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  1. #76
    Fanboy Killer Interfectorem's Avatar
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    I was prepared to kill ItachiStyle, but reading through this thread it's clear he has been completely gangbanged by facts.

    Thread failed.
     
         

  2. #77
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Oh look, it's the guy who didn't even read people's responses to Oro's arms being unable to use jutsu before he replied to the thread.
     
         

  3. #78
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Agreed
     
         

  4. #79
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    The funny thing is, I wrote this thread not long before the Hokage were revived, so I had no reason to think my argument was going to be backed up so quickly. We're now at the point though that it's very clear not even Kishi cares about the vague hype Hiruzen once got, and the longer these guys are revived, the more clear that is going to be. The poor Hiruzen fanbase are going to be just devastated.
     
         

  5. #80
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    There is one problem in this. Madara is not the same one that battled Hashi. he now has Hashi's powers.
     
         

  6. #81
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    this jus seemed like an nagry hashi fanboy rather than someone exposing hiruzen as a weakling. what you should have brought up is his extreme lack of feats and notable offensive power. but instead of that you brought up hashirama, who has nothing to do with hiruzen being a notable kage
     
         

  7. #82
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    I read it. I liked it. It's so true. Hiruzen feels like a fodder to me. Hashirama is a beast. What I really wanna see is can Hashirama beat himself ( both Madara and Tobi have his DNA ) + Rinnegan Madara + Tobi + Juubi. And I think he has a chance.
     
         

  8. #83
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    As the title of Hokage goes hand in hand, so the title of GOD OF SHINOBI. At the start, it was Hashirama, but after his death, it was Hiruzen. There has to be something about Hiruzen so that even Tobirama didn't get the title.
    It was rumored that Hashirama is strong that he defeated Madara. But it was said that Hiruzen was the strongest in his prime. And that couldn't just be a rumor since we saw him fighting with the first and the second and sealing them right away at his old age. That fact is undeniable.
    He was said to be mastered all the jutsus of the leaf. Its true that he used some of the jutsus against the Hokages but there has to be some strategies and knowledge about the jutsus to be used or not since he was fighting with the strongest hokages of their respective generations and not some lame villains.
    You said that Iruka mentioned about the third being the strongest. It's same like you said that third is not the strongest. Iruka do not know how much powerful was the first, the second. He lived in third's rule. Similarly you made this thread after knowing how the other kages were and were not and made a point about Hiruzen. That can be expected from the knowledge you have on Hiruzen. Also you followed the databook initially and made the point. Even the databooks, made, didn't know the so called "power levels" of the Hokages.

    About comparing Onoki with Hiruzen, that's totally wrong to say. Onoki had those jutsus and that unique element to some how nullify those strong attacks. But Hiruzen faced Hashirama's giant forest attack as well as Tobirama's high speed water gun jutsus in an isolated area and with not much effort he dodged them. He also took hits from the Hokages while dodging the attacks whereas Madara was just standing there when Onoki was handling those attacks. Also Onoki lost hope many a times during the fight even for Madara's Giant forest jutsu. What can you say about Onoki's back problems? That tiny sh*t got a hit from 2nd Mizukage's water bullet. Thanks to Gaara. Most importantly, Onoki had so many shinobis to give a hand just to fight Madara whereas Hiruzen had to handle Hashirama, Tobirama as well as Orochimaru in that closed space and know what he sealed two of them and died.

    Most of the techniques used by Madara in the war were Rinnegan based and not Sharingan based. Even Naruto had the chance of destroying Madara completely with the Rasen shuriken at the first attempt. And he could have got sealed since he was weak against physical attacks. Just think, Edo Madara is weak against the physical attacks then how weak he would be in the mortal form. Just taking on the attacks head on doesn't mean they are strong. A mortal Madara with such weakness would be a peace of cake just for the Leaf Shinobis.
    You talked about Hashirama vs Madara fights as if Madara was fighting alone. He had Nine-tails under control of him. This is self explanatory that Madara is chump against Hashirama if he fought alone. Nine-tails was the important one here.
    You said Madara can handle the five Kages with his perfect Susano'o. Not at all true. You see most of the time Madara used Rinnegan to fight against the Kages. For a mortal guy to fight for so long against the kages is not possible. Madara himself got so physical many hits from the Kages. Dodging them could have become a big problem for Mortal Madara. And till then to activate the Perfect Susano'o, his chakra would have been drained off early to activate it. There's no point that Hiruzen could have sustained those attacks alone for so long.
    Even without the Rinnegan, or Hashi’s DNA, Madara has techniques like perfect Susanoo, against which the 5 kages are helpless. And Hashirama apparently beat him with it… are you kidding? There’s no way Hirzen could have done any of this… and please remember, Madara wasn’t trying before then in his fight against the kage, so all this “Garra and Naruto nearly beat him” stuff is ridiculous… Madara wasn’t even trying then. Then look at the scale of the techniques Madara uses, which were apparently all Hashirama’s- creating and controlling whole forests (with pollen that makes you fall asleep),
    What can you say about this? Madara had the upper hand just because of Hashirama's jutsu. There not even more than three things he used in the war which were purely Uchiha techniques. They were the great fireball, Susano'o and Perfect Susano'o. Everything else was borrowed.
    One more point, Hashirama, Tobirama were Senjus the one related to the SO6P. There's no doubt they were strong. Also Tsunade, not pure but she is strong. Hiruzen was from other clan (Sarutobi) which was known as a powerful clan too in their specialities and there's no doubt Hiruzen was the best in using the Sarutobi clan jutsus while fighting Hashi, Tobirama and Orochimaru.
    If you think Hiruzen to be such weak then, there was no need of the dead Hokages to be resurrected to fight Hiruzen just to destroy the village. Orochimaru could have done that by himself. But he took precautions against Hiruzen and still failed. That must be enough to prove your theory wrong.

    Conclusion : I can only say that, Hiruzen from the time he was the Hokage till his death was the strongest during his generation. The future generations surpasses the previous is a living fact. And that we have seen in the war as well as we face it in the real world as well. You must have felt that too around you.
     
         

  9. #84
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Can't stand people claiming "myth busted" with such weak evidence..

    Nice try but nothing's busted just yet.
     
         

  10. #85
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    Conclusion : I can only say that, Hiruzen from the time he was the Hokage till his death was the strongest during his generation. The future generations surpasses the previous is a living fact. And that we have seen in the war as well as we face it in the real world as well. You must have felt that too around you.
    Conclusion: you did not read the thread properly. If you had, you wouldn't be making so many remarks that had been addressed in depth.

    "It was said" he was the strongest... as a piece of hearsay by frickin Iruka, a fodder nin who is unlikely to have seen any of the Kage fight, in circustamces that don't lead us to believe he was speaking 100% seriously (introducing him to some school kids). Some evidence. All the vague remarks about how strong Hiruzen was run into the same problem... no reason we should take them seriously in the context of other things we've been told (especially things that flat out contradict it, partly because Kishi still hadn't thought of them yet).

    Hashi is relevant as the juxtaposition of Hashi with Hiruzen highlights the problems with Hiruzen's earlier rep. It's also important because alot of Hiruzen fans try to link the two, saying "you didn't see Hashi, but you're sure he's good because of his rep!", when in fact it's more complex. Hashi has a clear rep with some strong feats, while Hiruzen has a vague rep from bad sources with virtually no feats.

    In chapter 620 the Hiruzen pantsing continues, with the 3rd now catching his breath after Hashi powers up, and unable to break the Edo Tensei like Tobirama can. His non-feat of fighting the previous Edo Hokage is also taken from him. He just got bumped to 4th most powerful Hokage at best, behind Hashi, Tobirama and Minato.

    The Hiruzen fanboys must be devastated.
     
         
    Last edited by Caliburn; 02-13-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  11. #86
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/12

    According to Tobirama when they were first summoned by the edo Tensei fighting against hiruzen they werent at their prime .
     
         

  12. #87
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Yes, that was just pointed out...
     
         

  13. #88
    Molten Dragon AGoodBoy's Avatar
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    Passed my chunnin exams! I
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Agreed. Anyone who doubts hiruzen isn't the weakest hokage is fooling themselves. The only one weaker might be tsunadi, but with her healing factor, who knows...
     
         

  14. #89
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    Re: Myth busting thread #2 - Hirzen is not "the strongest" Hokage, or even a notable

    Hiruzen has no feats. he's all massive hype by iruka. As far as we know, he told the kids that so they'd feel safe. What has he done apart from " He beat 1st, 2nd, and oro!!! "... That's not even a good arguement. Oro clearly doesn't know the 1st or 2nd's true abilities. Hiruzen basically fought oro, oro with water jutsu, and oro with wood jutsu and basically just killed himself during that fight. So you're telling me, when he goes against a strong opponent, he'll reaper their hands and get killed all the time?

    Hiruzen < hashi, tobirama, minato, A, 2nd miz, muu, 3rd Rai, 4th kaze. Can you even list any kage he'd be able to beat?
    Can you list any reputable feats? Even the 4th has better feats and all he's shown u is FTG. Hiruzen's biggest strong point is his agility and enma.

    If he knew all the leafs jutsus, or even a decent amount, he would have won that oro fight easily.
     
         

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