, unseen material which will stun us. The first of those links has been referenced repeatedly in this thread, and it's Iruka making a hearsay remark in a light hearted way, and the Hokage making a cute response. It's not a serious claim, anymore than most hyperbolic remarks in the manga are. It doesn't even say he is the strongest, it says he was "said to be", and the Hokage offers no meaningful confirmation of that. No more than if I get up to give a speech to introduce a professor to my class and say "he was said to be the leader in his field, let's hear it for Bob!". Worse, the remark is from Iruka, who is in no position to comment meaningfully on such matters. All this has been discussed at length in this thread. What I'll add to it is that Hirzen seemed helpless at stopping the 9 Tails from destroying the village, and had to be bailed out twice by Minato. In addition, he admits Oro is probably stronger than him, the same Oro who is much weaker than many other Shinobi we've seen.

    The 2nd link has also been discussed at length in this thread, from the opening post onwards. People have noted the reasons why this is not great evidence, and why it's not an unequivocal comment about how strong he was relative to others. Again, reading this thread first would have helped you.

    The last link is to Narutopedia. I am not even going to click on it, as that isn't evidence.

    Try reading the thread more seriously.
     
         
    Last edited by ItachiStyle; 01-25-2013 at 03:25 AM.

  6. #56
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    ...Try reading the thread more seriously.
    ROFL! Try writing HirUzen's name right.

    Ps. No one takes this thread seriously. You don't reply to anyone that lays pwnage upon you.
     
         

  7. #57
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    Maybe you should read threads more carefully first, before acting like you've produced some new, unseen material which will stun us. The first of those links has been referenced repeatedly in this thread, and it's Iruka making a hearsay remark in a light hearted way, and the Hokage making a cute response. It's not a serious claim, anymore than most hyperbolic remarks in the manga are. It doesn't even say he is the strongest, it says he was "said to be", and the Hokage offers no meaningful confirmation of that. No more than if I get up to give a speech to introduce a professor to my class and say "he was said to be the leader in his field, let's hear it for Bob!". Worse, the remark is from Iruka, who is in no position to comment meaningfully on such matters. All this has been discussed at length in this thread. What I'll add to it is that Hirzen seemed helpless at stopping the 9 Tails from destroying the village, and had to be bailed out twice by Minato. In addition, he admits Oro is probably stronger than him, the same Oro who is much weaker than many other Shinobi we've seen.

    The 2nd link has also been discussed at length in this thread, from the opening post onwards. People have noted the reasons why this is not great evidence, and why it's not a equivocal comment about how strong he was relative to others. Again, reading this thread first would have helped you.

    The last link is to Narutopedia. I am not even going to click on it, as that isn't evidence.

    Try reading the thread more seriously.
    If you weren't trying to be a douche read my first statement you'll see in parenthesis (early in Naruto this said by other ninja speaking about Hiruzen)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    ROFL! Try writing HirUzen's name right.

    Ps. No one takes this thread seriously. You don't reply to anyone that lays pwnage upon you.
    lol
     
         

  8. #58
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Rerrando~ View Post
    If you weren't trying to be a douche read my first statement you'll see in parenthesis (early in Naruto this said by other ninja speaking about Hiruzen)



    lol
    How I spell Hirzen really had no bearing on whether my argument is correct. Look, I did it again. Hirzen. I will continue to do it, partly because I see it is basically the English translation of his name. In Dragonball they did something similar with the characters names, where they converted names like Kuririn to Krillin (or when they thought people couldn't handle the pronounciation, they out and out changed it, like Tenshinhan to Tien). In English it's pronounced closer to Hirzen than it is Hiruzen, but then that's just my feeling from having lived in Japan for a year.

    Get back to the argument son.
     
         

  9. #59
    hokage ~Rerrando~'s Avatar
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    How I spell Hirzen really had no bearing on whether my argument is correct. Look, I did it again. Hirzen. I will continue to do it, partly because I see it is basically the English translation of his name. In Dragonball they did something similar with the characters names, where they converted names like Kuririn to Krillin (or when they thought people couldn't handle the pronounciation, they out and out changed it, like Tenshinhan to Tien). In English it's pronounced closer to Hirzen than it is Hiruzen, but then that's just my feeling from having lived in Japan for a year.

    Get back to the argument son.
    that had nothing to do with what i just said
     
         

  10. #60
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Rerrando~ View Post
    that had nothing to do with what i just said
    No, that was covered in the previous post, which I quoted in my reply. Maybe you should actually read it.
     
         

  11. #61
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    First this is not DBZ this is Naruto second if your going to criticize a character have the common courtesy to actually spell his name, reading your post and stumbling upon your horrible spelling of his name almost gave me cancer. here let me help you repeat after me Hiruzen, was that so hard?

    Plus why make a thread of a character that has been dead for years now?
    Whats the point?
     
         

  12. #62
    ☆NR#1 Stalker on NB☆ Aze's Avatar
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    If by Strength you mean "Jutsu" then yes Hiruzen wasnt the strongest.

    If by Strength you mean "Knowledge" then Hiruzen could have been atleast #3 Shinobi in entire narutoverse.

    If by Strength you mean the strength to "protect the village" at the cost of hes own life then that Spot is #1 Shared with Minato.

    If by Strength you mean being the master of "3 sannin" who later had many excelent diciples then that spot would be #1 in Naruto Universe.


    Hiruzen was a OP beast doesnt matter on which angle you look at it.

    Hes atleast in Top 5 of all deceased Shinobi.
     
         

  13. #63
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by Aze View Post
    If by Strength you mean "Jutsu" then yes Hiruzen wasnt the strongest.

    If by Strength you mean "Knowledge" then Hiruzen could have been atleast #3 Shinobi in entire narutoverse.

    If by Strength you mean the strength to "protect the village" at the cost of hes own life then that Spot is #1 Shared with Minato.

    If by Strength you mean being the master of "3 sannin" who later had many excelent diciples then that spot would be #1 in Naruto Universe.


    Hiruzen was a OP beast doesnt matter on which angle you look at it.

    Hes atleast in Top 5 of all deceased Shinobi.
    We're talking strongest. That includes jutsu and other abilities, but it's not about who had the most noble death, or who was the most well read, that's for sure.

    Though I'm not sure how you rank the knowledge or death or "commend" of HirUzen above Hashirama and Tobirama when you know so little about their lives and deaths. For all we know Hashirama had a death ten times as heroic as HirUzen. And as for people under his command, he had the frickin Tailed Beasts! Anyway, not relevant to the thread, I am just saying...
     
         

  14. #64
    hokage ~Rerrando~'s Avatar
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    We're talking strongest. That includes jutsu and other abilities, but it's not about who had the most noble death, or who was the most well read, that's for sure.

    Though I'm not sure how you rank the knowledge or death or "commend" of HirUzen above Hashirama and Tobirama when you know so little about their lives and deaths. For all we know Hashirama had a death ten times as heroic as HirUzen. And as for people under his command, he had the frickin Tailed Beasts! Anyway, not relevant to the thread, I am just saying...
    well had that been your intent on discussing this subject, you should have specified so.
    Is Hiruzen a noteable ninja, certainly. Was he very powerful in many terms, of course. But, he however isn't the strongest. Those spots are reserved for Rikudo, Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, and Izuna.
     
         

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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Rerrando~ View Post
    well had that been your intent on discussing this subject, you should have specified so.
    Is Hiruzen a noteable ninja, certainly. Was he very powerful in many terms, of course. But, he however isn't the strongest. Those spots are reserved for Rikudo, Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, and Izuna.
    Dude, this has been clarified multiple times in the thread, and is obvious from the OP anyway. You're just embarassing yourself at the point.
     
         

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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    Dude, this has been clarified multiple times in the thread, and is obvious from the OP anyway. You're just embarassing yourself at the point.
    O really. From what I've read you've only said that Hiruzen isn't worth mentioning, to which everyone has argued the opposite.

    So am I the one whose embarrassing himself, or is it you for making a fail thread not knowing what you're even arguing about.
     
         

  17. #67
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Rerrando, you're embarassing yourself by pushing this, and proving you didn't read the thread properly. If you had, you'd have seen me say these things:

    A sensible and consistent application of the evidence tells us Hashirama was clearly stronger than Hirzen. Now of course, anything could be wrong. For all we know there was a hidden leaf black ops ninja who we were never told about, who kept his true power hidden, and was actually stronger than the Sage of the 6 paths
    Then in response to someone telling me that the "better" Kage is not necessarily the "strongest" Kage, I wrote this:
    I don't care which is the "better" kage (whatever that means). Maybe reading the title of my thread would have cleared this up for you.
    When someone insisted that he was the best because he had protected the village of Konoha, or had shown a greater will of fire, etc, I made these responses:
    Which has nothing to do with whether he is the strongest Kage ever, which is what this thread is about.
    "Most Popular"? That has nothing to do with strength. I feel like you didn't even read this thread, or understand what it was about. It was not about his popularity, or legacy, or teaching skills, or grasp of military strategy. It was about how powerful he was... in battle.
    That's what the thread is about. I wasn't making a thread about who was the greater leader, or the more inspirational, or the best dressed. If you can't respond to the parameters of my thread, maybe you should stop posting in it.
    Again, as I said at the start of this post, and many other times, who cares? It's not relevant to the point of the thread.
    To paraphrase Madara; "You're going to beat me with your popularity? Power has nothing to do with popularity... it's an actual thing"
    Boy, you must be embarassed.

    Nor did you ever provide evidence for this claim:
    because he was trained by Hashirama and Tobirama and they admitted he surpassed them
    Hashirama and Tobirama never said any such thing. You just make stuff up to support your agenda. Put up or shut up.
     
         

  18. #68
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Hiruzen was a notable kages because he was the strongest of his generation.
     
         

  19. #69
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowthulhu45 View Post
    Hiruzen was a notable kages because he was the strongest of his generation.
    Based on feats, it's hard to picture Sarutobi as a more powerful shinobi than Onoki. Onoki can destroy islands, lift islands through the air over vast distances, halt meteors, atomise large areas, fly, summon giant stone golems, etc. I have a hard time seeing how Saru was stronger, given his established feats, etc. I also am dubious he was stronger than the 3rd Raikage, who looks pretty incredible. We know nothing about the 3rd Mizukage though. I guess we can believe he was stronger than the 3rd Kazekage, though he also had a pretty awesome ability of course.
     
         

  20. #70
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    typical of itachi fanboys to devalue all other characters they perceive as stronger. grow up buddy, hiruzen being the strongest has been canonically proven multiple times and your petty opinions won't change that
     
         

  21. #71
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    I have noticed an alarming number of errors on this board, and I'm going to start trying to eliminate them so that people stop citing them as evidence for their theories.

    The second one is the constant claim that the 3rd Hokage was "the god of shinobi", "the most powerful Hokage", the most powerful Kage of his time", etc, etc. This claim has virtually no evidence for it, and the evidence that Hirzen was the strongest Hokage is very bad (especially compared to Hashirama.

    Hashirama is clearly stronger than Hirzen ever was
    A sensible and consistent application of the evidence tells us Hashirama was clearly stronger than Hirzen. Now of course, anything could be wrong. For all we know there was a hidden leaf black ops ninja who we were never told about, who kept his true power hidden, and was actually stronger than the Sage of the 6 paths... but that's not how logic works. You don't imagine something that could be possible, you go off the evidence. Let's look at the evidence.

    Evidence for Hirzen
    - Some hyperbolic remarks in the manga, these being; a) that he was "said to be" the strongest ho/kage, and b) the claim he "was said to" "know all jutsu in the leaf". These 2 bits of evidence are extremely poor. The first remark is hyperbolic, and in the manga we've seen no end of remarks like this that were subsequently proven to be hyperbole. Remember how we were told Haku's jutsu had "never been stopped", or how "there's no stopping" Oro's soul transfer jutsu? You know, right before both were stopped. There are dozens of examples of this sort of hyperbole in the comic, which is why people don't go off hyperbole, they go off feats. Comic books have this problem all the time, which is why the 10 eyed man isn't actually the "most dangerous man in the world" as Batman comics hyperbolically state. Also consider the source here. This isn't a comment we're being given by the narrator, or by someone with credibility. These 2 remarks are from Iruka, some no name ninja's, and Oro is mocking that he's able to beat "you who were said to know all jutsu in the leaf". You act like the Sage of the 6 paths declared it to be so, and carved it on a mountain of truths.

    As for "knowing all jutsu", he clearly doesn't know how to perform them, and if he does he was really dumb not to use them in a fight to the death with Oro. Maybe he knows of them, but it's far too much of a stretch to grant him every jutsu in the leaf with no evidence off such a flimsy remark as "he was said to" know them all (the Manga is full of these sorts of patently false remarks, just like Haku’s jutsu being unstoppable). We’re even explicitly told later that affinity with all 5 elements is impossible without the rinnegan. So at best, this reputation remark is a reference to generic jutsu… and as someone else said, if you take away bloodline abilities and elemental jutsu, does that even leave much in the way of jutsu that matter? Not really.

    - Hirzen scored high in the databooks
    There is no reason for us to treat the databooks seriously. They’re not written by the author, and are full of obviously ridiculous material. Ameratsu is not “as hot as the sun”, and Naruto isn’t dragonball Z, where power levels mean something. For heaven’s sake, the databook gives Oro the same Genjutsu score as Itachi (a 5), which is patently ridiculous. Nobody should be invoking the databook as evidence of anything, no more than non-cannon star wars material, or a bunch of fanfic really. The scores in the databook do not represent characters actual abilities (Itachi for instance owns Oro every which way on Genjutsu, yet has an equal score… ridiculous).

    - Hirzen “beat” Oro and the 2 edo Hokages.
    Oro says very clearly that the 2 hokages are toying with him, and that’s evident from reading the manga fight (remember, the anime doesn’t count), where the hokage spend most of the fight standing around and letting Oro talk, and when Oro prompts them they do a few jutsu, but basically they just stand there. There’s very little reason to believe these guys are going all out, and given that a) they’re fighting in a confined area that massively disadvantages them, and b) what we see off Hashirama’s power later, it’s pretty clear we can’t take the fight at face value.

    I won’t use the invented logic of “Oro hadn’t perfected Edo Tensei”, we have no indication that means they weren’t at full strength, but they clearly aren’t being made to go all out, because Oro thought there was no way he could lose, partly because he didn’t know about the reaper death seal, which allowed Hirzen to take him by surprise and stop the fight before Oro got serious. Remember that your ability to control your own body is important to utilising your proper strength, the Hokage being mindless robots for Oro to control prevents them using the fighting genius they normally possess. Maybe the 2 Hokage would have gotten rid of the explosive tags if they could control their own movements, but Oro’s tags didn’t require them to because he knew that explosive tags couldn’t hurt them. Remember, sometimes the author has illogical things happen, then retrospectively explains them. Like when Madara “let” Onoki blast some of his armour off, just so we could see the 1st Hokage’s face.

    This brings me to the next point, which a lot of people have flagged. The author changes his mind. Maybe back in volume 17 Kishi thought of Hirzen as the strongest (or 2nd strongest) Hokage ever… but it’s very obvious at this point that view has been retconned. Now we don’t strictly need to use this logic, because the above arguments I addressed don’t really give much support to the idea Hirzen is that great, but certainly it’s fair for Hirzen fans to feel like once upon a time Kishi intended for Hirzen to be one of the best Shinobi of all time. What that shouldn’t blind them to is that there’s pretty much no good evidence left to suggest he was, as we’ve gotten more and more evidence of stronger and stronger shinobi as the manga went (some who died a long time ago, some who are alive right now). I also feel like old age is a really crap excuse for Hirzen… sure, I can buy he was weaker, but Onoki (who is far older) is doing stuff that makes Hirzen look pitiful, such as carrying islands and meteors, atomising large areas, summoning giant stone golems bigger than Hirzen’s earth wall, etc. Based off feats, Hirzen probably isn’t in the top 20 shinobi, and even that’s charitable. I’m sure he had a kage level strength, much like Tsunade who gets unfairly criticized, and we should remember that Itachi and Minato show us power doesn’t require scale or flashiness. You can have relatively small and simple techniques and be awesome. But we can’t just look at some hyperbole and a fight where nobody was going all out (under special conditions) and then say “yeh, Hirzen MUST have been the best… some randoms said so”.

    Evidence for Hashirama
    There’s so much, I feel like there’s not a lot of point getting into it all. We’re told, balls out, that Hashi beat EMS Madara and the 9 tails fox. Then we see a double page picture of the fight, which seems to tell us that “yes, it was just him v.s the 2 of them with no help” (something we also see in that animated scene of their fight, though I think we shouldn’t give anime any weight really), and then we see Madara resurrected and are shown he’s even more awesome than we thought, and he apparently still respects and fears Hashirama (something evidenced from flashbacks too, where he’s apparently fought the dude multiple times, and lost, and can’t handle it when people mention his name; “never mention THAT shinobi’s name in my presence again!”… this is right before Madara effortlessly schools Mu and Onoki at the same time, remembering this is Mu and Onoki who have done stuff much more impressive than Hirzen, and Madara only had the EMS at this point, and it's subsequently revealed Madara wasn't even trying in this fight, and when Onoki asks him why he never tried against him and Muu, Madara just asks him if he'd really try against a child, because apparently one of the most powerful Kages ever, along with his master, are children compared to EMS Madara... the same EMS Madara who Hashirama beat WITH the 9 Tailed Fox).

    Even without the Rinnegan, or Hashi’s DNA, Madara has techniques like perfect Susanoo, against which the 5 kages are helpless. And Hashirama apparently beat him with it… are you kidding? There’s no way Hirzen could have done any of this… and please remember, Madara wasn’t trying before then in his fight against the kage, so all this “Garra and Naruto nearly beat him” stuff is ridiculous… Madara wasn’t even trying then. Then look at the scale of the techniques Madara uses, which were apparently all Hashirama’s- creating and controlling whole forests (with pollen that makes you fall asleep), healing yourself without seals, having Tsunade like strength, and summoning giant wood dragons? Oh, and Hashi can use his seemingly bottomless chakra to create tonnes of wood clones, which nobody except Madara can differentiate from him, and which seem to have comparable powers to the user themselves. Yeh, good luck smelling out the real Hashirama when the air around you is filled with pollen that puts you to sleep when you inhale it. Did I mention Hashi could, at his peak, summon all the tailed beasts (remember, he controlled all the beasts at one point). Remember, every technique Yamato can do is like a pale shadow of Hashi, and Yamato is himself a pretty impressive Shinobi who summons small mountains and lakes effortlessly… again, it seems absurd Hirzen could have touched someone like this, whose hype is even better, and more decisive than Hirzens. In the 3rds case we’ve got some no name ninja’s saying “he was said” to be X good, while for Hashi we’ve got guys with cred like Madara and Kabuto saying “he was the only one who could beat me”, or “his power was so incredible, it was thought a fairy tale”. This is a guy whose blood is apparently so potent, it can do stuff like let ShiSui’s eye work once a day, instead of once per 10 years… that’s a 3650 fold increase in effectiveness… that’s how powerful a mere portion of his chakra is… indeed, it seems to be able to let Tobi use his MS a ridiculous, abusive number of times, despite the fact that he should have gone blind by this point given his overuse of MS.

    All the good evidence tells us we should side with Hashi, while to support Hirzen we have to cherry pick the evidence we like, while closing our eyes to the much better evidence that counteracts it, and ignoring basic principles of logic.
    TL;DR
    What are you talking about bro hiruzen was awesome, you're just jealous you'll never be hokage or have a pet monkey king
     
         

  22. #72
    Lost Artist veggetta13's Avatar
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    "shapeless, formless, be
    water my friend."
     

    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Quote Originally Posted by elitekakashi View Post
    what an original thread.
    agreed
     
         
    Last edited by veggetta13; 01-27-2013 at 08:53 PM.

  23. #73
    Second Six Paths BigBlade Master's Avatar
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    OnePiece>Bleach>Naruto
     

    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    I agree that Hiruzen was far from being the strongest Hokage.
     
         

  24. #74
    ☆NR#1 Stalker on NB☆ Aze's Avatar
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    Revz
     

    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Upcoming chapters will show , that Hiruzen is far from hype.
     
         

  25. #75
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    The databooks are trash
     

    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    I look forward to seeing it, but I'm feeling pretty confident he's going to come out of this ranked the worst of the 4 Hokage who just got revived.
     
         

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