Sasuke without sharingan( =Minato) >Naruto without kurama

[MrSimple]

This is stupid. Sharingan and Kurama was theirs the moment they were born, so people who try and take it away from them are either butthurt, or mad. As stupid as it is to compare a non sharingan Sasuke, to Minato, what can we do? I've deemed this a troll thread. Sasuke had immense talent, before the sharingan, but that was bound to be limited. It's the sharingan that allows him to do what he does. Imagine Sasuke W/out these abilities;

- Chidori - Sharingan needed to keep up with the speed, as stated by Minato. Thus leading to no Kirin, and no variants.

- The big 3 MS Techs. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o

- Any form of Genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu comes from his Sharingan, that will be lost.

- Decreased reflexes. Used the Sharingans perceptive ability to dodge A

Comparing that to Minato? .

Once again it wasn't the moment they were born. It was the moment Sasuke was born and even before.

If it wasn't Obito, Kushina would still be the jin.
Naruto receive that power after his first breath.

Whether you sympathy him more than Sasuke or you can't accept that excluding that power of Naruto doesn't mean it's in favor of a man having his power in his dna.

Did someone sealed it inside Sasuke, no one did.
Being the best choice and having the power in your dna are two different things.

So if people are continue to making these kind of irrelevant threads it should be MSvsSM.

[Forbidden Twilight]

how kakashi know how to use his lightning release?We saw kakashi was able to do it before he had his sharingan when he was fighting minato during training session .

I agree with you fully on that but remember that kakashi was only able to fully perfect that technique because he was fast enough and he had obito's sharigan. Speed and the sharigan were the key factors to learning that jutsu and you cant disagree that 13 year old kakashi was faster than 13 year old sasuke.

[captainEO]

This is stupid. Sharingan and Kurama was theirs the moment they were born, so people who try and take it away from them are either butthurt, or mad. As stupid as it is to compare a non sharingan Sasuke, to Minato, what can we do? I've deemed this a troll thread. Sasuke had immense talent, before the sharingan, but that was bound to be limited. It's the sharingan that allows him to do what he does. Imagine Sasuke W/out these abilities;

- Chidori - Sharingan needed to keep up with the speed, as stated by Minato. Thus leading to no Kirin, and no variants.

- The big 3 MS Techs. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o

- Any form of Genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu comes from his Sharingan, that will be lost.

- Decreased reflexes. Used the Sharingans perceptive ability to dodge A

Comparing that to Minato? .

WTF are you talking about?

You think Sasuke (hailed a genius his entire life) would have difficulty learning FTG or Reaper Death Seal or Rasengan?

You serious? No srsly, reconsider that. Your stance isn't very clever.

The kid who totally outperformed, no, thoroughly trounced everyone in his generation at the academy by being exceptionally skilled and having incredible insight...who throughout has shown analogous characteristics to every talent noted in the story. Wow


Finally, Sharingan and Kurama are incomparable. Sharingan is part of Sasuke's genetic code; it so makes up a part of his essence that it would be like stripping him of his eye colour or removing his intellect (which is genetic incaseyoudon'tknow).

[Uchicha Macho]

This is stupid. Sharingan and Kurama was theirs the moment they were born, so people who try and take it away from them are either butthurt, or mad. As stupid as it is to compare a non sharingan Sasuke, to Minato, what can we do? I've deemed this a troll thread. Sasuke had immense talent, before the sharingan, but that was bound to be limited. It's the sharingan that allows him to do what he does. Imagine Sasuke W/out these abilities;

- Chidori - Sharingan needed to keep up with the speed, as stated by Minato. Thus leading to no Kirin, and no variants.

- The big 3 MS Techs. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o

- Any form of Genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu comes from his Sharingan, that will be lost.

- Decreased reflexes. Used the Sharingans perceptive ability to dodge A

Comparing that to Minato? .

Kurama is not naruto original power because naruto is tailbeast host like killerbee and the other 1-7 tail beasts.Mito and naruto mom were also tail beast hosts ,there were not relative of each other.Naruto was given kurama from after he was born.They all just given the kurama not born with it.There naruto is useless

[Exaar]

WTF are you talking about?

You think Sasuke (hailed a genius his entire life) would have difficulty learning FTG or Reaper Death Seal or Rasengan?

You serious? No srsly, reconsider that. Your stance isn't very clever.

The kid who totally outperformed, no, thoroughly trounced everyone in his generation at the academy by being exceptionally skilled and having incredible insight...who throughout has shown analogous characteristics to every talent noted in the story. Wow


Finally, Sharingan and Kurama are incomparable. Sharingan is part of Sasuke's genetic code; it so makes up a part of his essence that it would be like stripping him of his eye colour or removing his intellect (which is genetic incaseyoudon'tknow).

Yes sasuke would struggle to Learn FTG or RDS, let alone master them.

He has shown no skills in the area of S/T or Sealing.

Rasengan would take abit of training but he could learn it.

[kibainuzuka]

once I see your username I knowed what will you say

[Blaze Release]

Exaar i hope you know that sasuke has shown plentiful use of s/t techniques and knolwedge on fuinjutsu

[Turson]

Seriously though, SM Naruto would own Sasuke without Sharingan.

[Exaar]

i hope you know that sasuke has shown plentiful use of s/t techniques

Since when has sasuke used any kind of S/T besides for summoning, Unless i've missed something.

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

WTF are you talking about?

You think Sasuke (hailed a genius his entire life) would have difficulty learning FTG or Reaper Death Seal or Rasengan?

You serious? No srsly, reconsider that. Your stance isn't very clever.

The kid who totally outperformed, no, thoroughly trounced everyone in his generation at the academy by being exceptionally skilled and having incredible insight...who throughout has shown analogous characteristics to every talent noted in the story. Wow


Finally, Sharingan and Kurama are incomparable. Sharingan is part of Sasuke's genetic code; it so makes up a part of his essence that it would be like stripping him of his eye colour or removing his intellect (which is genetic incaseyoudon'tknow).

FTG... RDS? Tell me where the heck he's gonna learn them from. Cos' Kakashi sure as hell doesn't know them.

Yeah, he was skilled in the academy. But look how far that got Sakura, and all the others. They were limited. As an Uchiha, Sasuke was bound to get far. His heritage allowed him to do so, given the abilities and bonuses the sharingan allows

Point is, don't strip them of anything.

Kurama is not naruto original power because naruto is tailbeast host like killerbee and the other 1-7 tail beasts.Mito and naruto mom were also tail beast hosts ,there were not relative of each other.Naruto was given kurama from after he was born.They all just given the kurama not born with it.There naruto is useless

LOL. Strip Kurama, and he would still have SM. Naruto was given Kurama for a reason, and had it since the start of the series. Deal with it. It's his power.

[captainEO]

Yes sasuke would struggle to Learn FTG or RDS, let alone master them.

He has shown no skills in the area of S/T or Sealing.

Rasengan would take abit of training but he could learn it.

I had several counter-arguments at my disposal but I decided to go with these two:

Well, it isn't a case of Sasuke strictly learning those techniques rather it's him having spent close to his entire life relying on Sharingan to create jutsu suited for it. That's the problem. The point is, his skill level could be almost limitless...

For instance, he could learn Snake Sage Mode, shadow Sarutobi's techniques or really any S-rank nin that doesn't have KG. There are endless opportunities.

Anyway, that's like saying Minato could never master Kirin or Chidori because he has never shown any skills in the areas of elemental ninjutsu despite the fact that he's been called a genius/exceptional talent/excelled at a ninja academy that trains future shinobi in several forms of ninja art.

You could swap that with fire style or Amaterasu, really anything.

Continuing from that...Sasuke is a genius; he excels everywhere hence his top spot at the academy.

I have more proof to say that he could learn those techniques based on his characterization than you have to say otherwise on really no grounds.

[Honord Sage]

Sage mode docent need to land a direct Hit to cause massive deadly results ask Nagato/Pain about that, Frog Taijutsu can't be copied if your not a Sage. Sasuke without Sharigan can't mach Naruto's strength nor speed.

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

I had several counter-arguments at my disposal but I decided to go with these two:

Well, it isn't a case of Sasuke strictly learning those techniques rather it's him having spent close to his entire life relying on Sharingan to create jutsu suited for it. That's the problem. The point is, his skill level could be almost limitless...

For instance, he could learn Snake Sage Mode, shadow Sarutobi's techniques or really any S-rank nin that doesn't have KG. There are endless opportunities.

Anyway, that's like saying Minato could never master Kirin or Chidori because he has never shown any skills in the areas of elemental ninjutsu despite the fact that he's been called a genius/exceptional talent/excelled at a ninja academy that trains future shinobi in several forms of ninja art.

You could swap that with fire style or Amaterasu, really anything.

Continuing from that...Sasuke is a genius; he excels everywhere hence his top spot at the academy.

I have more proof to say that he could learn those techniques based on his characterization than you have to say otherwise on really no grounds.

That's just it. Sasuke is more than capable of learning any jutsu in the manga, so to speak. But the OP is saying he's equal to Minato, without sharingan, when the majority of his current jutsu depend on the sharingan. So how can one even compare that to Minato?

[captainEO]

That's just it. Sasuke is more than capable of learning any jutsu in the manga, so to speak. But the OP is saying he's equal to Minato, without sharingan, when the majority of his current jutsu depend on the sharingan. So how can one even compare that to Minato?

Well, true.

It's really difficult to say where they'd stand if certain parts of the manga were shifted. Naruto could likely have been really powerful if he grew up with his dad (and never been a jinchuriki). Sasuke could have been anywhere, really, though I suppose his Sharingan really does give him an edge.

[Uchicha Macho]

That's just it. Sasuke is more than capable of learning any jutsu in the manga, so to speak. But the OP is saying he's equal to Minato, without sharingan, when the majority of his current jutsu depend on the sharingan. So how can one even compare that to Minato?

the raikage and his clanmen can use ligtning release effectly without sharingan.Sasuke have lightning release also why he cannot use it effectively?

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

the raikage and his clanmen can use ligtning release effectly without sharingan.Sasuke have lightning release also why he cannot use it effectively?

:flaw:

The bonus granted by Chidori is it grants the user stabbing speed. The speed cannot be controlled, unless you have sharingan. Hence why Kakashi taught it to Sasuke, hence why Minato told him to stop using it. Kakashi couldn't see where he was going, losing control of his body. That nearly got him killed, had it not been for Minato.

With chidori came all his variants, can you see where I'm coming from?

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Well, true.

It's really difficult to say where they'd stand if certain parts of the manga were shifted. Naruto could likely have been really powerful if he grew up with his dad (and never been a jinchuriki). Sasuke could have been anywhere, really, though I suppose his Sharingan really does give him an edge.

Exactly man

[Uchicha Macho]

FTG... RDS? Tell me where the heck he's gonna learn them from. Cos' Kakashi sure as hell doesn't know them.

Yeah, he was skilled in the academy. But look how far that got Sakura, and all the others. They were limited. As an Uchiha, Sasuke was bound to get far. His heritage allowed him to do so, given the abilities and bonuses the sharingan allows

Point is, don't strip them of anything.



LOL. Strip Kurama, and he would still have SM. Naruto was given Kurama for a reason, and had it since the start of the series. Deal with it. It's his power.

Kurama is just a cheat code just like plotsheild and talk no jutsu

[Space Cowboy]

Kurama is just a cheat code just like plotsheild and talk no jutsu

Youre an idiot.

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Lmao, you're helpless man. And hey, don't cry when Naruto spanks his ass, and leaves him grovelling on the floor :lmao:

[L Lawliet]

Pointless thread is pointless.

Seriously, how do you even dare compare Minato to Sasuke, with or without Sharingan? Sasuke wasn't born a genius. Sasuke became a genius because he spent most of his time with Itachi, who by that time was a genius. Training with a genius for enough time and being related to him so strongly will eventually make you a genius as well. It's not something you get with being born. That being said, Minato is even more of a genius than Itachi, and if Naruto hadn't have Kurama sealed witihin him, he would have grown up alongside that Minato and Kushina.

Furthermore, being on a Jiinchuuriki's womb (especially the Kyuubi Jiinchuuriki), will doubtlessly give the baby a share of the Bijuu's chakra. Taking this into account, if Naruto had grown up with his parents and Sasuke hadn't been born with a Sharingan, Naruto would logically be far stronger. And by the time Naruto's 15 or 16, he would already have mastered Hiraishin no Jutsu, Rasengan, Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken, Sage Mode and Sealing Techniques from both his mother, and his mother's mother. That being said, I can't possibly comprehend what would make Sasuke with or without Sharingan stronger than a Naruto with no Kurama.

Of course, Sasuke fanboys oftenly try to take Kurama out from Naruto without realizing the circumstances in which that would be even possible. They don't realize that Naruto without Kurama means no Kurama attack, no Obito going to Konoha, and no parents dying. And if you still want to make Obito attack Konoha, then either Kushina or Minato ALONE would have died. Naruto would still have one of his parents. And something that stays with Naruto regardless of which parent he grows up with is Sage Mode, which by itself is already more powerful than 3 tomoe Sharingan and even Mangekyou Sharingan.

Sasuke with no Sharingan can only happen if Sasuke wasn't born an Uchiha or if he had become blind. If he wasn't born an Uchiha, he would not have grown up alongside Itachi, so being a genius is not even guaranteed. For those who say that Kakashi was a genius by himself... NOPE. He grew up with the White Fang. Duh. If Sasuke wasn't born an Uchiha, I think it's even possible he didn't take any interest in being a Ninja, to begin with. If Sasuke had become blind, however, his only chance of salvation would be transplanting another Uchiha's eyes, which makes him be indebted with Obito.

Sasuke's debt to Obito is not the same relationship as Naruto with his parents. Naruto's parents love their son dearly, and Minato's sealing Kyuubi inside Naruto was not only for saving Konoha but also because he loved his son and he knew Naruto would eventually master the Kyuubi. Obito's case with Sasuke, Obito doesn't give a **** about him. Sasuke's a pawn in Obito's eyes. Stated by Obito himself. Whether Sasuke lives or dies, has a Sharingan or not, is not relevant for Obito's plans. It would help him somehow to have Sasuke's EYES, but not Sasuke. So Sasuke owes Obito more than you fanboys can even realize.

So, if you take Kurama from Naruto, you are also taking out the Kurama attack on Konoha, or one of his parents at best. Growing up alongside Minato would make anyone, even Sakura, a genius. Minato loved his son. Why wouldn't he train his son to be as strong or even stronger than he is? Not to mention that Naruto's chakra by itself is already greater than many, possibly than Minato's, and being born from Kyuubi's Jiinchuriki would give him some part of his chakra... Which would make Naruto as strong as he is now in canon, and several shades cooler than what he is.

Sasuke never had any interest on being a shinobi other than being on pair with Itachi and eventually surpassing him. Taking out his Sharingan priviledge would mean taking out his belonging to the Uchiha family, which means taking out his relationship with Itachi, which also means to take out Sasuke's genius and possibly even his being a shinobi in the first place. And if we're talking about blindness, then he would have had to rely on Obito as much as he had to in canon.

So no, your thread has no sense of logic at all. Whenever you are going to take Kurama from Naruto or the Sharingan from Sasuke, you also need to be aware of the only possible circumstances in which those events could happen. There is no such thing as Sasuke being an Uchiha and not having a Sharingan, and no such thing as Minato doing Shiki Fujin to seal the Kyuubi and not putting it inside his son. The whole purpose behind Minato's Shiki Fujin on that night was to make Naruto a Jiinchuuriki. Sasuke was born in the Uchiha for a reason. Obito made an attack on Konoha with the Kyuubi, giving Minato a reason to do what he did.

And by the way, your grammar is complete S H I T. It hurts my eyes to read what you write. If that can be called writing at all, that is.

[Uchicha Macho]

HEy dumbass - Sasuke needs Amateratsu to prep Kirin

HOW WILL HE MAKE AMATERATSU IF HE DOES NOT HAVE SHARINGAN ?




- Just tell Naruto to wait untill it rains ?

i believe there is two way kirin could be form.Sasuke was about to use kirin when he meet team 7 in orichimaru base in part 2.It did seem sasuke was about to use his chakra to stimulate the atmosphere for the jutsu

Orichimaru told him not to use that jutsu,later down the series we found out the jutsu was kirin when he faught itachi

[L Lawliet]

i believe there is two way kirin could be form.Sasuke was about to use kirin when he meet team 7 in orichimaru base in part 2.It did seem sasuke was about to use his chakra to stimulate the atmosphere for the jutsu

Orichimaru told him not to use that jutsu,later down the series we found out the jutsu was kirin when he faught itachi

Yet Sasuke has never shown us Kirin again, has he? So currently, we have no proof that Sasuke would be able to use Kirin again.

[Uchicha Macho]

Yet Sasuke has never shown us Kirin again, has he? So currently, we have no proof that Sasuke would be able to use Kirin again.

Because he have other jutsu in his arsenal.When sasuke got MS ,he was force to fight killerbee,5 kages and their body guard,follow by Danzo because Obito/Tobi wanted sasuke to go blind inorder to use Itachi eyes for EMS..He was force to use his MS skill because killerbee and A were lightning release user,the enviroment sasuke faught the kage was inside a building,kirin was not suited in those situation.

[Space Cowboy]

Because he have other jutsu in his arsenal.When sasuke got MS ,he was force to fight killerbee,5 kages and their body guard,follow by Danzo because Obito/Tobi wanted sasuke to go blind inorder to use Itachi eyes for EMS..He was force to use his MS skill because killerbee and A were lightning release user,the enviroment sasuke faught the kage was inside a building,kirin was not suited in those situation.

So with Sasuke being able to use kirin at all times regardless of atmospheric turbulence, he must be the most OP character in the manga right?