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  1. #201
    Senior Member BloodSeed's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    We all know of the two legendary spiritual weapons that caused Black zetsu to consider Itachi an Invincible force...




    Hyperbole? Yes, But there is truth to his words...First one must understand what a Spirtual weapon is... Answer? Noone knows.. according to zetsu it's a supernatural item.... Databook implies noone really know how or when exactly they appeared.. but the legends have been passed down for years

    What should be noted is that is has NO true phyiscal form, meaning these weapons have no true shape, and could essentially become what shape or size the user wishes... They way we see them now is at a size fit for susanno, but when these weapons were found by Itachi, they wouldn't have been large, they could have been anything, maybe even the normal size of a katana and shield..

    If you don't believe what i'm saying, Of course , I have proof , often overlooked


    Here you see how yatta mirror is, a flat shield, a bit bigger than Itachi, but still smaller than susanno itself..


    Sasuke then throws explosive kunai to cause and explosion


    You can no see the shield has grown, as the head of susanno is no longer higher in the air

    specifically talking about this


    You also should note the sfx showing the mirror was shrinking after the attack..


    Next feat of this? pretty obvious

    If you don't see it


    You clearly see it extended again, covering more in the back of itachi, which is not how it originally looked, considering its flat


    Now I want you to pay CLOSE attention , to the last two pictures I posted, and realize that for this attack, Yata mirror has changed size and shape, and is now fully covering Susanno....

    This means that no matter WHAT attack comes at Itachi, Yata mirror can Change not only its ELEMENTS, but its ATTRIBUTES , to deflect it.....

    The databook even says this

    Note that it changes its attributes and properties..


    You should also be aware that yata mirror doesn't simply "block' all attacks.. It REFLECTS.. All attacks.. as stated like 500 times in the manga and databook..





    MUU - Onooki

    People, alot of people , have been putting Muu over Itachi simply because Jinton is a "360" thing.... they claim, that yata mirror and its frontward defence would not at all protect Itachi from the molecule disintegration..
    Bullocks..

    As Ive shown before, ANY incoming attack, would be countered by the mirror and reflected... even if yata mirror has to stretch in a 360 manner to do so , similar to what happened here


    This isnt solely for Jinton....Any incoming taijutsu attack will be countered... yata mirror repelled Sasuke's and his kusunagi thrust....
    People claim that A would be able to go behind yata mirror and attack.. Once again, this isn't a legendary spirtual item for crap and giggles..Like gaara's sand, the yata mirror protects the user from ANY attack



    But how far can yata mirror really go?
    Its not exactly clear, the databook mostly speaks of its impervious fortitude when pitted against jutsu


    Material

    Astral

    Physical

    and Ninjutsu

    What I want you to focus on is the two bolded

    as·tral
    /ˈastrəl/
    Adjective
    Of or relating to a supposed nonphysical realm of existence in which the physical human body is said to have a counterpart.

    what? : o, Databook implies that Yata mirror would even defend against non physical dimension related attacks? Attacks like Long ranged Kamui?

    ....That my friends is up to you to see and consider

    Grossly underated spiritual items



    EDIT
    i

    Another thing everyone should note is the sheer speed that the shape manipulation happens... The mirror moves from its small state to incredibly large withing milliseconds of the attack actually hitting

    Inb4 Bogard, minator94 Soloking solos



    Nah , its just hyperbole.
    First if you look for other scans that zetsu seems he ddnt know what he is talking about
    Second if his defense is the best how come kishi always hype gaara, sasuke, third raikage who got the strongest shield
    Third every jutsu has a weakness as stated by itachi. So that invincible was already denied
    Fourth let say he is invincible for how long? 10 secs lol after that wut happen.?
     
         

  2. #202
    Senior Member EliteKakashi's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by fastrthnwind View Post
    :sy:

    How the hell are my comments not getting recognized in this thread?

    Anyways, concerning kamui vs yata mirror. Kamui is a s/t jutsu that trancends any form of physical or ethereal jutsu because it is neither a physical attack or ethereal in nature. It literally alters reality to the user's desires. Because physical and etheral beings and objects are subject to reality, they can be subject to the reality warping abilities of Kamui. The only thing that could counter Kamui is another reality altering jutsu such as another kamui, or, possibly izanagi.
    Kakashi's kamui requires physical contact with whatever he's warping. It's why against Deidara he couldn't warp his entire body just by aiming it beside him, it actually had to come in contact with Deidara's body. It's why he opened the wormhole, or whatever you want to call it, on top of the missile shot at chouji, or on top of the raiton charged kunai that was deflected towards Naruto. It doesn't work by simply just being around it, it has to make some form of contact.

    If the Yata Mirror holds no physical form, how can he make contact with it to warp it?
     
         

  3. #203
    Senior Member BloodSeed's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by EliteKakashi View Post
    Kamui vs Yata Mirror is interesting.

    I don't think it could warp the mirror itself. There's nothing physically there for it to warp. As I explained in a post a while back[1], and as Kakashi has stated in the past[2], he can put however much chakra in to kamui that he desires. The bigger the object, the more chakra he puts in it. So we know that he has to base his kamui off the physical size of the object. I imagine weight, along with height and width effects his decision. That sounds logical enough.

    So determining how much chakra he would have to use to warp the Yata Mirror would be where Kakashi's/Kamui's first issue would come in. As Owarij showed, it can change it's size to protect the user. Now the 2nd issue comes in the fact is the Yata Mirror even capable of being warped, as it is not a physical object. Going off this definition/image that Owarij showed in his first post:



    The answer would seem to be no. What I would find interesting is could the kamui "pierce through" or "ignore" the yata mirror and suck in whatever is being protected by it. It is stated that there is "no defense" against the technique. Could the Yata Mirror prevent whatever it's protecting from being sucked in to thue other dimension? That would be what I would be interested in finding out.

    Kumui would win sine yata only repels attack, kamui is warp that stupid yata mirror would not recognize that they were getting warpnto another dimension lol
     
         

  4. #204
    Fastr than You fastrthnwind's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by EliteKakashi View Post
    Kakashi's kamui requires physical contact with whatever he's warping. It's why against Deidara he couldn't warp his entire body just by aiming it beside him, it actually had to come in contact with Deidara's body. It's why he opened the wormhole, or whatever you want to call it, on top of the missile shot at chouji, or on top of the raiton charged kunai that was deflected towards Naruto. It doesn't work by simply just being around it, it has to make some form of contact.

    If the Yata Mirror holds no physical form, how can he make contact with it to warp it?
    It doesnt make physical contact with anything. It simply affects anything within the barrier in which the warp is being made because Kamui itself is not physical at all.

    Yata mirror is not physical, but etheral and etheral objects and beings are still bound to the universe through space and time. Anything that can affect space and time is capable of affecting anything, regardless of its form
     
         

  5. #205
    Senior Member BloodSeed's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Can yata mirror also save him from genjutsu? I dont think so
     
         

  6. #206
    Senior Member EliteKakashi's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by fastrthnwind View Post
    It doesnt make physical contact with anything. It simply affects anything within the barrier in which Kamui is being made because Kamui itself is not physical at all.

    Yata mirror is not physical, but etheral and etheral objects and beings are still bound to the universe through space and time. Anything that can affect space and time is capable of affecting anything, regardless of its form
    I know that kamui doesn't make "physical" contact with whatever it's warping, but I couldn't think of any other way to explain it. It was an easy way of explaining it(as in the wormhole/barrier/whatever you wish to call it) has to be on top of the object, if not bigger(by bigger, I mean the barrier/wormhole being bigger) than the object.

    Your post makes sense, though. It's just weird to think of it warping something that physically isn't even there, lol.
     
         

  7. #207
    Fastr than You fastrthnwind's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by EliteKakashi View Post
    I know that kamui doesn't make "physical" contact with whatever it's warping, but I couldn't think of any other way to explain it. It was an easy way of explaining it(as in the wormhole/barrier/whatever you wish to call it) has to be on top of the object, if not bigger(by bigger, I mean the barrier/wormhole being bigger) than the object.

    Your post makes sense, though. It's just weird to think of it warping something that physically isn't even there, lol.
    I totally understand what you are saying, but kamui is warping the area in which the physical/ethereal object exists, which draws it into the warp itself.

    As I said earlier, even ethereal objects and being are subject to space and time as it exists in a certain space at a certain time, both of which Kamui is capable of controlling/warping. Only supernatural beings/objects that exist outside of the space and time of the universe would be unaffected by Kamui.
     
         

  8. #208
    I Torture Death with Love UnrealSoul's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I liked the time when people believed FTG can teleport a spirit weapon with no physical form.

    Ahhh good times....good times....
     
         

  9. #209
    Fastr than You fastrthnwind's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealSoul View Post
    I liked the time when people believed FTG can teleport a spirit weapon with no physical form.

    Ahhh good times....good times....
    You dont think it could?
     
         

  10. #210
    Senior Member BloodSeed's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealSoul View Post
    I liked the time when people believed FTG can teleport a spirit weapon with no physical form.

    Ahhh good times....good times....
    Ok you choose either minato teleports itachi with susano leaving yatamirror behind or ftg can teleport it
     
         

  11. #211
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Agreed, yata mirror is near invincible. I doubt it's invincible because even Itachi states himself, several times, every jutsu has a weakness. Yata Mirror's weakness for Itachi is probably the fact his chakra levels are close to that of Kakashi. Both OP ninja with crap chakra levels.
     
         

  12. #212
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    I love u for this
     
         

  13. #213
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Itachi's a G, nuff said >>>>
    :rofl:
    :rofl:
    :rofl:
    :rofl:
     
         
    Last edited by SAmIDeXtEr; 01-23-2013 at 02:58 AM.

  14. #214
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    the yata mirror is invincible
     
         

  15. #215
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyDrink View Post
    I suppose to me the biggest question is that which PuppyDogGeneral already mentioned: who is in control of Yata Mirror? Is the Mirror reacting on its own to oncoming attacks, or is Itachi himself altering it's size to defend himself? I believe it is the latter. Why? Because if it were the Yata Mirror reacting to oncoming attacks, my belief is that it would expand to the perfect size to block the attack, and nothing more. However, in the scan you provided where Sasuke throws the paper bombs attached to kunai, the shield expands more than necessary. This is, of course, mere speculation, but it seems to me as though it reacts according to the user, and so if the user does not see an attack (this relates to the speed argument), then the shield will also not react. Similarly, the user would have to see an attack coming to block it. This seems to make more sense in my opinion.
    Heyyyyyy guys, remember me? This question has still not really been addressed.

    Also, as to the whole "Kamui vs Yata Mirror" argument, I'm going to side with thegame on this one. Yata can certainly block projectiles, or anything that is MOVING towards the target. That's why it should be able to block astral attacks such as Gedo Mazou's soul dragon. However, with Kamui and Amaterasu, there is no passage. The jutsu's simply appear at a point. I do not see a reason why Kamui or Amaterasu can not be used on Itachi while's he's inside Susanoo. The idea behind that is that there is nothing for the Shield to block. In fact, it's transparency works against it in this case. The attacks simply appear on the other side of the shield, so they should be functional counters.
     
         

  16. #216
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Itachi is only slightly stronger than Muu, hes 10 while Itachi is 9 imo

    And on a slightly unrelated note, kamui and FTG both beat yata mirror
     
         

  17. #217
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    ^^^^^^^^^ butt hurt minato fans elite above
     
         

  18. #218
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    kamui isn't a physical or etherial attack it is a warping of space and time. Yata cannot deflect or adjust to something that isn't attacking it being that it is a shield that response to the users anticipation of the incoming attack. Kamui has no counter but kamui itself.
    It's astral... Anticipation of an attack is always part of shielding from one. The same can be said for any attack a user can't anticipate. If we're talking about Kamui vs Yatamirroe; Yata repels it.
     
         

  19. #219
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    i don't think that the yata mirror is underated. it is actually the strongest defense of the susano'o.i am pretty sure is strong enough to even reflect or restand the dust particle style.
     
         

  20. #220
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by EliteKakashi View Post
    The issue with that would be the mirror covering the entire body of the wielder. It would simply depend on how fast Kakashi warps it(it's shown he can warp humans practically instantly). However, the size of susanoo would play in to it, as susanoo is a physical being and a large one at that. Kakashi managed to use kamui to warp the gyuki at an extremely fast rate, but I dunno if it would be quick enough to warp before the mirror can protect the user from behind.
    Yeah there are too many unknowns to determine any of this.
     
         

  21. #221
    Atarashi Yoake TheSyren's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    IMO the yata mirror is only restricted by the ingenuity and the amount of chakra that the weirder has. Itachi is a genius, but has low chakra reserves when compared to other ninja.
     
         

  22. #222
    Youngest KAGE Priyam Bhowmick's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Nice work.*****. Even I had not though about it
     
         

  23. #223
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Heyyyyyy guys, remember me? This question has still not really been addressed.

    Also, as to the whole "Kamui vs Yata Mirror" argument, I'm going to side with thegame on this one. Yata can certainly block projectiles, or anything that is MOVING towards the target. That's why it should be able to block astral attacks such as Gedo Mazou's soul dragon. However, with Kamui and Amaterasu, there is no passage. The jutsu's simply appear at a point. I do not see a reason why Kamui or Amaterasu can not be used on Itachi while's he's inside Susanoo. The idea behind that is that there is nothing for the Shield to block. In fact, it's transparency works against it in this case. The attacks simply appear on the other side of the shield, so they should be functional counters.

    Like amaterasu, Kamui does move in a path,the both are just so fast, kishi doesn't even show the path movement anymore



    It happened when he was sending it to Deidara's arms as welll

    I think this would end up a matter of if Yata mirror responds on its own to attacks, or if the wielder has to change its attributes.. The thing about kamui is that its an invisible attack
     
         

  24. #224
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSeed View Post
    Nah , its just hyperbole.
    First if you look for other scans that zetsu seems he ddnt know what he is talking about
    Second if his defense is the best how come kishi always hype gaara, sasuke, third raikage who got the strongest shield
    Third every jutsu has a weakness as stated by itachi. So that invincible was already denied
    Fourth let say he is invincible for how long? 10 secs lol after that wut happen.?
    Anything you took for an example is hype, and only hype, as Kishimoto uses the term perfect for anything what is supposed to be a great offense or defense by peoples believes. In this case however, black Zetsu explicitly said, that Yatas mirror is a spiritual weapon, able to deflect any technique, what also was implied in the databook. While several defenses were merely called perfect due to their toughness by people who acknowledged it, Yatas mirror was explicitly said to be a weapon before all attacks lose their effect and make its user together with Totsukas blade completely invincible. This isn't mere hype given by Shinobi who believe in the strength of a certain thing but by black Zetsu, who hides Madaras knowledge and the very databook, which talks about Yatas mirror, how it works and which limits exist - none.
     
         

  25. #225
    第五生まれ Draphsin's Avatar
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    Re: Yata Mirror Grossly Underated- HardCounter to Dust Release

    Quote Originally Posted by ' ~ Dantee ~ ' View Post
    It's astral... Anticipation of an attack is always part of shielding from one. The same can be said for any attack a user can't anticipate. If we're talking about Kamui vs Yatamirroe; Yata repels it.
    Can you show me where it says kamui is astral? it was to my understanding that kamui is a space and time jutsu able to manipulate space and time. even if yata can defend against it, wouldnt you still be able to use kamui on the user inside susanoo? making yata useless
     
         

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