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  1. #151
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    ^ Never read the thread, you'd see scans of it doing that


    @the rest, I'm in my HCI class , so when I get home i'll reply

    I did a quick read through..
    People do realize ASTRAL attacks are listed under the things yata mirror can defend from....
    The ONLY astral attack in the databook or displayed in the manga since the last db was KAMUI...

    lol show me
     
         

  2. #152
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Does astral also include Fūinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin? I think it does.
     
         

  3. #153
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Does astral also include Fūinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin? I think it does.
    Shiki fujin is astral, forgot about that jutsu , as whatever the death god is, doesn't exist in the PHYSICAL realm.. just like totsuka and yata mirror, they are spiritual things..
     
         

  4. #154
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    Nice thread and all, but one thing you must realise is that Kishi always like hyperboles in this manga. One day he says one thing and tomorrow you see the counter. Like he said Gaara's sand was the ultimate defense, yet Lee countered it. Like he said Susanoo was the ultimate defense, yet we saw that underground was the weakness. Like he says in his databook that Amaterasu burns at the same temperatur as sun, but we all know that it's impossible, or everyone around it would have been desintegrated in an instant.

    If we go by that logic, must i say that Raikiri can pierce thru Yata mirror then? After all Raikiri's databook says it pierces thru everything:



    Even Gai said it in the manga

    If we go by the databook3, when Kakashi wasn't able to use his kamui perfectly, Kamui is the ultimate technique and against this technique no defense is possible(yata mirror included?)



    On the second bold part, you even see him saying that there is no technique that can compete against this one. And it's validated when Kakashi said Kamui is unstoppable:



    If it is true, does it mean that Kakashi is invincible right now?
    While I don't necessarily disagree with you, the thing here is that Yata Mirror's hype has been pretty much validated. It blocked a ton of paper bombs, and it even blocked one of the most devastating moves in the series--Kirin.

    Kishi usually does contradict his hyperbole in the series with later events, but there is no way to contradict the Yata Mirror hype because it no longer exists--thus we have to go by what was said in the manga and databook, which usually contains valid information.
     
         

  5. #155
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Rename the thread: Yata mirror grossly OVERRATED and I'll agree with you :y
     
         

  6. #156
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    ^ Never read the thread, you'd see scans of it doing that


    @the rest, I'm in my HCI class , so when I get home i'll reply

    I did a quick read through..
    People do realize ASTRAL attacks are listed under the things yata mirror can defend from....
    The ONLY astral attack in the databook or displayed in the manga since the last db was KAMUI...

    Actually there are more astral attacks. Example Gedo mazo dragon should fall under this. [1]
    Another is Gentoshin no Jutsu
    [1]


    Those two techniques fall under astral. even says art of astral projection. That is the english translation
     
         
    Last edited by Blaze Release; 01-22-2013 at 07:52 PM.

  7. #157
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    Actually there are more astral attacks. Example Gedo mazo dragon should fall under this. [1]
    Another is Gentoshin no Jutsu
    [1]


    Those two techniques fall under astral. even says art of astral projection. That is the english translation
    Q.Q lmao, Forgot about all these things
     
         

  8. #158
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I'm going to recapitulate this seeing as how people still seem to be geared towards "Itachi is invincible" which is clearly false.

    In that case, Susano'o primary weakness would be ground-based attacks.

    Some possible ways Yata Mirror could be countered: Exponential speed (i.e. FTG), Sand/Dust (a la Gaara and his father), Wood Clone, Kamui/ST-jutsu, Dust Release, etc.

    Would have really been intriguing to see Yata Mirror's full extent. Too bad it's probably no longer in existence.
    And all of these things are NOTWITHSTANDING Itachi's clear limitations. I directly addressed the Yata Mirror itself.

    Now all of these things could quite possibly counter the Yata Mirror. I've already explained a couple of these scenarios.

    As for Yata Mirror extending automatically, I highly doubt that... Here's why. The thing that makes Gaara's defense so special is that it acts on its own accord. But it doesn't just do that for no reason. It's only able to do that because it has been stated in the manga that Gaara's sand is his mother's will, thus it is essentially a sentient thing. Yata Mirror/Susano'o are not. What we saw in the OP scans is that it was extending in CORRESPONDENCE to the debris/damage. These were things at face value. I don't think it could extend by itself if a threat isn't seen/present.

    In other words, attacks that Itachi's sharingan don't anticipate likely cannot be negated by the Yata Mirror. It would make no sense otherwise. I don't think we can claim Yata will extend AUTOMATICALLY if Itachi himself (the wielder) does not detect it beforehand.
     
         
    Last edited by Forget Me Not; 01-22-2013 at 08:15 PM.

  9. #159
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I'm going to recapitulate this seeing as how people still seem to be geared towards "Itachi is invincible" which is clearly false.

    Itachi isn't invincible and I wont doubt that yata mirror has weak points, I even said in the op that that invincible hype is definitely a hyperbole.. I personally believe the shield is an automatic defence for incoming attacks... though there is 0 proof on both sides of the argument, i'll attempt to reread the databook scans and look for some
     
         

  10. #160
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    Actually there are more astral attacks. Example Gedo mazo dragon should fall under this. [1]
    Another is Gentoshin no Jutsu
    [1]


    Those two techniques fall under astral. even says art of astral projection. That is the english translation
    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Shiki fujin is astral, forgot about that jutsu , as whatever the death god is, doesn't exist in the PHYSICAL realm.. just like totsuka and yata mirror, they are spiritual things..
    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    Does astral also include Fūinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin? I think it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Q.Q lmao, Forgot about all these things
    Blaze, Strcit and Owarij You guys just had to crash my party didn't you?
    A question though, is Sasuke's susano'o arrow listed as an Astral attack? (A scan would be nice also)
     
         
    Last edited by Waltz; 01-22-2013 at 08:31 PM.

  11. #161
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    A question though, would Sasuke's susano'o arrow be an Astral attack?
    Possibly so. I think it is categorized under that in the databook.

    I don't doubt it could negate the Susano'o arrow if it negated Kirin.
     
         

  12. #162
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    Possibly so. I think it is categorized under that in the databook.

    I don't doubt it could negate the Susano'o arrow if it negated Kirin.
    -Edit-
    It negated the Arrow:


    Ok to the rest.
     
         
    Last edited by Waltz; 01-22-2013 at 08:43 PM.

  13. #163
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    Itachi isn't invincible and I wont doubt that yata mirror has weak points, I even said in the op that that invincible hype is definitely a hyperbole.. I personally believe the shield is an automatic defence for incoming attacks... though there is 0 proof on both sides of the argument, i'll attempt to reread the databook scans and look for some
    Exactly my point. I too believe this. Yata Mirror should extend automatically at incoming attacks since they are adjacent to Itachi (which doesn't mean Yata is weak as 9/10 attacks in the series are of this nature). But attacks that are not linear...I don't think Yata could counter those (i.e. if someone like Minato could teleport directly behind the Yata/Susano'o and hit him).

    There are seldom characters that could counter Yata, but the counters I stated seem feasible enough. I also believe Chibaku Tensei could defeat Susano'o/Yata. Why? Because it's a gravitational pull; it isn't an astral or elemental attack. There is nothing that can defy gravity. Itachi's Susano'o along with himself and company were going to even be subdued by the tech, but luckily Itachi was ingenious enough to formulate a plan just in the brink of time.
     
         

  14. #164
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    It is just an exaggeration!!! Jeez...
     
         

  15. #165
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    honestly kishi just pulled that out of his rabbit a$$ .....he is secretly in love with itachi.... we will never see those items again.
     
         

  16. #166
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I think we're overstating the value of Yata Mirror a bit. Yata clearly has susceptibilities, that much has been proven.

    I don't think Yata Mirror solely is what made Itachi deemed invincible. It's the combination of Yata Mirror AND Totsuka Blade is what is so deadly.

    There's no doubt in my mind that Itachi could be damaged if he just mounted Yata Mirror and not the Blade as well. It would only be a matter of time. But with Totsuka he can be on the offense and defense at the same time.

    Yata Mirror or Totsuka Blade by themselves are not nearly indestructible. It is the duo of the both that make Itachi so unique.
     
         

  17. #167
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    I think we're overstating the value of Yata Mirror a bit. Yata clearly has susceptibilities, that much has been proven.

    I don't think Yata Mirror solely is what made Itachi deemed invincible. It's the combination of Yata Mirror AND Totsuka Blade is what is so deadly.

    There's no doubt in my mind that Itachi could be damaged if he just mounted Yata Mirror and not the Blade as well. It would only be a matter of time. But with Totsuka he can be on the offense and defense at the same time.

    Yata Mirror or Totsuka Blade by themselves are not nearly indestructible. It is the duo of the both that make Itachi so unique.
    Agreed. So far several highly possible counters have been illustrated, Yata Has weak spots and as you said is over estimated.

    In your previous post referring to Chibaku tensei were you saying that it counters Yata on a whole? (i disagree too) or solely that it counters yata ability to react to incoming attacks?
     
         

  18. #168
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    Agreed. So far several highly possible counters have been illustrated, Yata Has weak spots and as you said is over estimated.

    In your previous post referring to Chibaku tensei were you saying that it counters Yata on a whole? (i disagree too) or solely that it counters yata ability to react to incoming attacks?
    In my previous post I meant that it could counter Yata Mirror and Itachi altogether. Why? Because it isn't an elemental or astral attack - it has no notion of physicality. Nothing can escape gravity. It could probably hold its ground for a short time span, but it would ultimately be subdued.

    Another reason why I'm lead to believe this is that Itachi used his Susano'o against Chibaku Tensei before. He stated the only way to counter Chibaku Tensei in that instance is to overwhelm it. If Yata Mirror was truly the panacea, why didn't he use it? He could have told Naruto and Bee to merely hide by his Yata Mirror if it could counter Chibaku Tensei's gravitational pull. The only conclusion is that Yata Mirror was not a feasible counter to Chibaku Tensei so he henceforth hypothesized a different strategy.
     
         

  19. #169
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    -Edit-
    It negated the Arrow:


    Ok to the rest.
    What I mean is that Yata definitely can counter the Susano arrow if it countered a far more destructive technique like Kirin.
     
         

  20. #170
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Nice info bro :D
     
         

  21. #171
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    @ForgetMeNot

    Yeah,
    Zetsu basically saw Susanno, a full susanno.. which is ALREADY an incredibly tough defence to break...I can list the few jutsu that would be able to penetrate a Full susanno's defence right now....
    ontop of that already tough defence he had Yata mirror for protection AND totsuka sword for offence... To him It seemed perfect

    Maybe in the right hands it is, But Itachi does have stamina problems, so even with all of those toys, he wouldn't be able to use it long in a fight
     
         

  22. #172
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Lentz View Post
    What would happen if you attacked the strongest shield (Yata) with the strongest blade (Totsuka)?
    Imagine the Unstoppable movement and the immovable object. And there is your answer
     
         

  23. #173
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Itachi does not need to activate Susano'o to use the Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror since they are items that are separate to Susanoo and can be used independent of them, or else Oro wouldn't have been after the blade and the mirror. This means that Itachi doesn't have to exhaust tonnes of chakra to use them. His invincibility still maintains without the use of his chakra. And if what this thread's OP claims is true and Yata Mirror can extend around Itachi, then Itachi's a lot more powerful and effective a shinobi than I already thought he was, and that sounds like such a backwards thing to say on this forum considering how overhyped Itachi is on it.

    Another important thing, does Yata Mirror count as ninjutsu?

    You know what, I'm actually going to plus rep. I was sceptical before I read the OP but I'm convinced. There was very clearly laid out and compelling evidence.
     
         

  24. #174
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I think if Black Zetsu who is supposed to be the embodiment of Madara called Itachi invincible with the Yata mirror then I would not take it lightly......

    I think the fact the shield can change shape means it may be able to form a 360 defense, however as even Itachi says everything has a weakness I bet the Yata mirror is no exception.
     
         

  25. #175
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    We all know of the two legendary spiritual weapons that caused Black zetsu to consider Itachi an Invincible force...




    Hyperbole? Yes, But there is truth to his words...First one must understand what a Spirtual weapon is... Answer? Noone knows.. according to zetsu it's a supernatural item.... Databook implies noone really know how or when exactly they appeared.. but the legends have been passed down for years

    What should be noted is that is has NO true phyiscal form, meaning these weapons have no true shape, and could essentially become what shape or size the user wishes... They way we see them now is at a size fit for susanno, but when these weapons were found by Itachi, they wouldn't have been large, they could have been anything, maybe even the normal size of a katana and shield..

    If you don't believe what i'm saying, Of course , I have proof , often overlooked


    Here you see how yatta mirror is, a flat shield, a bit bigger than Itachi, but still smaller than susanno itself..


    Sasuke then throws explosive kunai to cause and explosion


    You can no see the shield has grown, as the head of susanno is no longer higher in the air

    specifically talking about this


    You also should note the sfx showing the mirror was shrinking after the attack..


    Next feat of this? pretty obvious

    If you don't see it


    You clearly see it extended again, covering more in the back of itachi, which is not how it originally looked, considering its flat


    Now I want you to pay CLOSE attention , to the last two pictures I posted, and realize that for this attack, Yata mirror has changed size and shape, and is now fully covering Susanno....

    This means that no matter WHAT attack comes at Itachi, Yata mirror can Change not only its ELEMENTS, but its ATTRIBUTES , to deflect it.....

    The databook even says this

    Note that it changes its attributes and properties..


    You should also be aware that yata mirror doesn't simply "block' all attacks.. It REFLECTS.. All attacks.. as stated like 500 times in the manga and databook..





    MUU - Onooki

    People, alot of people , have been putting Muu over Itachi simply because Jinton is a "360" thing.... they claim, that yata mirror and its frontward defence would not at all protect Itachi from the molecule disintegration..
    Bullocks..

    As Ive shown before, ANY incoming attack, would be countered by the mirror and reflected... even if yata mirror has to stretch in a 360 manner to do so , similar to what happened here


    This isnt solely for Jinton....Any incoming taijutsu attack will be countered... yata mirror repelled Sasuke's and his kusunagi thrust....
    People claim that A would be able to go behind yata mirror and attack.. Once again, this isn't a legendary spirtual item for crap and giggles..Like gaara's sand, the yata mirror protects the user from ANY attack



    But how far can yata mirror really go?
    Its not exactly clear, the databook mostly speaks of its impervious fortitude when pitted against jutsu


    Material

    Astral

    Physical

    and Ninjutsu

    What I want you to focus on is the two bolded

    as·tral
    /ˈastrəl/
    Adjective
    Of or relating to a supposed nonphysical realm of existence in which the physical human body is said to have a counterpart.

    what? : o, Databook implies that Yata mirror would even defend against non physical dimension related attacks? Attacks like Long ranged Kamui?

    ....That my friends is up to you to see and consider

    Grossly underated spiritual items



    EDIT
    i

    Another thing everyone should note is the sheer speed that the shape manipulation happens... The mirror moves from its small state to incredibly large withing milliseconds of the attack actually hitting

    Inb4 Bogard, minator94 Soloking solos
    yeah. I pitted Itachis susanoo against Madaras PS once: everyobdy said PS was best but I still think Itachis susanoo is best
     
         

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