Sasuke without sharingan( =Minato) >Naruto without kurama

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Naruto 618

[MrSimple]

wow. this is one of the worst threads I've read in awhile. sasuke without sharingan would be nejis level. he wouldn't have been trained by oro or learned any of his skills as fast he'd leave himself open to counter attack every time he tried to chidori.he wouldn't have wanted to kill itachi because he wouldn't have been an uchiha and he might have not even became a ninja. naruto with sage mode would rape sasuke without sharingan. how big of a fanboy do you have to be to think sasuke without sharingan is equal to minato?

Naruto without J-man- no rasengan,
Naruto without Asuma- no wind training
Naruto without Kakashi na Yamato- no rasenshuriken
Naruto without J-man no toad summoning
Naruto without Ma and Pa- no SM
Naruto without his father- no Kurama( as I explained early why)

[new sage of 6 paths]

Sh*t,I fell for it again.the failed attempt at making hottest thread

[Chiharu]

Again with this ****???just accept things as they are ffs

[choft]

I disagree. Many high level ninja's raging from the raikage's to some of akatsuki and the sannins are all high level ninja's without a kg, however kakashi and sasuke have more potential. With kakashi i truly believe him losing his eye and gaining the sharigan make him weaker though and stunt his growth, though currently he has learnt to use it much, much better and isn't suffering from its effects. Oro who Hiruzen called a one in a decade genius claimed that his hype was pathetic when he looks at sasuke. And this was after sasuke defeated a bunch of ninja's in base albeit it sound fodders [1]

But when Oro was impressed at Sasuke, that was a Sasuke with a Sharingan; would Sasuke really have been as good without it? (yeah, I don't see him with the sharingan on, but we only saw the aftermath of that fight, so he could have easily deactiviated it).
When I look at Sasuke's achievments, it's similar to Kakashi. Sasuke had chidori at 12, Kakashi at 13. The two are just easy to compare with.

Btw, why do you think Kakashi would have been better without sharingan? Without Sharingan, he can't use Chidori.

Huh?. Because of the sharingan. Whilst i get what you saying about oro wanting the sharingan and what not. I don't see how this relates to sasuke using his own intuition to release the oro. Kakashi doesn't know fuja hoin but again another pointless post. That technique is something that another seal and kinjutsu expert orochimaru didn't know because it was a secret technique. Learning the seals is what is needed, something that if taught to oro, kakashi or sasuke can use, just as much as hiruzen

I'm saying that everything has happened based on Sasuke having Sharingan, things would have been different if he didn't have it. I'm not sure why you said Kakashi doesn't know Fuja Hoin, it was Kakashi who helped to contain the curse mark. What I'm trying to say is that Kakashi knows this sealing technique, but he doesn't know a sealing technique as advanced as RDS.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-74-8/n...hapter-69.html

That is your perception. I do not believe there is such a thing as genius level, if anything fan fiction created by members to boost theirs or a character they favours ego, obviously not you to be specific.

Well, I'm not a minato fanboy, and I don't even think he is the strongest hokage, I just don't see Sasuke on the same level as Minato

[new sage of 6 paths]

Naruto without J-man- no rasengan,
Naruto without Asuma- no wind training
Naruto without Kakashi na Yamato- no rasenshuriken
Naruto without J-man no toad summoning
Naruto without Ma and Pa- no SM
Naruto without his father- no Kurama( as I explained early why)

Oh please......spare me that crap.
Jiraiya is Naruto's godfather,and rasengan is Minato's tech.you really think Jman wouldn't come and check up on his Godson?
Asuma is a jonin of konoha,ur point?
Kakashi and yamato are jonins in konoha,there's no way they could just disappear just to satisfy your assumption
Again,jman is his Godfather!
Naruto mastered sage mode ,so I clearly don't see why he needs Ma and Pa
Naruto without kurama?lots of jutsu's in his arsenal,better chakra control,FTG,unlimited sage mode...ur point?
Pls....

[MrSimple]

Oh please......spare me that crap.
Jiraiya is Naruto's godfather,and rasengan is Minato's tech.you really think Jman wouldn't come and check up on his Godson?
Asuma is a jonin of konoha,ur point?
Kakashi and yamato are jonins in konoha,there's no way they could just disappear just to satisfy your assumption
Again,jman is his Godfather!
Naruto mastered sage mode ,so I clearly don't see why he needs Ma and Pa
Naruto without kurama?lots of jutsu's in his arsenal,better chakra control,FTG,unlimited sage mode...ur point?
Pls....

No, this guy is jealous and being one sided.
So I just make it sure that if it wasn't for the storyline both Sasuke and Naruto are crap on their own.
So if this guy is talking about Sasuke someone should say the case with Naruto.

So is you have accept the fact that all of them told him what to do otherwise he can't even start the training.

[IamRatBoy]

BM Naruto>KM Naruto>Minato>SM Naruto> Naruto without kurama>Sasugay without sharingan
Naruto will have FTG because Kurama will be sealed inside Kushina

[new sage of 6 paths]

No, this guy is jealous and being one sided.
So I just make it sure that if it wasn't for the storyline both Sasuke and Naruto are crap on their own.
So if this guy is talking about Sasuke someone should say the case with Naruto.

So is you have accept the fact that all of them told him what to do otherwise he can't even start the training.

Fu*k,Am being jealous,
Jealous of what,A Manga character,pls bro,just chill out,this aint a contest.
I saw you create abnormalies in your post,I had to question it.I wasn't even the one who created Limitations to sasuke's powerups,and saying am jealous of a manga character.....that's childish man again.
Am not one to bash any character and end up exchanging insults with a fanboy.

[MrSimple]

Fu*k,Am being jealous,
Jealous of what,A Manga character,pls bro,just chill out,this aint a contest.
I saw you create abnormalies in your post,I had to question it.I wasn't even the one who created Limitations to sasuke's powerups,and saying am jealous of a manga character.....that's childish man again.
Am not one to bash any character and end up exchanging insults with a fanboy.

Next time read carefully. I was talking to that guy who was being upset of how Sasuke gain his power so calm down or gtfo...

[achur]

naruto is a senju remember?and sasuke an uchiha,and we all no sasuke take after itachi the greatest genius of them all after minato,so what u are basicly saying is if sasuke dont have the sharingan that means he wont be uchiha meaning senju naruto pretty much smoke him

[NarutoSageUzumaki]

Naruto without J-man- no rasengan,
Naruto without Asuma- no wind training
Naruto without Kakashi na Yamato- no rasenshuriken
Naruto without J-man no toad summoning
Naruto without Ma and Pa- no SM
Naruto without his father- no Kurama( as I explained early why)

Sasuke w/o Kakashi - No chidori , No taijutsu

Sasuke w/o Orochimaru - No Sword, No Kirin , No Curse Mark

Sasuke w/o Itachi - No MS

Sasuke w/o Itachi and Obito - No EMS , Susanoo no Amateratsu no sh1t



your point ?

[Blaze Release]

But when Oro was impressed at Sasuke, that was a Sasuke with a Sharingan; would Sasuke really have been as good without it? (yeah, I don't see him with the sharingan on, but we only saw the aftermath of that fight, so he could have easily deactiviated it).
When I look at Sasuke's achievments, it's similar to Kakashi. Sasuke had chidori at 12, Kakashi at 13. The two are just easy to compare with.

Nope that was base sasuke and on he next page you see he never had the sharingan activated [1]. True sasuke couldv'e deactivated it in the next page, but why would he. The sharingan was never once shown in that fight unlike the other fights of sasuke and that is why, i based this on it.

Btw, why do you think Kakashi would have been better without sharingan? Without Sharingan, he can't use Chidori.

Kakashi got pass the ninja system very quickly however what people fail to understand that though a genius the reasons was because the system was less strict during the time of the 3rd war and i suppose jonins/team leaders were needed to cope. Mikoto even notes this when sasuke asks about itachi's accomplishment [1].

Anyway, the sharingan has helped kakashi alot and due to this has gained him the copy ninja alias however it came at a great cost. If kakashi had kept his original eye, he will not have learnt this 1000 jutsu's however from a very young age he managed shape and chakra manipulation. He seems like somebody who wouldv'e went on and created many techniques on his own and gathered his own fighting style like other great ninjutsu developers like sasori and orochimaru whom by feat aren't rivalled when it comes to ninjutsu development, however he got lazy with the sharingan. His reserves take a hit when he uses the sharigan which limits him to an extent, but also his training capabilities.

Also note that sasuke needed lee without weights speed to use chidori which states that kakashi at that age had lee's speed already. I can go on and on, but kakashi had great potential

I'm saying that everything has happened based on Sasuke having Sharingan, things would have been different if he didn't have it. I'm not sure why you said Kakashi doesn't know Fuja Hoin, it was Kakashi who helped to contain the curse mark. What I'm trying to say is that Kakashi knows this sealing technique, but he doesn't know a sealing technique as advanced as RDS.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-74-8/n...hapter-69.html

I made a typo meant to say kakashi doesn't know shiki fujin. Corrected it after you quoted me. .
In order to learn shiki fujin obviously the seals would have to be taught to the person.

Well, I'm not a minato fanboy, and I don't even think he is the strongest hokage, I just don't see Sasuke on the same level as Minato

Already noted this however people have developed this perception due to member's ruse about the definition of genius and usually believe its always a competiton between itachi and minato or people who aren't blessed with kg are the true definitions of genius in the manga though the manga and db states over and over again that certain people were established geniuses before their kg. Example sasori and orochimaru though people who are greatly underrated in everything and i believe their genius feats surpasses some of the more popular characters.

Also put naruto especially after the latest manga as the greatest genius in the series with sasuke second though when sasuke shows us more he'd be equal

[Omnipotent]

I'll have whatever he's smoking


http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=309427

^Solo'd thread

[MrSimple]

Sasuke w/o Kakashi - No chidori , No taijutsu

Sasuke w/o Orochimaru - No Sword, No Kirin , No Curse Mark

Sasuke w/o Itachi - No MS

Sasuke w/o Itachi and Obito - No EMS , Susanoo no Amateratsu no sh1t



your point ?

Don't tell me something which I and the rest know. What I said early but of course you seem to not read it, was- this kind of threads are irrelevant and excluding Kurama from Naruto and Sasuke having the sharringan is not in a favor of Sasuke because the given power is Kurama not the sharringan( and explained WHY)

Read one of my early posts and deal with it if you can.

[Kusanagi35]

That means EMS Sasuke would rape Minato!

[new sage of 6 paths]

Next time read carefully. I was talking to that guy who was being upset of how Sasuke gain his power so calm down or gtfo...

Seriously,I should get the **** off,.....don't you think you are being a little childish?

[new sage of 6 paths]

That means EMS Sasuke would rape Minato!

Maybe,maybe not.

[T Bogard]

It's in these case where i miss the dislike button What's a shame is that this troll thread is going to hottest

[choft]

Nope that was base sasuke and on he next page you see he never had the sharingan activated [1]. True sasuke couldv'e deactivated it in the next page, but why would he. The sharingan was never once shown in that fight unlike the other fights of sasuke and that is why, i based this on it.

I would say that he would have deactivated it because the fight ended, we never actually saw the fight, only the aftermath. I never see Sasuke having the Sharingan activated just for the sake of activating it. Hes a cocky guy, when he fought against Deidara, at the end when he thought he won, he deactivated his Sharingan, which pissed off Deidara because he thought Sasuke was looking down on him.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/362/10

Kakashi got pass the ninja system very quickly however what people fail to understand that though a genius the reasons was because the system was less strict during the time of the 3rd war and i suppose jonins/team leaders were needed to cope. Mikoto even notes this when sasuke asks about itachi's accomplishment [1].

I would still say they were similar in ability, both learned chidori around the same age, and I would not be surprised that their level of taijutsu were similar as well. (but this part is assumption)

Anyway, the sharingan has helped kakashi alot and due to this has gained him the copy ninja alias however it came at a great cost. If kakashi had kept his original eye, he will not have learnt this 1000 jutsu's however from a very young age he managed shape and chakra manipulation. He seems like somebody who wouldv'e went on and created many techniques on his own and gathered his own fighting style like other great ninjutsu developers like sasori and orochimaru whom by feat aren't rivalled when it comes to ninjutsu development, however he got lazy with the sharingan. His reserves take a hit when he uses the sharigan which limits him to an extent, but also his training capabilities.

Also note that sasuke needed lee without weights speed to use chidori which states that kakashi at that age had lee's speed already. I can go on and on, but kakashi had great potential

True, he would have not copied so many jutsus, and he wouldn't have been exhausted with chakra due to using the Sharingan, but was he really lazy in his training? How do you know this? This was a time when Kakashi lost his best friend and Rin. If anything, that would inspire him to train even harder than ever, so I'm not really sure about this part. Maybe he might have, but he could have been worst as well, this has now gotten to the stage where it's just guessing and speculation with no manga facts to back it up. xD

I made a typo meant to say kakashi doesn't know shiki fujin. Corrected it after you quoted me. .
In order to learn shiki fujin obviously the seals would have to be taught to the person.

Hmm, well maybe they could have learnt RDS, considering that Minato died when Kakashi was young. Even so, we can't really say for sure because this is now just bordering into assumptions and speculations.

Also put naruto especially after the latest manga as the greatest genius in the series with sasuke second though when sasuke shows us more he'd be equal

Naruto would be on Minato's level as a genius or higher, I agree. (developing rasengan further than Minato, better chakra giver, mass shadow clones allows Naruto to learn super fast) and I believe that Itachi would have been as well. One thing with Itachi, is that he learnt much faster than Sasuke. Itachi learnt fireball technique instantly, Sasuke one week. But with Sasuke (without sharingan), I'm not so sure, I believe he is not as great a genius as Minato, and I think there are different level of geniuses.

[Boston Rob]

Sasuke without shaRINgan = Mino without flying troll tardboy technique

[Blaze Release]

I would say that he would have deactivated it because the fight ended, we never actually saw the fight, only the aftermath. I never see Sasuke having the Sharingan activated just for the sake of activating it. Hes a cocky guy, when he fought against Deidara, at the end when he thought he won, he deactivated his Sharingan, which pissed off Deidara because he thought Sasuke was looking down on him.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/362/10

But if you noticed on that page it shows sasuke with the sharingan then deactivates it. In this case it never showed the sharingan. Similarly he easily got rid off one of the people with the curse mark in base with kenjutsu without the sharingan.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/349/14

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/349/15


Again the sharigan was never shown

I would still say they were similar in ability, both learned chidori around the same age, and I would not be surprised that their level of taijutsu were similar as well. (but this part is assumption)

True, he would have not copied so many jutsus, and he wouldn't have been exhausted with chakra due to using the Sharingan, but was he really lazy in his training? How do you know this? This was a time when Kakashi lost his best friend and Rin. If anything, that would inspire him to train even harder than ever, so I'm not really sure about this part. Maybe he might have, but he could have been worst as well, this has now gotten to the stage where it's just guessing and speculation with no manga facts to back it up. xD

If i remember correctly kakashi noted that he has let himself go a bit and needed to release kaimon to make it [1]

Hmm, well maybe they could have learnt RDS, considering that Minato died when Kakashi was young. Even so, we can't really say for sure because this is now just bordering into assumptions and speculations.

See no reason why if the handseals were taught to kakashi/sasuke/oro they couldn't use it

Naruto would be on Minato's level as a genius or higher, I agree. (developing rasengan further than Minato, better chakra giver, mass shadow clones allows Naruto to learn super fast) and I believe that Itachi would have been as well. One thing with Itachi, is that he learnt much faster than Sasuke. Itachi learnt fireball technique instantly, Sasuke one week. But with Sasuke (without sharingan), I'm not so sure, I believe he is not as great a genius as Minato, and I think there are different level of geniuses.

True sasuke learnt katon at a older age and went through developed later than itachi, but sasuke had always had more potential than him. Fair point of your opinion but id still put naruto/sasuke has greater geniuses with more potential than itachi/minato. Oro and sasori also rival these two mary sues, with these two characters cannonically speaking have created far more techniques than any body else

[NarutoSageUzumaki]

Don't tell me something which I and the rest know. What I said early but of course you seem to not read it, was- this kind of threads are irrelevant and excluding Kurama from Naruto and Sasuke having the sharringan is not in a favor of Sasuke because the given power is Kurama not the sharringan( and explained WHY)

Read one of my early posts and deal with it if you can.

Naruto w/o Kurama is Still as strong as MS Sasuke






And Dude - EMS is ( if u did not forget ) a Given Power by Itachi and Obito



So yes , It is Similar

[Uchicha Macho]

you make some valid points but think about sasuke's lightning abilities, his main attack for finishing off opponents was chidori in part 1. that saying, he would of NEVER learned that without somehow copying the speed of rock lee( someone who almost RAPED him in part 1 with the sharigan ill have you know) with his sharigan, so thattakes away one of his moves.

how kakashi know how to use his lightning release?We saw kakashi was able to do it before he had his sharingan when he was fighting minato during training session .

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

This is stupid. Sharingan and Kurama was theirs the moment they were born, so people who try and take it away from them are either butthurt, or mad. As stupid as it is to compare a non sharingan Sasuke, to Minato, what can we do? I've deemed this a troll thread. Sasuke had immense talent, before the sharingan, but that was bound to be limited. It's the sharingan that allows him to do what he does. Imagine Sasuke W/out these abilities;

- Chidori - Sharingan needed to keep up with the speed, as stated by Minato. Thus leading to no Kirin, and no variants.

- The big 3 MS Techs. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o

- Any form of Genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu comes from his Sharingan, that will be lost.

- Decreased reflexes. Used the Sharingans perceptive ability to dodge A

Comparing that to Minato? .