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  1. #76
    I'm Going Big. SMD. DrProof's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Yeah, I never disagreed on this. My initial answer to this thread, was that it is simply a metaphor used by Kishi. I was simply trying to deem it possible with human logic + manga logic. It could happen, no doubt, but it would require immense luck and anticipation. Say Kakashi was in a thunderstorm for many days, a setup could be made, so that a lightning would strike at a certain location more times than all the other locations inside the storm. Thus having luck and anticipation, it could be timed, so that he would strike the lightning. If one were to simply interact with the lightning momentarily, say less than 0,01 seconds, it would not cause damage to the person. Even airplanes traveling with about 800 kmh are hit by lightnings. The speed, which they travel with, are one of the main factors, for the low-damage taken, allowing the plane to complete its travel. Though I would believe most are landed afterwards just to be sure. Of course an airplane has several other factors, which determine the outcome, however, the people inside it feels nothing, or so I would believe (never tried it). In the end, however, this is a manga. I mean Kishi even explains much at a molecular/cellular level already.
    I agree. And to the statement that Kishi explains into the cellular level etc.. He explains into mythology as well, and scientific notions at times.
     
         

  2. #77
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Yeah, I never disagreed on this. My initial answer to this thread, was that it is simply a metaphor used by Kishi. I was simply trying to deem it possible with human logic + manga logic. It could happen, no doubt, but it would require immense luck and anticipation. Say Kakashi was in a thunderstorm for many days, a setup could be made, so that a lightning would strike at a certain location more times than all the other locations inside the storm. Thus having luck and anticipation, it could be timed, so that he would strike the lightning. If one were to simply interact with the lightning momentarily, say less than 0,01 seconds, it would not cause damage to the person.

    Though as I said, I believe it is a metaphor. Kakashi would simply have no reason to even give it a try, nor is he stupid enough to stay in the middle of a thunderstorm for a longer period of time.

    Even airplanes traveling with about 800 kmh are hit by lightnings. The speed, which they travel with, are one of the main factors, for the low-damage taken, allowing the plane to complete its travel. Though I would believe most are landed afterwards just to be sure. Of course an airplane has several other factors, which determine the outcome, however, the people inside it feels nothing, or so I would believe (never tried it). In the end, however, this is a manga. I mean Kishi even explains much at a molecular/cellular level already.
    Oh, alright then :D
     
         

  3. #78
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    However being off panel is a prediction, or speculation on your part is it not? As we can not actually see such happening. Thus supporting my argument further.
    If you want valid reasoning. take these two instances.

    1)The sharingan's ability to predict an incoming attack is what allowed Kakashi to use Kamui on sasuke's Susano'o arrow.

    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar..._ch230_p09.png
    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...nited!/06a.png

    2)Added to that ability, Susanoo's response to life threatening situations may have been what enabled Itachi's Susano'o to be activated in the nick of time and it obviously wasn't the entire Complete susano'o.

    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...aikage!/07.jpg

    Tough, i take Noddy's statements as a logical premise to that situation.
     
         

  4. #79
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    In regards to Kakashi ever actually having cut a lightning bolt, the part that strikes me is when Gai stated he did it, Kakashi never denied it. Ever since Obito's "death", Kakashi has been more of a mellow character. He's never been one to hype himself up or talk about his "accomplishments"

    If we go by logic similar to that.. Iruka basically said infront the third hokage that he was known as the strongest hokage.. the third knows the capabilities of all the hokage... yet, he didn't deny it.. does that automatically indicate truth?
     
         

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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Then how do you speculate that Itachi can't react at the same speed, and extirpate Kirin?

    OT: Good Debating Owarij, you to Noddy, I can't wait to debate again on other topics.






    True, but that was back in part 1..


    In this hypothetical situation, are you giving Kakashi the best possible circumstances? I mean, is his MS already activated (though I still doubt if he can predict the lightning with MS)?
     
         

  6. #81
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Btw, I agree.
     
         

  7. #82
    I'm Going Big. SMD. DrProof's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    If you want valid reasoning. take these two instances.

    1)The sharingan's ability to predict an incoming attack is what allowed Kakashi to use Kamui on sasuke's Susano'o arrow.

    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar..._ch230_p09.png
    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...nited!/06a.png

    2)Added to that ability, Susanoo's response to life threatening situations may have been what enabled Itachi's Susano'o to be activated in the nick of time and it obviously wasn't the entire Complete susano'o.

    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...aikage!/07.jpg

    Tough, i take Noddy's statements as a logical premise to that situation.
    I don't recall in which the manga promptly stated that: Susanoo is able to construct itself during life threatening situations, and/or taking actions.. As the user of the technique must will it to happen.
     
         

  8. #83
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    I don't recall in which the manga promptly stated that: Susanoo is able to construct itself during life threatening situations, and/or taking actions.. As the user of the technique must will it to happen.
    Indeed. My speculation is based on the panel but I solely included that point being that in your OP you were working with Real-time figures. Disregard it. I'll stick with my first premise, The sharingan enabled itachi to see the incoming attack thus reacting in time.
     
         

  9. #84
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    @PuppyDogGeneral I was looking for something in part that shows the limits of Kakashi's sharingan in terms of predictability. I forgot about that.
     
         

  10. #85
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by -Yami- View Post
    In this hypothetical situation, are you giving Kakashi the best possible circumstances? I mean, is his MS already activated (though I still doubt if he can predict the lightning with MS)?
    Best possible circumstances? No not exactly, it's the same scenario as Sasuke vs Itachi except with Kakashi's evidential replacement. Also, I don't recall MS giving a higher aptitude of foreseeing/envisaging skills.
     
         

  11. #86
    Senior Member EliteKakashi's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    If we go by logic similar to that.. Iruka basically said infront the third hokage that he was known as the strongest hokage.. the third knows the capabilities of all the hokage... yet, he didn't deny it.. does that automatically indicate truth?
    Hiruzen made a joke out of it, saying something about Iruka using past tense. Hiruzen later states he's no longer a match for Orochimaru/and that there isn't a ninja in the village that can match him any longer, and Anko makes a comment about "if only Minato were alive", and Hiruzen said he already sacrificed his life for the village, making no attempt to deny Minato's prime self being superior to him in old age.

    Hiruzen may very well have been the strongest hokage ever, but he made it in to a joking matter alongside Iruka, so no, not really comparable once you consider that and what he stated about Orochimaru.

    I also realize what I said is simply an assumption, by no means am I trying to claim it as fact.
     
         

  12. #87
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Best possible circumstances? No not exactly, it's the same scenario as Sasuke vs Itachi except with Kakashi's evidential replacement. Also, I don't recall MS giving a higher aptitude of foreseeing/envisaging skills.

    So you don't believe it gives better predictability? That makes it easier. I thought you was going to try and use that argument. Anyways, I also don't recall the predictability increasing without an in increase of a tomoe. In the fight against Haku, Sasuke's foresight advanced when obtained the one tomoe. In the fight against Naruto, he saw his movements when he obtained the 3 tomoe. So far, the foresight ability of sharingan seems to increase as an extra tomoe is gained. Thus, Kakashi's foresight remains the same.
     
         

  13. #88
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by -Yami- View Post
    @PuppyDogGeneral I was looking for something in part that shows the limits of Kakashi's sharingan in terms of predictability. I forgot about that.
    It works just as well as any other sharingan in terms of predictability...down to minute scales.

    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na..._ch246_p19.png

    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...aruto41-16.jpg
    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...aruto41-17.jpg
     
         

  14. #89
    I'm Going Big. SMD. DrProof's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by -Yami- View Post
    So you don't believe it gives better predictability? That makes it easier. I thought you was going to try and use that argument. Anyways, I also don't recall the predictability increasing without an in increase of a tomoe. In the fight against Haku, Sasuke's foresight advanced when obtained the one tomoe. In the fight against Naruto, he saw his movements when he obtained the 3 tomoe. So far, the foresight ability of sharingan seems to increase as an extra tomoe is gained. Thus, Kakashi's foresight remains the same.
    Offtopic: People actually use the MS = faster visual prediction/foreseeing? Blasphemy..
     
         

  15. #90
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    Nice, I also agree that they are all the same in terms of fforesight.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Offtopic: People actually use the MS = faster visual prediction/foreseeing? Blasphemy..
    yes I've seen a few that has.


    I'm off for now. :b
     
         

  16. #91
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Why does everyone post like this? (Not everyone, but a handful...) lol

    OT: I disagree.

    Kirin travels factually faster than that of the Raikage's version 2 Raiton Armor: The Sharingan's precognition simply cannot handle such kinds of speed.
    Are you even a hundred and one percent positive that the Lightning Bolt Kakashi sliced with his technique was mixed-in with chakra /or travels at intense speeds i.e Kirin?
    Kind of a retarded question, really.

    And using the word ''extirpated'' is exaggerating.
     
         

  17. #92
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Excellent thread, welome back DrProof. So I wonder, how would Kakashi's Raikiri fare against A's raiton armor? Would he have impaled the Raikage whereas Sasuke only got in an inch?
     
         

  18. #93
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Dr. Proof, if I may ask, please refrain from using such words that will put most users in a state of flabbergast.

    Thank you.

    OT: I concur.
     
         

  19. #94
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Good To Have You Back And Ignore These Ignorant Fools When They Judge Your Post!
     
         

  20. #95
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Great. Your back....
     
         

  21. #96
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimeOfTheSixPaths View Post
    Dr. Proof, if I may ask, please refrain from using such words that will put most users in a state of flabbergast.

    Thank you.

    OT: I concur.
    My vocab has increased since the past months, I cannot refrain my friend.


    Quote Originally Posted by CamW View Post
    Excellent thread, welome back DrProof. So I wonder, how would Kakashi's Raikiri fare against A's raiton armor? Would he have impaled the Raikage whereas Sasuke only got in an inch?
    I'll do a thread on that next, if you would like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Of Thy Soul View Post
    Why does everyone post like this? (Not everyone, but a handful...) lol

    OT: I disagree.

    Kirin travels factually faster than that of the Raikage's version 2 Raiton Armor: The Sharingan's precognition simply cannot handle such kinds of speed.
    Are you even a hundred and one percent positive that the Lightning Bolt Kakashi sliced with his technique was mixed-in with chakra /or travels at intense speeds i.e Kirin?
    Kind of a retarded question, really.

    And using the word ''extirpated'' is exaggerating.
    As I stated before this is a theory, with an Allegory ending. It is a 50/50 chance for you to be right, and I to be right.. Well in general never know.

    OT: Thanks for the compliment
     
         

  22. #97
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Being an educated individual myself (and much older than you), I can tell you that while elevating the level of your diction can enhance the written word and widen the range of concepts that can be conveyed to the masses, there is such a thing as wordiness. I usually like your threads because they lack a familiar fanboyism, but you really did take a lot of "flow" out of your argument. I'm a kakashi fan who has also written a thread about this subject, but i believe that this could seriously have been written with a better prose. Rhetoric aside, I believe that not only could kakashi foresee the inevitable kirin attack, but i believe that he could counter it with his own 'kirin'. Kakshi has demonstrated before that he can copy an attack and unleash it simultaneously with the original user (zabuza water dragon jutsu), plus kakashi has a familiarity with lightning shape manipulation (man best running technique vs pain). Also kirin takes little chakra. Thats my 2 cents anyway
     
         

  23. #98
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    For someone as smart as you are, creating Naruto threads seems so low..IDk
     
         

  24. #99
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    While I can see nothing but solid proof in your statement, DrProof, I would like to point out that I believe that Kirin is a jutsu "powered by natural lightning" and not simply a generic lightning bolt. It is faster and stronger than a regular lightning bolt and therefore, even if Kakashi cut a lightning bolt in two with Raikiri chances are that if the two actually clashed it would either result in one lightning jutsu over powering the weaker one, in this case Kirin over powering Raikiri. Or the two jutsu simply cancelling each other out. Remember that Kakuzu is proficient with all chakra natures because the hearts he has stolen yet Kakashi used Raikiri to negate a high ranked lightning technique, even if it was weaker and slower than Kirin. Im new to NB so if you would like to now tear my theory to shreds, have at it, since my statement is based on parts of the anime and my own opinion and your statement is based on the handbook and other various forms of information.
     
         

  25. #100
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    Re: (DrProof) Raikiri's Extirpating Aptitude

    Mr.proof your finally back. Ive miseed your rather debatable and very interesting threads.

    On the other hand im highly surprised that you would make such a thread, although I do very much agree and have always believed this to be true.
     
         

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