View Poll Results: How do you rate this tournament?

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  • 1 - Very Bad

    1 2.44%
  • 2 - Bad

    0 0%
  • 3 - Decent

    5 12.20%
  • 4 - Good

    19 46.34%
  • 5 - Near Perfect

    16 39.02%
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  1. #51
    Riku..'s Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    For the first bold i think that for all intensive purposes that if your able to defend customs with only canon techniques and the match is more or less evenly matched or one person just barely had the upperhand that the canon user should win. I think we can all agree it's easier to defend a custom with another custom. And isnt it just better to award more "points" if you will, to the contestant that made it even with just canon? As for the op techniques, your right theres no criteria for op techniques, its all opinion. However, canon techniques were made by the creator of naruto. Who are we to say which of HIS techniques are op? Its his manga right? Customs are thought of by people with little to no experience in writting a succesful manga and approved by people with that same level of experience who THINK that it is possible in the context of the rules of naruto. Customs clearly have more potential to be Op'd then canon techniques and thus if one contestant is using high ranked customs throughout the battle they should be "punished" for it (or atleast that should be taken into heavy consideration when deciding the winner) if their opponent has only or mostly used canon techniques. In short, if its mainly canon vs custom and its pretty much even or the custom user has a slight advantage then the canon user should have won by a longshot. This is simply the punishment needed for custom spammers.

    @The second bold I like this idea, but who is to say what a close battle is? Its open to interpretation. As you said, one mod may think its an easy call and the other may not
    I won't really argue this since Lili already did for the most part, between what she said and my response to her, that's pretty much my entire take on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    I disagree. There's a lot of prejudice against custom techniques vs cannon techniques. Techniques are techniques, and all have a counter. There is no technique without a proper counter, at least not in this RP, custom or cannon. Getting one-shotted or defeated by a technique is not because the technique is invincible, it's just that it was used in the right time and the right circumstances. Showing skills with customs is exactly the same as showing skill with cannon. Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them.

    So, in the example you showed, if a member is using high ranked techniques, and his opponent is just surviving, the winner shouldn't be decided by cannon or custom, but by how long could the match continue that way. If you're using a pretty renewable technique to drive your opponent to the corner, while your opponent is using more chakra and taking more damage, then, in the end, he will run out of chakra and be defeated. But if you're launching bazookas and your opponent is countering it with a pretty renewable or more durable technique, then the attacker who controlled the flow of the fight all along will eventually run out and be defeated.
    I agree with what you're saying here almost fully. That would be completely applicable unless in the situation where someone is using grossly OPed techniques, which is where we have to question things. Your logic applies to any and every custom that has been approved recently and any and every custom that is restricted and made up to the standards that we hold them to right now. But you can't ignore that if an old member who has one of those ridiculously powerful customs comes in and fights a newer member who doesn't have anything to match up against that. I'll use Mugi as an example. He has a great amount of skill and strategy, I'm not saying that he doesn't, but if he wanted to he could fight without a bit of strategy and still put most people in a corner. Let's take his sound technique that instantaneously releases a 360 wave of sound across the battle field that decimates anyone and anything in its path. In that case, it's not about when you use the custom, it's about the custom itself. Customs shouldn't be better tools, but some of them just are. Some people do have customs that no matter when you use them can still be practically unavoidable. Again, customs like that haven't been approved since, hm, I'd say 2011-ish, but the fact that they're still around skews our ability, or mine at least, to judge certain fights. It's just something that's still present, but not really a pressing factor since a lot of people with those customs barely even RP anymore anyway. Now that said, I didn't see the problem really arise in this tourney, but it certainly can in the future, which is the only reason why I'm mentioning it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagato.. View Post
    I agree, the fact that customs are thrown into the mix presents you guys with some inconceivable challenges, but my main priority was the fact that McRazor had said that it would've been better to have more than one judge to avoid the idea that people will try to call "bias." It's almost unavoidable when people are competing for these prizes and they just don't want to value defeat and accept it without arguing, whether they may be right or wrong. To understand consistency, is to understand what variable you are actually given from the start, so I would say, whether it was one mod or the other, there is a single mod judging every fight form the first round to the third. So applying Scorps as a constant variable would be acceptable in this case. We'd say that his ideas of customs and what it takes to win shall stay the same over a course of time, given the other variables that factor in such as refining his reasoning of judgements based on whatever the case may be for needing to change his concept of how things carried along.

    I could have gone extremely in debt to what I meant in my examples, but my main purpose was not to argue the the rulings or say that something was done wrong. But to mainly give a theoretical series of examples that clearly define where people can have different outlooks to what makes a winner and a better Rpr than the other.

    I agree with most of what you said, I was gonna type a long wallie but overall I feel that Im in the wrong for giving vague examples and not really sitting down to really understand those concepts. Because they do pass through my conscious but I never really elaborated the thoughts, or had to be in one of your shoes and literally judge every single fight that took place myself, so I have no room to talk ^_^
    You certainly have room to talk, that's why this thread was made. Not only regardless of your position but BECAUSE of your position; you guys the main ones who are going to be participating in these tourneys, so speak your mind about them lol. But like I said, I think I'll wait for another mod before I say much more.
     
         

  2. #52
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    I disagree. There's a lot of prejudice against custom techniques vs cannon techniques. Techniques are techniques, and all have a counter. There is no technique without a proper counter, at least not in this RP, custom or cannon. Getting one-shotted or defeated by a technique is not because the technique is invincible, it's just that it was used in the right time and the right circumstances. Showing skills with customs is exactly the same as showing skill with cannon. Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them.

    So, in the example you showed, if a member is using high ranked techniques, and his opponent is just surviving, the winner shouldn't be decided by cannon or custom, but by how long could the match continue that way. If you're using a pretty renewable technique to drive your opponent to the corner, while your opponent is using more chakra and taking more damage, then, in the end, he will run out of chakra and be defeated. But if you're launching bazookas and your opponent is countering it with a pretty renewable or more durable technique, then the attacker who controlled the flow of the fight all along will eventually run out and be defeated.
    @1st bold With good reason.
    @2nd bold. WRONG. Dead wrong, looking back at the techniques that were approved before everything was restricted so much will show you that these techniques are at a scale that are probably impossible in the manga. As i said, you have techniques that are "Kishimoto approved" if you will and techniques that some fans think are possible. Think of decay release. Can you imagine someone in naruto wielding that? I'm sure even Kishi would laugh his ass off at someone suggesting decay release were possible in his manga but thats really sort of a sidebar (not saying decay release is stupid or anything, its a VERY well made ce, but MOST ce's would be laughed at if you could think of someone wielding it in naruto and i was just using decay as an example since its the first i thought of). Whether they are counterable or not isnt the problem and wasnt suggested. No, the problem is that customs have 1000x more chance to be op (and in all likelihood ARE more op) than regular canons and as such canons could easily be viewed as "weaker" than most custom techniques. Especially the high ranking ones. This goes back to what Nagato was saying about how if the attacker is using super strong and high ranked techniques and the defender is keeping up with the attacker or is evenly matched with the attacker, while using weaker techniques, the defender is clearly the more skilled and should be the victor. If they were being completely honest im sure most people would agree that customs are stronger than canons for the most part. Therefore the reasoning that if you are able to be evenly matched or just a bit behind an opponent who is mainly using customs (stronger techniques) while only using canons (weaker techniques) that you are the more skilled and should obviously be the victor. Its pretty cut and dry to me.

    @3rd bold. Compare the top 20 strongest canons to the top 20 strongest customs on base (of course since theres about 400 canons and waaaay more customs it should be a larger number like the top 100 or 200 to get a REAL feel of whats stronger but i think even with 20 it should be clear) Be honest and tell me which group is stronger and then see if you can repeat that. Customs are indeed stronger tools. Let me take that back, MOST are, not all.

    @4th bold well yes if your just barely surviving then you lost no matter what was used or how much your opponent spammed customs (of course i think someone should lose just for doing that but it has no place in the discussion) But in cases like, as riku said, your and typhons battle where he mainly used canons and you were only a bit ahead, Typhon should have been the winner in a landslide for making an even match against maninly customs with just canon techniques.


    EDIT: this is getting to be one of my custom rants again which isnt what this whole thing is about. In my experience older members will not understand what I just typed for one reason or another and newer members (or atleast me) will never understand the reasoning of the older ones. We agree to disagree and move onwards. This discussion is about the tournament and we should start swinging it back towards that
     
         
    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-19-2013 at 11:00 PM.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Gildarts Clive's Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    I disagree. There's a lot of prejudice against custom techniques vs cannon techniques. Techniques are techniques, and all have a counter. There is no technique without a proper counter, at least not in this RP, custom or cannon. Getting one-shotted or defeated by a technique is not because the technique is invincible, it's just that it was used in the right time and the right circumstances. Showing skills with customs is exactly the same as showing skill with cannon. Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them.

    So, in the example you showed, if a member is using high ranked techniques, and his opponent is just surviving, the winner shouldn't be decided by cannon or custom, but by how long could the match continue that way. If you're using a pretty renewable technique to drive your opponent to the corner, while your opponent is using more chakra and taking more damage, then, in the end, he will run out of chakra and be defeated. But if you're launching bazookas and your opponent is countering it with a pretty renewable or more durable technique, then the attacker who controlled the flow of the fight all along will eventually run out and be defeated.
    Liliana is correct here.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    2nd bold. WRONG. Dead wrong, looking back at the techniques that were approved before everything was restricted so much will show you that these techniques are at a scale that are probably impossible in the manga. As i said, you have techniques that are "Kishimoto approved" if you will and techniques that some fans think are possible. Think of decay release. Can you imagine someone in naruto wielding that? I'm sure even Kishi would laugh his ass off at someone suggesting decay release were possible in his manga but thats really sort of a sidebar (not saying decay release is stupid or anything, its a VERY well made ce, but MOST ce's would be laughed at if you could think of someone wielding it in naruto and i was just using decay as an example since its the first i thought of). Whether they are counterable or not isnt the problem and wasnt suggested. No, the problem is that customs have 1000x more chance to be op (and in all likelihood ARE more op) than regular canons and as such canons could easily be viewed as "weaker" than most custom techniques. Especially the high ranking ones. This goes back to what Nagato was saying about how if the attacker is using super strong and high ranked techniques and the defender is keeping up with the attacker or is evenly matched with the attacker, while using weaker techniques, the defender is clearly the more skilled and should be the victor. If they were being completely honest im sure most people would agree that customs are stronger than canons for the most part. Therefore the reasoning that if you are able to be evenly matched or just a bit behind an opponent who is mainly using customs (stronger techniques) while only using canons (weaker techniques) that you are the more skilled and should obviously be the victor. Its pretty cut and dry to me.
    No, not really. If we go by comparing our custom system and the actual Kishi version, then kishi would laugh at the simple fact that we all role play as if we were a bijuu, i mean, we can use S ranks every single turn, and it won't matter, in the anime an S rank can bring down the stamina and chakra of most regular ninja.

    As lili said, every custom has a counter, regardless of how strong it may be. The reason why cannon are viewed weaker than customs is because not everyone has acces to every custom, and since customs aren't shown in the anime/manga (obviously) people struggle to find a proper counter, but the counter always exists. However, i do agree that customs approved back in 09/10 are rather "vague" or "ridiculous". I remember seeing Mugiwara using a technique that travels at the speed of sound or light, and it leaves that target blind and def, in my opinon that custom would have never been approved in these days. Why? because RP mods make sure that every technique they approve has a counter, wich is something that i think mods back then "lacked" or ignored, mainly because there weren't many people and there was less arguments. So yeah, showing skill in using customs is the same as showing skill using cannons, because in the end, they are all techniques, and all have counters.

    Like the great Scorps said one day "Creating a custom show's skill of one's knowledge"
     
         
    Last edited by Gildarts Clive; 01-20-2013 at 12:34 AM.

  4. #54
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    Liliana is correct here.


    No, not really. If we go by comparing our custom system and the actual Kishi version, then kishi would laugh at the simple fact that we all role play as if we were a bijuu, i mean, we can use S ranks every single turn, and it won't matter, in the anime an S rank can bring down the stamina and chakra of most regular ninja.

    As lili said, every custom has a counter, regardless of how strong it may be. The reason why cannon are viewed weaker than customs is because not everyone has acces to every custom, and since customs aren't shown in the anime/manga (obviously) people struggle to find a proper counter, but the counter always exists. However, i do agree that customs approved back in 09/10 are rather "vague" or "ridiculous". I remember seeing Mugiwara using a technique that travels at the speed of sound or light, and it leaves that target blind and def, in my opinon that custom would have never been approved in these days. Why? because RP mods make sure that every technique they approve has a counter, wich is something that i think mods back then "lacked" or ignored, mainly because there weren't many people and there was less arguments. So yeah, showing skill in using customs is the same as showing skill using cannons, because in the end, they are all techniques, and all have counters.

    Like the great Scorps said one day "Creating a custom show's skill of one's knowledge"
    @1st bold. You have completely and I MEAN completely 100% missed the point of why i made that comparison for numerous reasons. And actually we have a chakra and health system in place. Lili actually uses it. Nearly everyone else ignores it. So if we were to rp exactly how the rules state I dont know how kishi could laugh at that.. Not as much as he would laugh at someone who used blazing earth at least. I mean whats more ridiculous to you? Ninjas that never tire? Or someone with the power to wield water that is 5k degrees? Keep in mind the first concept is already in naruto in the form of edo tensei and naruto's nearly endless stamina.

    2nd bold Ive actually already touched on this part in my post that you quoted but I guess i can do a repeat. The (untrue) statement that EVERY custom has a counter has nothing to do with this. What DOES is that no matter how you want to say it or how you try to reason it out, most customs are stronger then most canon jutsu. Period. There's no getting around it and to say otherwise would make you look very ignorant. As scorps also said, "there are over 400 canon jutsu" Thats pretty vast right? Take the top 20, the top 50, the top 100 of all the canon jutsu and compare them to top number of customs and its really no competition. That may not even be a good reason to prove customs are stronger than canon jutsu for the most part but the fact remains that a sane person would say that for the most part customs are stronger than canon. And as much as I feel that I dont even need to prove that customs are stronger than canon jutsu I just KNOW someones going to come and flat out say (in a very desperate attempt to defend their position) that I'm wrong and we live in a land of bubble gum and rainbows and their both equal. I just know someones gonna give me that bs that "its the user not the technique" when they KNOW thats untrue. If i had every single custom ever made and you had all the canon jutsus I would wipe you off the map no matter who much more skilled you are then me.

    2nd bold With all due respect that is ridiculous. REALLY ridiculous. Even Zen agreed with me when I said something like what I'm saying now, and I can show you the quote. Anyway, no this is so not true. Why do you think customs arent allowed in bio tests? Your telling me that someone spamming Ce's shows the same skill as someone only using canon to combat and evenly match them? Oh its well and good (which for the record I dont agree with) if you create the custom but what about the people that use other peoples customs? Is it still their own skill then? Remember the cj wells? Is it skill to use the cj's you got out of them? If you had no hand in that technique is it still skill to use it? This is different from canons because even though we didnt create it, EVERYONE (at least in this tournament) had access to the base 5. So its a level playing field EXCEPT for all the custom spam.
     
         
    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-20-2013 at 01:06 AM.

  5. #55
    Migualon J.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    Like the great Scorps said one day "Creating a custom show's skill of one's knowledge"
    i have to disagree with this line completely, because as Broly did point out, it's not skill to USE CJ, i agree that thinking of some good original CJs is cool and stuff, but really now, just because some people are not good at making CJs, does that mean that they are not smart? smh, that is idiotic talking

    i say there should be more tourneys with Cannons only, that is where real skill shows itself, by that i mean even without KGs and Hidden Abilities and Specialties of each bio if need be, that is where skill shows, not in tournament which shows who has most powerful CJs
     
         

  6. #56
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Migualon J.J. View Post
    i have to disagree with this line completely, because as Broly did point out, it's not skill to USE CJ, i agree that thinking of some good original CJs is cool and stuff, but really now, just because some people are not good at making CJs, does that mean that they are not smart? smh, that is idiotic talking

    i say there should be more tourneys with Cannons only, that is where real skill shows itself, by that i mean even without KGs and Hidden Abilities and Specialties of each bio if need be, that is where skill shows, not in tournament which shows who has most powerful CJs
    Oh my god! Could it be??? A believer!!! Someone who isnt shamelessly defending something which isnt true? rep to you good sir

    Mig dont even try it. They wont do it. Theyre scared... terrified of what the results of such a tournament could have. This is the only explanation that I can think of to why they wont just try it once.
     
         
    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-20-2013 at 01:11 AM.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Gildarts Clive's Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    @1st bold. You have completely and I MEAN completely 100% missed the point of why i made that comparison for numerous reasons. And actually we have a chakra and health system in place. Lili actually uses it. Everyone else ignores it. So if we were to rp exactly how the rules state I dont know how kishi could laugh at that.. Not as much as he would laugh at someone who used blazing earth at least. I mean whats more ridiculous to you? Ninjas that never tire? Or someone with the power to wield water that is 5k degrees? Keep in mind the first concept is already in naruto in the form of edo tensei and naruto's nearly endless stamina.

    2nd bold Ive actually already touched on this part in my post that you quoted but I guess i can do a repeat. The (untrue) statement that EVERY custom has a counter has nothing to do with this. What DOES is that no matter how you want to say it or how you try to reason it out, most customs are stronger then most canon jutsu. Period. There's no getting around it and to say otherwise would make you look very ignorant. As scorps also said, "there are over 400 canon jutsu" Thats pretty vast right? Take the top 20, the top 50, the top 100 of all the canon jutsu and compare them to top number of customs and its really no competition. That may not even be a good reason to prove customs are stronger than canon jutsu for the most part but the fact remains that a sane person would say that for the most part customs are stronger than canon.

    2nd bold With all due respect that is ridiculous. REALLY ridiculous. Even Zen agreed with me when I said something like what I'm saying now, and I can show you the quote. Anyway, no this is so not true. Why do you think customs arent allowed in bio tests? Your telling me that someone spamming Ce's shows the same skill as someone only using canon to combat and evenly match them? Oh its well and good (which for the record I dont agree with) if you create the custom but what about the people that use other peoples customs? Is it still their own skill then? Remember the cj wells? Is it skill to use the cj's you got out of them? If you had no hand in that technique is it still skill to use it? This is different from canons because even though we didnt create it, EVERYONE (at least in this tournament) had access to the base 5. So its a level playing field
    1st bold: Why don't we stop saying that kishi would laugh at customs that other people worked so hard to create, ok mate?

    2nd: Customs do have more strenth than cannon, but if you use it wrong, it won't matter, wich brings me back to what i already said, customs and cannon are all techniques, let them be stronger or weaker, in the end they are all technique, with a weakness/counter, Period. Saying others would look ignorant because they don't agree with you, makes you look ignorant.

    Your last thingy: Customs are actually allowed in some rain tests if you take a quick look. lol Yes! Did you not read Better's fight against Liliana in the tournament?? Lili obviously made use of her CE and better countered and survived with only cannon techniques, showing the same skill as lili, even without using customs. And it could very well be the same way around, Because it's not "spamming Ce's ", because they are elements, created by us, but in the end, elements, otherwise i could very well say that Better "Spammed Cannons" in his fight with Liliana. And yeah, even if they didn't create the custom, if they use it properly, they are showing skill with it, by understanding how it works and using it at the right timing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Migualon J.J. View Post
    i have to disagree with this line completely, because as Broly did point out, it's not skill to USE CJ, i agree that thinking of some good original CJs is cool and stuff, but really now, just because some people are not good at making CJs, does that mean that they are not smart? smh, that is idiotic talking

    i say there should be more tourneys with Cannons only, that is where real skill shows itself, by that i mean even without KGs and Hidden Abilities and Specialties of each bio if need be, that is where skill shows, not in tournament which shows who has most powerful CJs
    You're not getting the point of the sentence, i said "Creating a custom show's skill of one's knowledge" (knowledge referring to their understanding of the RP and techniques)

    Now read it, does it say using a custom shows skill? Does it?

    And, that people don't make good customs doesn't mean that they aren't smart, questioning that itself is Idiotic.

    The second part, lol, i agree that a cannon only tournament would make you guys happy, i'm on board with that, but saying that using cannon only is true skill is rather "idiotic talking" like Lili said herself "Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them."
     
         
    Last edited by Gildarts Clive; 01-20-2013 at 01:16 AM.

  8. #58
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    1st bold: Why don't we stop saying that kishi would laugh at customs that other people worked so hard to create, ok mate?

    2nd: Customs do have more strenth than cannon, but if you use it wrong, it won't matter, wich brings me back to what i already said, customs and cannon are all techniques, let them be stronger or weaker, in the end they are all technique, with a weakness/counter, Period. Saying others would look ignorant because they don't agree with you, makes you look ignorant.

    Your last thingy: Customs are actually allowed in some rain tests if you take a quick look. lol Yes! Did you not read Better's fight against Liliana in the tournament?? Lili obviously made use of her CE and better countered and survived with only cannon techniques, showing the same skill as lili, even without using customs. And it could very well be the same way around, Because it's not "spamming Ce's ", because they are elements, created by us, but in the end, elements, otherwise i could very well say that Better "Spammed Cannons" in his fight with Liliana. And yeah, even if they didn't create the custom, if they use it properly, they are showing skill with it, by understanding how it works and using it at the right timing.
    1st bold like i said in the first post that started this Im not making fun of anyones ce's. In fact the ones ive mentioned so far are well made. But you are high if you think Kishi would even CONSIDER putting any of the ones ive mentioned into naruto.

    @ bold Customs are stronger than canon. Thats all I wanted. So if the attacker has only used customs and the defender has only used canon's then they have matched that person by using weaker techniques, thus showing more skill and SHOULD make them the victor. Thats really all I wanted to hear. But to the other part theres a counter to a gun and theres a counter to a knife. They arent equal though, thats the flaw in your reasoning. If you told me that just because there was a counter to the gun and the knife and I said that they were still equal wouldnt you call me ignorant? (Guess which is the gun, the custom or the canon)

    @3rd bold. This was JUST allowed, for what reason i know not. But for all the IMPORTANT tests you know like Bio tests and sensei tests they are disallowed and I think you know why. Yes I did. And if better had evenly matched her in that battle with (as you said) weaker techniques, which are canon then he should have won. Never did I say that its impossible to counter customs with canon, in fact as a canon only user I HAVE to do this to survive. I can count on my fingers the amount of custom jutsu I've used here in the year that Ive been rp'ing. And gildarts, if you spam ce's. Your spamming ce's. Your grabbing at straws here. Have you EVER heard someone complain "Oh man that guy sucks, he's always spamming canon jutsus" But how many time have you heard the term "spamming customs" thrown around?

    By your OWN admission canon techniques are weaker than customs. So how is using customs and using canons showing the same skill exactly?


    The second part, lol, i agree that a cannon only tournament would make you guys happy, i'm on board with that, but saying that using cannon only is true skill is rather "idiotic talking" like Lili said herself "Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them."
    Canon only IS true skill. For various reasons that I can explain to you if you'd like. BUt what I'm really interested in is in bold. You can no longer say that. YOU said customs are stronger. Stronger= better. You have just disagreed with Lili. If i have a brand new hammer made of the best material and you have a stick and were trying to hammer in a nail. Does it really matter what tools we have at that point?


    You're not getting the point of the sentence, i said "Creating a custom show's skill of one's knowledge" (knowledge referring to their understanding of the RP and techniques)

    Now read it, does it say using a custom shows skill? Does it?
    If using a custom DOESNT show skill then what are you here defending exactly?
     
         
    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-20-2013 at 01:29 AM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Gildarts Clive's Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    1st bold like i said in the first post that started this Im not making fun of anyones ce's. In fact the ones ive mentioned so far are well made. But you are high if you think Kishi would even CONSIDER putting any of the ones ive mentioned into naruto.

    @ bold Customs are stronger than canon. Thats all I wanted. So if the attacker has only used customs and the defender has only used canon's then they have matched that person by using weaker techniques, thus showing more skill and SHOULD make them the victor. Thats really all I wanted to hear. But to the other part theres a counter to a gun and theres a counter to a knife. They arent equal though, thats the flaw in your reasoning. If you told me that just because there was a counter to the gun and the knife and I said that they were still equal wouldnt you call me ignorant? (Guess which is the gun, the custom or the canon)

    @3rd bold. This was JUST allowed, for what reason i know not. But for all the IMPORTANT tests you know like Bio tests and sensei tests they are disallowed and I think you know why. Yes I did. And if better had evenly matched her in that battle with (as you said) weaker techniques, which are canon then he should have won. Never did I say that its impossible to counter customs with canon, in fact as a canon only user I HAVE to do this to survive. I can count on my fingers the amount of custom jutsu I've used here in the year that Ive been rp'ing. And gildarts, if you spam ce's. Your spamming ce's. Your grabbing at straws here. Have you EVER heard someone complain "Oh man that guy sucks, he's always spamming canon jutsus" But how many time have you heard the term "spamming customs" thrown around?
    1st. Did i say i did think that?

    2nd. I guess we agree in most of that part. But, again with the comparing, it's rather vague. Customs and Cannons are both techniques, guns and knifes, are two diferent objects, if you'd had mentioned 2 diferent types of guns, then it would've made more sense, so there's the flaw in your reasoning.

    3rd. To show understanding of the basics obviously, that they arent allowed to use customs doesn't mean that using them doesn't show skill. Yes, he would have won, but lili had more pressure on him than he did on her. And Broly, if you spam Cannons..you spam cannons. Because like i already said for the 3rd time, they are ALL techniques/elements, they are all meant to be used in battle. However since some are customs, people can't find a proper counter depending on the situation, therefor they lose and complain "Oh man that guy sucks, he spammed customs" um..LOL he did not, he just made use of the techniques at his disposal, customs are also techniques meant to be used in battle. Wich means that the person who lost is a sore loser, wich takes me to the next point, NO ONE wants to lose anymore. (wich is not the main topic right now)
     
         
    Last edited by Gildarts Clive; 01-20-2013 at 01:32 AM.

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    1st bold: Why don't we stop saying that kishi would laugh at customs that other people worked so hard to create, ok mate?

    2nd: Customs do have more strenth than cannon, but if you use it wrong, it won't matter, wich brings me back to what i already said, customs and cannon are all techniques, let them be stronger or weaker, in the end they are all technique, with a weakness/counter, Period. Saying others would look ignorant because they don't agree with you, makes you look ignorant.


    The second part, lol, i agree that a cannon only tournament would make you guys happy, i'm on board with that, but saying that using cannon only is true skill is rather "idiotic talking" like Lili said herself "Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them."
    did you just in 1 post say complete opposit of what you said? O__O bolded parts and most importantly underlined ones i mean

    now could you please tell me which one of those i am supposed to consider your opinion?
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Migualon J.J. View Post
    did you just in 1 post say complete opposit of what you said? O__O bolded parts and most importantly underlined ones i mean

    now could you please tell me which one of those i am supposed to consider your opinion?
    Both, please, try to think a little, customs (most of the oldies) due carry more strengh, but in the end they are all techniques, it's like 2 cannon techniques, a C rank and an A rank, the A rank carries more strength, doesn't it? but what are they? TECHNIQUES. Both are techniques, regardless of how much strength they have, and all have counters, don't they?





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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    1st. Did i say i did think that?

    2nd. I guess we agree in most of that part. But, again with the comparing, it's rather vague. Customs and Cannons are both techniques, guns and knifes, are two diferent objects, if you'd had mentioned 2 diferent types of guns, then it would've made more sense, so there's the flaw in your reasoning.

    3rd. To show understanding of the basics obviously, that they arent allowed to use customs doesn't mean that using them doesn't show skill. Yes, he would have won, but lili had more pressure on him than he did on her. And Broly, if you spam Cannons..you spam cannons. Because like i already said for the 3rd time, they are ALL techniques/elements, however since some are customs, people can't find a proper couter depending on the situation, therefor they lose and complain "Oh man that guy sucks, he spammed customs" um..LOL obviously, customs are also techniques. Wich means that the person who lost is a sore loser.
    1st. No just a little statement for those that might

    2nd. Not entirely, in a broad sense theyre both weapons. 2 types of weapons. Canon and custom are weapons that we use to kill people just like guns and knives, and just like guns and knives they are two different types of weapons. Decay is not the same as fire style. But even so if you have a gun from the 1700's and I have a modern weapon I'd put my money on myself


    3rd But you see you DONT spam canons and even if you did Im pretty sure to EVERYONE else or atleast nearly everyone else has MUCH more of a problem with custom spamming then the great evil that is canon spam. I dont quite understand the second part of your first sentence on your 3rd point. I disagree, while some may be sore losers are you really saying that some people dont have a legitimate reason to be mad at people spamming customs? Its all just sore losers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    Both, please, try to think a little, customs (most of the oldies) due carry more strengh, but in the end they are all techniques, it's like 2 cannon techniques, a C rank and an A rank, the A rank carries more strength, doesn't it? but what are they? TECHNIQUES. Now carry on lad.
    I agree with him. You seem to be flip flopping on your opinions






    (The above are just faces you've shown)

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    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-20-2013 at 01:40 AM.

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    1st. No just a little statement for those that might

    2nd. Not entirely, in a broad sense theyre both weapons. 2 types of weapons. Canon and custom are weapons that we use to kill people just like guns and knives, and just like guns and knives they are two different types of weapons. Decay is not the same as fire style. But even so if you have a gun from the 1700's and I have a modern weapon I'd put my money on myself


    3rd But you see you DONT spam canons and even if you did Im pretty sure to EVERYONE else or atleast nearly everyone else has MUCH more of a problem with custom spamming then the great evil that is canon spam. I dont quite understand the second part of your first sentence on your 3rd point. I disagree, while some may be sore losers are you really saying that some people dont have a legitimate reason to be mad at people spamming customs? Its all just sore losers?



    I agree with him. You seem to be flip flopping on your opinions
    2nd. Alright, so i have a gun from back in 1700, and you have an AK-47 (Sorry, i don't know about guns and stuff), and you start shooting BANG BANG, but i take cover, and in a moment of recharge or whatever, i pop up and shoot you in the head, i won the duel, now give me your money punk. Wich proves my point, it doesn't matter how strong or weak the technique is, cannon or customs, What matters is how you use it.

    3rd. Exactly, no one spams cannons, even though that's all they use in a fight, why? because they are techniques, wich are supposed to be used in battle. The same with customs, since they aren't at the disposal of everybody, they could very well say others might be spamming them, however, they are not, because customs are also techniques meant to be used in battle. What i'm trying to say is, even though customs may or may not be stronger or weaker, they are all techniques, with a counter/weakness. I do agree that if the attacker has only used customs and the defender has only used canon's then they have matched that person by using weaker techniques, thus showing more skill and SHOULD make them the victor. But my point still stands, both are techniques, with weaknesses, it just depends on how we use them, and using either is also showing skill, because you can give an S rank customs to a newbie, and he won't know how to use it. I'm starting to circle around, i starting to lose track of the point >,<
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    2nd. Alright, so i have a gun from back in 1700, and you have an AK-47 (Sorry, i don't know about guns and stuff), and you start shooting BANG BANG, but i take cover, and in a moment of recharge or whatever, i pop up and shoot you in the head, i won the duel, now give me your money punk. Wich proves my point, it doesn't matter how strong or weak the technique is, cannon or customs, What matters is how you use it.

    3rd. Exactly, no one spams cannons, even though that's all they use in a fight, why? because they are techniques, wich are supposed to be used in battle. The same with customs, since they aren't at the disposal of everybody, they could very well say others might be spamming them, however, they are not, because customs are also techniques meant to be used in battle. What i'm trying to say is, even though customs may or may not be stronger or weaker, they are all techniques, with a counter/weakness. I do agree that if the attacker has only used customs and the defender has only used canon's then they have matched that person by using weaker techniques, thus showing more skill and SHOULD make them the victor. But my point still stands, both are techniques, with weaknesses, it just depends on how we use them, and using either is also showing skill, because you can give an S rank customs to a newbie, and he won't know how to use it.
    Well for one since guns now can easily blow away concrete, this one is an automatic, and has a large magazine while also taking into consideration guns from 1700 had long reload times and were single shot. I honestly can NEVER see that happening. this has nothing to do with the conversation though. Also if its a duel (which implies were close up) that DEFINETLY wouldnt happen.



    Your generalizing customs too much man. Yes they are the same in the same way that a D rank technique and an S rank technique are the same. I know you want to defend your stance but you cant just generalize them like that because its not true. Your implying that theyre equal but they really arent. I have a custom myself that is S rank earth and can ONLY be destroyed by S rank lightning lol. Thats not equal at all. But the bolded is what this conversation was really about. Which confuses me because you said you agreed with Lili, but Lili was disagreeing with that part

    But also if you gave a newbie an s rank custom of course he wont know but your thinking WAY extreme. If you gave the average skill rp'er allll the customs ever made against a higher skilled opponent with just canons, the mid tier rp'er would blow him away.
     
         
    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-20-2013 at 01:56 AM.

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    I havent used many customs in this tournament and Im in the fight for 3rd place. :shrug:
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    Well for one since guns now can easily blow away concrete, this one is an automatic, and has a large magazine while also taking into consideration guns from 1700 had long reload times and were single shot. I honestly can NEVER see that happening. this has nothing to do with the conversation though. Also if its a duel (which implies were close up) that DEFINETLY wouldnt happen.


    Your generalizing customs too much man. Yes they are the same in the same way that a D rank technique and an S rank technique are the same. I know you want to defend your stance but you cant just generalize them like that because its not true. Your implying that theyre equal but they really arent. I have a custom myself that is S rank earth and can ONLY be destroyed by S rank lightning lol. Thats not equal at all. But the bolded is what this conversation was really about. Which confuses me because you said you agreed with Lili, but Lili was disagreeing with that part
    But you get the point there, no? xD

    Bold, equal to what exactly? to cannon techniques? Yes it, there are S rank lightning (cannon) that can destroy it, aren't there?. I agree with these below of what lili said. The rest of her post could very well be true in my opinion, but what i'm interested in is the below stuff.
    There is no technique without a proper counter, at least not in this RP, custom or cannon. Getting one-shotted or defeated by a technique is not because the technique is invincible, it's just that it was used in the right time and the right circumstances.
    "Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them."
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    If someone is cooking using oranges, and someone is cooking using lemons, how can you say who is the better cook? Now, if both are using oranges, you have a constant, and thus, you can judge who's better. It's the same with cannons. Cannons are free to everyone, they're standard techniques. So, when you're judged on your mastery of an element or an ability, they give you the cannon jutsus to work with, not because using cannon shows the skill where customs don't, but because cannons allow us to compare you to all the other people that came before and will come after.

    But if you have someone using cannons, and someone using customs, you can't just apply it the same method. Saying cannons are the only ones that truly show skill is just wrong. They do give you a fixed constant, that is out of the question, but there's skill outside the constant.

    I'm tired of you saying cannons are weak. They're aren't. Here are some of the strongest cannons:

    1. The ability to nearly instantly alter the ground level up to 20 levels, negative or positive, in any range. Earth Release: Moving Earth Core

    2. The ability to burst your opponent into undying flames by sight, where the flames appear immediately on the point of focus. Doujutsu: Amateratsu

    3. The ability to resurrect a dead bio, with all it's jutsus, abilities and KG, with no cost to you and infinite health and chakra to them. Kinjutsu: Impure World Resurrection

    4. Space/Time Teleportation. Flying Thunder God and Doujutsu: Kamui

    5. The ability to summon an immense amount of water, covering the whole terrain. Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave

    6. A huge flame that allows you to cover everything in front of you. No usage restriction. Fire Release: Majestic Annihilation

    7. A clone of yourself that is able to use nearly any technique you want, and is indistinguishable from you, and instantly reverts all the information it learned to you. Shadow Clone Technique

    8. The ability to alter your opponent's senses, by charging chakra in their minds. Any Genjutsu

    9. The ability to seal and hold off Bijuu power. Wood Release.

    10. The ability to bring down a massive bolt of lightning at actual light speed. Lightning Release: Kiri

    If we look at jutsus now, they're pretty less powerful in themselves. The only thing is, they're more numerous, and account for more situations than the 400+ cannons. That is the true strength of customs. Because there seems to be a jutsu for every occasion, and that's what leads to defeat. Having more tools for more situations is just another matter of skill. Having less tools and still being able to do it, it's another. Is one better than the other? No. There's still a need to see a situation and know the exact effect one wants, in one case, he/she has the perfect tools, in the other case, he/she has to improvise. It doesn't mean the first can't improvise, he/she just didn't need to. Besides, you can control pretty much any fight with the cannon jutsus. If you can't, it means you're not skilled enough.

    Of course, there are exceptions. Sound is severely overpowered, with instant effects (That simply can't happen due to sound's speed of motion, which makes sounds techniques unblockable without cost, making it OP in my book). Med jutsu, the way it is handled currently, is also severely overpowered, with nearly infinite healing abilities and protection. These are somethings that need fixing, but I can assure you there aren't anymore customs being approved at the level of the cannons I mentioned in the 10.

    But of course, there are exceptions.
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    But you get the point there, no? xD

    Bold, equal to what exactly? to cannon techniques? Yes it, there are S rank lightning (cannon) that can destroy it, aren't there?. I agree with these below of what lili said. The rest of her post could very well be true in my opinion, but what i'm interested in is the below stuff.
    lol eh somewhat.

    No your looking at it wrong. There is a custom that was recently made that can only be destroyed by s rank lightning. What canon do you know thats like that? Canon and custom are not equal in the slightest

    For the first quote I mean yeah i cant argue that they all have weaknesses and strengths whether fair or not (like the earth custom from above) is a different story and alot of them do NOT have fair weaknesses.

    but by saying that customs are indeed stronger than canon jutsus you disagreed with the second part. If theyre stronger theyre obviously better. Then you implied that using customs DOESNT show skill to mig earlier. So which is it?
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    I disagree. There's a lot of prejudice against custom techniques vs cannon techniques. Techniques are techniques, and all have a counter. There is no technique without a proper counter, at least not in this RP, custom or cannon. Getting one-shotted or defeated by a technique is not because the technique is invincible, it's just that it was used in the right time and the right circumstances. Showing skills with customs is exactly the same as showing skill with cannon. Customs aren't better tools, they're different tools, and it's how one uses what they have that shows skills. In sum, it's not about what tools you have, but what you do with them.

    So, in the example you showed, if a member is using high ranked techniques, and his opponent is just surviving, the winner shouldn't be decided by cannon or custom, but by how long could the match continue that way. If you're using a pretty renewable technique to drive your opponent to the corner, while your opponent is using more chakra and taking more damage, then, in the end, he will run out of chakra and be defeated. But if you're launching bazookas and your opponent is countering it with a pretty renewable or more durable technique, then the attacker who controlled the flow of the fight all along will eventually run out and be defeated.
    Well.. There is that move that can destroy everything the size of ny.
    But than again those rpers dont even rp no more. so as far as im concern.. OP customs dont exist no more
    now when you got players like.. Roku, Scary, Izuna, Bishamon, Etc wanting to join battles for ****s and giggles and say "I wont be holding back" THEN i expect complaining.. cause either wayy .. we`re screwed. LMAO!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    Liliana is correct here.


    No, not really. If we go by comparing our custom system and the actual Kishi version, then kishi would laugh at the simple fact that we all role play as if we were a bijuu, i mean, we can use S ranks every single turn, and it won't matter, in the anime an S rank can bring down the stamina and chakra of most regular ninja.

    As lili said, every custom has a counter, regardless of how strong it may be. The reason why cannon are viewed weaker than customs is because not everyone has acces to every custom, and since customs aren't shown in the anime/manga (obviously) people struggle to find a proper counter, but the counter always exists. However, i do agree that customs approved back in 09/10 are rather "vague" or "ridiculous". I remember seeing Mugiwara using a technique that travels at the speed of sound or light, and it leaves that target blind and def, in my opinon that custom would have never been approved in these days. Why? because RP mods make sure that every technique they approve has a counter, wich is something that i think mods back then "lacked" or ignored, mainly because there weren't many people and there was less arguments. So yeah, showing skill in using customs is the same as showing skill using cannons, because in the end, they are all techniques, and all have counters.

    Like the great Scorps said one day "Creating a custom show's skill of one's knowledge"
    Lmao!!!
    I agree... I can imagine him coming and looking at spars...

    "...Rock Mountain Smash......... Kirin.......... Rasen.. SHIRUKEN?!?!?! and these guys are still with alot of chakra? Well call me kubo tite cause they pulled a fast one on my manga.. these are what we called OPdness" LMAO!

    Disagree to the highest...
    Most Customs are from other animes.. actually MOST of them are... so there is no knowledge in seeing another move on another anime. and converting it into a custom...

    Quote Originally Posted by Migualon J.J. View Post
    i have to disagree with this line completely, because as Broly did point out, it's not skill to USE CJ, i agree that thinking of some good original CJs is cool and stuff, but really now, just because some people are not good at making CJs, does that mean that they are not smart? smh, that is idiotic talking

    i say there should be more tourneys with Cannons only, that is where real skill shows itself, by that i mean even without KGs and Hidden Abilities and Specialties of each bio if need be, that is where skill shows, not in tournament which shows who has most powerful CJs
    Hmm.. Im thinking about having them custom ban everybody. D
    lol I keed. Anyways.. It dont take skill to use customs nor make them. Just a mind. and be slightly creative..
    what i can say though is.. Most customs i came across have cannon counters.. take it from a guy who been custom banned for 3 months and fight people with customs all the time and never lost to a custom. >_>

    OT: It all depends really.... since im custom banned.. I dont like people being restricted to cannon only.. Its more of a challange.. and nothing is better to me than saying you beat somebody using cannon as they used customs badly

    BUT there is a thing where CE come into play..
    No offense to mathias but Blazing Earth... I feel that should have never got approved.. I havent looked to deep into the CE. but you pretty much have a Strength and a Weakness in one.. You use water on blazing fire.. you have the earth to deal with... but you also got wave of inspiration.. to add to water to kill it. So eh.. Alot of CE are the things people should worry about...
     
         

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    Senior Member Gildarts Clive's Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by -Broly- View Post
    lol eh somewhat.

    No your looking at it wrong. There is a custom that was recently made that can only be destroyed by s rank lightning. What canon do you know thats like that? Canon and custom are not equal in the slightest

    For the first quote I mean yeah i cant argue that they all have weaknesses and strengths whether fair or not (like the earth custom from above) is a different story and alot of them do NOT have fair weaknesses.

    but by saying that customs are indeed stronger than canon jutsus you disagreed with the second part. If theyre stronger theyre obviously better. Then you implied that using customs DOESNT show skill to mig earlier. So which is it?
    Are you telling me, that there are no S rank lightning cannon techniques?

    No no señor, that a technique is stronger does not mean it's better. It means it carries more strength behind it, but if used wrong, it won't matter would it? wich takes be back..again..it's not the technique that matters, it's how you use it. Atleast that's how i see it, and i think we all have diferent opinions on the matter. And i never implied that, Mig said "it's not skill to USE CJ" referring to the line i posted about Scorps, so i asked him, if that sentence said "does it say using a custom shows skill? Does it?" , asking him if those words were on that sentence, in no way did i meant to say that using customs doesn't show skill, if you read it that way, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by General Teno View Post
    Disagree to the highest...
    Most Customs are from other animes.. actually MOST of them are... so there is no knowledge in seeing another move on another anime. and converting it into a custom....
    We all know that many people create customs out of their imagination, don't we? Lili for example, as far as i know, she came up with most of her Genjutsu customs, and You teno, for example this custom of yours (Yusaburu enjin) Earth Style: Rock Rings did you think of it, or is it from a diferent anime/manga?
     
         
    Last edited by Gildarts Clive; 01-20-2013 at 02:17 AM.

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Also, although the phrase: "He's spamming cannons" isn't used, there have been many complains about Sharingan, Sound, Med Jutsu, Fuuinjutsu, Zetsu abilities, Sage Mode, EIG, etc etc. Customs are just frowned upon because they seem stronger, and because they started to give rise to many OP-Cannon wannabes. Just like the first, the customs have been restricted, but the prejudice remains.

    The generalization was made because of the distinction between what's created in the universe of Naruto, and what's created in the universe of NB. So, people directed their hate of the OP-Cannon wannabes to all customs, and thus the phrase, "He's spamming customs", which just reveals extreme lack of intelligence and creativity. Sorry 'bout that
     
         

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    Kyudaime Kazekage Teño's Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    @ Lili. I dont want to quote you cause thats too long. But I actually do agree with you to a point...

    There is two ways I judge people on fighting

    1. Being on even grounds as me. Meaning Canon only. Using what kishi gives us.. This is not really OUR power but borrowed power we learn to master.. so in a way.. who is better at martial arts.. you... or I

    2. Your own power. Meaning.. CE, CJ, CW, CFS.. And all.. all that YOU CREATED. and how well you murder people with your own.. to be honest this is the measure of TRUE strength to me. when somebody goes all out then you know... thats the person strongest.. I say.. if a person dont go 100% (And by limiting cannon is making them hold back) then you really never seen a person give their all.. I think restricting people stuff is a cheat (to me anyways) cause there is no pride... ..lets say.... Me killing Izuna Uchiha... Knowing he didnt even release his Custom MS.. and even go about 40% on me..
     
         

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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    If someone is cooking using oranges, and someone is cooking using lemons, how can you say who is the better cook? Now, if both are using oranges, you have a constant, and thus, you can judge who's better. It's the same with cannons. Cannons are free to everyone, they're standard techniques. So, when you're judged on your mastery of an element or an ability, they give you the cannon jutsus to work with, not because using cannon shows the skill where customs don't, but because cannons allow us to compare you to all the other people that came before and will come after.

    But if you have someone using cannons, and someone using customs, you can't just apply it the same method. Saying cannons are the only ones that truly show skill is just wrong. They do give you a fixed constant, that is out of the question, but there's skill outside the constant.

    I'm tired of you saying cannons are weak. They're aren't. Here are some of the strongest cannons:

    1. The ability to nearly instantly alter the ground level up to 20 levels, negative or positive, in any range. Earth Release: Moving Earth Core

    2. The ability to burst your opponent into undying flames by sight, where the flames appear immediately on the point of focus. Doujutsu: Amateratsu

    3. The ability to resurrect a dead bio, with all it's jutsus, abilities and KG, with no cost to you and infinite health and chakra to them. Kinjutsu: Impure World Resurrection

    4. Space/Time Teleportation. Flying Thunder God and Doujutsu: Kamui

    5. The ability to summon an immense amount of water, covering the whole terrain. Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave

    6. A huge flame that allows you to cover everything in front of you. No usage restriction. Fire Release: Majestic Annihilation

    7. A clone of yourself that is able to use nearly any technique you want, and is indistinguishable from you, and instantly reverts all the information it learned to you. Shadow Clone Technique

    8. The ability to alter your opponent's senses, by charging chakra in their minds. Any Genjutsu

    9. The ability to seal and hold off Bijuu power. Wood Release.

    10. The ability to bring down a massive bolt of lightning at actual light speed. Lightning Release: Kiri

    If we look at jutsus now, they're pretty less powerful in themselves. The only thing is, they're more numerous, and account for more situations than the 400+ cannons. That is the true strength of customs. Because there seems to be a jutsu for every occasion, and that's what leads to defeat. Having more tools for more situations is just another matter of skill. Having less tools and still being able to do it, it's another. Is one better than the other? No. There's still a need to see a situation and know the exact effect one wants, in one case, he/she has the perfect tools, in the other case, he/she has to improvise. It doesn't mean the first can't improvise, he/she just didn't need to. Besides, you can control pretty much any fight with the cannon jutsus. If you can't, it means you're not skilled enough.

    Of course, there are exceptions. Sound is severely overpowered, with instant effects (That simply can't happen due to sound's speed of motion, which makes sounds techniques unblockable without cost, making it OP in my book). Med jutsu, the way it is handled currently, is also severely overpowered, with nearly infinite healing abilities and protection. These are somethings that need fixing, but I can assure you there aren't anymore customs being approved at the level of the cannons I mentioned in the 10.

    But of course, there are exceptions.
    1st Bold WHICH IS WHYYYY im trying to tell everyone that canon only is the only way to show true skill. The constant is the jutsus the measurements are clear. I mean this is the perfect analogy that proves that canon only is the way to go. I thank you for this Lili. Anyway im not sure whether your trying to help me or what but whatever ill just keep reading.

    @2nd paragraph/bold ah I see but this ALLLL goes back to what Gildarts said "customs are stronger than canon" this is an almost undenaible fact. Which ties back to what riku said "if you are evenly matched agaisnt an opponent using weaker techniques then the one using weaker techniques is more skilled" Im paraphrasing there but he certainly said that. As long as we agree on the premise that customs are indeed stronger than canon, your argument has no basis.

    3rd bold. Ill quit rp'ing right here and now if you can find where i said that canons are weak. I'll give you my account too. Why in the world would I (a person who mainly uses canon) say that canon is weak?

    4th bold want me to show you 10 WAY stronger customs? like i said we can go find the top 20 strongest canon and i guarentee you that if i find the top 20 custom that they will be stronger


    5th bold YES it is. Doing more with less? Of course thats better. If i do exactly what you did with less tools OF COURSE im better


    6th bold I think people are missing my point. What im saying is that if , like in your fight, someone has mainly used customs and the opponent has used canon to either evenly match, or make it super close. Then clearly the person who did it with canons should win.


    No no señor, that a technique is stronger does not mean it's better. It means it carries more strength behind it, but if used wrong, it won't matter would it? wich takes be back..again..it's not the technique that matters, it's how you use it. Atleast that's how i see it, and i think we all have diferent opinions on the matter. And i never implied that, Mig said "it's not skill to USE CJ" referring to the line i posted about Scorps, so i asked him, if that sentence said "does it say using a custom shows skill? Does it?" , asking him if those words were on that sentence, in no way did i meant to say that using customs doesn't show skill, if you read it that way, sorry.

    No
    Your grabbing straws and you know it. You can ALSO misuse a canon technique. But customs are stronger point blank.
    So why didnt you just say yes when mig asked you lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    Also, although the phrase: "He's spamming cannons" isn't used, there have been many complains about Sharingan, Sound, Med Jutsu, Fuuinjutsu, Zetsu abilities, Sage Mode, EIG, etc etc. Customs are just frowned upon because they seem stronger, and because they started to give rise to many OP-Cannon wannabes. Just like the first, the customs have been restricted, but the prejudice remains.

    The generalization was made because of the distinction between what's created in the universe of Naruto, and what's created in the universe of NB. So, people directed their hate of the OP-Cannon wannabes to all customs, and thus the phrase, "He's spamming customs", which just reveals extreme lack of intelligence and creativity. Sorry 'bout that
    *are stronger, even Gildarts Clive admitted it

    Anyway I'm almost sure thats wrong. Theres no way to prove it either way but Im almost sure custom spam is more of a problem

    2nd bold Because one of those things was created by the maker of naruto and the other was approved by fans that THINK it could happen in naruto. The very core of this sounds like you think canons are equal to customs. Is this what you think?
     
         
    Last edited by -Broly-; 01-20-2013 at 02:26 AM.

  24. #74
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by General Teno View Post
    @ Lili. I dont want to quote you cause thats too long. But I actually do agree with you to a point...

    There is two ways I judge people on fighting

    1. Being on even grounds as me. Meaning Canon only. Using what kishi gives us.. This is not really OUR power but borrowed power we learn to master.. so in a way.. who is better at martial arts.. you... or I

    2. Your own power. Meaning.. CE, CJ, CW, CFS.. And all.. all that YOU CREATED. and how well you murder people with your own.. to be honest this is the measure of TRUE strength to me. when somebody goes all out then you know... thats the person strongest.. I say.. if a person dont go 100% (And by limiting cannon is making them hold back) then you really never seen a person give their all.. I think restricting people stuff is a cheat (to me anyways) cause there is no pride... ..lets say.... Me killing Izuna Uchiha... Knowing he didnt even release his Custom MS.. and even go about 40% on me..
    Bold, true.

    @General people viewing the thread, if you guys would post your input, i'd appriciate it, even though i never actually role-played with my bios (with cero training) i do read a lot of fights, and like to hear opinions.
     
         

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    Kyudaime Kazekage Teño's Avatar
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    Re: [Grand RP Tournament] Xmas Edition - Feedback and Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    Also, although the phrase: "He's spamming cannons" isn't used, there have been many complains about Sharingan, Sound, Med Jutsu, Fuuinjutsu, Zetsu abilities, Sage Mode, EIG, etc etc. Customs are just frowned upon because they seem stronger, and because they started to give rise to many OP-Cannon wannabes. Just like the first, the customs have been restricted, but the prejudice remains.

    The generalization was made because of the distinction between what's created in the universe of Naruto, and what's created in the universe of NB. So, people directed their hate of the OP-Cannon wannabes to all customs, and thus the phrase, "He's spamming customs", which just reveals extreme lack of intelligence and creativity. Sorry 'bout that
    Hmm. I actually have to agree.. And the only person people say spam Zetsu Techs are about Vincent.. . I never seen somebody used EIG to be honest and once seen Sage mode. but than again. I dont see the problem with people using something they got.. I mean.. why have it .. if you dont use it... Is it a trophy to some people? Cause no offense.. If im fighting in a regular spar and i feel like its a good fight but ish getting reall. Ima release them mtf gats and go afternoon tiger on that ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts Clive View Post
    I feel like i only have to reply to your last part, since the rest is alright i guess. No no señor, that a technique is stronger does not mean it's better. It means it carries more strength behind it, but if used wrong, it won't matter would it? wich takes be back..again..it's not the technique that matters, it's how you use it. Atleast that's how i see it, and i think we all have diferent opinions on the matter. And i never implied that, Mig said "it's not skill to USE CJ" referring to the line i posted about Scorps, so i asked him, if that sentence said "does it say using a custom shows skill? Does it?" , asking him if those words were on that sentence, in no way did i meant to say that using customs doesn't show skill, if you read it that way, sorry.



    We all know that many people create customs out of their imagination, don't we? Lili for example, as far as i know, she came up with most of her Genjutsu customs, and You teno, for example this custom of yours (Yusaburu enjin) Earth Style: Rock Rings did you think of it, or is it from a diferent anime/manga?

    I said majority. lol
    but all of my customs came from imagination. I just pretty much throw some things together and hope it gets approved.. D I can give you the orgin for all mines

    Rock Rings: I actually got the core idea from dragon ball z.. but then thought... (I have nowhere to pin there person up against... ) So in a way.. I was inspired by dragon ball z (A move) but tweeked it..... ALOT. LOL

    Rock Boulders :was probally a prime example. I thought of crushing a rock to small pieces just to make the rocks boulder size and way bigger. (And to me thats actually an OP tech.. Cause chidori senbon would work but you still got raining rocks on you so tehe) Most of my scorch jutsus

    Blazing Formation: Thats just something I thought of out the ass. And it got approved. at that point i wanted anything to get approved.. never used it in battle. but power to anybody who can think of a way to use it. D

    Water Helmet: This was actually something i came with on the spot. I actually fought somebody... And they did a water orb and let the orb stay active till i drown.. I then created that.. so i can do the same...

    Scorch Body : Pretty much the same as water replacement. Except mines has drawbacks
    Scorch Explosion : Just though of Vegeta explosion..
    Scorch Clone: No different than scorch body excpept Its not me.. but a clone
    Scorch Orb: .. Hmm..... I just wanted people to know not to get within short range of me...

    Soo.... in my defense.... Most things that are custom made are from other or inspired by other animes
     
         
    Last edited by Teño; 01-20-2013 at 02:27 AM.

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