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  1. #1
    In detention iSpeak the Truth's Avatar
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    Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Please read and give me your thoughts.......I know it's long, but it's damn near proper English and worth the read...:o

    The two most dangerous Hokage out of the bunch. The tactical geniuses.

    Senju's are revered for their strong life force, physical energy and immense chakra. They have more raw power over all, possibly even strength as well.

    Hashirama's chakra was the strongest out of them all. So full of life energy that he could photosynthesise plants that he birthed by combining Earth and Water elements of his chakra, on a scale so large, he created forests in an instant. His wounds would heal themselves due to that chakra he possessed. He had a god given ability of supressing the Bijuu with his chakra and controlling them like pets.

    Yes, Hashirama has a lot of power and strength. But power and strength alone do not insure victory.

    We have already seen an example of that in part 1, old Hiruzen, beaten, humiliated, out of chakra, out of strength and out of stamina, still managed to put the Senju brothers and Orochimaru's arms away with his quick thinking and vast knowledge of jutsu. He performed 2 Forbidden jutsus that day, Kage Bunshin and Shiki Fuujin. He was known for possessing a 1000 and performing them efficiently and masterfully! Old age and depleted chakra reserves were his weaknesses that day. Now, he has none, except for the fact that he is under his own students spell.

    Minato.....honesty.....I don't even know where to start, let's just review the Kyuubi incident...

    Countered a full Tailed Beast Bomb by the Ninetails with a space time barrier, the likes of which has never been shown in anyone else's arsenal, ever!

    Survived being warped by the Kamui.(Which no one has ever done)

    Defeated the Kamui and Obito in under 10 seconds and relinquished the Ninetails from his control, further injuring him after fully landing a Rasengan, with a kunai stab and a contract seal in the same move.

    Made Obito literally run away after getting praised by him as a true Hokage who deserved his moniker as the Yellow Flash.

    Dropped Gamabunta on the Kyuubi and immediately warped himself along with him and his Bijuu Dama to a safe distance away from the village.

    Warped his wife and his son to the Kyuubi, put up a full physical barrier to keep outsiders out.

    Performed Shiki Fuujin, took away the Yin half of the Kyuubi, poured his own chakra and Kushina's inside Naruto, which would be activated at certain critical moments in Naruto's life.

    Sealed Yang half of the Kyuubi in Naruto with the Four Element seal.

    Seriously........ I mean, if that's not the most dangerous Hokage ever, then, you're on drugs. I am a Hiruzen fan myself, not that fond of Minato, but his ability, it scares me!

    The Senju Hokage have great strength and power, they are the brawn, and they will definitely get the job done with sheer force.

    Minato and Hiruzen, their efficiency with jutsu, vast knowledge, and godly intellect will stomp all, guaranteed!

    Brains will always overcome brawn.


    I know what you all will say, "Madara called Hashirama the strongest shinobi!" "Kabuto said Hashirama's power was considered as just a legend."

    People, please......you can't jump to conclusions every time a character in the manga says something(It is not Kishi saying it himself). You must analyse the manga yourself, with your eyes and brain, don't depend on the manga to give you the answers, learn to think!

    What Madara said can be rendered useless by this simple example from the manga itself:

    When Naruto mastered Sage Mode, Fukasaku said he had surpassed all those who came before him! Let's see, that includes all the Hokage and the Sannin. Is that true?

    When Naruto tamed the Ninetails and activated Kyuubi mode, Yamato said he wasn't on the Fourth's level yet.

    You people think that Kishi keeps contradicting himself, but Kishi isn't the one saying these words, his characters are!

    What each character states is a reflection of that characters own experience.

    So when Madara said Hashirama was the strongest, he was speaking from his own experience. Madara hasn't fought any of Konoha's true Hokage's except for Hashirama. So how can you take his opinion for fact and say Kishi contradicted himself? You guys just aren't thinking it through!

    Kabuto said Hashirama's power was like a fairy tale, this I agree with, his power was greater than any of the Hokage's. Like I said, he created entire forests, bend the Bijuu to his will. He had great power!

    But power doesn't always win the game, Minato is the greatest tactician in the NV, his tactical genius can overcome power of any level! I stand by that statement.

    Again, please learn to assess the manga yourself, Kishi has not contradicted himself even once.
     
         
    Last edited by iSpeak the Truth; 01-31-2013 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Hiruzen is my favorite Kage, great work on thread.
     
         

  3. #3
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Fake interview
    Madara spoke in past tense about people calling Hashirama the strongest shinob
    Deidara also survived Kamuii
    Shikakku is the greatest tactician in the manga
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Fake interview
    Madara spoke in past tense about people calling Hashirama the strongest shinob
    Deidara also survived Kamuii
    Shikakku is the greatest tactician in the manga
    Minato thought years and years into the future man. He is the greatest genius by far.
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Minato thought years and years into the future man. He is the greatest genius by far.
    That's called a plan for life, and usually people make those by the age of six
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Please read and give me your thoughts.......I know it's long, but it's damn near proper English and worth the read...:o

    The two most dangerous Hokage out of the bunch. The tactical geniuses.

    Senju's are revered for their strong life force, physical energy and immense chakra. They have more raw power over all, possibly even strength as well.

    Hashirama's chakra was the strongest out of them all. So full of life energy that he could photosynthesise plants that he birthed by combining Earth and Water elements of his chakra, on a scale so large, he created forests in an instant. His wounds would heal themselves due to that chakra he possessed. He had a god given ability of supressing the Bijuu with his chakra and controlling them like pets.

    Yes, Hashirama has a lot of power and strength. But power and strength alone do not insure victory.

    We have already seen an example of that in part 1, old Hiruzen, beaten, humiliated, out of chakra, out of strength and out of stamina, still managed to put the Senju brothers and Orochimaru's arms away with his quick thinking and vast knowledge of jutsu. He performed 2 Forbidden jutsus that day, Kage Bunshin and Shiki Fuujin. He was known for possessing a 1000 and performing them efficiently and masterfully! Old age and depleted chakra reserves were his weaknesses that day. Now, he has none, except for the fact that he is under his own students spell.

    Minato.....honesty.....I don't even know where to start, let's just review the Kyuubi incident...

    Countered a full Tailed Beast Bomb by the Ninetails with a space time barrier, the likes of which has never been shown in anyone else's arsenal, ever!

    Survived being warped by the Kamui.(Which no one has ever done)

    Defeated the Kamui and Obito in under 10 seconds and relinquished the Ninetails from his control, further injuring him after fully landing a Rasengan, with a kunai stab and a contract seal in the same move.

    Made Obito literally run away after getting praised by him as a true Hokage who deserved his moniker as the Yellow Flash.

    Dropped Gamabunta on the Kyuubi and immediately warped himself along with him and his Bijuu Dama to a safe distance away from the village.

    Warped his wife and his son to the Kyuubi, put up a full physical barrier to keep outsiders out.

    Performed Shiki Fuujin, took away the Yin half of the Kyuubi, poured his own chakra and Kushina's inside Naruto, which would be activated at certain critical moments in Naruto's life.

    Sealed Yang half of the Kyuubi in Naruto with the Four Element seal.

    Seriously........ I mean, if that's not the most dangerous Hokage ever, then, you're on drugs. I am a Hiruzen fan myself, not that fond of Minato, but his ability, it scares me!

    The Senju Hokage have great strength and power, they are the brawn, and they will definitely get the job done with sheer force.

    Minato and Hiruzen, their efficiency with jutsu, vast knowledge, and godly intellect will stomp all, guaranteed!

    Brains will always overcome brawn.


    I know what you all will say, "Madara called Hashirama the strongest shinobi!" "Kabuto said Hashirama's power was considered as just a legend."

    People, please......you can't jump to conclusions every time a character in the manga says something(It is not Kishi saying it himself). You must analyse the manga yourself, with your eyes and brain, don't depend on the manga to give you the answers, learn to think!

    What Madara said can be rendered useless by this simple example from the manga itself:

    When Naruto mastered Sage Mode, Fukasaku said he had surpassed all those who came before him! Let's see, that includes all the Hokage and the Sannin. Is that true?

    When Naruto tamed the Ninetails and activated Kyuubi mode, Yamato said he wasn't on the Fourth's level yet.

    You people think that Kishi keeps contradicting himself, but Kishi isn't the one saying these words, his characters are!

    What each character states is a reflection of that characters own experience.

    So when Madara said Hashirama was the strongest, he was speaking from his own experience. Madara hasn't fought any of Konoha's true Hokage's except for Hashirama. So how can you take his opinion for fact and say Kishi contradicted himself? You guys just aren't thinking it through!

    Kabuto said Hashirama's power was like a fairy tale, this I agree with, his power was greater than any of the Hokage's. Like I said, he created entire forests, bend the Bijuu to his will. He had great power!

    But power doesn't always win the game, Minato is the greatest tactician in the NV, his tactical genius can overcome power of any level! I stand by that statement.

    Again, please learn to assess the manga yourself, Kishi has not contradicted himself even once.


    Btw, this is a statement from Kishi's own mouth when asked in an interview, who he thought was the strongest Hokage.........

    Kishi stated himself, Minato and Hiruzen would be at the top spot.
    I agree, people think that 1 manga statement = fact but that's not the case, you have to take into consideration all aspects of the character and his abilities. However we shouldnt compare any of the hokage until we see them in battle.
     
         

  7. #7
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Minato thought years and years into the future man. He is the greatest genius by far.

    Oh, you mean his plan he based on the prohpecy that Jiraya's student would become the saviour of the world? Not a plan, considering he knew he was going to sacrifice his life that day.. and he even told kushina that he realized Naruto would be that saviour
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    You do overestimate minato a bit though, he would've died regardless on the night of kurama's attack
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    If Minato was smart as you say, he would have ended Obito's life, successfully stopping everything that has happened in the current.

    Btw, Tobirama is just as intelligent as Hiruzen and Minato in my opinion just by creating techniques such as Edo Tensei and probably created the first S/T technique which Minato more than likely based his FTG off of.
     
         
    Last edited by SilverSlick; 01-31-2013 at 08:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    Oh, you mean his plan he based on the prohpecy that Jiraya's student would become the saviour of the world? Not a plan, considering he knew he was going to sacrifice his life that day.. and he even told kushina that he realized Naruto would be that saviour
    He knew the Kyuubi might overwhelm Naruto and make him remove the seal. He knew Naruto would try and control the Kyuubi(something that wasn't even possible before Naruto did it!). He passed on his chakra and Kushina's for both situations. And this isn't confirmed, but Naruto new power to give people Kyuubi cloaks can be considered as 'that jutsu', since it is basically the same thing that Minato did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    You do overestimate minato a bit though, he would've died regardless on the night of kurama's attack
    How did I overestimate him? How does his death have anything to do with his ability?
     
         

  11. #11
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    He knew the Kyuubi might overwhelm Naruto and make him remove the seal. He knew Naruto would try and control the Kyuubi(something that wasn't even possible before Naruto did it!). He passed on his chakra and Kushina's for both situations. And this isn't confirmed, but Naruto new power to give people Kyuubi cloaks can be considered as 'that jutsu', since it is basically the same thing that Minato did.

    You're joking?
    You put a mass of chakra into someone, they'll eventually attempt to use it..
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSlick View Post
    If Minato was smart as you say, he would have ended Obito's life, successfully stopping everything that has happened in the current.
    Minato certainly could have since he left his mark on Obito, he could have followed Obito when he fled, but there were bigger, more pressing priorities! The Kyuubi was running wild on Konoha, his wife was on the brink of death. He had to save the village and make it all count. It couldn't have been any other way.
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    I disagree with your whole thread respectfully.just because your powerful (the senju) dosent mean your dumb and can't be strategic. If it is all about strategy and intellect the nara clan would be the most feared in the narutoverse. Well rounded is the best for any form of fighting. But to call the senju all power and no brains is an uninformed opinion. Not to take anything from minato or hiruzen . They were very skilled. That's why they were kage !
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Nice thread, and i agree with the most part of your thread
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post

    You're joking?
    You put a mass of chakra into someone, they'll eventually attempt to use it..
    Using it is one thing, mastering and controlling it, and taking it away from the Ninetails himself is entirely another!

    Why hadnt anyone mastered the Kyuubi and formed a perfect bond of a Jinchuuriki with it before? It was impossible, the Kyuubi was known as a giant mass of hatred as well as chakra. But Minato knew, Naruto would do it, and he left his and his wife's chakra in his son as insurance.
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Survived being warped by the Kamui.(Which no one has ever done)
    Wrong.

    Made Obito literally run away after getting praised by him as a true Hokage
    On the contrary, it was Obito who made Minato "run away". Obito's plan was to separate Minato from the host.

    put up a full physical barrier to keep outsiders out.
    That was Kushina's barrier, not Minato's.
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Guys, in the end it's all opinion any way. I can't change the way you have thought about a certain person for a long time. So if you agree with me, great. If not, then so be it. I have just said what I wanted to, I hope you learned something from it.
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Guys, in the end it's all opinion any way. I can't change the way you have thought about a certain person for a long time. So if you agree with me, great. If not, then so be it. I have just said what I wanted to, I hope you learned something from it.
    As you said, you probably can't change people minds, but it's still cool to post your opinions. It's by doing things like this that people may realise certain things they are forgetting. Obviously i agree with you, and actually enjoyed reading it
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    @Owarij Deidara only survived Kamui because Kakashi was inexperienced in it, if current Kakashi made an attempt, Deidara would be pissed.

    OP, I agree with most of it.
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by SasoriOfTheRedSaand View Post
    @Owarij Deidara only survived Kamui because Kakashi was inexperienced in it, if current Kakashi made an attempt, Deidara would be pissed.

    OP, I agree with most of it.
    Actually I wasn't even talking about Kakashi's Kamui, I guess I should have specified that. No one has escaped Obito's physical contact Kamui except Minato.
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Minato would have never tooken on the 1st nd the 2nd and ochi at the same time ..Hiruzen wins very high easy diff..Uchiha Inza
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    His smartness cost him his life, kushinal life and his son had a terrible childhood. GENIUS INDEED
     
         

  23. #23
    終 充琉寿 Owarij's Avatar
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    @Owarij Deidara only survived Kamui because Kakashi was inexperienced in it, if current Kakashi made an attempt, Deidara would be pissed.
    Regardless, the statement was that noonone survived kamui before.. I just showed him there was a case
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Interfectorem View Post
    Wrong.


    On the contrary, it was Obito who made Minato "run away". Obito's plan was to separate Minato from the host.


    That was Kushina's barrier, not Minato's.
    No one has escaped Obito's Kamui except Minato.

    What Obito did was cause a diversion by putting explosive tags on his Son's blanket, but Minato really did make him run away scared.

    It was Minato's barrier.
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Owarij View Post
    Regardless, the statement was that noonone survived kamui before.. I just showed him there was a case
    You were wrong, post #20 is what I meant.
     
         

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