Myth Busting Thread #3 - Hanzo was not this incredible, super kage level shinobi

[ItachiStyle]

I have noticed an alarming number of errors on this board, and I'm going to start trying to eliminate them so that people stop citing them as evidence for their theories.

The 3rd of these is that Hanzo of the Salamander was some amazingly awesome Shinobi. He wasn't.

Hanzo was a good ninja, no doubt there. And he had a great rep. But the more we've seen of him, the clearer it has been that he isn't anything special. The guys big claim to fame was that he fought evenly with the Sannin back when they were teenagers. This fight doesn't mean much though, because:
a) they were teenagers, who hadn't gotten nearly as strong as they would later. Tsunade didn't have her regen techniques for instance, Jiraiya doesn't seem to have Sage mode or the Rasengan (which hadn't been invented yet), Oro hadn't gone through numerous power ups from absorbing other host bodies, and adding their strength to his own, nor had he invented numerous techniques that would make him way stronger than Hanzo (like Edo Tensei). None of them seem to have had their summons available for the fight either (or were too tired to summon them). This brings me to the 2nd point,
b) We don't know the circumstances of the fight. For all we know the Sannin were exhausted from killing all Hanzo's men (see all the dead bodies visible in the fight?), and by the time Hanzo showed up they were in no condition to take him and his Salamander.

We're then left with a guy who lost to Mifune and ran away from kid Nagato, and whose name may have been "known by Shinobi all around the world", but who clearly wasn't as strong as readers of the manga first suspected he might be. There's no reason to think he could take any of the grown up Sannin individually, and dozens of other shinobi in the manga demonstrate clearly superior prowess. He's apparently useless when he isn't given time to weave signs either, meaning pretty much any decent Uchiha can own him (since they don't need their hands to use techs), just as they'd have owned Mifune when he tried to beat them with his "quick draw" sword skills. Indeed, lots of chatacters can do jutsu without seals (Rasengan, Oro's snake techs, Jiraiya's hair, etc). It's pretty embarassing really for a guy who was supposedly Kage level, but probably wasn't (unless you're comparing him to the lowest level of Kage possible, like Gaara's dad). It's also notable that he doesn't get put in the strong group, whose job is to hold off the armies advance, but is put in the crappy back-up ambush group. If Hanzo was that strong, Kabuto would have put him in the front lines with the resurrected Kage or Madara, which is where he'd be the most useful.

[Douryoku]

Nice clarification thread.

[narutodarkfox]

thanks

[OrochimaruFan]

Thanks Adam.

[Sephy100]

Good points.

[enthaim]

That man was legendary, jerk. Don't discount Nagato's abilities, either.

[kc8]

i would've like it better with pictures

[Detective L]

Nicely said.

[Thee Beyonder]

I think everybody knew that this was true

[zinescience]

good point

[muutobirama3rdraikagemizu]

Jiraya thought no one could beat hanzo , one vs one and he saw prime hiruzen


Manga>you

[know it all]

I have noticed an alarming number of errors on this board, and I'm going to start trying to eliminate them so that people stop citing them as evidence for their theories.

The 3rd of these is that Hanzo of the Salamander was some amazingly awesome Shinobi. He wasn't.

Hanzo was a good ninja, no doubt there. And he had a great rep. But the more we've seen of him, the clearer it has been that he isn't anything special. The guys big claim to fame was that he fought evenly with the Sannin back when they were teenagers. This fight doesn't mean much though, because:
a) they were teenagers, who hadn't gotten nearly as strong as they would later. Tsunade didn't have her regen techniques for instance, Jiraiya doesn't seem to have Sage mode or the Rasengan (which hadn't been invented yet), Oro hadn't gone through numerous power ups from absorbing other host bodies, and adding their strength to his own, nor had he invented numerous techniques that would make him way stronger than Hanzo (like Edo Tensei). None of them seem to have had their summons available for the fight either (or were too tired to summon them). This brings me to the 2nd point,
b) We don't know the circumstances of the fight. For all we know the Sannin were exhausted from killing all Hanzo's men (see all the dead bodies visible in the fight?), and by the time Hanzo showed up they were in no condition to take him and his Salamander.

We're then left with a guy who lost to Mifune and ran away from kid Nagato, and whose name may have been "known by Shinobi all around the world", but who clearly wasn't as strong as readers of the manga first suspected he might be. There's no reason to think he could take any of the grown up Sannin individually, and dozens of other shinobi in the manga demonstrate clearly superior prowess. He's apparently useless when he isn't given time to weave signs either, meaning pretty much any decent Uchiha can own him (since they don't need their hands to use techs), just as they'd have owned Mifune when he tried to beat them with his "quick draw" sword skills. Indeed, lots of chatacters can do jutsu without seals (Rasengan, Oro's snake techs, Jiraiya's hair, etc). It's pretty embarassing really for a guy who was supposedly Kage level, but probably wasn't (unless you're comparing him to the lowest level of Kage possible, like Gaara's dad). It's also notable that he doesn't get put in the strong group, whose job is to hold off the armies advance, but is put in the crappy back-up ambush group. If Hanzo was that strong, Kabuto would have put him in the front lines with the resurrected Kage or Madara, which is where he'd be the most useful.

Not a bad thread, but don't put down nagato's power, he was ridiculously strong, if you remember that episode/chapter, he summons that huge dragon from the Gedo Mazou that eats people's souls. And also, the sannin had very respectable power, even back then. I would estimate that together, they could probably give a powerful kage a good fight, like Prime Hiruzen.

[Strata Spartan]

Nah, I believe Hanzo is as strong as Kishimoto intended him to be. Like Kage level.

Probably due to time constraints with his associates caused us not to see Hanzo vs. The Sannin on panel which was highly disappointing.

[ItachiStyle]

Jiraya thought no one could beat hanzo , one vs one and he saw prime hiruzen


Manga>you

Oh look, someone who didn't read the thread, or the manga. Jiraiya didn't say that at all, nor is prime Sarutobi anywhere close to where you think he is.

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

All I know is

Sasori > Hanzo



Sasori doesn't breath, so his poison won't work, but 100 puppets > Hanzo

[ItachiStyle]

Kage level varies alot. I think he could have been compared to weak Kage maybe... but that would be his ceiling. Adult versons of the Sannin would eat Hanzo alive, let alone alot of the other top end shinobi running around.

[muutobirama3rdraikagemizu]

Oh look, someone who didn't read the thread, or the manga. Jiraiya didn't say that at all, nor is prime Sarutobi anywhere close to where you think he is.

Prime hanzo is powerful, if jiraya was surprised someone beat him one on one only means he was powerful

So by jiraya i declare prime hanzo
can beat: orochimaru , tsunade, jiraya, possibly hiruzen

Some people

[Dribbles]

If Hanzo was that strong, Kabuto would have put him in the front lines with the resurrected Kage or Madara, which is where he'd be the most useful.

#Game #Set #Match

[ItachiStyle]

Prime hanzo is powerful, if jiraya was surprised someone beat him one on one only means he was powerful

So by jiraya i declare prime hanzo
can beat: orochimaru , tsunade, jiraya, possibly hiruzen

Some people

Jiraiya was surprised someone beat him one on one, but all that tells us is that Hanzo was strong (which nobody is disputing), and he's surprised some guy he never heard of could beat him (especially with all the security precautions he took). It doesn't tell us much by itself. Since then, we've gotten alot more clarification on how strong Hanzo actually was, and it turns out he wasn't that great.

The idea he can beat Oro is literally laughable, ditto the other Sannin, and the only reason I don't mock the idea he can beat HirUzen is because he didn't see enough of him to be sure. I'd be inclined to take all 4 over him very clearly. What will Hanzo do when Oro summons the first 2 Hokage to kill him? Heck, apparently all Oro has to do is lock blades with him, after which he'll be helpless against Oro's non-seal based jutsu. So far all of the Sannin's summons look more impressive than Hanzo's does.

[The Alchemist]

Hanzo didn't just kick the Sannins asses he kicked a whole regiment of Konoha shinobi's asses. He was highly powerful and greatly feared for a reason. Fail thread once more troll.

[muutobirama3rdraikagemizu]

Jiraiya was surprised someone beat him one on one, but all that tells us is that Hanzo was strong (which nobody is disputing), and he's surprised some guy he never heard of could beat him (especially with all the security precautions he took). It doesn't tell us much by itself. Since then, we've gotten alot more clarification on how strong Hanzo actually was, and it turns out he wasn't that great.

The idea he can beat Oro is literally laughable, ditto the other Sannin, and the only reason I don't mock the idea he can beat HirUzen is because he didn't see enough of him to be sure. I'd be inclined to take all 4 over him very clearly. What will Hanzo do when Oro summons the first 2 Hokage to kill him? Heck, apparently all Oro has to do is lock blades with him, after which he'll be helpless against Oro's non-seal based jutsu. So far all of the Sannin's summons look more impressive than Hanzo's does.

Those edos are some sh*t, idk if it was orochimaru or what
And i am a hashi and tobirama fan, but still it would be a good fight

Pretty sure from that hype hanzo could take the rest, jiraya knew he had SM but still thinks he is inferior and how do you know those dead body's were on the sannins side

[ItachiStyle]

We have no idea if those bodies were Hanzo's men or leaf men. And going off the manga (which is the only thing that counts really), we don't have enough info to give Hanzo much cred. All we really do know about that battle is that he fought 3 teen Sannin and lived. 3 Sannin who were nowhere near as strong as they'd later be.

That isn't especially impressive by itself, and it's alot less when we put it into context. Like the new info we got about Hanzo as the manga went on... how he lost to frickin Mifune for instance, and is unable to use ninjutsu without seals (wtf?!)

[Uchiha Josephus]

Meh. You underestimate Mifune.

Also, I always took that scene in the manga as Hanzo kicking Konoha army's asses with the 3 Sannin as the last ones standing.

So, I disagree.

EDIT -> I'm not saying that people don't overrate Hanzo (they do, it's annoying), but this seems like going to the opposite extreme.

[ItachiStyle]

There's no evidence to support your opinion though. Which makes me disregard it. Just like I disregard people who argue some no name ninja we never heard of was stronger than Itachi... maybe he was, but I'll want some pretty good evidence before I buy it. You have none.

[Uchiha Josephus]

There's no evidence to support your opinion though. Which makes me disregard it. Just like I disregard people who argue some no name ninja we never heard of was stronger than Itachi... maybe he was, but I'll want some pretty good evidence before I buy it. You have none.

Bahahahahahaa!!!! Your entire thread is based off of your own assumptions on the situation and personal opinions on the measure of various ninja/samuri's strength.

Don't act like it's "evidence"

That said, I agree he is overrated by a lot of folks. But I also think you're underrating him. But again, it's up to opinion, so I'll respect yours if you can conjure the willpower to respect mine.

Cheers! :ice: