Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

[Megatolium]

Lovely theory

Btw, Yata Mirror Isn't invincible simply because Itachi has a chakra limit. If he begins to run low he will have no choice but to deactivate Susanoo.

And another thing, light and sound. As long as light can reach Itachi he can be affected by Genjutsu, as long he can hear he can be affected by intense vibrations in the air, even Genjutsu utilizing sound.

Itachi said every jutsu has a weakness.

[Owarij]

I didn't want this to be about Itachi specifically, just yata mirror
..i'M Aware of Itachi's stamina issues

I suppose to me the biggest question is that which PuppyDogGeneral already mentioned: who is in control of Yata Mirror? Is the Mirror reacting on its own to oncoming attacks, or is Itachi himself altering it's size to defend himself? I believe it is the latter. Why? Because if it were the Yata Mirror reacting to oncoming attacks, my belief is that it would expand to the perfect size to block the attack, and nothing more. However, in the scan you provided where Sasuke throws the paper bombs attached to kunai, the shield expands more than necessary. This is, of course, mere speculation, but it seems to me as though it reacts according to the user, and so if the user does not see an attack (this relates to the speed argument), then the shield will also not react. Similarly, the user would have to see an attack coming to block it. This seems to make more sense in my opinion.

I guess its a reasonable point, on who exactly is in control

Will answer more questions in the thread later

[Délta]

Yata mirror ftw

[Exaar]

So basically, Edo itachi with Full susanoo + Yata is completely invinceible? .

You know kishi be fanboying -_-

[~Supreme Itachi~]

YEAHHHH

SOLO king solo's yet again

as expected from one of ITACHI'S LEGENDARY FANS

[Blaze Release]

Seems like you might need a little hand there. First of all i support the fact that everything said about the legendary weapons are hyperboles and this isn't the first time that kishi has exaggerated. Also state that itachi isn't invincible as there is no such thing in naruto. However this hyperbole which relates to the weapons to an extent are viable simple because there are not normal weapons.

We have seen hyperboles gives to other weapons like the 7 swordsmen weapons. True these weapons are special but its fair to say, compared to a weapon with a tag 'legendary' they pail in comparison. Its never stated that these weapons belong to rikudou sennin like the other weapons we have seen that has been attributed to him and i don't believe there are his weapons because his weapons have a unique and set look about them. The weapons itachi wields are too different and unique to compare with rikudou's. What im trying to say is that i believe there are other special people in naruto that might rival rikuodu or might be slightly less power than him and its them who's wielded these weapons.

Anway ive already created a thread about size maniuplation here [1]. Yes i believe either swords can be wielded with human hands. However you talk of shape manipulation, something i could've talked about however i didn't but its possible. First is that the weapons are ethereal, meaning they have no set form. Having no set form means that it can change size and possible shape, but also it cane become tangible (blocked hydrao's head, kusanai sword and bombs) but also remain intangible.

We have seen various other weapons which has shown both size and shape manipulation. First is enma when it transform's into Kongonyoi. In this form it has shown both shape and size manipulation. Size manipulation [1]. Its length can not only increase but enma can manifest parts of its body. It has shown as shape manipulation here [1].

Peopl here do not know this but the Totsuka sword is not a counter to oro's sword of kusanagi but rather its a variate of it. Now people do not know that oro's kusanagi sword has shown us both shape and size manipulation. Example the sword can turn into a snake and go back to oro, this is shape manipulation [1]. Similar it has shown us size manipulation [1]

So we have seen enma show shape and size manipulation but also oro's kusunagi sword demonstrate a similar feat.
Every stated from the db portrays either of itachi's weapons to be able to do something similar and infact they have. Owarij has covered some points and the link i uploaded also covered some points. However ill cut more specific pages from the manga.

I will also demonstrated 2 possible size changes that both weapons have shown that has been ignored. The first is the totsuka sword. Note the length it was in here. Because it was in close proximity with orocmiaru's hydra its best for it to resort to short sword because that is what is needed in close proximity;

Now note the length it increaes into to catch orochimaru;

Same thing can be said aout the nagato scenario, it looks like the swords size can increase if needed to catch a target from a distance;

There is a clear length fluctuation with the sword if needs it be.

Similar thing can be said about the mirror. In usually in a cirlce;

However on a page later, it becomes a semi circle;

Obviously this is just a thoery however from whative shown you, i believe the sword has shown a decrease in length in close range and an increase in length in long range. Similarly i believe ive shown you the mirror in its circle form, but also in its semi circle form. It is very possible that, size manipulation is there and may not even be limited to this.

.

So yes everything supports tangibility and intangibility but also size and possible shape manipulation.
However i believe it does more than that. People usually only ninjutsu based attack though the db entry and even manga scans disagree. I believe it does more, i believe one of the abilities it can do is use the opponent's attack against them therefore its void. People usually state well if an opponent uses fire, it will change to water and i agree with this. However i believe it could do more and again ill upload a previous post.

We have seen jinton destroy susano that is cannon its a fact. However whether onoki or mu can produce a jinton big enough to fully engulf a full armoured susano i dont know. If they do it will surely require a considerable amount of chakra. I agree with arcane angel that it either produce a jinton big enough to engulf a full armoured susano, only the mirror will remain.

However if either produce jinton on a smaller scale, lets say something like this [1]. That size jinton obviously isn't bigger than a full susano and neither is it bigger than the yata mirror. If this size jinton hit the surface of the yata mirror like [1] I believe nothing will happen to the yata mirror for various reasons.

Firstly is that there is a misconception that it blocks only ninjutsu and people have put ninjutsu into the 5 nature and not kg. Now im not saying the yata mirror can produce kg technique's as ill explain later. In the DB dictionary it says the mirror can deflect [1].

Now given what has been said about the mirror from the db and manga but also hype of having the tag legendary but also oro searching for it states that its special. We know of oro's personality, he will not invest his time into something he doesn't believe will make him stronger. Now ill give two technique's from the manga that have the tag 'mirror' in them which have shown the ability to mirror or deflect an opponents technique.

Yagura's mirror technique did something that i believe the yata mirror could possible do. here [1, 2] As we saw it deflected naruto's rasengan and bee's knife.

Another technique is pain's mirror technique




If you note, both are mirror techniques in the sense that they can replicate the opponents technique use it against them therefore its void. Now its possible that the yata mirror gaining the tag mirror but also every said about it in the manga and DB, its very possible that it could do what they two techniques can do. Obviously im speculating however its possible

Do you think orochimaru who lust for power will not spend his time and by time there is an emphasis of searched for all his life [1]. If oro is searching for something he believes it will make hims tronger. If oro is searching for something for something his WHOLE LIFE he believes it would ridiculously make him stronger. The hype of the weapons are is not only because it has the tag legendary, but also because oro was looking for them

[Prince Charles]

The fact that the yata mirror takes the look and shape of a circular shield should be proof enough it can take form and chanage its attributes.

I cant remember specially but somewhere in the db said the yata mirror has no form i think, so like i said the fact that itachi made it change into the form of a circular shield should show that the mirror can take shape manipulation.

Just my 2 cents regarding the topic.

[jsrhoden]

Seems like you might need a little hand there. First of all i support the fact that everything said about the legendary weapons are hyperboles and this isn't the first time that kishi has exaggerated. Also state that itachi isn't invincible as there is no such thing in naruto. However this hyperbole which relates to the weapons to an extent are viable simple because there are not normal weapons.

We have seen hyperboles gives to other weapons like the 7 swordsmen weapons. True these weapons are special but its fair to say, compared to a weapon with a tag 'legendary' they pail in comparison. Its never stated that these weapons belong to rikudou sennin like the other weapons we have seen that has been attributed to him and i don't believe there are his weapons because his weapons have a unique and set look about them. The weapons itachi wields are too different and unique to compare with rikudou's. What im trying to say is that i believe there are other special people in naruto that might rival rikuodu or might be slightly less power than him and its them who's wielded these weapons.

Anway ive already created a thread about size maniuplation here [1]. Yes i believe either swords can be wielded with human hands. However you talk of shape manipulation, something i could've talked about however i didn't but its possible. First is that the weapons are ethereal, meaning they have no set form. Having no set form means that it can change size and possible shape, but also it cane become tangible (blocked hydrao's head, kusanai sword and bombs) but also remain intangible.

We have seen various other weapons which has shown both size and shape manipulation. First is enma when it transform's into Kongonyoi. In this form it has shown both shape and size manipulation. Size manipulation [1]. Its length can not only increase but enma can manifest parts of its body. It has shown as shape manipulation here [1].

Peopl here do not know this but the Totsuka sword is not a counter to oro's sword of kusanagi but rather its a variate of it. Now people do not know that oro's kusanagi sword has shown us both shape and size manipulation. Example the sword can turn into a snake and go back to oro, this is shape manipulation [1]. Similar it has shown us size manipulation [1]

So we have seen enma show shape and size manipulation but also oro's kusunagi sword demonstrate a similar feat.
Every stated from the db portrays either of itachi's weapons to be able to do something similar and infact they have. Owarij has covered some points and the link i uploaded also covered some points. However ill cut more specific pages from the manga.

.

So yes everything supports tangibility and intangibility but also size and possible shape manipulation.
However i believe it does more than that. People usually only ninjutsu based attack though the db entry and even manga scans disagree. I believe it does more, i believe one of the abilities it can do is use the opponent's attack against them therefore its void. People usually state well if an opponent uses fire, it will change to water and i agree with this. However i believe it could do more and again ill upload a previous post.

Do you think orochimaru who lust for power will not spend his time and by time there is an emphasis of searched for all his life [1]. If oro is searching for something he believes it will make hims tronger. If oro is searching for something for something his WHOLE LIFE he believes it would ridiculously make him stronger. The hype of the weapons are is not only because it has the tag legendary, but also because oro was looking for them

Another thing that is important is credibility. We can probably say with confidence that a weapon such as the Yata Mirror is as good as its hype given who has talked about it. Seeing as Black Zetsu has labelled it as a weapon which blocks anything, it would be fair to say that he's got quite a lot of knowledge on the subject, because Black Zetsu is a representation of Madara's will, and Madara is an Uchiha Veteran. In the context of the legendary swordsmen however, its evident that Suigetsu's ambition to join them may affect his perception on how powerful the swords actually are as during the battle he is clearly gloryfying them to some extent.

But you put it perfectly. No character is invincible.

[fastrthnwind]

I have taken a closer look at the pictures you described where yata mirror is shown covering itachi in many directions and inceasing and deceasing in size.

I believe that you have misinterpreted its movement and size in comparison to the susanoo as possible 360 degree protection when in actuality, its simply the chakra flames of the mirror itself being blown backwards as itachi causes the susanoo to push forward with the yata mirror to keep a strong and firm support of it in deflecting the explosion. There are even motion indicators as the yata mirror is moving forward.

You also say it can shrink and grow in size. Well the susanoo in general is bigger in its complete form than in its incomplete form with its head being above the yata mirror, so when the onslaught of attacks from the paper bomb had stopped, and itachi had been reduced to using its incomplete form due to chakra exhaustion, its head was slightly below the shield. You can even use its size ration in comparison to itachi if you wanted to.

[softkings]

It can't..... Unless it turns on that side, at the right time..... Thats what happened in the pics you showed. Yata doesn't have a 360 protection zone.

First when you shoot with Jinton it gets bigger and bigger in the flying phase - this is the time when the Yata Mirror can grow as big as it has to be to block the Jinton without the need to do a 360 protection zone

[minator93]

Nice thread and all, but one thing you must realise is that Kishi always like hyperboles in this manga. One day he says one thing and tomorrow you see the counter. Like he said Gaara's sand was the ultimate defense, yet Lee countered it. Like he said Susanoo was the ultimate defense, yet we saw that underground was the weakness. Like he says in his databook that Amaterasu burns at the same temperatur as sun, but we all know that it's impossible, or everyone around it would have been desintegrated in an instant.

If we go by that logic, must i say that Raikiri can pierce thru Yata mirror then? After all Raikiri's databook says it pierces thru everything:



Even Gai said it in the manga

If we go by the databook3, when Kakashi wasn't able to use his kamui perfectly, Kamui is the ultimate technique and against this technique no defense is possible(yata mirror included?)



On the second bold part, you even see him saying that there is no technique that can compete against this one. And it's validated when Kakashi said Kamui is unstoppable:



If it is true, does it mean that Kakashi is invincible right now?

I second this

Also Owari there's a fair amount of Speculation in your thread You have left a few openings that I caught after going through Episode 138. The Jinton still has a way to harm Itachi even with the Yata But that is a post for another time.

[~Supreme Itachi~]

oh look at above

poor minato fans arguing w/ the manga

ohh poor people POOR MINATO FANS ELITE

[jsrhoden]

oh look at above

poor minato fans arguing w/ the manga

ohh poor people POOR MINATO FANS ELITE

At least they're putting the work in with some decent arguements, your aim just seems to be provoking people. In a way you're actually giving the Itachi fanbase a bad name despite there actually being good points on this thread from Itachi fans

[MickNerks]

Nice Thread. Reputation comes toward you.

[AlexXx]

wow good thread. respect for itachi grew a bit but

it changes the shape at users will, what if someone really fast gets behind him before itachi even notice?
i mean itachi istn know because of his reflexes.

[VariaBossX]

Oonoki just did Dust release against all of those wood clones Susanoo's and destroyed them all. Dust Release WILL destroy Itachi's Susanoo.

so a woodstyle clone? that's why

[Phoenix110]

I didn't know the yata mirror was underrated but from my point of view since it can block all others it has to be powerful enough to block jinton

[Phoenix110]

I didn't know the yata mirror was underrated but from my point of view since it can block all attacks it has to be powerful enough to block jinton

[Zlad]

Doesn't mean he can beat those who are in the battlefield. Most people use Yata mirror as arguement if he is set up against Hashirama, Obito, it goes on.

[khaydz5]

We all know of the two legendary spiritual weapons that caused Black zetsu to consider Itachi an Invincible force...

Hyperbole? Yes, But there is truth to his words...First one must understand what a Spirtual weapon is... Answer? Noone knows.. according to zetsu it's a supernatural item.... Databook implies noone really know how or when exactly they appeared.. but the legends have been passed down for years

What should be noted is that is has NO true phyiscal form, meaning these weapons have no true shape, and could essentially become what shape or size the user wishes... They way we see them now is at a size fit for susanno, but when these weapons were found by Itachi, they wouldn't have been large, they could have been anything, maybe even the normal size of a katana and shield..

If you don't believe what i'm saying, Of course , I have proof , often overlooked

Here you see how yatta mirror is, a flat shield, a bit bigger than Itachi, but still smaller than susanno itself..


Sasuke then throws explosive kunai to cause and explosion

You can no see the shield has grown, as the head of susanno is no longer higher in the air

specifically talking about this


You also should note the sfx showing the mirror was shrinking after the attack..


Next feat of this? pretty obvious

If you don't see it


You clearly see it extended again, covering more in the back of itachi, which is not how it originally looked, considering its flat


Now I want you to pay CLOSE attention , to the last two pictures I posted, and realize that for this attack, Yata mirror has changed size and shape, and is now fully covering Susanno....

This means that no matter WHAT attack comes at Itachi, Yata mirror can Change not only its ELEMENTS, but its ATTRIBUTES , to deflect it.....

The databook even says this

Note that it changes its attributes and properties..


You should also be aware that yata mirror doesn't simply "block' all attacks.. It REFLECTS.. All attacks.. as stated like 500 times in the manga and databook..





MUU - Onooki

People, alot of people , have been putting Muu over Itachi simply because Jinton is a "360" thing.... they claim, that yata mirror and its frontward defence would not at all protect Itachi from the molecule disintegration..
Bullocks..

As Ive shown before, ANY incoming attack, would be countered by the mirror and reflected... even if yata mirror has to stretch in a 360 manner to do so , similar to what happened here


This isnt solely for Jinton....Any incoming taijutsu attack will be countered... yata mirror repelled Sasuke's and his kusunagi thrust....
People claim that A would be able to go behind yata mirror and attack.. Once again, this isn't a legendary spirtual item for crap and giggles..Like gaara's sand, the yata mirror protects the user from ANY attack



But how far can yata mirror really go?
Its not exactly clear, the databook mostly speaks of its impervious fortitude when pitted against jutsu

Material

Astral

Physical

and Ninjutsu

What I want you to focus on is the two bolded

as·tral
/ˈastrəl/
Adjective
Of or relating to a supposed nonphysical realm of existence in which the physical human body is said to have a counterpart.

what? : o, Databook implies that Yata mirror would even defend against non physical dimension related attacks? Attacks like Long ranged Kamui?

....That my friends is up to you to see and consider

Grossly underated spiritual items

EDIT

i

Another thing everyone should note is the sheer speed that the shape manipulation happens... The mirror moves from its small state to incredibly large withing milliseconds of the attack actually hitting

Inb4 Bogard, minator94 Soloking solos

fail thread. if you wanna base your "facts" on databook alone then kakashi's kamui can destroy this yata mirror with little effort. it was said that there is no defense against kamui.

kamui > yata mirror = yata mirror not invincible

simple.

[Prince of Persia TTT]

okay im sorry if it has been asked before
but can yata mirror change its shape and size
we have seen enma do it but that was a summon so its all together a different story
how can yata mirror suddenly deflect a attack from itachis back?
i mean does it acts like gaaras sand?

[' ~ Dantee ~ ']

fail thread. if you wanna base your "facts" on databook alone then kakashi's kamui can destroy this yata mirror with little effort. it was said that there is no defense against kamui.

kamui > yata mirror = yata mirror not invincible

simple.

Databook says it deflects s/t techs as well.

[khaydz5]

Databook says it deflects s/t techs as well.

nope, it doesn't specifically said anything like that.
but databook says there is NO defense against kamui. whats hard to understand with that?

[AfflictionCause]

Nice man, I always knew that nothing could pierce the Yata Mirror. But I never knew that the Mirror itself could stretch and Manipulate it's shape and size like that. Nice find and well done and put together.

[Douryoku]

Huh...nice thread. Though there does exist Noddy's argument which tries exploits Kishi's (arguable) mistake; that two absolute invincible items can't exist at the same time, for their very existence contradicts said statement(s) about them, which could lead to their hype, respectively, being invalidated. Though in my eyes, Itachi's Yata Mirror is superior to the aforementioned "invincible" items, solely because Orochimaru was also in search of them, and Itachi's Mirror also has considerably suitable feats. Moreover, it's not a stretch to say that Itachi's defence really is absolute as Madara's essence (Black Zetsu) said that Itachi was invincible with those two legendary weapons in hand, Madara being an Uchiha possibly knew of these weapons as they seem inter-usable, with Susano'o, and without. This hints that Madara could have been in search of them; further suggesting that Itachi's Mirror really is the perfect defence.

In conclusion, it's likely Itachi's defence really is absolute, though one can't be absolutely sure.