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  1. #61
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    This is a hard one to digest given the abilities of Dust Release. Though you provide facts on Yata all you've said it's still only speculation...there other factors to consider before saying it can counter jinton.
    Like? almost nothing ive posted is speculation as there are manga scans of yata mirror growing in size and shape
     
         

  2. #62
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Like? almost nothing ive posted is speculation as there are manga scans of yata mirror growing in size and shape
    Speculation that it could counter Jinton. Firstly therer are different variations of Jinton and the speed of the technique is the biggest factor. The Cubic jinton would cover Itachi's entire susano'o in a blitz of a second..it's arguable if he'd get Yata to completely shield him before Jinton gets there.
     
         
    Last edited by Waltz; 01-22-2013 at 04:29 AM.

  3. #63
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    The Cubic jinton would cover Itachi's entire susano'o in a blitz of a second.
    I covered speed of the shape manipulation , it apparently happens instantly , no timed growing...moments before the paper bombs on the kunai exploded, yata mirror increased in size instantly

    why wont it increase instantly for jinton? it almost has the slowest cast(charge) time in the manga
     
         

  4. #64
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    Its a difference in opinion but i would still doubt that naruto could anticipate itachi even if he collaborated with kyuubi. Itachi is a spot on person and from majority of his fight's (disregardaing his Training-session fight with sasuke) when he takes out his Doujtusu techniques it is to utilize them immediately.

    The kyuubi, much less naruto wouldn't have intel on itachi's tech's.
    It's not merely a matter of anticipation. I doubt Kyuubi would have intel on Itachi's techs as well, but that doesn't mean they still can't counter it. I was giving the benefit of doubt since the topic I'm debating isn't directly related to this subject so I'm not trying to make anything come off as definitely conclusive or anything like that.

    Speed, as explained, would give Itachi trouble due to the fact that Itachi has limited stamina (and even more limited stamina if this is the sick Itachi) and MS has a heavy toll on the user unlike the EMS.

    The Yata Mirror can potentially expand, but there's no proof that it can expand nimbly or faster than someone speed-savvy like BM Naruto.
     
         

  5. #65
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    I covered speed of the shape manipulation , it apparently happens instantly , no timed growing...moments before the paper bombs on the kunai exploded, yata mirror increased in size instantly

    why wont it increase instantly for jinton? it almost has the slowest cast(charge) time in the manga
    Yata is no doubt controlled by itachi and he knows the extents of a paper bomb. Am not saying he's in control of it's manipulative abilities but apparently it extends based on the users anticipation of the attack other wise it would extend equally everytime. Itachi could make a bad judgement on jintons initial size in the palm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    It's not merely a matter of anticipation. I doubt Kyuubi would have intel on Itachi's techs as well, but that doesn't mean they still can't counter it. I was giving the benefit of doubt since the topic I'm debating isn't directly related to this subject so I'm not trying to make anything come off as definitely conclusive or anything like that.

    Speed, as explained, would give Itachi trouble due to the fact that Itachi has limited stamina (and even more limited stamina if this is the sick Itachi) and MS has a heavy toll on the user unlike the EMS.

    The Yata Mirror can potentially expand, but there's no proof that it can expand nimbly or faster than someone speed-savvy like BM Naruto.
    Valid and vital points, i didn't look at it that way. Counters are possible due to itachi's limitations..that might just be naruto's advantage.
     
         

  6. #66
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Yata is no doubt controlled by itachi
    I dont know about that one, not really confirmed...the way the databook describes it, it seems like the mirror itself changes its properties etc based on the attack coming, From reading, I don't believe it was hinted that its up to wielder
     
         

  7. #67
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Wow Thread... Hattttts of to your work man...You rock...
     
         

  8. #68
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    I dont know about that one, not really confirmed...the way the databook describes it, it seems like the mirror itself changes its properties etc based on the attack coming, From reading, I don't believe it was hinted that its up to wielder
    Even if, Yata adjusting to cubic Jinton is still questionable via speed being that both seem to be "instantaneous".
     
         

  9. #69
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    I dont know about that one, not really confirmed...the way the databook describes it, it seems like the mirror itself changes its properties etc based on the attack coming, From reading, I don't believe it was hinted that its up to wielder
    In that case, Susano'o primary weakness would be ground-based attacks.

    Some possible ways Yata Mirror could be countered: Exponential speed (i.e. FTG), Sand/Dust (a la Gaara and his father), Wood Clone, Kamui, Dust Release, etc.

    Would have really been intriguing to see Yata Mirror's full extent. Too bad it's probably no longer in existence.
     
         
    Last edited by Forget Me Not; 01-22-2013 at 05:14 AM.

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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    In that case, Susano'o primary weakness would be ground-based attacks.

    Some possible ways Yata Mirror could be countered: Exponential speed (i.e. FTG), Sand/Dust (a la Gaara and his father), Wood Clone, Kamui, Dust Release, etc.

    Would have really been intriguing to see Yata Mirror's full extent. Too bad it's probably no longer in existence.
    Maybe kishi will give it somemore screen time through sasuke or atleast incorporated its abilities to his. Personally, I'd prefer him stressing on totsuka's peircing ability.
     
         

  11. #71
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    we all know that TOTSUKA and YATA MIRROR can solo the nagato,minato,madara,hiruzen and 10 tails
     
         

  12. #72
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    We saw the Tosuka blade in action twice what is there to debate about ? Upon contact the target is sealed forever.
     
         

  13. #73
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I hear you loud and clear.A majority on this base confuse preference and opinion with facts.Thank you for bringing this to light.
    It was very detailed and carefully explains it. + rep

    Haven't seen a good thread in days
     
         

  14. #74
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    In that case, Susano'o primary weakness would be ground-based attacks.

    Some possible ways Yata Mirror could be countered: Exponential speed (i.e. FTG), Sand/Dust (a la Gaara and his father), Wood Clone, Kamui, Dust Release, etc.

    Would have really been intriguing to see Yata Mirror's full extent. Too bad it's probably no longer in existence.
    Umm jinton can't break down a ethereal shield into bare molecules .....its ethereal.
     
         

  15. #75
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I suppose to me the biggest question is that which PuppyDogGeneral already mentioned: who is in control of Yata Mirror? Is the Mirror reacting on its own to oncoming attacks, or is Itachi himself altering it's size to defend himself? I believe it is the latter. Why? Because if it were the Yata Mirror reacting to oncoming attacks, my belief is that it would expand to the perfect size to block the attack, and nothing more. However, in the scan you provided where Sasuke throws the paper bombs attached to kunai, the shield expands more than necessary. This is, of course, mere speculation, but it seems to me as though it reacts according to the user, and so if the user does not see an attack (this relates to the speed argument), then the shield will also not react. Similarly, the user would have to see an attack coming to block it. This seems to make more sense in my opinion.
     
         

  16. #76
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaBossX View Post
    dust release destroys in an atomic level. susanoo is not physical
    Oonoki just did Dust release against all of those wood clones Susanoo's and destroyed them all. Dust Release WILL destroy Itachi's Susanoo.
     
         

  17. #77
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    That man Itachi is GREAT. With this info wouldnt that kind of make him best char in narutoverse? Seems unbeatable with Tsukuyomi Yata Mirror, Intelligence, Totsuka blade, amatersu, Susanoo' and yeah everyone knows his arsenal
     
         

  18. #78
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by The Infernal Spirit View Post
    Umm jinton can't break down a ethereal shield into bare molecules .....its ethereal.
    No one said anything about breaking it down. I meant due to the radius of the technique it could probably hit Itachi and disintegrate him. It could also probably dismantle Susano'o in the process.

    And by the way, Susano'o is indeed physical. Anything that has mass, can be touched or felt, is by definition physical. The Yata Mirror is not physical. But Susano'o is, and that could just be the underlying weakness.
     
         

  19. #79
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
    Spoken like a rational human being. Besides Itachi is dead so the Yata mirror is lost.
    maybe sasuke got it with itachis eyes! :D
     
         

  20. #80
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by iHateFanBoys View Post
    That man Itachi is GREAT. With this info wouldnt that kind of make him best char in narutoverse? Seems unbeatable with Tsukuyomi Yata Mirror, Intelligence, Totsuka blade, amatersu, Susanoo' and yeah everyone knows his arsenal
    No. All of the things you stated have weaknesses, as does Itachi. He isn't invincible, just one of the strongest shinobi ever. Top 10 at the very least.
     
         

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