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    Sound Training

    Ready for training, kind sir.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Huzzah!


    Alrighty, let's set the first steps to this long journey ahead of us!

    First, I'd like to discuss your knowledge of sound, what you know already.
    You can use wikipedia, or any other source before answering, just make sure to let me know what you understand and what you don't, so we can discuss that much before we start with anything. Sound is one of the more theoretical and scientific based elements (how we use it anyways), so I believe (as I told you before) that we need to take such an approach as well!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Alright to start simple and on a more realistic note, Sound to me is created through the vibrating frequencies or waves released through various means (i.e. radio waves, telephone waves, etc) that are generally unregistered to use until they react with our nervous system and depending on the frequency of the waves, different pitches and sounds are created and heard. Depending on the length of each wave, the frequency will be either high, which means short, compressed waves or the frequency will be low, which means long, drawn out waves. The easiest way to explain the last part if comparing it to a song. When you speed the song up, the voices raise in pitch and the general speed of the song is increased, basically causing the waves to be emitted quicker and more compressed and vice versa with slowing the song down. I remember something vaguely from school about waves being numbered or something like that, though that might apply to waves in general and not specifically sound waves, could be light waves or something. ><

    On a rp note, I believe Sound to be the user to manipulating the wind around him, causing the frequencies to vibrate and using wind chakra to allow them to travel to their location and given the speed our nervous system communicates with the brain, whatever effect the particular sound jutsu has it felt near instantly. The few times I've seen Sound being used in the anime were doing the Chuunin exams and there was this guy who had a sugery on his arm to release sound waves that caused near instant paralysis and nasuea against Lee so that ties in with what I was saying earlier. But I also saw something where someone used sound waves to cause an incoming earth jutsu to shatter and the upgraded version of it caused a great amount of earth to break. That leads me to think that Sound can also be used very effectively against Earth jutus and other elements with a physical form, but the way of how it's actually done is a bit sketchy to me because in theory, if you are able to destroy a gigantic piece of earth and stone, why wouldn't one be able to apply that to a person? But I think it's done similar to the above way (which I'll call the illusionary way for means of easy referencing xD). The guy who used it released what looked like a massive burst of sound waves, which now I think to have been short waves with a very high frequency that either matched or exceeded the frequency of said earth attacks and caused them to explode (?)

    Also, something confused me about Sound earlier; I remember a fight where Mugi used a sound tech and it traveled through the earth much quicker than it did in the air. I always thought that sound travels through free air much quicker than a dense object but that doesnt appear to be the case. Care to explain why sound travels through denser objects faster and what that means in our RP? Like would an Akimichi be more effected while he is in a state such as Human Boulder than a Hozuki member would be while he is in water form?

    Edit: lol, mini wall of text
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Just before we go on:

    - Bold means very important;
    - italic means good to know;
    - orange & italic are small assignments for your next reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    Alright to start simple and on a more realistic note, Sound to me is created through the vibrating frequencies or waves released through various means (i.e. radio waves, telephone waves, etc) that are generally unregistered to use until they react with our nervous system and depending on the frequency of the waves, different pitches and sounds are created and heard. Depending on the length of each wave, the frequency will be either high, which means short, compressed waves or the frequency will be low, which means long, drawn out waves. The easiest way to explain the last part if comparing it to a song. When you speed the song up, the voices raise in pitch and the general speed of the song is increased, basically causing the waves to be emitted quicker and more compressed and vice versa with slowing the song down. I remember something vaguely from school about waves being numbered or something like that, though that might apply to waves in general and not specifically sound waves, could be light waves or something. ><
    Ok, it's not bad, but it can be a bit more cleared up. At the beginning, I felt like you threw in a lot of terms about sound in one big pot and your respond was the outcome. I see you understand parts of it, but not all. I saw in my training with Lili so far that it's better to emphasize on a few things before we start.

    Sound is a pressure disturbance that moves in the form of a mechanical wave (distribution of energy through a medium from one particle to another). Simplified, it's energy moving from one place to another.

    A noteworthy thing in between is that sound moves omni-directional.

    Sound indeed is dependent on a few things. You explained the frequency, but I would like to know it a bit more detailed and also hear an explanation from you on how mediums through which it travels are important.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    On a rp note, I believe Sound to be the user to manipulating the wind around him, causing the frequencies to vibrate and using wind chakra to allow them to travel to their location and given the speed our nervous system communicates with the brain, whatever effect the particular sound jutsu has it felt near instantly. The few times I've seen Sound being used in the anime were doing the Chuunin exams and there was this guy who had a sugery on his arm to release sound waves that caused near instant paralysis and nasuea against Lee so that ties in with what I was saying earlier. But I also saw something where someone used sound waves to cause an incoming earth jutsu to shatter and the upgraded version of it caused a great amount of earth to break. That leads me to think that Sound can also be used very effectively against Earth jutus and other elements with a physical form, but the way of how it's actually done is a bit sketchy to me because in theory, if you are able to destroy a gigantic piece of earth and stone, why wouldn't one be able to apply that to a person? But I think it's done similar to the above way (which I'll call the illusionary way for means of easy referencing xD). The guy who used it released what looked like a massive burst of sound waves, which now I think to have been short waves with a very high frequency that either matched or exceeded the frequency of said earth attacks and caused them to explode (?)
    Wind = cutting power, lightning= vibrations. That's how I was taught. Although, cutting power, i'd rather say repelling/reflecting and crushing power is attributed to wind. About the earth thingie, i'll get back to that later.

    Also, what can you tell me about sound based genjutsus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    Also, something confused me about Sound earlier; I remember a fight where Mugi used a sound tech and it traveled through the earth much quicker than it did in the air. I always thought that sound travels through free air much quicker than a dense object but that doesnt appear to be the case. Care to explain why sound travels through denser objects faster and what that means in our RP? Like would an Akimichi be more effected while he is in a state such as Human Boulder than a Hozuki member would be while he is in water form?

    Edit: lol, mini wall of text
    Again, I will cover after you did your assignments, but no. Sound generally moves faster through earth than through air.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesobi View Post
    Just before we go on:

    - Bold means very important;
    - italic means good to know;
    - orange & italic are small assignments for your next reply.


    Ok, it's not bad, but it can be a bit more cleared up. At the beginning, I felt like you threw in a lot of terms about sound in one big pot and your respond was the outcome. I see you understand parts of it, but not all. I saw in my training with Lili so far that it's better to emphasize on a few things before we start.

    Sound is a pressure disturbance that moves in the form of a mechanical wave (distribution of energy through a medium from one particle to another). Simplified, it's energy moving from one place to another.

    A noteworthy thing in between is that sound moves omni-directional.

    Sound indeed is dependent on a few things. You explained the frequency, but I would like to know it a bit more detailed and also hear an explanation from you on how mediums through which it travels are important.
    Yeah, I tried to post whatever I could remember from Physic class and general science classes but after being out of school so long, you tend to forget a lot of things lol.

    Hmm..I think I explained as much as I remembered but some frequencies are so low or high that our bodies cannot hear them. I don't know the exact levels these are but despite not being able to hear them, we are still affected by them. This is sometimes used in subliminal programming I believe. I remember reading a report that said children are able to hear sounds on a higher frequency than adults so I took this to mean that our hearing naturally fades as we get older. This is obvious though, with many old people going deaf in their old age. Um, some frequencies are above human hearing capabilities and are labeled ultra sound or something, though i dont really understand what that means. Is the sound supposed to be greater than lower frequencies or am I thinking of the wrong definition of ultra? Mediums..I assume you're talking about what the sound waves travel through? Well, obviously I had it backwards thinking that they can travel through liquids faster than solids. My reasoning behind that was that due to the molecules within liquids being far apart due to their vibrating, it would make it easier for the sound to vibrate through it and pass through. But now I think it's the inverse; if the atoms of something are already vibrating greatly, the sound waves travel faster since the vibrations of the object in question are already moving rapidly, allowing the sound to just pass through it faster with no resistance...or am I completely wrong again? I initially thought because solid's molecules are vibrating so fast, that it causes resistance for the sound, making it harder. ._.

    That's all I can think of man. I see you weren't lying when you said training was pretty detailed. I didn't know I should have kept my notes from high school. T_T I feel like a noob again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesobi View Post
    Wind = cutting power, lightning= vibrations. That's how I was taught. Although, cutting power, i'd rather say repelling/reflecting and crushing power is attributed to wind. About the earth thingie, i'll get back to that later.

    Also, what can you tell me about sound based genjutsus?



    Again, I will cover after you did your assignments, but no. Sound generally moves faster through earth than through air.
    ****. Well, genjutsu obviously isn't my strong point, hence me joining Nekura and being a taijutsu specialist but I'll try to explain as best I can. I'd assume they work much in the same aspect as normal genjutsu, but in this case the vibrations released carry the chakra for the genjutsu and since it's harder to block a near instant sound wave, it'd be more effective casting genjutus in this way. Sorry for the crappy answer, but I literally am very bad when it comes to genjutsu.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    Yeah, I tried to post whatever I could remember from Physic class and general science classes but after being out of school so long, you tend to forget a lot of things lol.

    Hmm..I think I explained as much as I remembered but some frequencies are so low or high that our bodies cannot hear them. I don't know the exact levels these are but despite not being able to hear them, we are still affected by them. This is sometimes used in subliminal programming I believe. I remember reading a report that said children are able to hear sounds on a higher frequency than adults so I took this to mean that our hearing naturally fades as we get older. This is obvious though, with many old people going deaf in their old age. Um, some frequencies are above human hearing capabilities and are labeled ultra sound or something, though i dont really understand what that means. Is the sound supposed to be greater than lower frequencies or am I thinking of the wrong definition of ultra?
    Alright, let's start with the basics (you seem to be pretty ok on this part).


    • Frequency

    First of all, a frequency is measured in Hertz. A frequency in theory is how many waves pass a certain point in a certain amount of time. So, basically, the lower the interval, the higher the frequency.



    Now, the cool thing is, adjusting the frequency. A higher frequency is a higher pitched tone, while a lower frequency is a lower pitched tone. If you listen to music and hear the bass, the frequency is lower. You can also feel it in your body a lot more than high frequency tones, because generally those are harder to perceive in the first place. The neat thing is, that this allows us to alter the effects of sound techniques by altering the frequency. That being said, you probably see how versatile sound actually can be, and how it can create different effects. Even if you can't hear something, the sound waves are still there and can still have effects on your body. A key example of this is my not-so-sanitary-custom (see spoiler below)



    Ototon: Kasshoku Bunsho - Sound Release: The Brown Note
    Type: supplementary
    Rank: C
    Range: Short - Long
    Chakra: 15
    Damage: /
    Description: First believed to be an urban legend, it took wesobi a long time next to an insane amount of effort and diapers to achieve completion on this technique. The user start by creating high power sound waves in his throat. The frequency is below 20 Hz, meaning that the human ear can’t hear it. Even though the human ear can’t hear it, the opponent his body will still feel the vibrations. The vibrations cause the opponent’s bowels to involuntarily work, and thus making the opponent lose control of their bowel movement. This results in content of the opponent’s bowels leaving his body. To counteract the effect on the user himself, he also focuses high frequency sound waves around his body, to counteract the effect.
    Note: Can only be taught by Wesobi
    Note: Can only be used once, unless used against members of the Akimichi clan, who eat an enormous amount of food compared to “normal” people. Against them, it can be used twice.
    Note: No other sound techniques in the same turn.


    Note that it says high power sound waves, not high frequency sound waves. There's a big difference.

    Well, to come back to your original statement, indeed, humans can only hear certain frequencies, or a range in between 2 frequencies. Generally, this is about 20 - 20 000 Hertz. Now, as you grow older, your body gets older as well, and you start to have trouble hearing high frequency tones. This is why younger people generally hear a lot better than old people. I was wondering if you speak in a lower voice, if people with hearing problems would understand you better, but I'm unsure (though it makes sense).
    This does not mean that higher/lower frequencies do not effect the body! Remember that!

    About the ultrasonic: Ultrasonic are simply sounds above 20 kiloHertz (20 000 Hertz) and thus above what humans can actually perceive. Other animals, like dolphins and dogs can perceive these (think, the dog whistle). These range from 20 KiloHertz into several MegaHertz. This is also what they use for sonograms (you understand what this is?) and such. Infrasound is the opposite (below 20 hertz)

    Anyways, I would like you to ask me some questions about this general effect (as to broaden both our knowledge) concerning frequencies. With what you just learned, it should be somewhat clear, but still it's nice to stay sharp on the subject.

    Oh, one more thing I'd like to add, and this is particularly useful against Mugi's Radio Frequency/Wave CE. Low frequency sound waves generally move easier through rocks/earth than higher frequency ones. Think about your cellphone, when you move through a tunnel, the reception sucks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    Mediums..I assume you're talking about what the sound waves travel through? Well, obviously I had it backwards thinking that they can travel through liquids faster than solids. My reasoning behind that was that due to the molecules within liquids being far apart due to their vibrating, it would make it easier for the sound to vibrate through it and pass through. But now I think it's the inverse; if the atoms of something are already vibrating greatly, the sound waves travel faster since the vibrations of the object in question are already moving rapidly, allowing the sound to just pass through it faster with no resistance...or am I completely wrong again? I initially thought because solid's molecules are vibrating so fast, that it causes resistance for the sound, making it harder. ._.

    That's all I can think of man. I see you weren't lying when you said training was pretty detailed. I didn't know I should have kept my notes from high school. T_T I feel like a noob again.
    You weren't all wrong, it's just a hard topic to explain if it's been a long time. Some part are wrong, others need some refreshing.


    • Substance it moves/passes through

    Now, realize that sound can move through any medium. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Though we needs some sort of limitations, and it's reasonable to say wind is a good counter to sound if it can be seen (doujutsu) or heard, but at that point it might be too late (depending on how a technique is used and how the effects are). Earth, however, depending on the situation (and the level of understanding of the usage by the opponent) can be a devastating counter as well.
    Now, look below:

    -Speed of sound:
    solid > liquid > gas.


    Sound moves fastes of all through solids. Generally, this is because the particles and atoms in earth are more tightly packed than they are in liquids or gas. So, the closer the atoms/molecules, the faster sound moves.

    - Elastic properties
    There is a catch in between different solids.
    Sound moves faster through rigid solids (i.e. steel, iron) than other things like jelly. This is because solids that are rigid generally mean that the atoms and molecules have a much stronger force of attraction towards each other than in other solids. This is because of the fact that, once moved, they move back to their original position/form more quickly (and thus resulting in a much higher vibration speed). jelly in this case has much weaker attraction between the molecules, that's why it's so "elastic" (not to be confused with elastic properties), and much more flexible.

    - Density
    Next to this, there is the density. Now, more dense substances = more mass. More mass=bigger molecules. Because sound is based on kinetic energy that travels from one point to another, moving through denser objects means it has to use more energy, seeing as it has to move (vibrate) larger molecules. This however is used for substances with the same elastic properties.

    To explain this take two examples with nearly the same elastic properties. Gold and aluminum (Gold = 10.8 psi; aluminum = 10 psi). While they nearly have the same elastic properties, gold is much denser, so it will travel faster through aluminum than gold.

    Another funny thing is, this effect does not quite work the same in gaseous media.

    Let's say it's hot hot hot in one side of the room, and cold cold cold in the other side. The logic explanation is that sound would move faster in the cold air (since it's denser), but that isn't the case!


    Heat, like sound is a source of kinetic energy. More heat = More kinetic energy = more energy for the sound. This leads up to the fact that they can vibrate faster in hot air.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    ****. Well, genjutsu obviously isn't my strong point, hence me joining Nekura and being a taijutsu specialist but I'll try to explain as best I can. I'd assume they work much in the same aspect as normal genjutsu, but in this case the vibrations released carry the chakra for the genjutsu and since it's harder to block a near instant sound wave, it'd be more effective casting genjutus in this way. Sorry for the crappy answer, but I literally am very bad when it comes to genjutsu.
    Well, it's ok. We're here to learn after all!

    In essence, yes you are correct. The sound wave (the vibrations are just a part of it as we've seen beforehand) is in this case (narutoverse wise) how the chakra moves. In a sound genjutsu, your goal is not to do physical damage.

    There are three ways to stop this:
    - Stop the sound from reaching your ears;
    - make sure you don't hear anything (thus block the way to your ear drums or damage your ear drums)
    - Destroy the part in your brain/disable the part in your brain that processes sound.

    A lot of customs appeared that made earth "ear plugs" or things like that, but in theory, those would fail since the sound would travel even faster through the earth than through air. Then again, we need some flexibility on this matter, but if someone continues to argue, you now have a perfectly valid counter to their arguments should the need arise.

    Like you said, sound genjutsus are faster than normal ones, except direct eye contact. Light = generally faster than sound, and visual ones are based on that in theory.

    Now, if you have any questions, shoot, and do your assignment!
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: Sound Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesobi View Post
    Alright, let's start with the basics (you seem to be pretty ok on this part).


    • Frequency

    First of all, a frequency is measured in Hertz. A frequency in theory is how many waves pass a certain point in a certain amount of time. So, basically, the lower the interval, the higher the frequency.



    Now, the cool thing is, adjusting the frequency. A higher frequency is a higher pitched tone, while a lower frequency is a lower pitched tone. If you listen to music and hear the bass, the frequency is lower. You can also feel it in your body a lot more than high frequency tones, because generally those are harder to perceive in the first place. The neat thing is, that this allows us to alter the effects of sound techniques by altering the frequency. That being said, you probably see how versatile sound actually can be, and how it can create different effects. Even if you can't hear something, the sound waves are still there and can still have effects on your body. A key example of this is my not-so-sanitary-custom (see spoiler below)



    Ototon: Kasshoku Bunsho - Sound Release: The Brown Note
    Type: supplementary
    Rank: C
    Range: Short - Long
    Chakra: 15
    Damage: /
    Description: First believed to be an urban legend, it took wesobi a long time next to an insane amount of effort and diapers to achieve completion on this technique. The user start by creating high power sound waves in his throat. The frequency is below 20 Hz, meaning that the human ear can’t hear it. Even though the human ear can’t hear it, the opponent his body will still feel the vibrations. The vibrations cause the opponent’s bowels to involuntarily work, and thus making the opponent lose control of their bowel movement. This results in content of the opponent’s bowels leaving his body. To counteract the effect on the user himself, he also focuses high frequency sound waves around his body, to counteract the effect.
    Note: Can only be taught by Wesobi
    Note: Can only be used once, unless used against members of the Akimichi clan, who eat an enormous amount of food compared to “normal” people. Against them, it can be used twice.
    Note: No other sound techniques in the same turn.


    Note that it says high power sound waves, not high frequency sound waves. There's a big difference.

    Well, to come back to your original statement, indeed, humans can only hear certain frequencies, or a range in between 2 frequencies. Generally, this is about 20 - 20 000 Hertz. Now, as you grow older, your body gets older as well, and you start to have trouble hearing high frequency tones. This is why younger people generally hear a lot better than old people. I was wondering if you speak in a lower voice, if people with hearing problems would understand you better, but I'm unsure (though it makes sense).
    This does not mean that higher/lower frequencies do not effect the body! Remember that!

    About the ultrasonic: Ultrasonic are simply sounds above 20 kiloHertz (20 000 Hertz) and thus above what humans can actually perceive. Other animals, like dolphins and dogs can perceive these (think, the dog whistle). These range from 20 KiloHertz into several MegaHertz. This is also what they use for sonograms (you understand what this is?) and such. Infrasound is the opposite (below 20 hertz)

    Anyways, I would like you to ask me some questions about this general effect (as to broaden both our knowledge) concerning frequencies. With what you just learned, it should be somewhat clear, but still it's nice to stay sharp on the subject.

    Oh, one more thing I'd like to add, and this is particularly useful against Mugi's Radio Frequency/Wave CE. Low frequency sound waves generally move easier through rocks/earth than higher frequency ones. Think about your cellphone, when you move through a tunnel, the reception sucks.




    You weren't all wrong, it's just a hard topic to explain if it's been a long time. Some part are wrong, others need some refreshing.


    • Substance it moves/passes through

    Now, realize that sound can move through any medium. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Though we needs some sort of limitations, and it's reasonable to say wind is a good counter to sound if it can be seen (doujutsu) or heard, but at that point it might be too late (depending on how a technique is used and how the effects are). Earth, however, depending on the situation (and the level of understanding of the usage by the opponent) can be a devastating counter as well.
    Now, look below:

    -Speed of sound:
    solid > liquid > gas.


    Sound moves fastes of all through solids. Generally, this is because the particles and atoms in earth are more tightly packed than they are in liquids or gas. So, the closer the atoms/molecules, the faster sound moves.

    - Elastic properties
    There is a catch in between different solids.
    Sound moves faster through rigid solids (i.e. steel, iron) than other things like jelly. This is because solids that are rigid generally mean that the atoms and molecules have a much stronger force of attraction towards each other than in other solids. This is because of the fact that, once moved, they move back to their original position/form more quickly (and thus resulting in a much higher vibration speed). jelly in this case has much weaker attraction between the molecules, that's why it's so "elastic" (not to be confused with elastic properties), and much more flexible.

    - Density
    Next to this, there is the density. Now, more dense substances = more mass. More mass=bigger molecules. Because sound is based on kinetic energy that travels from one point to another, moving through denser objects means it has to use more energy, seeing as it has to move (vibrate) larger molecules. This however is used for substances with the same elastic properties.

    To explain this take two examples with nearly the same elastic properties. Gold and aluminum (Gold = 10.8 psi; aluminum = 10 psi). While they nearly have the same elastic properties, gold is much denser, so it will travel faster through aluminum than gold.

    Another funny thing is, this effect does not quite work the same in gaseous media.

    Let's say it's hot hot hot in one side of the room, and cold cold cold in the other side. The logic explanation is that sound would move faster in the cold air (since it's denser), but that isn't the case!


    Heat, like sound is a source of kinetic energy. More heat = More kinetic energy = more energy for the sound. This leads up to the fact that they can vibrate faster in hot air.




    Well, it's ok. We're here to learn after all!

    In essence, yes you are correct. The sound wave (the vibrations are just a part of it as we've seen beforehand) is in this case (narutoverse wise) how the chakra moves. In a sound genjutsu, your goal is not to do physical damage.

    There are three ways to stop this:
    - Stop the sound from reaching your ears;
    - make sure you don't hear anything (thus block the way to your ear drums or damage your ear drums)
    - Destroy the part in your brain/disable the part in your brain that processes sound.

    A lot of customs appeared that made earth "ear plugs" or things like that, but in theory, those would fail since the sound would travel even faster through the earth than through air. Then again, we need some flexibility on this matter, but if someone continues to argue, you now have a perfectly valid counter to their arguments should the need arise.

    Like you said, sound genjutsus are faster than normal ones, except direct eye contact. Light = generally faster than sound, and visual ones are based on that in theory.

    Now, if you have any questions, shoot, and do your assignment!
    Hmm, so in arid places such as Suna, Sound would travel through the air faster than if used in Cool air places such as Kiri? There seem to be alot of things to take into consideration when using sound jutsus. Also, kaguyas are capable of breaking the inner bones of their ear canal, making them deaf to sounds. However, if a sound wave hits their body despite them not being able to hear it, wouldnt the wave still affect them?

    About the assignment, what effects would ultrasonic waves have on the body. The definition you gave leads me to believe that animals such as summonings and inuzuka dogs would be the likely targets of these jutsus. Would ultrasonic waves be able to break the sound barrier (also does that create a physical effect? I mean, isn't that what happens with a sonic boom?)

    You said the goal of sound Gen is to not do physical damage. Low frequency waves, like the ones heard in songs with heavy bass, can be physically felt but not heard as clearly as higher frequencies. Would this make them harder to detect until they are felt by the body? Also, i sorta disagree with that statement about physical damage. Low frequency waves would, in theory of course, be perfect for causing physical damage to the enemy.

    Hmm, would it be possible to create a wave that changes in frequency while it is in use, like going from high to low, causing several effects related to this? Also, i have been learning Roku's Music Arts, which I understand to be related to Sound, possibly actual Sound release jutsus in a way. Would i be right in assuming that sound jutsu can be used via whistling or music instrument? And sorry for all the questions and them jumping all over the place lol.
     
         
    Last edited by Kāos; 02-03-2013 at 01:58 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Sound Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    Hmm, so in arid places such as Suna, Sound would travel through the air faster than if used in Cool air places such as Kiri? There seem to be alot of things to take into consideration when using sound jutsus. Also, kaguyas are capable of breaking the inner bones of their ear canal, making them deaf to sounds. However, if a sound wave hits their body despite them not being able to hear it, wouldnt the wave still affect them?
    In simple theory, yes, it would move faster in Suna. You forget however, Kiri is humid and has mist in it. Mist is basically more dense/condensed air with water molecules packed into it. That being said, it would still move faster in Suna, but considering the state of the air in kiri, the sound waves move faster than in regular air. It has several factors depending on it in this case, and I'm ashamed to say I'm not really to familiar all together with it, as it hasn't really been taught to me either (up to this extent). I'll look it up later.

    A sound wave can still hit the body and have effect, it depends on how you use the jutsu. Go back and check my CJ that I posted in the spoiler. It's a clear example of it. The opponent can not perceive the frequencies used, but the effect is still there. If the effect was based upon hearing it, it would have no effect though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    About the assignment, what effects would ultrasonic waves have on the body. The definition you gave leads me to believe that animals such as summonings and inuzuka dogs would be the likely targets of these jutsus. Would ultrasonic waves be able to break the sound barrier (also does that create a physical effect? I mean, isn't that what happens with a sonic boom?)
    Again, ultrasonic and sonic (thus sounds we can't hear and sound we can hear) can be used against everyone, anything. Not only summonings and dogs, but they would suffer from ultrasonic sounds directly, while humans would suffer from the effects created by the soundwaves, not the sound directly. The effects can vary. I'll point it out in the quote below to explain why you disagreeing with me is only so-so correct .

    Anyways, no, ultrasonic waves do not break the sound barrier. Remember, they are just as much sound as another wave, the frequency is just higher, of course, the higher the frequency, the more energy used and thus how faster the sound travels, but how do you travel faster than yourself? Ultrasonic waves are sound, thus they move at their own speed. That is the speed of sound they produce. Breaking the sound barrier/creating a sonic boom is when an object or person moves faster than how fast the speed of sound can travel under the circumstances. Sound moves at a certain speed in certain air temperatures, we know that so far. An airplane causing a sonic boom is an airplane that can move faster than the speed of sound in these circumstances. See what I mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    You said the goal of sound Gen is to not do physical damage. Low frequency waves, like the ones heard in songs with heavy bass, can be physically felt but not heard as clearly as higher frequencies. Would this make them harder to detect until they are felt by the body? Also, i sorta disagree with that statement about physical damage. Low frequency waves would, in theory of course, be perfect for causing physical damage to the enemy.
    In theory, it would not be harder to detect them, it would just take longer to detect them as they move slower. Generally, when you notice a high frequency technique used against you, it's probably too late already. Same goes for low frequency techniques (remember, the speed of sound in general is way too fast to actually do something about in most cases), but it gives you a slightly better chance of reacting. As for your disagreeing, I have to disagree with you really.

    -High frequency is used for damage. Think about sonic grenades. The actually damage the body, and can also cause bleeding (internal or external) and other symptoms to arise.
    - Low frequency is used for "crow control and disorientation". Nausea and stuff like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    Hmm, would it be possible to create a wave that changes in frequency while it is in use, like going from high to low, causing several effects related to this? Also, i have been learning Roku's Music Arts, which I understand to be related to Sound, possibly actual Sound release jutsus in a way. Would i be right in assuming that sound jutsu can be used via whistling or music instrument? And sorry for all the questions and them jumping all over the place lol.
    You could slightly adjust cannon techniques imo (not sure if it's allowed, I've been told by Xylon that it was), but not to extremes. Sound techniques rely on their frequency to cause the wanted effect. You can change the amplitude however. If you want a low frequency to have the same amount of energy as a high frequency, you change the peak-to-peak amplitude of the wave. That causes the energy levels to change. In theory, it wouldn't be allowed, but pratically speaking, there isn't a lot to stop you, but you'll have to channel chakra into it to alter the technique.

    Sound techniques can be used through whistling or instruments. Think of that sound 4/5 (not sure lol) girl, who used a flute against Shikamaru!


    No problemo, I'm here to teach you stuff. Let me know if something is unclear!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    No need to be ashamed, we both can learn from this training session.

    My reason for thinking that ultrasound waves break the barriers are because as you said, higher frequencies move faster than lower frequencies but I see what you mean. Would it be possibly to cause a sound wave to move faster than its suppose to move and break the sound barrier?

    And I concur to your point, higher frequencies would be the ones used for inflicting pain, etc through the waves whereas lower frequencies work best as the genjutu usage, right? One more offensive, the other a blend of both offense and defense, or at least that's one way I see it being used.

    And it was the Sound 4, 5 when you count Kimimaro.

    No further questions on this part, at least none come to mind right now. You've been doing a great job of explaining things so I think my knowledge of sound is being pieced together well. ^_^
     
         
    Last edited by Kāos; 02-03-2013 at 08:18 AM.

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    Re: Sound Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    No need to be ashamed, we both can learn from this training session.

    My reason for thinking that ultrasound waves break the barriers are because as you said, higher frequencies move faster than lower frequencies but I see what you mean. Would it be possibly to cause a sound wave to move faster than its suppose to move and break the sound barrier?
    theoretically speaking, yes, but practically no.
    The speed of sound is the speed sound waves can achieve in a certain environment, certain conditions/situations, etc. An object that is capable of moving beyond that speed is what breaks the sound barrier/creates a sonic boom. Sound itself can't move faster than sound.

    What we call the speed of sound is the speed it achieves under "normal circumstances".

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Kaos View Post
    And I concur to your point, higher frequencies would be the ones used for inflicting pain, etc through the waves whereas lower frequencies work best as the genjutu usage, right? One more offensive, the other a blend of both offense and defense, or at least that's one way I see it being used.
    They both work equally well, but it depends on how the situation is going. I'd go for very high frequency tones (hearable ones) as they get harder to hear, while you will still feel low frequency ones on your body, which could give it away.


    Any more questions? If no, we're starting the NarutoVerse part of sound!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    None come to mind at the moment.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Right, well there are many theories as to why (and we're not even certain) wind and lightning make up sound. The cutting/speeding ability would come from wind. The vibrating nature from lightning, while this also adds to the speed.

    The thing is with sound, that you need extremely well balanced chakra. If you put in too much air, you can cut your vocal cords, and too much lightning... that speaks for itself.

    Of course, you know as well as I do that the RP is related to this, and not the actual narutoverse as sound isn't even a real kekkei genkai.

    Nonetheless, the anime/manga shows us a very versatile usage of sound. We're going to try and recreate that versatility in our way of RP'ing by thinking out of the box, but that's for later on.

    Now (going through standard stuff, it's boring but needs to be done), try sending out a small sound wave (out of your mouth, but be smart and use the correct "organ"/bodypart to create the sound) that acts as a sonar and bounces off a random tree I just happen to come up with to your left.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Right!

    *i channel chakra in my vocal cords, allowing sound to be amplified upon it's creation. As i channel the chakra, i focus lightning chakra in it, allowing the chakra to begin vibrating. As it vibrates, i begin releasing it via yelling while simultaneously molding wind chakra, causing the vibrations to spread outwards towards the aforementioned tree. As they spread out, the low levels of wind chakra present cause the wave to instead bounce back off the tree, instead of cutting through it, and travel back towards me. Upon reaching me, i am aware of how far the tree is away from me due to the sound entering me(or is it bouncing off me as well?).

    Like that or some other way?
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    with less wind chakra. You just cut your vocal cords to pieces. o_o
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Dammit. Luckily I still have that spare set from Roku. D

    *does same thing with lower amounts of wind chakra*
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    (Ototon: Himei Zetsubou no Jutsu) - Sound Release: Scream of Despair Skill
    Rank: C
    Type: Supplementary/Defense
    Range: Short-Mid
    Chakra Cost: 15
    Damage Points: N/a
    Description: The user concentrating chakra into their vocal cords enhancing throat chakra lets out a scream that travels extremely fast in which can be used to deflect projectiles and send opponents flying.
    Note: Travels at 315 speed

    The first jutsu. Tada.
    Mostly, this is used as a defensive one to block incoming things, though in my opinion this is not really how sound should be used. You could use a wind jutsu for the same effect. If you use this, i'd recommend using it as an offensive weapon to increase the speed of your kunai, while it continues towards the opponent itself as well and sends them flying.

    Any thought?
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    I is a sound user now. wease: I still got my grammy speech ready. ^^

    One comes to immediate mind, it says 315 speed but doesnt give anything else. What exactly does that mean for our rp?
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    Hmm, not quite to sure myself. It's fast, that's about all I know. The sound indication is really vague. I'm assuming it's km/h, but that's rather slow if you ask me...
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    If it was in mph, i could see it but its too vague. I'll ask emp about it or ibby .
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training

    metric system x_x
     
         

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