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  1. #51
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lol99 View Post
    he could have deactivated his MS after he thought the fight was over and then he activated it again when he saw oonoki was still in a fighting mood
    Come on. Its clear madara went easy on him and when he tried to act tough did madara go ms.
    Anyway, this topic is subjective. However i disagree with the thread
     
         

  2. #52
    Don't front. OnPoint's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    [COLOR="#008000"]
    Here I disagree... I believe yata mirror changes shape and size and according to the databook, elements DEPENDING on the attack coming..
    You believe, because neither the manga or databook have ever stated and shown that the Yata Mirror can morph into a complete 360 degree shield. Size perhaps, but shape, never.

    that theory isn't baseless as it has been portrayed in the manga


    Here you see how yatta mirror is, a flat shield, a bit bigger than Itachi, but still smaller than susanno itself..


    Sasuke then throws explosive kunai to cause and explosion

    You can no see the shield has grown, as the head of susanno is no longer higher in the air

    specifically talking about this


    You also should note the sfx showing the mirror was shrinking after the attack..


    Next feat of this? pretty obvious

    If you don't see it


    You clearly see it extended again, covering more in the back of itachi, which is not how it originally looked, considering its flat


    I can show you more.. but put one and one together.. itachi found these items.. and they have no real physical form.... when he found them I highly doubt they were the size fit for a susanno.. the sword was probably the size of a a katana and the shield the size of a normal shield.
    Also, Yata Mirror doesn't have the feats of tanking the untankable, which is the level Jinton is currently operating at in this manga. In all honesty, i'm not really interested in Yata's hype becomes it has been subject to paradoxical concepts on numerous occasions. Kabutowari was said to be able to smash all defences, and i'm sure the Yata Mirror is labelled under 'defence'. Perfect Susano'o has been said to have the power to smash everything in the universe, so clearly there has been a tendency on Kishimoto's part to overhype certain objects in this manga. Chou Oodama Rasenagan can supposedly hollow out mountains also. There can't be an all powerful defence if there exists an all powerful offence.




    Therefore, feats are the key. I've seen Jinton effortlessly consume and destroy 25 Susano'os - haven't seen Yata do anything on this level. Only explosive tags. It's not even confirmed if the mirror can reflect Kekkei Tōta, which came way after the databook entry publication. And that's only the linear form of Dust Release i'm referring to. The cubic form just doesn't fail and cannot be tanked. Only S/T Ninjutsu and Gakidou can overcome it.
     
         
    Last edited by OnPoint; 01-18-2013 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #53
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    A few things :

    1. I've watched the Anime and read the manga the Jinton blast doesn't take time to charge.

    2. Chiyo was unaware of MS so its safe to assume that other villegers didn't have that much info on the Uchihas beyond 3 Tomoe but the fact of the matter is Onnoki was familiar with both the MS as well as Susanoo its highest tech.

    Madara went easy meaning he didn't use the PSS which as he said no one has survived after witnessing it. Only Hashirama overstepped it.

    3. Muu is more or less the same age as Madara.

    4. There are questions about Tobi's Kamui, so this might help.

    Tobi and the Long Ranged Kamui :


    Tobi about to save Sasuke with it :



    Tobi saved sasuke with it :








    Tobi using Long Ranged Kamui+WS to clean up the Fodders :







    Just as Kakashi was able to use the Short Ranged Kamui i.e. when he got out of Kamui world, Obito can also use the Long Ranged Kamui its as simple as that.
     
         
    Last edited by Minator93; 01-18-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  4. #54
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Therefore, feats are the key. I've seen Jinton effortlessly consume and destroy 25 Susano'os - haven't seen Yata do anything on this level. Only explosive tags. It's not even confirmed if the mirror can reflect Kekkei Tōta, which came way after the databook entry publication. And that's only the linear form of Dust Release i'm referring to. The cubic form just doesn't fail and cannot be tanked. Only S/T Ninjutsu and Gakidou can over

    And how will jinton destroy something that doesn't even have a real physical form? jinton dematerializes atoms etc... yata mirror is made of a spiritual liquid like substance.. it's like saying onooki can jinton the rds death god


    You say it hasn't shown feats of changing size or shape in the manga, yet I just showed you many..


    Here, yata mirror has extended its shape and is now covering even in the back of susanno's head...
    That IS shape manipulation... Ive also shown you it can grow in height and width...

    it shouldn't even be an argument.. disregarding hype and stating only feats count is madness... Yata mirror was put on a pedestal that states it can reflect any attack, even that of a gods.. hyerbole yes, but the statement stems from some superior level of defence...
    Zetsu also states it can defend against any attack... the mirror obviously isn't something that can be explained using normal physics.... it has endowed in it all elements.. meaning all elments capable of cancelling out the jinton and reflecting it
     
         

  5. #55
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    And how will jinton destroy something that doesn't even have a real physical form? jinton dematerializes atoms etc... yata mirror is made of a spiritual liquid like substance.. it's like saying onooki can jinton the rds death god

    You say it hasn't shown feats of changing size or shape in the manga, yet I just showed you many..


    Here, yata mirror has extended its shape and is now covering even in the back of susanno's head...
    That IS shape manipulation... Ive also shown you it can grow in height and width...

    it shouldn't even be an argument.. disregarding hype and stating only feats count is madness... Yata mirror was put on a pedestal that states it can reflect any attack, even that of a gods.. hyerbole yes, but the statement stems from some superior level of defence...
    Zetsu also states it can defend against any attack... the mirror obviously isn't something that can be explained using normal physics.... it has endowed in it all elements.. meaning all elments capable of cancelling out the jinton and reflecting it
    Good shit with Atoms and molecules but Yata is only 90-180 as opposed to Jinton's 360. So Itachi and the rest of Susanoo will become dust from the back!

    Also Jinton's almost instantaneous and Yata takes time.
     
         

  6. #56
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Good shit with Atoms and molecules but Yata is only 90-180 as opposed to Jinton's 360. So Itachi and the rest of Susanoo will become dust from the back!
    I just shoed yata isn't only 180, reread, it has grown in size and extended shape depending on the attack coming
     
         

  7. #57
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    [COLOR="#008000"]
    And how will jinton destroy something that doesn't even have a real physical form? jinton dematerializes atoms etc... yata mirror is made of a spiritual liquid like substance.. it's like saying onooki can jinton the rds death god
    Yata may survive, everything else will be destroyed completely.


    You say it hasn't shown feats of changing size or shape in the manga, yet I just showed you many..


    Here, yata mirror has extended its shape and is now covering even in the back of susanno's head...
    That IS shape manipulation... Ive also shown you it can grow in height and width...
    Yeah, I said it has no feats of covering 360 degrees, which is completely true.

    it shouldn't even be an argument.. disregarding hype and stating only feats count is madness... Yata mirror was put on a pedestal that states it can reflect any attack, even that of a gods.. hyerbole yes, but the statement stems from some superior level of defence...
    Zetsu also states it can defend against any attack... the mirror obviously isn't something that can be explained using normal physics.... it has endowed in it all elements.. meaning all elments capable of cancelling out the jinton and reflecting it
    So what? By using hype only, Perfect Susano'o will destroy it, because it can smash all things in the universe. Kabutowari will as it can destroy all defences. It's clear that hype is unreliable in this sense. It's obvious that all these objects have been overhyped/exaggerated. Obvious is incredibly obvious. Even more so when Kishimoto made these statements regarding the sword and the blade long after he'd hyped Yata Mirror. Hell, if anything was contradicted, it was that shield. So now i'm looking at feats to judge how reliable the hype is, and Yata Mirror's feats can't compare with the extermination of 25 Susano'os. And you refer to the databook when I already told you that this was at a time when Kekkei Tōta had not been introduced. It's not even confirmed if the Mirror can reflect Dust Release (Linear form).
     
         

  8. #58
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Yata may survive, everything else will be destroyed completely.




    Yeah, I said it has no feats of covering 360 degrees, which is completely true.



    So what? By using hype only, Perfect Susano'o will destroy it, because it can smash all things in the universe. Kabutowari will as it can destroy all defences. It's clear that hype is unreliable in this sense. It's obvious that all these objects have been overhyped/exaggerated. Obvious is incredibly obvious. Even more so when Kishimoto made these statements regarding the sword and the blade long after he'd hyped Yata Mirror. Hell, if anything was contradicted, it was that shield. So now i'm looking at feats to judge how reliable the hype is, and Yata Mirror's feats can't compare with the extermination of 25 Susano'os. And you refer to the databook when I already told you that this was at a time when Kekkei Tōta had not been introduced. It's not even confirmed if the Mirror can reflect Dust Release (Linear form).
    That's the oldest trick in his book, If nothing works pull that crappy databook page which has hyped Itachi's Susanoo and he also believes that you need Tsukuyomi+Amaterasu to get Susanoo when its been proved that Double MS is needed. He can't even Jutify Madara's Susanoo or Sasuke's by that Logic or maybe he thinks Sasuke has Tsukuyomi.

    Enjoy this page :

     
         

  9. #59
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    I always like the duel between Owarij and Noddy, its fun to watch.
    I don't want to intervene but ill like to state a couple of things.

    We have seen jinton destroy susano that is cannon its a fact. However whether onoki or mu can produce a jinton big enough to fully engulf a full armoured susano i dont know. If they do it will surely require a considerable amount of chakra. I agree with arcane angel that it either produce a jinton big enough to engulf a full armoured susano, only the mirror will remain.

    However if either produce jinton on a smaller scale, lets say something like this [1]. That size jinton obviously isn't bigger than a full susano and neither is it bigger than the yata mirror. If this size jinton hit the surface of the yata mirror like [1] I believe nothing will happen to the yata mirror for various reasons.

    Firstly is that there is a misconception that it blocks only ninjutsu and people have put ninjutsu into the 5 nature and not kg. Now im not saying the yata mirror can produce kg technique's as ill explain later. In the DB dictionary it says the mirror can deflect [1].

    Now given what has been said about the mirror from the db and manga but also hype of having the tag legendary but also oro searching for it states that its special. We know of oro's personality, he will not invest his time into something he doesn't believe will make him stronger. Now ill give two technique's from the manga that have the tag 'mirror' in them which have shown the ability to mirror or deflect an opponents technique.

    Yagura's mirror technique did something that i believe the yata mirror could possible do. here [1, 2] As we saw it deflected naruto's rasengan and bee's knife.

    Another technique is pain's mirror technique




    If you note, both are mirror techniques in the sense that they can replicate the opponents technique use it against them therefore its void. Now its possible that the yata mirror gaining the tag mirror but also every said about it in the manga and DB, its very possible that it could do what they two techniques can do. Obviously im speculating however its possible
     
         

  10. #60
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    I just shoed yata isn't only 180, reread, it has grown in size and extended shape depending on the attack coming
    Well I said 90 to 180 meaning I've taken the extended size into account.
     
         

  11. #61
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    AND Muu is above yours fav character,
    I mean really, Minato fans shouldn't create threads about Uchiha's and they all know why
     
         

  12. #62
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    you really think he would stand a chance against Itachi??or even madara izuna obito or sasuke or even shishui???i dont think so bruh Uchiha Inza
     
         

  13. #63
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    when its been proved that Double MS
    Oh please, show me where that has been proven, and i'll quit reading naruto

    Yeah, I said it has no feats of covering 360 degrees, which is completely true.

    But it does have feats changing shape depending on the attak, even going to the BACK of susanno... One it can cover itachi and his back, The argument is over.. and it can.. yata mirror will reflect it as the manga and databook portrays that all ninjutsu will fail against the shield..

    Jinton DISINTEGRATES Objects to molecular objects.. it CANNOT do that to yata mirror as both weapons don't even have a real physical form.. it has not been explained what the weapons are or how they came into existence but zetsu said they were Supernatural.. You can't even argue that jinton can destroy such a thing, because as I said, it's like arguing jinton will disintegrate the Reaper of rds..

    And what's your point that kkt wasn't introduced yet? it does matter.. it's based on elements just like kekke genkai and once again the databook states yata mirror an endow itself with any elements, plural to counter the coming attack

    you're just pulling at straws by arguing that things can break the mirror.. a mirror that can't be broken...
     
         
    Last edited by Owarij; 01-18-2013 at 08:03 PM.

  14. #64
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    i doubt muu could beat shisui or itachi in a fight since they just have too look at him and his invisibility is not instant it takes like 2.5 or 3 seconds which if not mistaken is enough for shisui or itachi. muu cannot become invisible faster than itachi or shisui can use their techs. with all due respect to muu fans but if he becomes visible to use jinton cant itachi just use tsukuyomi?

    mu cannot beat sasuke because in order to use jinton he has to become visible then sasuke can just use arrows of susanoo to finish him, and if he stays on the ground sasuke can cover the battlefield with amaterasu having invisibility doesn't mean much against susanoo.

    obito and madara are obvious

    muu> all uchiha except sasuke, itachi, madara, shisui, obito (because itachi and shisui are OHK's and susanoo will make muu have to become visible to use jinton which will make him vulnerable against sasuke's arrows, amaterasu and itachi's tsukuyomi)
     
         

  15. #65
    Second Six Paths BigBlade Master's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shanee View Post
    I agree. He is definitely in the top 5 best ninja of all time.
    He's not at all


    Sharingan can see him. He can't beat Madara, Shisui, Izuna, Obito, Sasuke or Itachi. But he can beat all the other Uchiha.
     
         
    Last edited by BigBlade Master; 01-18-2013 at 09:54 PM.

  16. #66
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Oh please, show me where that has been proven, and i'll quit reading naruto


    We'll miss you Owari



    Quote Originally Posted by the dark king View Post
    i doubt muu could beat shisui or itachi in a fight since they just have too look at him and his invisibility is not instant it takes like 2.5 or 3 seconds which if not mistaken is enough for shisui or itachi. muu cannot become invisible faster than itachi or shisui can use their techs. with all due respect to muu fans but if he becomes visible to use jinton cant itachi just use tsukuyomi?

    mu cannot beat sasuke because in order to use jinton he has to become visible then sasuke can just use arrows of susanoo to finish him, and if he stays on the ground sasuke can cover the battlefield with amaterasu having invisibility doesn't mean much against susanoo.

    obito and madara are obvious

    muu> all uchiha except sasuke, itachi, madara, shisui, obito (because itachi and shisui are OHK's and susanoo will make muu have to become visible to use jinton which will make him vulnerable against sasuke's arrows, amaterasu and itachi's tsukuyomi)
    Madara, Obito >=Naruto >> Entire Shinobi world

    Muu >> Rest of the Uchihas

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaInza View Post
    you really think he would stand a chance against Itachi??or even madara izuna obito or sasuke or even shishui???i dont think so bruh Uchiha Inza
    He beats both of them by a long Shot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Rob View Post
    AND Muu is above yours fav character,
    I mean really, Minato fans shouldn't create threads about Uchiha's and they all know why
    LOL Muu isn't above Madara! Also Minato ****s on every Uchiha with the exception of Madara and Current Obito

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlade Master View Post
    He's not at all

    Sharingan can see him. He can't beat Madara, Shisui, Izuna, Obito, Sasuke or Itachi. But he can beat all the other Uchiha.
    He can beat Shisui, Izuna, Sasuke and Itachi.
     
         

  17. #67
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    We'll miss you Owari

    Knew you'd come with that.. its literally the only thing you could come with

    sorry, but if that's your proof... manga characters do not have "unlimited" knowledge...Sasuke just got his mangekyou and knows nothing of it ... kishi isn't magically writing through him and feeding all the knowledge in the world...that is simply sasuke's opinion.. noone sat down with him and gave him a history lesson on mangekyou and how they work.. he came up with that himself.. Itachi said that susanno was the third ability he got on the day he unlocked amaterasu/tsukyomi

    the databook said specifically those two ms abilities are needed..


    The japanese myth, susanno, amaterasu, tsukyomi are all brothers

    Madara made a plan to cast tsukyomi on the moon, obito is to revive him..

    meaning for sure he has - susanno and tsukyomi.. we haven't seen amaterasu yet


    ALL the odds stack against sasuke's uninformed opinion.. which is similar to deidara calling sasuke's ability raikiri...
    once again manga characters aren't infallible
     
         

  18. #68
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by minator93 View Post
    maybe he thinks Sasuke has Tsukuyomi.
    Sasuke has Susanoo. Susanoo requires both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Therefore, Sasuke has both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
     
         

  19. #69
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    fight starts sasuke amateraus muu is invisible burning to death thee end
     
         

  20. #70
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    Knew you'd come with that.. its literally the only thing you could come with

    sorry, but if that's your proof... manga characters do not have "unlimited" knowledge...Sasuke just got his mangekyou and knows nothing of it ... kishi isn't magically writing through him and feeding all the knowledge in the world...that is simply sasuke's opinion.. noone sat down with him and gave him a history lesson on mangekyou and how they work.. he came up with that himself.. Itachi said that susanno was the third ability he got on the day he unlocked amaterasu/tsukyomi

    the databook said specifically those two ms abilities are needed..


    The japanese myth, susanno, amaterasu, tsukyomi are all brothers

    Madara made a plan to cast tsukyomi on the moon, obito is to revive him..

    meaning for sure he has - susanno and tsukyomi.. we haven't seen amaterasu yet


    ALL the odds stack against sasuke's uninformed opinion.. which is similar to deidara calling sasuke's ability raikiri...
    once again manga characters aren't infallible
    As I had posted earlier, Madara said you need both eyes to attain their full potential rather than you need to awoken Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Also can you show me where Sasuke has actually used Tsukuyomi [with proper name as Itachi does]

    Madara hasn't shown Amaterasu because he doesn't have it. I mean do you actually think that he'll pull the PSS to show his true strength and never use Amaterasu in between??

    Also Saske has read the Rikudo's stone tablet in the secrete Uchiha hideout and Itachi had given him plenty of history lessons so he knows a lot about MS and Susanoo if not entire history
     
         

  21. #71
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by unorthodox View Post
    fight starts sasuke amateraus muu is invisible burning to death thee end
    Muu Splits and remains invisible then using his sensor abilities confirms its the real Sasuke. After that uses Jinton and Sasuke is reduces to dust with his Susanoo!
     
         

  22. #72
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Madara hasn't shown Amaterasu because he doesn't have it. I mean do you actually think that he'll pull the PSS to show his true strength and never use Amaterasu in between??


    Urm pss is his strongest ability, as tskyomi is itachi's, and amaterasu's is sasuke's...

    madara hasn't shown ANY of ms abilties... so I don't see your argument.. he has amaterasu and basically told the world and obito he has tsukyomi..


    Sasuke used tsukyomi on bee.. but most times when itachi uses tsukyomi he doesn't shout out TSUKYOMI.....

    Sasuke changes his 3tomoe to mangekyou and casts a genjutsu on the incoming bee.. if you're arguing he doesnt have it, why would changing to mangekyou be neccesary? putting on ms doesn't increase your genjutsu power.... afterwards he holds the opposite eye to the one that casts amaterasu. The SAME way Itachi does..

    Honestly, it's quite obvious
     
         

  23. #73
    Death by Hugs! Cowthulhu45's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Muu is invisible, and undetectable. Ten bucks says he could fight fairly in DBZ

    Of course, Ten bucks is often wrong.
     
         

  24. #74
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Muu is above majority of top Uchihas!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post


    Urm pss is his strongest ability, as tskyomi is itachi's, and amaterasu's is sasuke's...

    madara hasn't shown ANY of ms abilties... so I don't see your argument.. he has amaterasu and basically told the world and obito he has tsukyomi..


    Sasuke used tsukyomi on bee.. but most times when itachi uses tsukyomi he doesn't shout out TSUKYOMI.....

    Sasuke changes his 3tomoe to mangekyou and casts a genjutsu on the incoming bee.. if you're arguing he doesnt have it, why would changing to mangekyou be neccesary? putting on ms doesn't increase your genjutsu power.... afterwards he holds the opposite eye to the one that casts amaterasu. The SAME way Itachi does..

    Honestly, it's quite obvious
    I am not denying that he doesn't have a MS Genjutsu but its not perticularly Tsukuyomi



    Here we see both brothers using their MS genjutsus and Itachi used "Tsukuyomi" and Sasuke used "Genjutsu Sharingan"

    You can see the effect that the genjutsu cast on eachother is different Effect on Sasuke is Definitely Itachi's Tsukuyomi but Effect on Itachi by Sasuke's MS genjutsu if difference. If amaterasu is the same when both brothers use it then why their Tsukuyomi is different??

    Tobi controlled Kurama with a genjutsu and you need MS to achieve that feat but we know for a fact that Tobi doesn't posses Tsukuyomi but he has another MS genjutsu that's ablr to do it and his genjutsu is even powerful than Itachi's because he can even control a perfect Jinchuriki [Yagura] with it
     
         
    Last edited by Minator93; 01-19-2013 at 06:46 AM.

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