Page 2 of 4 « First 1234 Last»
Results 26 to 50 of 76
  1. #26
    susanoo askater1130's Avatar
    Status
    askater1130 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkST View Post
    Kishimoto has never referred to Itachi's genjutsu as "Perfect Tsukuyomi" at any point.



    There is such a thing called "Infinite Tsukuyomi", which is apparently better than the generic Tsukuyomi, and within the capabilities of Obito and Madara.



    And even that is not referred to as "Perfect Tsukuyomi". Guess Kishimoto broke your rule and gave both to Madara huh? Kishimoto has never referred to any application of Amaterasu as "Perfect Amaterasu", either.

    So I'm not sure who you're kidding with this incredibly flawed idea.
    the fact that u need to be the 10 tails jinchiriki means that it is not within their power to use infinite tsukuyomi . they need the 10 tails power and then they will reflect their tsukuyomi off of the moon
     
         

  2. #27
    Premium User Hotel Moscow's Avatar
    Status
    Hotel Moscow is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    On Earth...
    Posts
    1,973
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has a status
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    have you seen Madara's Katon? Compared to Sasuke's, its like a lighter to a blow torch. Not even close.
     
         

  3. #28
    Undefined BlinkST's Avatar
    Status
    BlinkST is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Genius eyes of a generation
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    have you seen Madara's Katon? Compared to Sasuke's, its like a lighter to a blow torch. Not even close.
    That's about as misleading as comparing these.




    They are different jutsu altogether. Has more to do with the what than the who.
     
         

  4. #29
    Premium User Hotel Moscow's Avatar
    Status
    Hotel Moscow is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    On Earth...
    Posts
    1,973
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has a status
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkST View Post
    That's about as misleading as comparing these.




    They are different jutsu altogether. Has more to do with the what than the who.
    Chapter 560. The very first skill he uses is Katon...and it's HUGE.
     
         

  5. #30
    पागल आशिक Frikid's Avatar
    Status
    Frikid is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking for sensei :T_T:
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkST View Post
    Kishimoto has never referred to Itachi's genjutsu as "Perfect Tsukuyomi" at any point.



    There is such a thing called "Infinite Tsukuyomi", which is apparently better than the generic Tsukuyomi, and within the capabilities of Obito and Madara.



    And even that is not referred to as "Perfect Tsukuyomi". Guess Kishimoto broke your rule and gave both to Madara huh? Kishimoto has never referred to any application of Amaterasu as "Perfect Amaterasu", either.

    So I'm not sure who you're kidding with this incredibly flawed idea.
    madara doesn't specialize in genjutsu. his specialty is in susano.
    and no one except itachi have shown to control time itself in the genjutsu. You blindly thought infinite tsukiyomi is better genjutsu then itachi's tsukiyomi but it isn't.



    you can clearly see, madara cannot perform his infinite tsukiyomi without getting connected to gedou mazo.
    that is why he needs the juubi to use infinite tsukiyomi.

    itachi created this dreamscape without any external help while madara needs the juubi to create the dream world.

    So again tell me who is better at tsukiyomi ?

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Nope, its almost set in stone Sasuke will get Perfect Susanoo.

    Madara's EMS Final Susanoo (Unstabilized version)


    Sasuke's EMS Final Susanoo (Unstabilized version)


    If you look at the two, you can see that they have the exact same characteristics (fluttering chakra, arms, eyes) this indicates that they are the same level of Susanoo. Now what did Madara do to his Perfect Susanoo unstabilized? He stabilized it and it transformed. Sasuke is obviously going to do the same to his Susanoo and it will transform, what it will turn into is unknown for now.

    Also, the thing unique about Madara's Susanoo, is its legs, size, and sheer destructive power, this is just you going off an assumption that Sasuke's PS will look anything like Madara's which is obviously false. Perfect Susanoo is merely a term Madara made up for his Susanoo due to how powerful it is, its just Madara's Final Susanoo.
    hehe you made me lol,

    There is only one perfect susano and that is of madara's.
    there is nothing like sasuke's perfect susano or itachi's perfect susano :sy:
    Do i need to tell you the meaning of perfect?

    Say for example :

    If we rate madara's perfect susano, it should be 10/10.
    which means he got a perfect 10.
    But if we rate sasuke's unstabilized susano, it would be not more than 6.
    After stabilizing it would increase to 7 or 8.
    So sasuke's best susano would be 8/10 which is far from perfect.

    Hence sasuke wont get perfect susano.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkST View Post
    That's about as misleading as comparing these.




    They are different jutsu altogether. Has more to do with the what than the who.
    ^Thanks for clearing it out .

    Madara may have shown katon which looks huge and overpowered.
    But i strongly believe sasuke have overpowered him in katon.
     
         

  6. #31
    Premium User Hotel Moscow's Avatar
    Status
    Hotel Moscow is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    On Earth...
    Posts
    1,973
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has a status
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Sasuke's best Kotan isn't gonna be that big though. And lets say for argument sake that Sasuke and Madara right now were to clash Katon, Sasuke's would overpower Madara? Not saying it would happen...Just saying it didn't happen yet.

    P.S. What are Madara's MS abilities? Don't remember seeing them.
     
         

  7. #32
    पागल आशिक Frikid's Avatar
    Status
    Frikid is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking for sensei :T_T:
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    Sasuke's best Kotan isn't gonna be that big though. And lets say for argument sake that Sasuke and Madara right now were to clash Katon, Sasuke's would overpower Madara? Not saying it would happen...Just saying it didn't happen yet.

    P.S. What are Madara's MS abilities? Don't remember seeing them.
    you missed the susano ? O.o
    he can do amaterasu and tsukiyomi as well since they are the prime requirement for susano.
     
         

  8. #33
    Academy Student jsavieti's Avatar
    Status
    jsavieti is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    either sasuke gets a power up... or naruto gets a power down? Good bye kyuubi??

    Sage mode vs EMS Sasuke seems pretty even grounds?

    EDIT: I like the sound of your post OP!
     
         

  9. #34
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
    Status
    KidGamer65 is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    21,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    ---



    hehe you made me lol,

    There is only one perfect susano and that is of madara's.
    there is nothing like sasuke's perfect susano or itachi's perfect susano :sy:
    Do i need to tell you the meaning of perfect?

    Say for example :

    If we rate madara's perfect susano, it should be 10/10.
    which means he got a perfect 10.
    But if we rate sasuke's unstabilized susano, it would be not more than 6.
    After stabilizing it would increase to 7 or 8.
    So sasuke's best susano would be 8/10 which is far from perfect.


    Hence sasuke wont get perfect susano.
    .
    Wrong, Perfect Susanoo is simply what Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo. Again, this is you going to the stupid assumption that all Susanoo are the same which is obviously false if you could read the manga, even Sasuke doesn't call his Susanoo Perfect Susanoo, it will still be the same level of Susanoo Madara will have, but it will look different.

    Everything is bold just made by wanna slam my face against the desk.....Perfect Susanoo has nothing do with that, first of all no Susanoo as Perfect as they all have their weaknesses. Madara calls it "perfect" because it is so powerful, not because it is literally perfect.

    What Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo, is simply a stabilized EMS Susanoo, nothing more. The term "Perfect" has no meaning,
     
         
    Last edited by KidGamer65; 01-21-2013 at 12:19 PM.

  10. #35
    Academy Student
    Status
    Fantastic Mr Fox is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Technically speaking, all the jutsu's are just manipulations of Chakra (which everyone has) so anyone should be able to use any jutsu with enough practice (if any trolls have a problem with that, drop it. I don't care.)
    The Uchicha have 'evolved' to include a 'short cut' to these techniques through their eyes (alright, not sure how that ever made sense, but let's go with it).
    Is it more likely that any given Uchiha is capable of perfecting ONLY one MS supermove IF they even get MS?
    OR doesn't it make more sense these particular Uchiha are better at certain moves because (as you said) they simply enhanced the areas they were ALREADY good at?
    Itachi was good at genjutsu so now he's also good at tsukiyomi.
    Saskue was good at ninjutsu so now he's also good at amaretsu.
    etc...
    Wouldn't it be possible by the same logic that Saskue could perfect tsukiyomi by working on his overall genjutsu?
     
         

  11. #36
    Lost Artist veggetta13's Avatar
    Status
    veggetta13 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tenochtitlan
    Posts
    2,577
    Post Thanks / Like
    "shapeless, formless, be
    water my friend."
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    Hello NB,
    Today i am gonna explain you why sasuke will not get Perfect Susano and why it is special and unique to only Madara.

    Lets talk about MS. Especially MS of madara,itachi,sasuke.

    We know Itachi, Sasuke And Madara got the same abilities from MS, which is amaterasu,tsukiyomi and susano.
    But tell me are they really similar?


    Lets see the difference,

    Itachi = Expert in genjutsu = perfect tsukiyomi.





    As you can see in the above image Itachi can control time in his tsukiyomi. Now, even sasuke and madara have tsukiyomi but they cannot do what itachi can. Itachi have mastered Tsukiyomi and hence obtained perfect tsukiyomi in which time can be controlled.
    This perfect tsukiyomi is only special to him and no one else can obtain it.
    Kishi is a Genius, he gave the three ninjas same abilities yet they are so different.



    Sasuke = expert in ninjutsu(katon) = Perfect Amaterasu.




    Well as of today, it is safe to say that sasuke is currently the best katon user. He already overpowered itachi in katon .Some might say obito or madara are better but amaterasu being superior flames and since sasuke being the best amaterasu user, it is obvious he should be stated as the best katon user too.

    As you saw above ,itachi's specialty is genjutsu and that is why he can use perfect tsukiyomi,
    Sasuke's specialty is katon and that is why he obtained perfect amaterasu.

    Only And ONLY sasuke can do this :
    Sasuke combining amaterasu and susano in ms :-

    In EMS :


    Now only sasuke can use amaterasu to this extent, Perfect amaterasu is only special to him and nobody will obtain it.



    Madara = Perfect Susano


    Now i think you will understand what i meant when i said sasuke will not get PS.

    Kishi have decided to give each ninja out of these 3 a specialty in certain thing.
    If sasuke have perfect amaterasu, itachi have perfect tsukiyomi, then madara gets perfect susano.

    Madara's use of susano is way over sasuke's or itachi's .
    Sasuke and itachi's susano are no way near madara's.
    Even Madara's normal susano have legs and arms, madara can hop over his susano, as if it is a summon.


    he just put in more chakra,stabilized it and improved it to this extent :





    Summary:

    Kishi is a genius.
    He has decided to give each guy out of itachi,sasuke and madara a specialty.
    Itachi's specialty is tsukiyomi and thats why only he can do it to that extent.
    Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu and we have yet to see him using it to his full potential.
    Madara's specialty is susano and that is why only he can do the perfect susano.

    Hence, sasuke isn't getting perfect susano.
    You got valid points, arguments. I´d think they´d become plausible as facts, as long as we don´t get to see Sasuke.

    The flaw of this whole theory is we haven´t seen yet Konoha´s avenger, which will probably reintroduce himself with some upgrade due to him obtaining perfect ems. All valid discussions, but most possibly granting him rinnergan if not other doujutsu.

    I see where you are going, but if I were to rush on Madara as a fanboy, i would probably sAY:-hey, he´s the best in ninjutsu.

    Remember Naruto before doing toad trianing? He´s said to have had a fighting tech not as good as Sasuke. Now, well....
     
         

  12. #37
    पागल आशिक Frikid's Avatar
    Status
    Frikid is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking for sensei :T_T:
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Wrong, Perfect Susanoo is simply what Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo. Again, this is you going to the stupid assumption that all Susanoo are the same which is obviously false if you could read the manga, even Sasuke doesn't call his Susanoo Perfect Susanoo, it will still be the same level of Susanoo Madara will have, but it will look different.

    Everything is bold just made by wanna slam my face against the desk.....Perfect Susanoo has nothing do with that, first of all no Susanoo as Perfect as they all have their weaknesses. Madara calls it "perfect" because it is so powerful, not because it is literally perfect.

    What Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo, is simply a stabilized EMS Susanoo, nothing more. The term "Perfect" has no meaning.
    madara calls his susano perfect because maybe it is ACTUALLY PERFECT.
    Let me tell you one thing, Madara have the best susano in the manga. Itachi and sasuke's susano is no where near madara's susano.
    Let's see what madara's USUAL susano have :
    LEGS. HUGE SIZE. CAN BE USED AS A SUMMON (which means, he don't need to be covered around it).
    Now madara improved it and hence he got a PERFECT SUSANO.
    My point is , even after obtaining EMS sasuke's susano is no where near madara's regular susano. SO he would never get the perfect susano madara have.

    Now let me tell you where you are getting it wrong,
    Let's see what itachi's susano have, totsuka sword and yata mirror. This makes him virtually invincible. But can you consider it as a perfect susano ? NO! absolutely not.
    Sasuke would definitely improve his susano, he might get a amaterasu shield/sword and some other susano upgrade, but still it is not going to be considered as perfect.(and anyway covering susano in amaterasu shows his mastery in amaterasu and not in susano )
    And still it is going to be far more weaker than madara's perfect susano. Madara perfected susano by getting legs,armor,sword,4 hands,huge size,good looks etc.
    Sasuke wont do that because it isn't his specialty , it is amaterasu.
    If sasuke is going to improve in anything out of 3 , it would be amaterasu , Because kishi have decided it to be this way.It is the thing he is best in.

    Wrong, Perfect Susanoo is simply what Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo. Again, this is you going to the stupid assumption that all Susanoo are the same which is obviously false if you could read the manga
    weren't you visually comparing madara and sasuke's susano and saying sasuke's susano looks same as madara's susano ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantastic Mr Fox View Post
    Technically speaking, all the jutsu's are just manipulations of Chakra (which everyone has) so anyone should be able to use any jutsu with enough practice (if any trolls have a problem with that, drop it. I don't care.)
    The Uchicha have 'evolved' to include a 'short cut' to these techniques through their eyes (alright, not sure how that ever made sense, but let's go with it).
    Is it more likely that any given Uchiha is capable of perfecting ONLY one MS supermove IF they even get MS?
    OR doesn't it make more sense these particular Uchiha are better at certain moves because (as you said) they simply enhanced the areas they were ALREADY good at?
    Itachi was good at genjutsu so now he's also good at tsukiyomi.
    Saskue was good at ninjutsu so now he's also good at amaretsu.
    etc...
    Wouldn't it be possible by the same logic that Saskue could perfect tsukiyomi by working on his overall genjutsu?
    IF sasuke work more in his genjutsu , still he wont be able to get perfect tsukiyomi, because kishi don't want it this way.
    You know sometimes it is born talent. Everyone have their own specialty.
    Look hard work sure helps but if something isn't your specialty , you can't do much about it.
    Sasuke must have worked hard in genjutsu , that is why, he could defeat itachi's tsukiyomi and obtained tsukiyomi after getting MS.
    But Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu, that is why he could not only summon it, but extinguish and control it. He mastered amaterasu.

    Quote Originally Posted by veggetta13 View Post
    You got valid points, arguments. I´d think they´d become plausible as facts, as long as we don´t get to see Sasuke.

    The flaw of this whole theory is we haven´t seen yet Konoha´s avenger, which will probably reintroduce himself with some upgrade due to him obtaining perfect ems. All valid discussions, but most possibly granting him rinnergan if not other doujutsu.

    I see where you are going, but if I were to rush on Madara as a fanboy, i would probably sAY:-hey, he´s the best in ninjutsu.

    Remember Naruto before doing toad trianing? He´s said to have had a fighting tech not as good as Sasuke. Now, well....
    I think it is pretty obvious now, that sasuke's powerup will be related to amaterasu. Just everytime we see him, he shows his above average talent in amaterasu.
    He could create a amaterasu orb which could shoot amaterasu fireballs. He could instantly create a amaterasu wall which stopped kabuto coming near to him and itachi.
     
         

  13. #38
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
    Status
    KidGamer65 is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    21,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    madara calls his susano perfect because maybe it is ACTUALLY PERFECT.
    Let me tell you one thing, Madara have the best susano in the manga. Itachi and sasuke's susano is no where near madara's susano.
    Let's see what madara's USUAL susano have :
    LEGS. HUGE SIZE. CAN BE USED AS A SUMMON (which means, he don't need to be covered around it).
    Now madara improved it and hence he got a PERFECT SUSANO.
    My point is , even after obtaining EMS sasuke's susano is no where near madara's regular susano. SO he would never get the perfect susano madara have.

    Now let me tell you where you are getting it wrong,
    Let's see what itachi's susano have, totsuka sword and yata mirror. This makes him virtually invincible. But can you consider it as a perfect susano ? NO! absolutely not.
    Sasuke would definitely improve his susano, he might get a amaterasu shield/sword and some other susano upgrade, but still it is not going to be considered as perfect.(and anyway covering susano in amaterasu shows his mastery in amaterasu and not in susano )
    And still it is going to be far more weaker than madara's perfect susano. Madara perfected susano by getting legs,armor,sword,4 hands,huge size,good looks etc.
    Sasuke wont do that because it isn't his specialty , it is amaterasu.
    If sasuke is going to improve in anything out of 3 , it would be amaterasu , Because kishi have decided it to be this way.It is the thing he is best in.
    Bold is exactly what I've been saying, it won't be like Madara's. But I see what you're saying....I still think that he will stabilize his Susanoo as his upgrade to match Naruto. An upgrade in Amaterasu (one he just got anyway) won't help against Naruto, as he can dodge it, what he needs is an upgraded Susanoo.
    weren't you visually comparing madara and sasuke's susano and saying sasuke's susano looks same as madara's susano ?
    Only in certain characteristics, overall they barely look anything alike.
     
         

  14. #39
    Premium User Hotel Moscow's Avatar
    Status
    Hotel Moscow is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    On Earth...
    Posts
    1,973
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has a status
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    What is Obito best at? Katon? or *Fill in blank*
    Can't say kamui since its Obito eye-only.
    What is Shisui best at? Katon? or * Fill in blank*
    And why the hell is Obito eyes so special?
     
         

  15. #40
    Lost Artist veggetta13's Avatar
    Status
    veggetta13 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tenochtitlan
    Posts
    2,577
    Post Thanks / Like
    "shapeless, formless, be
    water my friend."
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    I think it is pretty obvious now, that sasuke's powerup will be related to amaterasu. Just everytime we see him, he shows his above average talent in amaterasu.
    He could create a amaterasu orb which could shoot amaterasu fireballs. He could instantly create a amaterasu wall which stopped kabuto coming near to him and itachi.
    Remember the t-shirt OVA, on which Naruto y suppossedly having his last match vs sasuke?
    I believe they will actually exchange a lot of punches, i woulkdn´t know how to explain why i think trhat will happen but it´s quite a hunch. kishi sort of respects or shows signs of it towards his fav characters by giving them long punch fight, very taijutsu style
     
         

  16. #41
    Member Kage Bumchin's Avatar
    Status
    Kage Bumchin is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    340
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Hmm but the thing is... Itachi didn't have EMS so your logic is flawed
     
         

  17. #42
    Undefined BlinkST's Avatar
    Status
    BlinkST is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Genius eyes of a generation
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    madara doesn't specialize in genjutsu. his specialty is in susano.
    and no one except itachi have shown to control time itself in the genjutsu.
    No evidence of that.

    The databook description and Itachi's own words plainly state that Tsukuyomi's characteristics are not unique to him. They are a trait of the jutsu. It works to their specifications.

    NINJUTSU; KEKKEI GENKAI; Tsukuyomi
    User: Uchiha Itachi
    Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none

    Main text

    Amidst the insight and hypnosis possessed by Sharingan, is a supreme genjutsu, born from the aforementioned hypnosis: Tsukuyomi. Originally, people on the face of the Earth live bound by limitations like time, gravity, and space; and how people exert their abilities within those restrictions is what separates the victors from the vanquished. But in the mental world where the caster drags their opponent, the Tsukuyomi jutsu gives them control over those very limitations!

    Namely, this means inside the genjutsu, the physical world's common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible. Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster's hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem*, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches...!! Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful.

    Sharingan is the Kekkei Genkai of the clan labeled as the most powerful, the Uchiha clan. Even among those who have Sharingan, that jutsu cannot be operated without having Mangekyou, which is its culminating point. Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors... And even then, exclusively the elite shinobi who have reached particularly high degrees of skillfulness. One could say this is truly a God-given jutsu solely allowed to those blessed with Uchiha blood and prodigious aptitudes.

    Captions

    -An inner hell as eternal as Heaven and Earth. The grip held onto the principles of all creation thoroughly annihilates one's heart and soul!!

    -The ultimate doujutsu made possible only by Mangekyou Sharingan.

    Picture comments

    -The moment the adversary is exposed to Mangekyou Sharingan, a strange realm as they've never seen before extends before their eyes. In there, the world's principles themselves obey the caster's beck and call.

    -Since attacks in the spiritual realm have no power to physically wound or kill, it bestows an unfathomable amount of mental damage.

    -Only those of Uchiha blood... Does it mean only Sasuke has a chance to break a Tsukuyomi?

    -The phenomena that happen inside of the mental realm are entirely the caster's to command. Which is to say, the images shown or the actions taken can be changed according to the opponent in order to yield maximum efficiency.*阿鼻叫喚 (abikyoukan) translates as "agonizing cries", or "pandemonium". It's also a specific name for a couple of hellish realms in Buddhism. Try Wikipedia or Onmark Productions for better info.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    You blindly thought infinite tsukiyomi is better genjutsu then itachi's tsukiyomi but it isn't.



    you can clearly see, madara cannot perform his infinite tsukiyomi without getting connected to gedou mazo.
    that is why he needs the juubi to use infinite tsukiyomi.
    He needs the Juubi, because he intends to cast it over the planet. It's a superior jutsu by default.





    It's like comparing the Kyubi's Bijudama and the Juubi's, or Kakashi's Raikiri and Sasuke's Kirin. It is simply far ahead of anything a normal human is capable of doing. The point is that despite such a massive difference in power, Madara's proposed genjutsu is not called "Perfect Tsukuyomi". It's "Infinite Tsukuyomi".


    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    Chapter 560. The very first skill he uses is Katon...and it's HUGE.
    He used a Katon jutsu. I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be.
     
         
    Last edited by BlinkST; 01-22-2013 at 06:34 PM.

  18. #43
    Academy Student
    Status
    Fantastic Mr Fox is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    IF sasuke work more in his genjutsu , still he wont be able to get perfect tsukiyomi, because kishi don't want it this way.
    You know sometimes it is born talent. Everyone have their own specialty.
    Look hard work sure helps but if something isn't your specialty , you can't do much about it.
    Sasuke must have worked hard in genjutsu , that is why, he could defeat itachi's tsukiyomi and obtained tsukiyomi after getting MS.
    But Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu, that is why he could not only summon it, but extinguish and control it. He mastered amaterasu.
    First, you can't say what Kishi wants, because you're not Kishi.
    Second, Saskue is good at Amaterasu because he spent all his time as a kid practicing the katon jutsu, which is very similar (since we're talking about creating balls of fire here)
    Third, you're forgetting about the time factor. Itachi is 5 years older than saskue. That's 5 years of practice, which is why Itachi's tsukiyomi is stronger. Who even know how old Madara is?? He's had decades upon decades to master susano. That's why his is more powerful. NOT because he's born with it.
    Respectfully, you're wrong. Yes, people are born with talent. They UNDERSTAND certain things better. But that doesn't mean others can't achieve the same great heights through practice. Let me remind you that Beethoven was deaf.
     
         

  19. #44
    पागल आशिक Frikid's Avatar
    Status
    Frikid is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking for sensei :T_T:
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by veggetta13 View Post
    Remember the t-shirt OVA, on which Naruto y suppossedly having his last match vs sasuke?
    I believe they will actually exchange a lot of punches, i woulkdn´t know how to explain why i think trhat will happen but it´s quite a hunch. kishi sort of respects or shows signs of it towards his fav characters by giving them long punch fight, very taijutsu style
    didn't watch it. =/
    but since its ova , it is supposed to be non-cannon. And if you read the manga, you would see most of the chapter were DBZ,you know bijju dama spam, bijju beam spam so i don't think kishi really likes taijutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kage Bumchin View Post
    Hmm but the thing is... Itachi didn't have EMS so your logic is flawed
    Even without EMS, his tsukiyomi was superior than madara or sasuke.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkST View Post
    No evidence of that.

    The databook description and Itachi's own words plainly state that Tsukuyomi's characteristics are not unique to him. They are a trait of the jutsu. It works to their specifications.




    He needs the Juubi, because he intends to cast it over the planet. It's a superior jutsu by default.
    Onoki easily broke the genjutsu madara used on raikage, say if itachi was the one who put genjutsu on raikage, raikage would have received days of pain... and raikage wouldn't be able to stand after that...





    It's like comparing the Kyubi's Bijudama and the Juubi's, or Kakashi's Raikiri and Sasuke's Kirin. It is simply far ahead of anything a normal human is capable of doing. The point is that despite such a massive difference in power, Madara's proposed genjutsu is not called "Perfect Tsukuyomi". It's "Infinite Tsukuyomi".


    Its quality over quantity. madara can't control time in his genjutsu, itachi can.
    madara says he need the juubi to cast it on multiple people While itachi can actually cast his genjutsu on multiple people, even shikaku said so.
    And again don't even bother comparing itachi and madara in terms of genjutsu, its like comparing amaterasu and normal katon, function is the same but effect of amaterasu is much deeper(same as effect of itachi's tsukiyomi is much deeper).
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantastic Mr Fox View Post
    First, you can't say what Kishi wants, because you're not Kishi.
    Second, Saskue is good at Amaterasu because he spent all his time as a kid practicing the katon jutsu, which is very similar (since we're talking about creating balls of fire here)
    Third, you're forgetting about the time factor. Itachi is 5 years older than saskue. That's 5 years of practice, which is why Itachi's tsukiyomi is stronger. Who even know how old Madara is?? He's had decades upon decades to master susano. That's why his is more powerful. NOT because he's born with it.
    Respectfully, you're wrong. Yes, people are born with talent. They UNDERSTAND certain things better. But that doesn't mean others can't achieve the same great heights through practice. Let me remind you that Beethoven was deaf.
    @bolded part,
    sorry to say, but this is a harsh reality. some people just can't do certain things.you cannot expect naruto to work hard in genjutsu and surpass sasuke in it, because it isn't his thing.
    When itachi used tsukiyomi on kakashi, he was same age as sasuke so you can't say that.(and itachi perfected his tsukiyomi most probably around age of 13-16.)
    Also Age means nothing in naruto, obito a student, went toe to toe with his sensei at just age of 14 or 15. Current naruto and sasuke surpass all of their sensei.
     
         

  20. #45
    Undefined BlinkST's Avatar
    Status
    BlinkST is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Genius eyes of a generation
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    Onoki easily broke the genjutsu madara used on raikage, say if itachi was the one who put genjutsu on raikage, raikage would have received days of pain... and raikage wouldn't be able to stand after that...
    You're not the author, so don't waste my time with imaginary scenarios, or act as if Itachi's genjutsu has never been broken by a character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    Its quality over quantity. madara can't control time in his genjutsu, itachi can.
    The manga and databook made it clear that the "Tsukuyomi world" is a jutsu that bends to the will of the user, and Itachi's control was never stated to be something unique to him. Excuse me when I say the Einstein in me would have to assume that if Madara intends to cast an Infinite Tsukuyomi supported by the Juubi's chakra, then that by definition means he has control over the "time".

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    madara says he need the juubi to cast it on multiple people While itachi can actually cast his genjutsu on multiple people, even shikaku said so.
    Madara needs the Juubi and the satellite to cast his genjutsu over the planet. There's a big difference between casting genjutsu over a few people VS. 6 billion or so.


    Casting genjutsu over multiple people is something even Kakashi can do.


    Do not waste my time with obviously flimsy "arguments".
     
         

  21. #46
    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
    Status
    Floydical is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In Your Blind Spot
    Posts
    2,869
    Post Thanks / Like
    chillin
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    First of all, Madara has not been confirmed to have Amaterasu or Tsukyomi. We also know for a fact that Sasuke does not have Tsukyomi, since he did not use it when freeing Itachi from Kabuto's genjutsu like Itachi did.

    Second, Madara referred to the use and legend of Susanoo to be attached to more than one person. He stated that "legend says that once you see PS you die". This is something that gives indication that it extends past him and is not unique to him.

    Lastly, we have seen vast improvements and changes to Sasuke's Susanoo over hundreds of chapters. There is very little chance, imo, that his Susanoo will stop evolving entirely. It will obviously get more powerful, but not likely as powerful as Madara's got.
     
         

  22. #47
    Undefined BlinkST's Avatar
    Status
    BlinkST is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Genius eyes of a generation
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    First of all, Madara has not been confirmed to have Amaterasu or Tsukyomi.
    The description of Susanoo in the databook would stipulate that Madara is in possession of the two required techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    We also know for a fact that Sasuke does not have Tsukyomi, since he did not use it when freeing Itachi from Kabuto's genjutsu like Itachi did.
    What that shows is that Itachi was being over-protective of Sasuke as usual, and it was not necessary to use Tsukuyomi to begin with. Unless you think that generic genjutsu is just as powerful as Tsukuyomi, as they both accomplished the same task.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    Second, Madara referred to the use and legend of Susanoo to be attached to more than one person. He stated that "legend says that once you see PS you die". This is something that gives indication that it extends past him and is not unique to him.
    The same has been indicated of Tsukuyomi [When Kakashi fought Itachi] and Amaterasu [When Sasuke fought Itachi].
     
         

  23. #48
    Varrah's Avatar
    Status
    Varrah is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    926
    Post Thanks / Like
    ...
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Strongly disagree, Masashi has been setting up Sasuke to manipulate Susanoo: an enormous chakra construction, in a similar fashion to how he applies Keitai Henka to Chidori and Amaterasu—which he created new and various techniques derived from these abilities. [1][2]

    One can already imagine the abilities of his Eien no Mangekyō Sharingan, and the conjunctions of other techniques: such as Tsukuyomi, supplementing his other abilities.


    And as far as Tsukuyomi is concerned, Susanoo would suggests Madara has it.

    *insert obvious scans and the likes*
     
         
    Last edited by Varrah; 02-03-2013 at 06:36 PM.

  24. #49
    पागल आशिक Frikid's Avatar
    Status
    Frikid is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking for sensei :T_T:
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlinkST View Post
    You're not the author, so don't waste my time with imaginary scenarios, or act as if Itachi's genjutsu has never been broken by a character.


    The manga and databook made it clear that the "Tsukuyomi world" is a jutsu that bends to the will of the user, and Itachi's control was never stated to be something unique to him. Excuse me when I say the Einstein in me would have to assume that if Madara intends to cast an Infinite Tsukuyomi supported by the Juubi's chakra, then that by definition means he has control over the "time".


    Madara needs the Juubi and the satellite to cast his genjutsu over the planet. There's a big difference between casting genjutsu over a few people VS. 6 billion or so.


    Casting genjutsu over multiple people is something even Kakashi can do.


    I will keep this simple.

    Madara requires gedou to cast genjutsu on whole earth, without it he cannot obviously do that, so it isn't the best example to prove his genjutsu as better.

    "ïnfinite" tsukiyomi does not mean that madara can control time in his tsukiyomi, it simply shows, that juubi has huge amounts of chakra that is why it can make that genjutsu go on forever.
    (well it isn't practically possible for a genjutsu to be "ön" forever, but i think juubi can replenish more chakra than the chakra madara uses while the genjutsu is "on"")

    It has never been stated by madara or anyone else, that he can control time in his genjutsu or to be more accurate, tsukiyomi.

    Madara was famous in his time, and even now , people get afraid when his name is involved in a plan. But still he was never known for his genjutsu , he was known for his susano though, it was said that anyone who has seen it dies.

    One more thing i want to point out is that, remember when shikaku was told that random people are attacking the alliance, he first thought that itachi is making them do it with genjutsu.
    Now the point is,according to his knowledge, madara was also alive at that point of time but still the first person that came to shikaku's mind was itachi.



    By this, we can clearly see, itachi was known for his genjutsu, and when it comes to genjutsu, the first guy that comes to mind is itachi and NOT madara himself.
    --
    Also When madara attacked raikage with his genjutsu, raikage quickly realized that he was under a genjutsu despite of not being a sensor and onoki break him out of it fairly easily.

    IT took two people who were medical ninjas, to break naruto out of a regular genjutsu casted by 30% itachi.And also naruto never even realized it , till itachi made it ridiculously obvious.

    Your move now .
    ----
    Well i have posted more than enough evidence to prove why itachi is superior in genjutsu and why he have the upper hand, when it comes to tsukiyomi.
    I think i covered all the points but i would recheck it later..
    remind me if i missed something out...
    And oh yea, please do not talk about wasting time, since you are on discussion site of a manga .
    its like saying "don't waste my time" ön Facebook , lol.


    And @varrah, will respond soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varrah View Post
    [INDENT][FONT=Candara]Strongly disagree, Masashi has been setting up Sasuke to manipulate Susanoo: an enormous chakra construction, in a similar fashion to how he applies Keitai Henka to Chidori and Amaterasu—which he created new and various techniques derived from these abilities. [1][2]

    One can already imagine the abilities of his Eien no Mangekyō Sharingan, and the conjunctions of other techniques: such as Tsukuyomi, supplementing his other abilities.
    Look i am saying sasuke isn't gonna obain PS aka perfect susano.
    He would surely get susanoo upgrades, but it wont be really susano upgrades, like he would get amaterasu sword/shield and some other OP weapon/thing, but it can't be considered as perfect susano , since there is only one PS, which is madara's.
    And these upgrades would NOT reflect his mastery at susano but more of his mastery at other things like amaterasu.

    And here is what kishi shows us first time we see Sasuke's EMS :
     
         
    Last edited by Frikid; 02-03-2013 at 08:53 PM.

  25. #50
    Varrah's Avatar
    Status
    Varrah is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    926
    Post Thanks / Like
    ...
     

    Re: Sasuke will not get PS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid

    Look i am saying sasuke isn't gonna obain PS aka perfect susano.
    He would surely get susanoo upgrades, but it wont be really susano upgrades, like he would get amaterasu sword/shield and some other OP weapon/thing, but it can't be considered as perfect susano , since there is only one PS, which is madara's.
    And these upgrades would NOT reflect his mastery at susano but more of his mastery at other things like amaterasu.

    And here is what kishi shows us first time we see Sasuke's EMS :


    The definition of Perfect Susano'o can be alter to fit its state. Sasuke manipulating Susano'o, a chakra construction, in a potentially more sophisticated design than Madara's does signify his mastery of the technique.

    It's just a matter of perceptual impressions of quality.
     
         

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •