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  1. #51
    Christian Jobrjo's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by chancek7 View Post
    It's very good that you have strong beliefs but my questions to you is this... Are they your own? or ideas from the books you read?
    It shouldn't matter. Sound proof is sound proof, no matter if it's from a homeless man or the President of the USA.
    But, to answer your question, I had these thoughts before reading the book, it's just confirming and building them up. It was suggested to me to read. Anyway, the only part that is taken from the book, filtered through me, and posted here is the 2nd 1/2 of that one post. Everything else isn't.

    But as I said, it truly shouldn't matter .-. But hey, curiosity is good!
     
         

  2. #52
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguis View Post
    Through all the barriers we have overcome as a species this is one we still have a firm grip on, I don't see why we hold so dear to the concept of wrong and right. At the end of the day all it does to the species is bring:
    • separation of between humanity
    • righteous pride
    • unfairness


    The most important one; it is too based on ones selfish need and too little for the benefit of others. Maybe it all boils down to the selfishness of humanity, but if we keep this concept humanity is never going to come to terms with one another and I shudder to think what will happen when we get civilised in space.


    Now I know if we do get rid of this something else will have to take its place. I am just speaking my mind here but I thought of the concept of Progression of Humanity and the Delay of humanity and we should have a common goal (e.g. to learn everything, or explore everywhere) so this concept stands true. It would be based on what makes humanity go froward(progress) and what makes us go backwards(delay).

    Now I don't know anyway this can actually be countered but I may just blinded by my own thoughts. So if you see a counter to this then please do tell.

    I don't know what peoples reactions are going to be to this, maybe you think I am just an idiot who shouldn't make these types of threads again or you may of found this to be interesting and a good read, nevertheless let me know what you think, thanks.
    Yes, I believe in this concept, and yes there IS a general sense of what's right or wrong, unlike someone said it here. Killing is bad, helping is good. Don't overthink it.
     
         

  3. #53
    Senior Member Dreckerplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    It'll take several continuous disasters for us to get along with one another...and it can happen.
     
         

  4. #54
    akatsuki Phoenix of Chaos's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    interesting...
     
         

  5. #55
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Somewhat. ...

    It depends on the situation though. (IMO)
     
         

  6. #56
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Good and Evil will always exist because the two can't exist without each other. Moreover, if it wasn't for this concept, humans would be nothing but savage animals who'd destroy everything for their own needs.
     
         

  7. #57
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    this is rather funny. i was meaning to look up the meaning of nihilism, as i had forgotten what it meant, and did this just a few moments ago, decided to open a tab to the base, and here it is. a question about nihilism.

    no, i dont believe in morality in general and hold that any moral is simply an abstract creation of society.

    EDIT: after rereading my post, i would like to clarify. i, like most, dont always practice what i preach. i still hold the morality that was taught to me, the "standard" set most people are raised to believe, and i agree with many on here that without any morality, society would not function, the only difference, i believe it wont function well, but it depends on many factors wether it will function at all (societal size, contents of people, the past presence of morality, etc.) i believe all morality is a creation, and there is no inherent right and wrong. that is all.
     
         
    Last edited by origin29; 01-26-2013 at 02:08 AM.

  8. #58
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    There is no right or wrong, only the consequence of your action.
     
         

  9. #59
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuke Urameshi View Post
    Is this fact or your own foolish thinking? I'm thinking the latter.

    OT: Yes, the basis of right and wrong definitely exist. You know not to steal because it's wrong. You know not to kill because it's wrong. You know that helping others is a kind and right thing to do. Simple enough.
    You know not to steal because there is a law, and you will be punished accordingly. Right and wrong are vague concepts. When you encounter a situation that society (i.e. social media) has not told you how to handle, you somehow are uncertain of which choice is "right" or "wrong."
     
         

  10. #60
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    the concept of right and wrong exists, and is very neccesary. To progress humanity we need humble caring people. Simple as that. If there are no morals than anything goes, and we degrade as society. I may type better later, when i can use my other hand(as i have to hold something i am super glueing.
     
         

  11. #61
    You-Know-Who Mante's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    It's something like this:
    If you don't beleive in God > you don't beleive in afterlife > you don't have a purpose of life > you don't have a concept of good and bad to consider, because (if so), either way all are the same at the end.

    I beleive in God, so yeah...
     
         

  12. #62
    Senior Member ~Kobak~'s Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mante View Post
    It's something like this:
    If you don't beleive in God > you don't beleive in afterlife > you don't have a purpose of life > you don't have a concept of good and bad to consider, because (if so), either way all are the same at the end.

    I beleive in God, so yeah...
    What a false argument...First off, if life's purpose is the afterlife, why the hell are we here at all. Then, just because life ends, it doesn't mean you cannot have goals, and find a meaning...And third, just because we are the same in the end, we are not exactly the same before the end so different people will still have different concepts of right and wrong, just as you think your belief is good and I think it is not that good...
     
         

  13. #63
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Kobak~ View Post
    What a false argument...First off, if life's purpose is the afterlife, why the hell are we here at all. Then, just because life ends, it doesn't mean you cannot have goals, and find a meaning...And third, just because we are the same in the end, we are not exactly the same before the end so different people will still have different concepts of right and wrong, just as you think your belief is good and I think it is not that good...
    Don't want to get into a debate about religion.
    But to answer.
    This world is a test. To decide whether you are rewarded or punished in the afterlife. No one said you cannot have goals or to find your purpose in this world, just don't get so carried away, like all the YOLO crap that flies around.
    -

    My idea on the concept of right and wrong is short. I believe in god, and try my best not to do anything that opposes his words. If I do, then I try to make up for it with good deeds or repenting. Laugh or mock if you want. I believe humans will continue to evolve, and with that society values will change, but in that, we need something to always fall back on, when we forget our ways and IMO is the Qu'ran.

    -

    To further discussion, everyone has quite a different way of perceiving things. To a poor man, stealing a loaf of bread to survive will not be seen as bad, but to the family who has their bread stolen will believe so.
     
         

  14. #64
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    "Right or wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views."

    What someone considers 'right' or 'justly' may very well be 'wrong' or 'sinful' to another.
    I don't believe there's a universal concept right or wrong, but societies themselves will each create their own shared understanding of what is acceptable and what is not.
     
         

  15. #65
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    dammit late for this thread ....
     
         

  16. #66
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Kobak~ View Post
    What a false argument...First off, if life's purpose is the afterlife, why the hell are we here at all.
    to prepare for hereafter.

    Then, just because life ends, it doesn't mean you cannot have goals, and find a meaning...
    yes you can have goals and find a meaning. But at the end you and Hitler are the same. Both died. Both loose their wealth, family etc.

    And third, just because we are the same in the end, we are not exactly the same before the end so different people will still have different concepts of right and wrong, just as you think your belief is good and I think it is not that good...
    so what's the purpose of being good and bad..have a goal or find a meaning?
     
         

  17. #67
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    I dont believe in it ...
    But i dont tolerate ppl doing stupid things just coz they feel its right for them
     
         

  18. #68
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    This thread has a deep meaning... For inteligent people...
     
         

  19. #69
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    I do believe in this system. however, There are many " grey " areas in life , as well as things that are deemed right by some societies and wrong by others .... In the end we are all bound by what our community regards as moral or not.
     
         

  20. #70
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    that concept of wrong and right is moral according to a certain view and belief, so seen everyone has a view or belief, everyone belief in the concept of wrong and right.
     
         

  21. #71
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguis View Post
    Through all the barriers we have overcome as a species this is one we still have a firm grip on, I don't see why we hold so dear to the concept of wrong and right. At the end of the day all it does to the species is bring:
    • separation of between humanity
    • righteous pride
    • unfairness


    The most important one; it is too based on ones selfish need and too little for the benefit of others. Maybe it all boils down to the selfishness of humanity, but if we keep this concept humanity is never going to come to terms with one another and I shudder to think what will happen when we get civilised in space.


    Now I know if we do get rid of this something else will have to take its place. I am just speaking my mind here but I thought of the concept of Progression of Humanity and the Delay of humanity and we should have a common goal (e.g. to learn everything, or explore everywhere) so this concept stands true. It would be based on what makes humanity go froward(progress) and what makes us go backwards(delay).

    Now I don't know anyway this can actually be countered but I may just blinded by my own thoughts. So if you see a counter to this then please do tell.

    I don't know what peoples reactions are going to be to this, maybe you think I am just an idiot who shouldn't make these types of threads again or you may of found this to be interesting and a good read, nevertheless let me know what you think, thanks.
    What an interesting topic, and a refresher from the usual fanboy flamers. Alas, I digress. The concept of 'right and wrong' at its core--how I see it--always been about the justification of human life and dignity. It is tied with our own sense of justice which that in itself can be influenced by our morality. Furthermore, our sense of morality is more often than not influenced, at least in some part, by any sense of spirituality/religious/(a)gnostic/(a)theists world view. They all tie in together; like pieces of a puzzle, or a pie chart. But that's not all.

    Aside from the philosophical aspects, I have other bit more mundane reasons to disagree with your idea, particularly the bold part in the thread. From a Psychological perspective science has demonstrated our innate ability for compassion. And from an evolutionary and anthropological view, we are social animals. So why do compassion and sociability matter? Because they form the biological foundation for our cognitive development of the 'right and wrong' concepts, along with selfishness and greed; the biology is there for both, but our environment is what allows us to learn and expand on either spectrum, and in various degrees. In order for us to progress we as a species ought to focus more on the former (compassion & sociability) rather than the later (selfishness and greed), and not on subverting the concepts of 'right and wrong'. The issue arises when we are inevitably are confronted with Faith, which brings me to my last major point, and your list.

    Believe it or not being part of a group gives us a sense of belonging, whether it's APA (American Psychological Association), a gang, a school, a fraternity, a club, or a Church/Mosque/Synagogue/Temple (to name a few), it empowers the individual with a sense of identity. None which has historically and/or culturally had a greater impact on human behavior than Faith. Sadly, it is the 1st thing I thought of when I read your 2 and 3 of your list. What greater group-identity has caused antagonism than one's world view. How many wars throughout the world has been caused by self-righteous over-piteousness? How much of such behavior judge as unfair due to it? Of course, these are rhetorical questions, but to drive through the point of Faith affecting beliefs and behavior I'm compelled to ask: what are your thoughts on abortion? homosexuality? rape? divorce? killing/murdering of another human being? respect? stealing? incest? lying? pedophilia? or even homosexual marriage? See my point? it's not always clear cut. Or it may be...

    So in regards to the future progression of humanity it's not about foregoing the concepts of 'right and wrong,' because we can't. Rather, how we individuality overcome our own fallacies--usually through the interactions with others--regardless of our upbringing, and be compassionate, while juggling with today's meta-sets of human prevalence: philosophy, science, and faith. Maybe then our space civilization have a chance to progress even further, without loosing the freedom for dogma to a singular goal. Thanks for reading this looong essay (for a chat forum).

    some science sources:
    http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/arti...onate_instinct
    http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/anthro/fa...e/relmodov.htm

    PS-Not that it should matter, but I grew up in non-practicing catholic family, turned atheist before becoming agnostic; shortly explored Islamic/Muslim, and currently am a non-denominational Christian, who's pursuing a degree in physics/biomedical engineering in the dreams of becoming a medical doctor...but I'm soo lazy! ^_^ (I'm working on that. lol)
     
         

  22. #72
    Senior Member ~Kobak~'s Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mante View Post
    to prepare for hereafter.


    yes you can have goals and find a meaning. But at the end you and Hitler are the same. Both died. Both loose their wealth, family etc.


    so what's the purpose of being good and bad..have a goal or find a meaning?
    - That's duplicating the world unnecessarily in the first place.

    - So what? The world goes on. And even if there was afterlife, what difference would it make if Hitler was suffering in hell and I'd go to heaven...

    - LOL you are asking me what's the purpose of good and bad when I said (read my first post in the thread) that these are just concepts, with different meaning to different people. To you it's based on your religion...
     
         

  23. #73
    Member Naruske Izuchiah's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha Josephus View Post
    What if you're weak but smart?
    ditto, I just happen to fall under this category. xD
     
         

  24. #74
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Do you believe in the concept that whats wrong could be right and whats right could be wrong?
     
         

  25. #75
    Servant of Lord Sasuke Ldude's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in the concept of wrong and right?

    Quote Originally Posted by zinescience View Post
    that concept of wrong and right is moral according to a certain view and belief, so seen everyone has a view or belief, everyone belief in the concept of wrong and right.
    Not true. Moral nihilists don't believe in the concept of right and wrong, and psychopaths can't tell the difference.
     
         

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