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  1. #41
    Scathach YowYan's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    Death is the payment for sin. When one dies, all the sin he has committed is cleared. At the very least, this is what I have been taught. I can see that you have been taught differently, so a debate between us is futile at this point.
    Death is not payment for anything 0_0.
     
         

  2. #42
    Senior Member muutobirama3rdraikagemizu's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulKiller View Post
    Wrong Jesus is not the son of god he was a messenger to let people know about god and teach them how to pray to god . And let them stop the sins etc. The god never have a son.
    We are all gods sons and daughters

    And i never said god was Jesus was gods son so
    e
    Jesus had a flesh and he wanted his friend back
     
         

  3. #43
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    Death is not payment for anything 0_0.
    That's what I was taught. I see now why religious threads and topics can't be discussed: Too much variations to what we conceive as facts to debate properly.
     
         

  4. #44
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Time for a Bible lecture. Listen up.

    I'll try to make this concise and brief. If you'll look at John 2:11, it says, "This, the first of his signs Jesus did at Cana in Galilee and manifested his glory.

    "This" referring to the wedding at Cana where Jesus turned water into wine. Basically, one of the reasons that Jesus performs miracles, as explicitly stated here, is to manifest his glory and prove he is the messiah.

    There are seven signs in the book of John:
    1. Changing water into wine (2:1-11)
    2. Healing the official's son (4:46-54)
    3. Healing the invalid (5:1-5)
    4. Feeding the multitude (6:513)
    5. Walking on water (6:16-21)
    6. Healing the man born blind (9:1-7)
    7. Raising Lazarus (11:1-44)

    The gospels have always been about who this man Jesus Christ is, and John is no exception. Jesus' identity is manifested on a word and deeds ministry, and here is an anecdote that demonstrates Christ's ability to raise people from the dead. In 11:25-26, right before the resurrection of Lazarus, Jesus says "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die."

    The point: Jesus is life; his actions demonstrate that.

    And it's more than simply "proving a point". Lazarus is a dear friend, and not only that: death is indicative of the effects of sin (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord"). Jesus is not only saddened by the death of his friend, which is a completely normal reaction for ANYONE, he is also angry at the rampant effects of sin. It is his mission to defeat sin and death and he demonstrates his power to do so by resurrecting Lazarus from the dead.

    So no, Lazarus is not "holy enough" to go to heaven because he's Jesus' friend. Romans 3:10 says, "None is righteous, no, not one". That's the point though. That is why God sent his son Jesus Christ. We find life not in ourselves, but in him.

    Source
    I hope this helps. I am a biblical studies major in a private Christian university, and I'd be glad to answer more questions. I don't know all the answers, but this is why I'm learning.

    Edited for clarity and spelling.
     
         
    Last edited by Guilty as Sin; 01-30-2013 at 02:39 AM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    That's what I was taught. I see now why religious threads and topics can't be discussed: Too much variations to what we conceive as facts to debate properly.
    I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. I agree that it is pointless. But, I will say that it does not say that in the Christian Bible at all that your sins are cleared when you die.

    But like I said, I'm not here to argue. I don't feel like having conflict with anybody, lol.
     
         

  6. #46
    Scathach YowYan's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by muutobirama3rdraikagemizu View Post
    We are all gods sons and daughters

    And i never said god was Jesus was gods son so
    e
    Jesus had a fleshlight and he wanted his friend back
    what?..
     
         

  7. #47
    Premium User Riker Slade's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilty as Sin View Post
    Time for a Bible lecture. Listen up.

    I'll try to make this concise and brief. If you'll look at John 2:11, it says, "This, the first of his sings, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee and manifested his glory.

    "This" referring to the wedding at Cana where Jesus turned water into wine. Basically, one of the reasons that Jesus performs miracles, as explicitly stated here, is to manifest his glory and prove he is the messiah.

    There are seven signs in the book of John:
    1. Changing water into wine (2:1-11)
    2. Healing the official's son (4:46-54)
    3. Healing the invalid (5:1-5)
    4. Feeding the multitude (6:513)
    5. Walking on water (6:16-21)
    6. Healing the man born blind (9:1-7)
    7. Raisin Lazarus (11:1-44)

    The gospels have always been about who this man Jesus Christ is, and John is no exception. Jesus' identity is manifested on a word and deeds ministry, and here is an anecdote that demonstrates Christ's ability to raise from the dead. In 11:25-26, right before the resurrection of Lazarus, Jesus says "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die."

    The point: Jesus is life; his actions demonstrate that.

    Yes Jesus is moves emotionally, but why? Lazarus is a dear friend, and not only that: death is indicative of the effects of sin (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord"). Jesus is not only saddened by the death of his friend, which is a completely normal reaction for ANYONE, he is also angry at the rampant effects of sin. It is his mission to defeat sin and death and he demonstrates his power to do so by resurrecting Lazarus from the dead.

    So no, Lazarus is not "holy enough" to go to heaven because he's Jesus' friend. Romans 3:10 says, "None is righteous, no, not one". That's the point though. That is why God sent his son Jesus Christ. We find life not in ourselves, but in him.

    Source
    I hope this helps. I am a biblical studies major in a private Christian university, and I'd be glad to answer more questions. I don't know all the answers, but this is why I'm learning.
    Good points. However, God says He despises all that is wicked. Since Jesus follows the same standards as God, he also despises what is wicked. He loved Lazarus, thus Lazarus was good.

    I see what you're saying though.
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    just because it can doesn't mean we have to kick around the same damn inappropriate subjects over and over. you want to discuss belief systems? might I suggest a more appropriate forum. perhaps one not based on Japanese comics
     
         

  9. #49
    Premium User Riker Slade's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by Susano'o View Post
    I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. I agree that it is pointless. But, I will say that it does not say that in the Christian Bible at all that your sins are cleared when you die.

    But like I said, I'm not here to argue. I don't feel like having conflict with anybody, lol.
    This is the thing I dislike about religious people. Why is it that you need to insist that what you believe is absolute and others are wrong? At least I had the decency to acknowledge that you may indeed be right and that what I believe may be wrong.
     
         

  10. #50
    Member Guilty as Sin's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    Good points. However, God says He despises all that is wicked. Since Jesus follows the same standards as God, he also despises what is wicked. He loved Lazarus, thus Lazarus was good.

    I see what you're saying though.
    First, thank you for reading my post and replying. Let me gently rebuke you by saying that your logic is slightly off.

    What does John 3:16 say? "For God so loved the world....". Naturally, we can conclude that by "world", he means the inhabitants of the world (us). However, are we good? No. But God loves us! That's the beauty of the Gospel. We aren't good. Yet God still loves us and decides to send his son.

    And let me nuance your statement a bit. Jesus follows the same standards of God because he is God. This is what is known as the "Trinity", though I acknowledge that not everyone believes this; although this is what the Scriptures teach, and that is what I go by.

    So you're right. God detests wickedness. Yet even in our wickedness, for some crazy, unimaginable reason, he still cares about us.
     
         

  11. #51
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    According to Islam, Jesus pbuh wasn't crucified and didn't die.His mission isn't finish he will come back to kill the dajjal and save humanity.
     
         

  12. #52
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by Hipster Madara View Post
    Christianity is not the only religion nor is it the best.
    none are the best...

    all of them suck major butt
     
         

  13. #53
    Senior Member muutobirama3rdraikagemizu's Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    what?..
    I am on my phone, but read guilty as sin post
     
         

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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    The whole bible has many flaws in logic in the story you could argue about genesis and Adam and eve even, however there's a contradiction with Jesus doing this, like you said, however he is also human and can make errors of judgment, being emotional could have overpowered logical reason. like the other stories in the bible it's probably fake, something humans can relate to as good, ie: bringing some1 from the dead. As humans can't understand or fathom heaven, it's easier to create something good they can understand.
     
         

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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    This is the thing I dislike about religious people. Why is it that you need to insist that what you believe is absolute and others are wrong? At least I had the decency to acknowledge that you may indeed be right and that what I believe may be wrong.
    this. It's impossible right now to confirm the exist of god or any religion, there is no proof at all and if someone tells you that this must be so, it's a biast statement
     
         

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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    This is my take. A lot of people are Christians because they're afraid of death and want to get a reward for living life. That's it. Whether it be consciously or unconsciously. Lets be honest, barely any that I've met legitly follow the teachings of Jesus. Living in the south, I've seen some pitiful ****. The people at my school are total inconsiderate **** wads. A lot of them go to church. Probably 90% of them. Barely 10% actually act as what I'd imagine how followers of Jesus act. Most of them are probably "saved" or even baptized.

    I feel that praying and asking for forgiveness defeats the whole purpose of Christianity. My opinion though.

    EDIT: I feel my post is a tad bit off topic, my apologies.
     
         
    Last edited by SilverSlick; 01-30-2013 at 03:17 AM.

  17. #57
    Senior Member ~WastelandSociety~'s Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by kickassjutsu View Post
    Jesus was human, felt human emotions and missed his dead friend. Jesus understood the purpose of his death, and that was to bring forgivness to every one. laz died before jesus so he completely missed out on being baptized in his name for the forgivness of all his sins. Even the holiest of holys were covered in sin before jesus died for them. you simply just don't understand the scriputres. A lot of knowledge of the bible comes to you when you spend time with God. or maybe you just over thunk it.
    ^This,well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    Death is the payment for sin. When one dies, all the sin he has committed is cleared. At the very least, this is what I have been taught. I can see that you have been taught differently, so a debate between us is futile at this point.
    lol wut?

    Your death isn't payment for sin. When you die,you get judge by what you did while living.



    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSlick View Post
    This is my take. A lot of people are Christians because they're afraid of death and want to get a reward for living life. That's it. Whether it be consciously or unconsciously. Lets be honest, barely any that I've met legitly follow the teachings of Jesus. Living in the south, I've seen some pitiful ****. The people at my school are total inconsiderate **** wads. A lot of them go to church. Probably 90% of them. Barely 10% actually act as what I'd imagine how followers of Jesus act. Most of them are probably "saved" or even baptized.

    I feel that praying and asking for forgiveness defeats the whole purpose of Christianity. My opinion though.

    EDIT: I feel my post is a tad bit off topic, my apologies.
    I'm not afraid of death.
    If anything if you believe in the afterlife,you won't be afraid of dying.
     
         
    Last edited by ~WastelandSociety~; 01-30-2013 at 03:31 AM.

  18. #58
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by ~WastelandSociety~ View Post
    ^This,well said.



    lol wut?

    Your death isn't payment for sin. When you die,you get judge by what you did while living.





    I'm not afraid of death.
    If anything if you believe in the afterlife,you won't be afraid of dying.
    , let me rephrase that. Not so much death itself but there not being a life after death. As a result, they become religious to fuel their hope and faith for an afterlife. Not trying generalize here.
     
         

  19. #59
    Senior Member ~WastelandSociety~'s Avatar
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSlick View Post
    , let me rephrase that. Not so much death itself but there not being a life after death. As a result, they become religious to fuel their hope and faith for an afterlife. Not trying generalize here.
    Still stand on my point on not being afraid.
    If there's nothing after death,then oh well.
     
         

  20. #60
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    Re: Why I don't believe we'll go to Heaven when we die

    Part of me wants to bash you and part of me wants to say agrees on some few points, so I shall say nothing.
     
         

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