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  1. #221
    Youngest KAGE Priyam Bhowmick's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Nice work.*****. Even I had not though about it
     
         

  2. #222
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Heyyyyyy guys, remember me? This question has still not really been addressed.

    Also, as to the whole "Kamui vs Yata Mirror" argument, I'm going to side with thegame on this one. Yata can certainly block projectiles, or anything that is MOVING towards the target. That's why it should be able to block astral attacks such as Gedo Mazou's soul dragon. However, with Kamui and Amaterasu, there is no passage. The jutsu's simply appear at a point. I do not see a reason why Kamui or Amaterasu can not be used on Itachi while's he's inside Susanoo. The idea behind that is that there is nothing for the Shield to block. In fact, it's transparency works against it in this case. The attacks simply appear on the other side of the shield, so they should be functional counters.

    Like amaterasu, Kamui does move in a path,the both are just so fast, kishi doesn't even show the path movement anymore



    It happened when he was sending it to Deidara's arms as welll

    I think this would end up a matter of if Yata mirror responds on its own to attacks, or if the wielder has to change its attributes.. The thing about kamui is that its an invisible attack
     
         

  3. #223
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSeed View Post
    Nah , its just hyperbole.
    First if you look for other scans that zetsu seems he ddnt know what he is talking about
    Second if his defense is the best how come kishi always hype gaara, sasuke, third raikage who got the strongest shield
    Third every jutsu has a weakness as stated by itachi. So that invincible was already denied
    Fourth let say he is invincible for how long? 10 secs lol after that wut happen.?
    Anything you took for an example is hype, and only hype, as Kishimoto uses the term perfect for anything what is supposed to be a great offense or defense by peoples believes. In this case however, black Zetsu explicitly said, that Yatas mirror is a spiritual weapon, able to deflect any technique, what also was implied in the databook. While several defenses were merely called perfect due to their toughness by people who acknowledged it, Yatas mirror was explicitly said to be a weapon before all attacks lose their effect and make its user together with Totsukas blade completely invincible. This isn't mere hype given by Shinobi who believe in the strength of a certain thing but by black Zetsu, who hides Madaras knowledge and the very databook, which talks about Yatas mirror, how it works and which limits exist - none.
     
         

  4. #224
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by ' ~ Dantee ~ ' View Post
    It's astral... Anticipation of an attack is always part of shielding from one. The same can be said for any attack a user can't anticipate. If we're talking about Kamui vs Yatamirroe; Yata repels it.
    Can you show me where it says kamui is astral? it was to my understanding that kamui is a space and time jutsu able to manipulate space and time. even if yata can defend against it, wouldnt you still be able to use kamui on the user inside susanoo? making yata useless
     
         

  5. #225
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    ^ anything space time related falls under astral.. google its definition
     
         

  6. #226
    Senior Member Akatsuki wise guy's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Nice thread as always + rep.
     
         

  7. #227
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    jinton, meteor, kamui, tbb explosion, chibaku tensei, perfect susanoo >>> yata mirror
     
         

  8. #228
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    ^ anything space time related falls under astral.. google its definition
    Narutopedia definition:
    Space–Time Ninjutsu (時空間忍術, Jikūkan Ninjutsu; Literally meaning "Time–Space Ninja Techniques")[1] are techniques that allow the users to manipulate the space–time continuum. By manipulating a specific point of space, the user can warp anything targeted into a dimensional void and teleport it to another location instantaneously. Minato Namikaze, Obito Uchiha, and Tobirama Senju are all noted as skilled users of space–time ninjutsu.


    Wiki Definition:
    In physics, spacetime (also space–time, space time or space–time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as existing in three dimensions and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions.


    Didnt know which one you would hold as evidence but neither definitions mention anything about s/t being "astral"

    btw i couldnt find a good definition of the word astral so please if you have one you can show it to me
     
         
    Last edited by Draphsin; 01-23-2013 at 03:27 PM.

  9. #229
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    Narutopedia definition:
    Space–Time Ninjutsu (時空間忍術, Jikūkan Ninjutsu; Literally meaning "Time–Space Ninja Techniques")[1] are techniques that allow the users to manipulate the space–time continuum. By manipulating a specific point of space, the user can warp anything targeted into a dimensional void and teleport it to another location instantaneously. Minato Namikaze, Obito Uchiha, and Tobirama Senju are all noted as skilled users of space–time ninjutsu.



    Wiki Definition:
    In physics, spacetime (also space–time, space time or space–time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as existing in three dimensions and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions.


    Didnt know which one you would hold as evidence but neither definitions mention anything about s/t being "astral"
    Wiki states a fact.

    narutopedia is entirely fan made.
     
         

  10. #230
    第五世代 Draphsin's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Luck View Post
    Wiki states a fact.

    narutopedia is entirely fan made.
    thats besides the point, neither definitions mention anything about spacetime being "astral"
     
         

  11. #231
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    Narutopedia definition:
    Space–Time Ninjutsu (時空間忍術, Jikūkan Ninjutsu; Literally meaning "Time–Space Ninja Techniques")[1] are techniques that allow the users to manipulate the space–time continuum. By manipulating a specific point of space, the user can warp anything targeted into a dimensional void and teleport it to another location instantaneously. Minato Namikaze, Obito Uchiha, and Tobirama Senju are all noted as skilled users of space–time ninjutsu.


    Wiki Definition:
    In physics, spacetime (also space–time, space time or space–time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as existing in three dimensions and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions.


    Didnt know which one you would hold as evidence but neither definitions mention anything about s/t being "astral"

    btw i couldnt find a good definition of the word astral so please if you have one you can show it to me
    here's a few
    adj. Having or carrying the characteristics of the astral plane. n. A frequency of time and space beyond the physical yet below the menta
    A dimension of reality that is one level above the mundane level. Also used to mean spiritual or metaphysical.
    home.earthlink.net/~wilhelmina_d/bos/dictionary.html
    (adj) Pertaining to psychic phenomena, that is, phenomena on the astral plane.
    designating or of a universal substance or dimension existing just beyond normal human perception.
    Get it yet? its an attack that isn't physical, or doesn't have a physical form... Just like Yatamirror.... Theoretically the only thing that would be capable of blocking a spiritual attack, is a spiritual defence......

    , the user can warp anything targeted into a dimensional void
    Narutopedia's definiton of sT

    Once the attack is dimension related.. once you EXCEED the normal human plane, you are entering astral territory
     
         

  12. #232
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Get it yet? its an attack that isn't physical, or doesn't have a physical form... Just like Yatamirror.... Theoretically the only thing that would be capable of blocking a spiritual attack, is a spiritual defence......

    Narutopedia's definiton of sT

    Once the attack is dimension related.. once you EXCEED the normal human plane, you are entering astral territory
    lol youre going on about some next level stuff...the only plane and i mean the only plane that mentions space and time is the physical plane so yeah maybe youre right about the dimension. obito's dimension could be an astral plane but space and time only exist in the physical plane and s/t is the manipulation of space and time so the susanoo itself will be physically manipulated and sent to the astral plane. That doesnt make it an astral attack.

    Edit: heres the definition of planes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(esotericism)
     
         

  13. #233
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    [QUOTE=KingHashirama;9976023]It can't..... Unless it turns on that side, at the right time..... Thats what happened in the pics you showed. Yata doesn't have a 360 protection zone.[/QUOTE

    its not like itachi wouldnt know someone was behind him
    Itachi is top 5 like it or not bro
     
         

  14. #234
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    lol youre going on about some next level stuff...the only plane and i mean the only plane that mentions space and time is the physical plane so yeah maybe youre right about the dimension. obito's dimension could be an astral plane but space and time only exist in the physical plane and s/t is the manipulation of space and time so the susanoo itself will be physically manipulated and sent to the astral plane. That doesnt make it an astral attack.

    Edit: heres the definition of planes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(esotericism)

    You don't get it,
    KAMUI , the attack itself, the little black hole like attack , Is NOT physical in any way..

    The definition of spiritual that applies to kamui?


    ]Lacking material body or form or substance; "spiritual beings"; "the vital transcendental soul belonging to the spiritual realm"

    KAMUI is a spiritual attack.. and YATA MIRROR is a spiritual shield..Both have NO physical form, what so ever

    Do you get where i'm going with this?

    according to the databook, yata mirror is protected from all following forms of attack.. PHYSICAL, MATERIAL, ASTRAL(aka spiritual) , and Ninjutsu
     
         
    Last edited by Owarij; 01-23-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  15. #235
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Luck View Post
    Wiki states a fact.

    narutopedia is entirely fan made.
    wiki, meaning that anyone can edit any unprotected page and improve articles immediately for all readers.

    both are technically fan made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    You don't get it,
    KAMUI , the attack itself, the little black hole like attack , Is NOT physical in any way..

    The definition of spiritual that applies to kamui?




    KAMUI is a spiritual attack.. and YATA MIRROR is a spiritual shield..Both have NO physical form, what so ever

    Do you get where i'm going with this?
    kamui is a spiritual attack?lol thats funny
     
         

  16. #236
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    kamui is a spiritual attack?lol thats funny

    You're thinking of another meaning of spiritual ,aka relating to religion, the databook definition is something that has no physical form, possibly existing between two realms
     
         

  17. #237
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    Susano'o is able to phase through the ground. But that isn't the point. How is Itachi going to get under the ground amidst his attack? Also Susano'o typically has to be either in skeletal form (without the flesh) or a higher iteration in order to utilize the Mirror/Sword (to hold it). Madara was only able to phase under the ground due to the usage of the Wood Clone and the fact that his Susano's arm was only present, not the entire or partial manifestation like Madara's was when he used it against Tsunade (only the arm/rib cage was used).

    You're also overlooking the main element that made Wood Clone so deadly - its unpredictability. Remember, Madara said only he was able to anticipate it. Would Itachi know to counter from under the ground? Would Itachi be able to detect it? Is Itachi's Susano'o able to even use the Yata Mirror while being underground?

    I don't think it's very much of a toss up analyzing the mechanics of the respective techniques--in fact, if anything the odds are pretty much skewed in favor of Wood Clone.
    That is simply untrue. Why would Orochimaru want the legendary weapons if you need Susanoo to wield them?
     
         

  18. #238
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    That is simply untrue. Why would Orochimaru want the legendary weapons if you need Susanoo to wield them?

    He doesn't need susanno to wield them, they existed before madara who had the first ms...
    there are legends of it and people deny their existence. As I stated, they have no true form, which is why the shield is seen becoming many different forms
     
         

  19. #239
    第五世代 Draphsin's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    You're thinking of another meaning of spiritual ,aka relating to religion, the databook definition is something that has no physical form, possibly existing between two realms
    It physically(and i say this term loosely) manipulates the shape of the target. You dont get it, yata mirror would be physically distorted, think of kamui like a sealing jutsu. Youre right kamui isnt a physical attack, its something completely different that cant even be quantified as "physical" or "spiritual" or even "astral".
     
         

  20. #240
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    It physically(and i say this term loosely) manipulates the shape of the target. You dont get it, yata mirror would be physically distorted, think of kamui like a sealing jutsu. Youre right kamui isnt a physical attack, its something completely different that cant even be quantified as "physical" or "spiritual" or even "astral".

    Urm no.. its not something greater, there is nothing greater, every attack falls under a particular category. Kamui and gedo mazo's soul dragon both do not exist simply in a physical state.... Once again, you would need something that exists on the same level as those formentioned jutsu, to counter them... which is exactly what the mirror is ... Kamui won't "distort" the mirror as the mirror is capable of producing attributes or characteristics to completely render the incoming ability useless...
     
         

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