Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

[Owarij]

^ Never read the thread, you'd see scans of it doing that


@the rest, I'm in my HCI class , so when I get home i'll reply

I did a quick read through..
People do realize ASTRAL attacks are listed under the things yata mirror can defend from....
The ONLY astral attack in the databook or displayed in the manga since the last db was KAMUI...

[Draphsin]

^ Never read the thread, you'd see scans of it doing that


@the rest, I'm in my HCI class , so when I get home i'll reply

I did a quick read through..
People do realize ASTRAL attacks are listed under the things yata mirror can defend from....
The ONLY astral attack in the databook or displayed in the manga since the last db was KAMUI...

lol show me

[Strict]

Does astral also include Fūinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin? I think it does.

[Owarij]

Does astral also include Fūinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin? I think it does.

Shiki fujin is astral, forgot about that jutsu , as whatever the death god is, doesn't exist in the PHYSICAL realm.. just like totsuka and yata mirror, they are spiritual things..

[Forget Me Not]

Nice thread and all, but one thing you must realise is that Kishi always like hyperboles in this manga. One day he says one thing and tomorrow you see the counter. Like he said Gaara's sand was the ultimate defense, yet Lee countered it. Like he said Susanoo was the ultimate defense, yet we saw that underground was the weakness. Like he says in his databook that Amaterasu burns at the same temperatur as sun, but we all know that it's impossible, or everyone around it would have been desintegrated in an instant.

If we go by that logic, must i say that Raikiri can pierce thru Yata mirror then? After all Raikiri's databook says it pierces thru everything:



Even Gai said it in the manga

If we go by the databook3, when Kakashi wasn't able to use his kamui perfectly, Kamui is the ultimate technique and against this technique no defense is possible(yata mirror included?)



On the second bold part, you even see him saying that there is no technique that can compete against this one. And it's validated when Kakashi said Kamui is unstoppable:



If it is true, does it mean that Kakashi is invincible right now?

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, the thing here is that Yata Mirror's hype has been pretty much validated. It blocked a ton of paper bombs, and it even blocked one of the most devastating moves in the series--Kirin.

Kishi usually does contradict his hyperbole in the series with later events, but there is no way to contradict the Yata Mirror hype because it no longer exists--thus we have to go by what was said in the manga and databook, which usually contains valid information.

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

Rename the thread: Yata mirror grossly OVERRATED and I'll agree with you :y

[Blaze Release]

^ Never read the thread, you'd see scans of it doing that


@the rest, I'm in my HCI class , so when I get home i'll reply

I did a quick read through..
People do realize ASTRAL attacks are listed under the things yata mirror can defend from....
The ONLY astral attack in the databook or displayed in the manga since the last db was KAMUI...

Actually there are more astral attacks. Example Gedo mazo dragon should fall under this. [1]
Another is Gentoshin no Jutsu
[1]


Those two techniques fall under astral. even says art of astral projection. That is the english translation

[Owarij]

Actually there are more astral attacks. Example Gedo mazo dragon should fall under this. [1]
Another is Gentoshin no Jutsu
[1]


Those two techniques fall under astral. even says art of astral projection. That is the english translation

Q.Q lmao, Forgot about all these things

[Forget Me Not]

I'm going to recapitulate this seeing as how people still seem to be geared towards "Itachi is invincible" which is clearly false.

In that case, Susano'o primary weakness would be ground-based attacks.

Some possible ways Yata Mirror could be countered: Exponential speed (i.e. FTG), Sand/Dust (a la Gaara and his father), Wood Clone, Kamui/ST-jutsu, Dust Release, etc.

Would have really been intriguing to see Yata Mirror's full extent. Too bad it's probably no longer in existence.

And all of these things are NOTWITHSTANDING Itachi's clear limitations. I directly addressed the Yata Mirror itself.

Now all of these things could quite possibly counter the Yata Mirror. I've already explained a couple of these scenarios.

As for Yata Mirror extending automatically, I highly doubt that... Here's why. The thing that makes Gaara's defense so special is that it acts on its own accord. But it doesn't just do that for no reason. It's only able to do that because it has been stated in the manga that Gaara's sand is his mother's will, thus it is essentially a sentient thing. Yata Mirror/Susano'o are not. What we saw in the OP scans is that it was extending in CORRESPONDENCE to the debris/damage. These were things at face value. I don't think it could extend by itself if a threat isn't seen/present.

In other words, attacks that Itachi's sharingan don't anticipate likely cannot be negated by the Yata Mirror. It would make no sense otherwise. I don't think we can claim Yata will extend AUTOMATICALLY if Itachi himself (the wielder) does not detect it beforehand.

[Owarij]

I'm going to recapitulate this seeing as how people still seem to be geared towards "Itachi is invincible" which is clearly false.

Itachi isn't invincible and I wont doubt that yata mirror has weak points, I even said in the op that that invincible hype is definitely a hyperbole.. I personally believe the shield is an automatic defence for incoming attacks... though there is 0 proof on both sides of the argument, i'll attempt to reread the databook scans and look for some

[Waltz]

Actually there are more astral attacks. Example Gedo mazo dragon should fall under this. [1]
Another is Gentoshin no Jutsu
[1]


Those two techniques fall under astral. even says art of astral projection. That is the english translation

Shiki fujin is astral, forgot about that jutsu , as whatever the death god is, doesn't exist in the PHYSICAL realm.. just like totsuka and yata mirror, they are spiritual things..

Does astral also include Fūinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin? I think it does.

Q.Q lmao, Forgot about all these things

Blaze, Strcit and Owarij You guys just had to crash my party didn't you?
A question though, is Sasuke's susano'o arrow listed as an Astral attack? (A scan would be nice also)

[Forget Me Not]

A question though, would Sasuke's susano'o arrow be an Astral attack?

Possibly so. I think it is categorized under that in the databook.

I don't doubt it could negate the Susano'o arrow if it negated Kirin.

[Waltz]

Possibly so. I think it is categorized under that in the databook.

I don't doubt it could negate the Susano'o arrow if it negated Kirin.

-Edit-
It negated the Arrow:

Ok to the rest.

[Forget Me Not]

Itachi isn't invincible and I wont doubt that yata mirror has weak points, I even said in the op that that invincible hype is definitely a hyperbole.. I personally believe the shield is an automatic defence for incoming attacks... though there is 0 proof on both sides of the argument, i'll attempt to reread the databook scans and look for some

Exactly my point. I too believe this. Yata Mirror should extend automatically at incoming attacks since they are adjacent to Itachi (which doesn't mean Yata is weak as 9/10 attacks in the series are of this nature). But attacks that are not linear...I don't think Yata could counter those (i.e. if someone like Minato could teleport directly behind the Yata/Susano'o and hit him).

There are seldom characters that could counter Yata, but the counters I stated seem feasible enough. I also believe Chibaku Tensei could defeat Susano'o/Yata. Why? Because it's a gravitational pull; it isn't an astral or elemental attack. There is nothing that can defy gravity. Itachi's Susano'o along with himself and company were going to even be subdued by the tech, but luckily Itachi was ingenious enough to formulate a plan just in the brink of time.

[seanmansam]

It is just an exaggeration!!! Jeez...

[edo tensai wilmaso]

honestly kishi just pulled that out of his rabbit a$$ .....he is secretly in love with itachi.... we will never see those items again.

[Forget Me Not]

I think we're overstating the value of Yata Mirror a bit. Yata clearly has susceptibilities, that much has been proven.

I don't think Yata Mirror solely is what made Itachi deemed invincible. It's the combination of Yata Mirror AND Totsuka Blade is what is so deadly.

There's no doubt in my mind that Itachi could be damaged if he just mounted Yata Mirror and not the Blade as well. It would only be a matter of time. But with Totsuka he can be on the offense and defense at the same time.

Yata Mirror or Totsuka Blade by themselves are not nearly indestructible. It is the duo of the both that make Itachi so unique.

[Waltz]

I think we're overstating the value of Yata Mirror a bit. Yata clearly has susceptibilities, that much has been proven.

I don't think Yata Mirror solely is what made Itachi deemed invincible. It's the combination of Yata Mirror AND Totsuka Blade is what is so deadly.

There's no doubt in my mind that Itachi could be damaged if he just mounted Yata Mirror and not the Blade as well. It would only be a matter of time. But with Totsuka he can be on the offense and defense at the same time.

Yata Mirror or Totsuka Blade by themselves are not nearly indestructible. It is the duo of the both that make Itachi so unique.

Agreed. So far several highly possible counters have been illustrated, Yata Has weak spots and as you said is over estimated.

In your previous post referring to Chibaku tensei were you saying that it counters Yata on a whole? (i disagree too) or solely that it counters yata ability to react to incoming attacks?

[Forget Me Not]

Agreed. So far several highly possible counters have been illustrated, Yata Has weak spots and as you said is over estimated.

In your previous post referring to Chibaku tensei were you saying that it counters Yata on a whole? (i disagree too) or solely that it counters yata ability to react to incoming attacks?

In my previous post I meant that it could counter Yata Mirror and Itachi altogether. Why? Because it isn't an elemental or astral attack - it has no notion of physicality. Nothing can escape gravity. It could probably hold its ground for a short time span, but it would ultimately be subdued.

Another reason why I'm lead to believe this is that Itachi used his Susano'o against Chibaku Tensei before. He stated the only way to counter Chibaku Tensei in that instance is to overwhelm it. If Yata Mirror was truly the panacea, why didn't he use it? He could have told Naruto and Bee to merely hide by his Yata Mirror if it could counter Chibaku Tensei's gravitational pull. The only conclusion is that Yata Mirror was not a feasible counter to Chibaku Tensei so he henceforth hypothesized a different strategy.

[Forget Me Not]

-Edit-
It negated the Arrow:

Ok to the rest.

What I mean is that Yata definitely can counter the Susano arrow if it countered a far more destructive technique like Kirin.

[myhayjeff]

Nice info bro :D

[Owarij]

@ForgetMeNot

Yeah,
Zetsu basically saw Susanno, a full susanno.. which is ALREADY an incredibly tough defence to break...I can list the few jutsu that would be able to penetrate a Full susanno's defence right now....
ontop of that already tough defence he had Yata mirror for protection AND totsuka sword for offence... To him It seemed perfect

Maybe in the right hands it is, But Itachi does have stamina problems, so even with all of those toys, he wouldn't be able to use it long in a fight

[mcmousy]

What would happen if you attacked the strongest shield (Yata) with the strongest blade (Totsuka)?

Imagine the Unstoppable movement and the immovable object. And there is your answer

[Niwdog]

Itachi does not need to activate Susano'o to use the Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror since they are items that are separate to Susanoo and can be used independent of them, or else Oro wouldn't have been after the blade and the mirror. This means that Itachi doesn't have to exhaust tonnes of chakra to use them. His invincibility still maintains without the use of his chakra. And if what this thread's OP claims is true and Yata Mirror can extend around Itachi, then Itachi's a lot more powerful and effective a shinobi than I already thought he was, and that sounds like such a backwards thing to say on this forum considering how overhyped Itachi is on it.

Another important thing, does Yata Mirror count as ninjutsu?

You know what, I'm actually going to plus rep. I was sceptical before I read the OP but I'm convinced. There was very clearly laid out and compelling evidence.

[Nupp]

I think if Black Zetsu who is supposed to be the embodiment of Madara called Itachi invincible with the Yata mirror then I would not take it lightly......

I think the fact the shield can change shape means it may be able to form a 360 defense, however as even Itachi says everything has a weakness I bet the Yata mirror is no exception.