View Poll Results: How do you rate this tournament?

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  • 1 - Very Bad

    1 2.44%
  • 2 - Bad

    0 0%
  • 3 - Decent

    5 12.20%
  • 4 - Good

    19 46.34%
  • 5 - Near Perfect

    16 39.02%
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  1. #26
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    I hope next time people who haven't mastered base 5 can participate as well.....bored of just watching others fight cuz I haven't completed my training yet :shrug:
     
         

  2. #27
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    The thing is that the three vote thing wasn't really a rule. It was never made into a rule, just something that was necessary for certain battles. It literally only came up because the fights toward the end were just so close that Scorps was unsure of which direction to judge it, so whereas normally his judgement was enough, he felt as though he should get other opinions. It wasn't really like Scorps decided that his method wasn't working and wanted to switch things up, ya know? It was really just for those specific fights as the tourney wound down. And while it may make things easier, it would also make for a bit more strenuous of a grading process if from the very start the tourney won't progress until Scorps, Vincent, and I (or whoever else) all grade every fight. Taking into consideration that it only takes one mod to grade a sensei test or a most special bio tests, it really isn't necessary to have three mods for every fight from the start of the tourney. In my opinion it would just end up slowing down the tourney. Now maybe having three mods assigned to the tourney who would grade together when necessary may be an idea. But applying this to every battle just seems unnecessary.
     
         

  3. #28
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Solf J. Kimblee View Post
    Near perfect

    1. Add the three judge option
    2. Add the loser bracket again
    3. Keep the discussion thread
    4. Let the member chose what bio they would like prize for
    pretty much agree with what Solf said right here, with everything i mean


    what i think is important about loser bracket that you might get unlucky and get someone like Lili in the first round, just sayin that with Looser bracket it is better for everyone

    and personally would change to 2 days to reply to fight 3 is a lot and 1 is only a little bit imo
     
         

  4. #29
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Why not create a new sub-forum? Will be way easier to follow fights and to go back in to previous fights. By the way I couldn't participate because of the Basic 5 rule lol. I'm probably not powerful enough to be any competition, but it would've been fun to try.

    So yeah, why not create a sub-forum. Since I can predict another will be popping up.

    Also on the multiple-mod story: I say on do multiple-mods from quarter finals and on wards.
     
         

  5. #30
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    I enjoyed this tournament. And the discussion thread raised a lot of good topics. But it also had some pretty petty ones. As a whole, people started reporting/sending to be checked the most trivial and futile topics, ones that could be easily be dealt with through vm. Besides, simply ignoring some minor problems and continue the fight is a option too.

    But yeah. Highlights that I can think of right now:

    1. I absolutely loved Reborn's use of a Genjutsu in his fight with Yusuke (Or something like that). The on liner was great and the way you manipulated the genjutsu was suberb and really pleasurable to read. It is quite morbid, thus it might not be as pleasurable to others. I'm just a bit twisted in the head xD

    2. So far, I've really enjoyed all my fights. I didn't know a couple of the people I faced, or, at least, it was the first time I actually took time to notice them, but I'm quite impressed. To begin with Cobalt, one of the best fights I've fought. Your custom element, Francium, is really well made. It has great characteristics that makes it stand out from other metal ce and the way you created it's jutsus is quite astonishing

    3. Scaze's fight, while shorter than Cobalt's, was quite enjoyable too. I've said it before, but your custom animal, the Batoidea, is incredibly well made and unique. It's what I always hoped to make with a summon. The techniques are so detailed and so creative, I just had to praise them. And sorry about the no-offensive jutsus restriction I put on myself xD you held your own regardless.

    4. Better was a real surprise to me. Don't want to downgrade, saying I expected little of you, it's simply coming from my own ignorance. Your style is great. I like that you started by mastering canon jutsus to max, and you're beast with them. Don't know if it was choice or you were forced to, but it made an impression on me nonetheless. Great rper.

    5. Typhoon. You wack. Nah, just kidding. Our fight was small, but I liked our taijutsu encounter. Haven't used Devious Porcupine in a while xD
    Thanks. :3 I enjoyed the fight too, even though I had more of a love-hate relationship with it. Genjutsu D:

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraan View Post
    I agree. The three judging part made me wonder why it wasn't done from the beginning barring the inactivity.



    I concur. It shouldn't take that long to come up with a move. It takes longer typing it out than it does to actually Come up with it. .
    And it's a fact that some people try to use the time limit as a means of controlling the fight. I really think the reply time should be dropped down to a day. Because otherwise you get fights with only two moves it it and its a pain to judge things like that.


    Also didn't like the fact that there was no losers bracket simply because well you lost. Should have given it your all. And if it wasn't enough you aren't guaranteed a retry. . Shouldn't have messed up in the first place.
    , only for battle freaks like you. xD
    Yeah I agree, 4 days is way too much, with that much time it makes stalling a highly viable, and possibly productive option. Though One day is a bit too short, perhaps roughly 36-60 hours time limit would be better, especially since most of the people who actively replied, replied within this time period anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie.. View Post
    Why not create a new sub-forum? Will be way easier to follow fights and to go back in to previous fights. By the way I couldn't participate because of the Basic 5 rule lol. I'm probably not powerful enough to be any competition, but it would've been fun to try.

    So yeah, why not create a sub-forum. Since I can predict another will be popping up.

    Also on the multiple-mod story: I say on do multiple-mods from quarter finals and on wards.
    I like the idea of a sub-forum, makes things easier to go through, and easier to navigate through past fights. It'd probably make the battle test section cleaner too, it was pretty much flooded with tourney fights before.

    Overall I enjoyed the tourney, but short battles and stuff were a bit of a downer for me. But that can't necessarily be helped.
     
         
    Last edited by Scaze; 01-18-2013 at 09:44 PM.

  6. #31
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku.. View Post
    The thing is that the three vote thing wasn't really a rule. It was never made into a rule, just something that was necessary for certain battles. It literally only came up because the fights toward the end were just so close that Scorps was unsure of which direction to judge it, so whereas normally his judgement was enough, he felt as though he should get other opinions. It wasn't really like Scorps decided that his method wasn't working and wanted to switch things up, ya know? It was really just for those specific fights as the tourney wound down. And while it may make things easier, it would also make for a bit more strenuous of a grading process if from the very start the tourney won't progress until Scorps, Vincent, and I (or whoever else) all grade every fight. Taking into consideration that it only takes one mod to grade a sensei test or a most special bio tests, it really isn't necessary to have three mods for every fight from the start of the tourney. In my opinion it would just end up slowing down the tourney. Now maybe having three mods assigned to the tourney who would grade together when necessary may be an idea. But applying this to every battle just seems unnecessary.
    Well yea that is true. Well the three judgement should be whenever one of the judges have a hard time grading said fight during the tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by Migualon J.J. View Post
    pretty much agree with what Solf said right here, with everything i mean


    what i think is important about loser bracket that you might get unlucky and get someone like Lili in the first round, just sayin that with Looser bracket it is better for everyone

    and personally would change to 2 days to reply to fight 3 is a lot and 1 is only a little bit imo
    Did I read this right? You agree with me

    I say two days also

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie.. View Post
    Why not create a new sub-forum? Will be way easier to follow fights and to go back in to previous fights. By the way I couldn't participate because of the Basic 5 rule lol. I'm probably not powerful enough to be any competition, but it would've been fun to try.

    So yeah, why not create a sub-forum. Since I can predict another will be popping up.

    Also on the multiple-mod story: I say on do multiple-mods from quarter finals and on wards.
    Sub forum would be great but that all depends on the mods and admins.
     
         

  7. #32
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    One thing that would really add to the tournament would be Scorps in a bikini with a large sign marking the rounds... Those tatas need to be let loose more often, Scorseh
    Quote Originally Posted by -Cobalt- View Post
    Thank you Lili, I appreciate those words and thank you for them. I'll go to hell, if our fight wasn't the best in my RP career. I hope we encounter each other again. Your mushrooms are extremely well worded and the abilities are amazing. Thank you for the amazing fight we had.



    I second this motion
    As do I
    _________

    On topic, this was my first tournament and although I only had 2 actual fights, I felt the experience was more or less enjoyable. I didn't find anything really wrong with the tournament. I was judged fairly and learned a lot.

    As for the double elimination loser bracket thing, I felt that the only reason it may have been left out was because of the amount of people we had. I agree, it puts a higher emphasis on the win with single elimination. You don't get that second chance to make up for mistakes or in case you were inactive and were unable to come on.

    I also have a suggestion for tournaments in the future. Idk if this has already occured, I've only RPed for about a year and haven't seen all the tournies in the history but possibly theme based tournys. Tournaments where there is a theme, that tests one's profficiency in certian areas or shows off the strongest members of a specific skill set. Here we had all out but what about having Taijutsu based tourny's or canon tournaments, 5 elements only, etc. Just throwing that out there
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Solf J. Kimblee View Post
    Near perfect

    1. Add the three judge option
    2. Add the loser bracket again
    3. Keep the discussion thread
    4. Let the member chose what bio they would like prize for
    Agreed with Solf.

    Specially on the loser brackets back on and letting people choose what bio they like the prizes for.
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    A very wonderfully organized tournament *claps* We should try this again soon!
    Although I do believe that a double elimination tournament would be more fitting when having multiple winners "Second, third, forth, etc..". A sudden death seems more appropriate for when only one winner must be decided. This is because the second best and third best might be out of the game earlier than less skilled participants, which gives chance and luck a bigger say in the matter.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    It was very well organized, the only thing I find that was rather dull is the fact that the time to reply to a fight was a bit to long. I think that 3 day's (72 hours from post) should be the max limit for a tournament.. any longer makes it so the opponent can sit and wait. this is something that I realized in this tournament. I will see an opponent online and they will not reply to the tournament despite being online for hours.. I feel that if the reply time was shorter it will move things along faster allowing for fights to finish or at least give more material to help aid in the Judging of battles.
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpent View Post
    It was very well organized, the only thing I find that was rather dull is the fact that the time to reply to a fight was a bit to long. I think that 3 day's (72 hours from post) should be the max limit for a tournament.. any longer makes it so the opponent can sit and wait. this is something that I realized in this tournament. I will see an opponent online and they will not reply to the tournament despite being online for hours.. I feel that if the reply time was shorter it will move things along faster allowing for fights to finish or at least give more material to help aid in the Judging of battles.
    If reply times are shortened, then a loser bracket could be added also. Since it's shortened, loser bracket won't drag tournament.
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie.. View Post
    If reply times are shortened, then a loser bracket could be added also. Since it's shortened, loser bracket won't drag tournament.
    Shortening reply times wouldn't shorten the tourney. If reply times are shortened then the tourney would still only advance once a week. Shorter reply times would just make certain that the fights will have more than four or five posts in it, well ideally anyway.

    Honestly, I don't think that a loser bracket should be added for such a tournament. I mean it's a grand tourney. It's supposed to be competitive and you're getting some pretty nice prizes even if you don't make it. So not only does it drag the tourney like we saw last time, but I personally think that single elimination is more appropriate for such a huge tourney. Smaller tourneys like within villages? Sure, a loser bracket can be acceptable. But a tourney like this? I'm not so sure.
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    But yeah. Highlights that I can think of right now:

    1. I absolutely loved Reborn's use of a Genjutsu in his fight with Yusuke (Or something like that). The on liner was great and the way you manipulated the genjutsu was suberb and really pleasurable to read. It is quite morbid, thus it might not be as pleasurable to others. I'm just a bit twisted in the head xD
    I kind of got nightmares about the illusion happening to me in real life. It was extremely detailed.

    OT : A loser's bracket would be cool. The tournament is kind of ending and it only started about, a month ago? But having no loser's bracket is alright, I suppose. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be facing the same opponent twice.
     
         
    Last edited by Yūsuke; 01-19-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  14. #39
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Yūsuke View Post
    I kind of got nightmares about the illusion happening to me in real life. It was extremely detailed.

    OT : A loser's bracket would be cool. The tournament is kind of ending and it only started about, a month ago? But having no loser's bracket is alright, I suppose. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be facing the same opponent twice.
    Really O_o *that ish worked in rl and they said genjutsu couldn't be done :zonder: ku-kuu kuuu*
    ______

    Why wouldn't you want to fight the same opponent twice? I mean if you fought them once and then ended up losing and meeting them again, you have a should be more prepared for them for next time. I mean if they used the same strategy...unless it was a one move pwn it shouldn't be too bad. The judges give their reviews so you know what to do better the next time around.

    The addition of the loser bracket gives somewhat a sense of security imo. In the beginning of the tournament, you don't have to worry so much about losing and then not being able to proceed and get a chance later (like this one). I mean you don't want to lose at all but in the event you do you're still safe. Come time for the loser brackets to begin for you, then you have to worry lol.
     
         

  15. #40
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Considering the 3rd place winner of the last tournament came from the loser's bracket (Mcrazor) I dont see the problem with a losers bracket at all

    Also Mcrazor ended up winning against the person who had put him out in the earlier round (Dante) when he met him again from the losers bracket
     
         

  16. #41
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    Considering the 3rd place winner of the last tournament came from the loser's bracket (Mcrazor) I dont see the problem with a losers bracket at all

    Also Mcrazor ended up winning against the person who had put him out in the earlier round (Dante) when he met him again from the losers bracket
    Good point. Everyone deserves a second chance. (y)
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    And people will get their second chance next tournament.. Adding the loser brackets will not only add 2 extra rounds (2 weeks) but also have 2 times the amount of fights that will need to be graded.. that add's a lot of time. I think loser brackets are fine when you have a smaller tournaments but in a large one like this it's to much
     
         

  18. #43
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    >_> I didn't get to compete ( basic 5 not complete) but it seemed well organized and fun! <_<
     
         

  19. #44
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku.. View Post
    The thing is that the three vote thing wasn't really a rule. It was never made into a rule, just something that was necessary for certain battles. It literally only came up because the fights toward the end were just so close that Scorps was unsure of which direction to judge it, so whereas normally his judgement was enough, he felt as though he should get other opinions. It wasn't really like Scorps decided that his method wasn't working and wanted to switch things up, ya know? It was really just for those specific fights as the tourney wound down. And while it may make things easier, it would also make for a bit more strenuous of a grading process if from the very start the tourney won't progress until Scorps, Vincent, and I (or whoever else) all grade every fight. Taking into consideration that it only takes one mod to grade a sensei test or a most special bio tests, it really isn't necessary to have three mods for every fight from the start of the tourney. In my opinion it would just end up slowing down the tourney. Now maybe having three mods assigned to the tourney who would grade together when necessary may be an idea. But applying this to every battle just seems unnecessary.
    I agree and understand where youre coming from Riku. I was gonna post this earlier, but I kinda see people critquing more than just simple stuff so I shall explain a few things I noticed and why I agreed to having 3 votes. I don't agree it needs to be from the biggining but I think it should be for those at least up to the 3rd round or if necessary for the 1st or 2nd if needed.

    One thing that needed to be worked on is judging consistency such as: using cheap moves, abusing techniques and wording to get a cheap win, Custom Element spamming etc. Comparing last tournament to this one, I'd say that this tournament was a bit smoother because of the number of people and no loser bracket, but also because of the thread where you were able to call out your opponents moves. But in the end there is no real way to win a tournament match. The style of judging does not stay the same nor the variables you'd expect

    Example 1

    Lets say for example Attacker "A" is using high ranking attacks from the start and is having his opponent defend each turn. His opponent cant seem to dominate the flow of the battle but is able to "survive" turn by turn by just doing enough to live. The attacker would be declared the winner in this case.

    Example 2

    Lets say for example Attacker "B" is using high ranked techniques from the start and is having his opponent defend each turn. His opponent cant seem to dominate the flow of the battle but is able to "survive" turn by turn by using less powerful techniques or cannons only to defend from Customs etc. Yet, even though surviving the defender still cant dominate the flow of the battle.

    The one defending would be called the winner and not the one who dominated the battle because he adverted powerful techniques with cannon or weaker ones, showing superior "skill/strategy". See the comparison between 1 & 2?

    Example 3

    Lets say Attacker "C" isn't looking to go for the instant kill, or unnecessary spamming from the start of the battle. They start off with a slow way of keeping their opponent defending and controlling the flow of the battle. The attacker is using low ranking techniques to control the battle, while the defender is using high ranking techniques each turn and is still unable to dominate.

    I would see that the defender be crowed the winner, because he looked like he "wanted it more." Than the person who was doing less to dominate.


    These examples are in no way to take shots at you Scorps, or to undermine your ability especially the last example, but I merely wanted to explain why I think more than one viewpoint is kind of key in some of these rulings instead of one person. I just felt as though it was hard to grasp the concept of:

    "What am I fighting for, and how should I try to win?"

    "Dominate.....show skill.....defend with ease....go for the instant killl and be seen as a spammer......" Theres never a real way to win.
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagato.. View Post
    I agree and understand where youre coming from Riku. I was gonna post this earlier, but I kinda see people critquing more than just simple stuff so I shall explain a few things I noticed and why I agreed to having 3 votes. I don't agree it needs to be from the biggining but I think it should be for those at least up to the 3rd round or if necessary for the 1st or 2nd if needed.

    One thing that needed to be worked on is judging consistency such as: using cheap moves, abusing techniques and wording to get a cheap win, Custom Element spamming etc. Comparing last tournament to this one, I'd say that this tournament was a bit smoother because of the number of people and no loser bracket, but also because of the thread where you were able to call out your opponents moves. But in the end there is no real way to win a tournament match. The style of judging does not stay the same nor the variables you'd expect

    Example 1

    Lets say for example Attacker "A" is using high ranking attacks from the start and is having his opponent defend each turn. His opponent cant seem to dominate the flow of the battle but is able to "survive" turn by turn by just doing enough to live. The attacker would be declared the winner in this case.

    Example 2

    Lets say for example Attacker "B" is using high ranked techniques from the start and is having his opponent defend each turn. His opponent cant seem to dominate the flow of the battle but is able to "survive" turn by turn by using less powerful techniques or cannons only to defend from Customs etc. Yet, even though surviving the defender still cant dominate the flow of the battle.

    The one defending would be called the winner and not the one who dominated the battle because he adverted powerful techniques with cannon or weaker ones, showing superior "skill/strategy". See the comparison between 1 & 2?

    Example 3

    Lets say Attacker "C" isn't looking to go for the instant kill, or unnecessary spamming from the start of the battle. They start off with a slow way of keeping their opponent defending and controlling the flow of the battle. The attacker is using low ranking techniques to control the battle, while the defender is using high ranking techniques each turn and is still unable to dominate.

    I would see that the defender be crowed the winner, because he looked like he "wanted it more." Than the person who was doing less to dominate.


    These examples are in no way to take shots at you Scorps, or to undermine your ability especially the last example, but I merely wanted to explain why I think more than one viewpoint is kind of key in some of these rulings instead of one person. I just felt as though it was hard to grasp the concept of:

    "What am I fighting for, and how should I try to win?"

    "Dominate.....show skill.....defend with ease....go for the instant killl and be seen as a spammer......" Theres never a real way to win.
    I mentioned this before, but I like the elaboration.
    I support it 100%
     
         

  21. #46
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Nicely organized, a lot of decent battles along with some amazing ones, I give it a 5.
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagato.. View Post
    I agree and understand where youre coming from Riku. I was gonna post this earlier, but I kinda see people critquing more than just simple stuff so I shall explain a few things I noticed and why I agreed to having 3 votes. I don't agree it needs to be from the biggining but I think it should be for those at least up to the 3rd round or if necessary for the 1st or 2nd if needed.

    One thing that needed to be worked on is judging consistency such as: using cheap moves, abusing techniques and wording to get a cheap win, Custom Element spamming etc. Comparing last tournament to this one, I'd say that this tournament was a bit smoother because of the number of people and no loser bracket, but also because of the thread where you were able to call out your opponents moves. But in the end there is no real way to win a tournament match. The style of judging does not stay the same nor the variables you'd expect

    Example 1

    Lets say for example Attacker "A" is using high ranking attacks from the start and is having his opponent defend each turn. His opponent cant seem to dominate the flow of the battle but is able to "survive" turn by turn by just doing enough to live. The attacker would be declared the winner in this case.

    Example 2

    Lets say for example Attacker "B" is using high ranked techniques from the start and is having his opponent defend each turn. His opponent cant seem to dominate the flow of the battle but is able to "survive" turn by turn by using less powerful techniques or cannons only to defend from Customs etc. Yet, even though surviving the defender still cant dominate the flow of the battle.

    The one defending would be called the winner and not the one who dominated the battle because he adverted powerful techniques with cannon or weaker ones, showing superior "skill/strategy". See the comparison between 1 & 2?

    Example 3

    Lets say Attacker "C" isn't looking to go for the instant kill, or unnecessary spamming from the start of the battle. They start off with a slow way of keeping their opponent defending and controlling the flow of the battle. The attacker is using low ranking techniques to control the battle, while the defender is using high ranking techniques each turn and is still unable to dominate.

    I would see that the defender be crowed the winner, because he looked like he "wanted it more." Than the person who was doing less to dominate.


    These examples are in no way to take shots at you Scorps, or to undermine your ability especially the last example, but I merely wanted to explain why I think more than one viewpoint is kind of key in some of these rulings instead of one person. I just felt as though it was hard to grasp the concept of:

    "What am I fighting for, and how should I try to win?"

    "Dominate.....show skill.....defend with ease....go for the instant killl and be seen as a spammer......" Theres never a real way to win.
    I certainly see where you're coming from, and if necessary I'll elaborate a lot more, but for now I'll just put a bit of my thoughts on what you're missing here as far as judging consistency goes and why exactly those discrepancies are present. Consistency with opinions is pretty hard to achieve. And the judging does indeed need to be a little different than for sensei or bio tests simply because there are customs involved, which pretty much throws a monkey wrench into our judging merely because not all mods have the same opinion on customs, which is the reason why being consistent here is a lot harder than being consistent there. I'll just respond to each of your examples with a bit of insight on the reason why the results can be different from mod to mod. Because frankly, when a battle ends undefined you're then asking a mod to judge who the better RPer for that fight is. Which isn't an easy question in close fights and is completely dependent on what happened in that specific fight.

    Example 1 and 2

    See, here you have to define what you mean by high-ranked attacks. There's an extreme difference between high-ranked attacks and OPed customs. I would say that any member in this tournament is capable of defending and countering powerful techniques with the basic five elements, ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. We saw Typhon stop most of Lili's techniques relying mainly on cannon or otherwise simple Hyuuga Clan techniques. However Typhon did not hold the upper hand while Lili just barely did, and I'd be pretty hard pressed to call any of the customs that she used, while incredibly useful, Oped. So in the case that one member is using powerful customs and holds the upper hand for all of the battle, then there is in fact a chance that they will be crowned the winner. But then what happens when the dominating member is using OPed techniques? And what makes an OP technique? Another obscure question that we can't just slap a criteria on. If one member is using grossly powerful customs that wouldn't be approved today and made it under the radar back in 2009, then yeah, I'd probably give it to the person who's using less and still getting by. Why? If you're using grossly OPed techniques in every move and don't fail to kill your opponent, then to me it's clear who the better RPer is.

    Example 3

    I don't see what you're getting at here because this is probably the easiest call that you can give me, and part of the reason why three judges aren't necessary. You're giving me an attacker who's using low-ranked customs and cannon techniques and is dominating a battle against a defender using high-ranked customs? To me the attacker would clearly win. I think that any mod would make that call; they just showed who the better RPer was by a long shot. I don't know if you saw this example in the battle (if so then please link me), but I think that you must have misunderstood the call because I don't see how the defender could be declared the winner there for "wanting it more."

    My point with responding to each of your examples? Everything is relative. Scorps can easily come to this thread right now and disagree with my take on everything neither of us will be wrong. I disagreed with Scorps and Xylon on the fight between McRazor and Typhon. Every mod generally has the same idea in mind of what makes a good RPer and how we should impartially and fairly judge a battle, but when it comes to judging top-tier RPers against each other in a battle? Inconsistencies are just... inevitable really. Each RPer has there own set of customs and to be honest we grade fights like this based on too many factors to really just say: Ok, you as a mod need to do this this and this when you're judging. We can't reprimand people for using things in their arsenal, but we also can't ignore if one member is using OPed techniques and the other is using intricate strategies and is still surviving. So really, there can't fully be any such thing as "judging consistency" when you have mods who each have their own different take. When a battle has no defined winner what's required from us is no more than an opinion. But an opinion that has multiple factors in which is all relative to how that particular battle was played out. So while we will aim to be more consistent with what we're going for (remember that this is really only the second successful tourney like this, happening back to back, so we as mods need to get a bit on the same page with this a well admittedly) it's... difficult lol. Ya know? I mean, I was practically going back and forth with myself throughout this entire post just now. And I did the exact same in every fight that I was asked to judge.

    Now back to having three judges. As far as I can tell, three judges in every fight might even bring more variables to the table, don't you think? Wouldn't you have even more questions on judging consistency if Scorps and I judge the exact same fight and what Scorps thinks is an easy call in one RPers favor I say is an easy call in the other's? Like I said, I think that there should be three mods assigned, each of them grading a certain group of battles per round, but then when a battle is extremely close, the judges convene to discuss that fight. That seems like a logical method to me, but I dunno. I'd like to hear other mods opinions on this before I continue discussing this.
     
         
    Last edited by Riku..; 01-19-2013 at 09:02 PM.

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku.. View Post
    I certainly see where you're coming from, and if necessary I'll elaborate a lot more, but for now I'll just put a bit of my thoughts on what you're missing here as far as judging consistency goes and why exactly those discrepancies are present. Consistency with opinions is pretty hard to achieve. And the judging does indeed need to be a little different than for sensei or bio tests simply because there are customs involved, which pretty much throws a monkey wrench into our judging merely because not all mods have the same opinion on customs, which is the reason why being consistent here is a lot harder than being consistent there. I'll just respond to each of your examples with a bit of insight on the reason why the results can be different from mod to mod. Because frankly, when a battle ends undefined you're then asking a mod to judge who the better RPer for that fight is. Which isn't an easy question in close fights and is completely dependent on what happened in that specific fight.

    Example 1 and 2

    See, here you have to define what you mean by high-ranked attacks. There's an extreme difference between high-ranked attacks and OPed customs. I would say that any member in this tournament is capable of defending and countering powerful techniques with the basic five elements, ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. We saw Typhon stop most of Lili's techniques relying mainly on cannon or otherwise simple Hyuuga Clan techniques. However Typhon did not hold the upper hand while Lili just barely did, and I'd be pretty hard pressed to call any of the customs that she used, while incredibly useful, Oped. So in the case that one member is using powerful customs and holds the upper hand for all of the battle, then there is in fact a chance that they will be crowned the winner. But then what happens when the dominating member is using OPed techniques? And what makes an OP technique? Another obscure question that we can't just slap a criteria on. If one member is using grossly powerful customs that wouldn't be approved today and made it under the radar back in 2009, then yeah, I'd probably give it to the person who's using less and still getting by. Why? If you're using grossly OPed techniques in every move and don't fail to kill your opponent, then to me it's clear who the better RPer is.

    Example 3

    I don't see what you're getting at here because this is probably the easiest call that you can give me, and part of the reason why three judges aren't necessary. You're giving me an attacker who's using low-ranked customs and cannon techniques and is dominating a battle against a defender using high-ranked customs? To me the attacker would clearly win. I think that any mod would make that call; they just showed who the better RPer was by a long shot. I don't know if you saw this example in the battle (if so then please link me), but I think that you must have misunderstood the call because I don't see how the defender could be declared the winner there for "wanting it more."

    My point with responding to each of your examples? Everything is relative. Scorps can easily come to this thread right now and disagree with my take on everything neither of us will be wrong. I disagreed with Scorps and Xylon on the fight between McRazor and Typhon. Every mod generally has the same idea in mind of what makes a good RPer and how we should impartially and fairly judge a battle, but when it comes to judging top-tier RPers against each other in a battle? Inconsistencies are just... inevitable really. Each RPer has there own set of customs and to be honest we grade fights like this based on too many factors to really just say: Ok, you as a mod need to do this this and this when you're judging. We can't reprimand people for using things in their arsenal, but we also can't ignore if one member is using OPed techniques and the other is using intricate strategies and is still surviving. So really, there can't fully be any such thing as "judging consistency" when you have mods who each have their own different take. When a battle has no defined winner what's required from us is no more than an opinion. But an opinion that has multiple factors in which is all relative to how that particular battle was played out. So while we will aim to be more consistent with what we're going for (remember that this is really only the second successful tourney like this, happening back to back, so we as mods need to get a bit on the same page with this a well admittedly) it's... difficult lol. Ya know? I mean, I was practically going back and forth with myself throughout this entire post just now. And I did the exact same in every fight that I was asked to judge.

    Now back to having three judges. As far as I can tell, three judges in every fight might even bring more variables to the table, don't you think? Wouldn't you have even more questions on judging consistency if Scorps and I judge the exact same fight and what Scorps thinks is an easy call in one RPers favor I say is an easy call in the other's? Like I said, I think that there should be three mods assigned, each of them grading a certain group of battles per round, but then when a battle is extremely close, the judges convene to discuss that fight. That seems like a logical method to me, but I dunno. I'd like to hear other mods opinions on this before I continue discussing this
    .
    For the first bold i think that for all intensive purposes that if your able to defend customs with only canon techniques and the match is more or less evenly matched or one person just barely had the upperhand that the canon user should win. I think we can all agree it's easier to defend a custom with another custom. And isnt it just better to award more "points" if you will, to the contestant that made it even with just canon? As for the op techniques, your right theres no criteria for op techniques, its all opinion. However, canon techniques were made by the creator of naruto. Who are we to say which of HIS techniques are op? Its his manga right? Customs are thought of by people with little to no experience in writting a succesful manga and approved by people with that same level of experience who THINK that it is possible in the context of the rules of naruto. Customs clearly have more potential to be Op'd then canon techniques and thus if one contestant is using high ranked customs throughout the battle they should be "punished" for it (or atleast that should be taken into heavy consideration when deciding the winner) if their opponent has only or mostly used canon techniques. In short, if its mainly canon vs custom and its pretty much even or the custom user has a slight advantage then the canon user should have won by a longshot. This is simply the punishment needed for custom spammers.

    @The second bold I like this idea, but who is to say what a close battle is? Its open to interpretation. As you said, one mod may think its an easy call and the other may not
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    I disagree. There's a lot of prejudice against custom techniques vs cannon techniques. Techniques are techniques, and all have a counter. There is no technique without a proper counter, at least not in this RP, custom or cannon. Getting one-shotted or defeated by a technique is not because the technique is invincible, it's just that it was used in the right time and the right circumstances. Showing skills with customs is exactly the same as showing skill with cannon. Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them.

    So, in the example you showed, if a member is using high ranked techniques, and his opponent is just surviving, the winner shouldn't be decided by cannon or custom, but by how long could the match continue that way. If you're using a pretty renewable technique to drive your opponent to the corner, while your opponent is using more chakra and taking more damage, then, in the end, he will run out of chakra and be defeated. But if you're launching bazookas and your opponent is countering it with a pretty renewable or more durable technique, then the attacker who controlled the flow of the fight all along will eventually run out and be defeated.
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku.. View Post
    I certainly see where you're coming from, and if necessary I'll elaborate a lot more, but for now I'll just put a bit of my thoughts on what you're missing here as far as judging consistency goes and why exactly those discrepancies are present. Consistency with opinions is pretty hard to achieve. And the judging does indeed need to be a little different than for sensei or bio tests simply because there are customs involved, which pretty much throws a monkey wrench into our judging merely because not all mods have the same opinion on customs, which is the reason why being consistent here is a lot harder than being consistent there. I'll just respond to each of your examples with a bit of insight on the reason why the results can be different from mod to mod. Because frankly, when a battle ends undefined you're then asking a mod to judge who the better RPer for that fight is. Which isn't an easy question in close fights and is completely dependent on what happened in that specific fight.

    Example 1 and 2

    See, here you have to define what you mean by high-ranked attacks. There's an extreme difference between high-ranked attacks and OPed customs. I would say that any member in this tournament is capable of defending and countering powerful techniques with the basic five elements, ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. We saw Typhon stop most of Lili's techniques relying mainly on cannon or otherwise simple Hyuuga Clan techniques. However Typhon did not hold the upper hand while Lili just barely did, and I'd be pretty hard pressed to call any of the customs that she used, while incredibly useful, Oped. So in the case that one member is using powerful customs and holds the upper hand for all of the battle, then there is in fact a chance that they will be crowned the winner. But then what happens when the dominating member is using OPed techniques? And what makes an OP technique? Another obscure question that we can't just slap a criteria on. If one member is using grossly powerful customs that wouldn't be approved today and made it under the radar back in 2009, then yeah, I'd probably give it to the person who's using less and still getting by. Why? If you're using grossly OPed techniques in every move and don't fail to kill your opponent, then to me it's clear who the better RPer is.

    Example 3

    I don't see what you're getting at here because this is probably the easiest call that you can give me, and part of the reason why three judges aren't necessary. You're giving me an attacker who's using low-ranked customs and cannon techniques and is dominating a battle against a defender using high-ranked customs? To me the attacker would clearly win. I think that any mod would make that call; they just showed who the better RPer was by a long shot. I don't know if you saw this example in the battle (if so then please link me), but I think that you must have misunderstood the call because I don't see how the defender could be declared the winner there for "wanting it more."

    My point with responding to each of your examples? Everything is relative. Scorps can easily come to this thread right now and disagree with my take on everything neither of us will be wrong. I disagreed with Scorps and Xylon on the fight between McRazor and Typhon. Every mod generally has the same idea in mind of what makes a good RPer and how we should impartially and fairly judge a battle, but when it comes to judging top-tier RPers against each other in a battle? Inconsistencies are just... inevitable really. Each RPer has there own set of customs and to be honest we grade fights like this based on too many factors to really just say: Ok, you as a mod need to do this this and this when you're judging. We can't reprimand people for using things in their arsenal, but we also can't ignore if one member is using OPed techniques and the other is using intricate strategies and is still surviving. So really, there can't fully be any such thing as "judging consistency" when you have mods who each have their own different take. When a battle has no defined winner what's required from us is no more than an opinion. But an opinion that has multiple factors in which is all relative to how that particular battle was played out. So while we will aim to be more consistent with what we're going for (remember that this is really only the second successful tourney like this, happening back to back, so we as mods need to get a bit on the same page with this a well admittedly) it's... difficult lol. Ya know? I mean, I was practically going back and forth with myself throughout this entire post just now. And I did the exact same in every fight that I was asked to judge.

    Now back to having three judges. As far as I can tell, three judges in every fight might even bring more variables to the table, don't you think? Wouldn't you have even more questions on judging consistency if Scorps and I judge the exact same fight and what Scorps thinks is an easy call in one RPers favor I say is an easy call in the other's? Like I said, I think that there should be three mods assigned, each of them grading a certain group of battles per round, but then when a battle is extremely close, the judges convene to discuss that fight. That seems like a logical method to me, but I dunno. I'd like to hear other mods opinions on this before I continue discussing this.
    I agree, the fact that customs are thrown into the mix presents you guys with some inconceivable challenges, but my main priority was the fact that McRazor had said that it would've been better to have more than one judge to avoid the idea that people will try to call "bias." It's almost unavoidable when people are competing for these prizes and they just don't want to value defeat and accept it without arguing, whether they may be right or wrong. To understand consistency, is to understand what variable you are actually given from the start, so I would say, whether it was one mod or the other, there is a single mod judging every fight form the first round to the third. So applying Scorps as a constant variable would be acceptable in this case. We'd say that his ideas of customs and what it takes to win shall stay the same over a course of time, given the other variables that factor in such as refining his reasoning of judgements based on whatever the case may be for needing to change his concept of how things carried along.

    I could have gone extremely in debt to what I meant in my examples, but my main purpose was not to argue the the rulings or say that something was done wrong. But to mainly give a theoretical series of examples that clearly define where people can have different outlooks to what makes a winner and a better Rpr than the other.

    I agree with most of what you said, I was gonna type a long wallie but overall I feel that Im in the wrong for giving vague examples and not really sitting down to really understand those concepts. Because they do pass through my conscious but I never really elaborated the thoughts, or had to be in one of your shoes and literally judge every single fight that took place myself, so I have no room to talk ^_^
     
         

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