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  1. #61
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    I was exaggerating.
    But he did basically strip them of all possible influence they could have gained over time:



    As supported by the databook, which states he helped the Senju Clan gain influence in Konohagakure:
    Nice find. Never realised it. You deserve your title of number2 Tobirama fan :D You want to know the number1? Just imagine
     
         

  2. #62
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    Bold is still wrong, he couldnt upset the balance of bijuu and jinjuriki you said it yourself

    2nd bold, uhh... he saved his son over his wife, which is entirely understandable. Would you not do the same if given a similar ultimatum?

    3rd bold, I didnt say obito predicted anything.....i said obito KNEW that minato would rather save his family than deal with him

    4th bold, lol is that why obito is still alive now while minato is an edo? your missing the point, as soon as obito summoned kurama to konoha everything it did was his fault, it wasnt kurama's fault hes just a mass of hatred at this point. Its like the owner of a pitbull taking it off of its leash in a dog park filled with poodles. Whos responsible, the dog or the owner?
    You're argument seems to be flawed here as well. You're saying that Obito is smarter than Minato because he knew that Minato would choose to sacrifice himself for his family? But it doesn't take extreme intelligence to know that. Actually, a very stupid ninja could probably come to the conclusion that Minato would sacrifice himself for his family. You yourself say it's entirely understandable. So Obito predicting that in no way proves that he is intelligent, let alone more intelligent than Minato. And it doesn't take intelligence to let the 9 tails loose, especially if your goal is destruction. Obito really did not prove superior intelligence in that whole time.
     
         

  3. #63
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    Nice find. Never realised it. You deserve your title of number2 Tobirama fan :D You want to know the number1? Just imagine
    And who would that be?!

    Tobirama's taller than your Minato (if you didn't see by databook page already):

     
         

  4. #64
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    Bold is still wrong, he couldnt upset the balance of bijuu and jinjuriki you said it yourself

    2nd bold, uhh... he saved his son over his wife, which is entirely understandable. Would you not do the same if given a similar ultimatum?

    3rd bold, I didnt say obito predicted anything.....i said obito KNEW that minato would rather save his family than deal with him

    4th bold, lol is that why obito is still alive now while minato is an edo? your missing the point, as soon as obito summoned kurama to konoha everything it did was his fault, it wasnt kurama's fault hes just a mass of hatred at this point. Its like the owner of a pitbull taking it off of its leash in a dog park filled with poodles. Whos responsible, the dog or the owner?
    Yeah but Obito didn't know that, for all he knew Minato could have let Kushina take the Kyuubi with her and died.

    Uhm....his son was already safe at his base, he brought him along to carry out the sealing....dipsh!t.

    I agree with the 3rd, but that's not what you were saying earlier were you? You said Obito counted on Minato killing himself while trying to stop the Kyuubi. Which is sh!t

    Obito did fail, that's why he ran away after eating a Rasengan and a Kunai. Minato's death was his own choice. He could have raised Naruto, he CHOSE not to.

    GG
     
         

  5. #65
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    And who would that be?!

    Tobirama's taller than your Minato (if you didn't see by databook page already):

    We can't really see who is taller than who from this page because of the position where the pic was drawn by Kishimoto. I didn't really look at the databook concerning their height, but just by the look, it's not that surprising that he is taller than Minato, but meh Minato died at 22, he still had plenty of years to grow :D

    Concerning the number1 Tobirama fan? SilverSlick :P
     
         

  6. #66
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyDrink View Post
    Obito's motive was to destroy the Leaf, I just read over this section of the manga. However, he did not, and in great part due to Minato. I do not understand how the last reason even makes sense (how does the attack instigate the massacre?!) but that doesn't matter. Lastly, Obtio did not attack with the purpose to kill Minato either, you are incorrect there as well. He purposefully separated Kushina from Minato so that he would avoid a confrontation. He clearly feared Minato in battle.

    And finally, I believe the entire premise of your argument is false. You say that if Minato was smarter than he would have been able to do everything?!? That's plain ignorance. If you look over the manga in this section, there was NOTHING Minato could have done better to defend the Leaf and his family at the same time. Obito had ALL of the bargaining chips. If Minato saved his family, the Leaf would lose countless lives. If Minato saved the Leaf (which he chose) then he might have to sacrifice his family (which happened). You cannot say that just Obito was the reason the situation resulted as it did, that he is smarter than Minato.

    An easy example is this. If I am holding a gun to the children of the presidents family, and in my other hand I have a button which I can press to destroy part of the nation, does that REALLY mean that I am smarter than the president? No. Not at all. In the way Minato handled the situation, we see a bountiful amount of quick thinking and intelligence. Obito had months and maybe over a year to plan his attack. Minato managed to stop Obito's main goal of destroying the Leaf while still managing to maintain political stability (maintaining the balance of the power of the tailed beasts).
    1st bold is wrong, obito used kurama to instigate the massicre because only uchiha could control a bijuu the way obito did, and no uchiha were present during the attack (busy planning the coup). Could've sworn manga stated it somewhere but i cant remember.

    you misunderstand, obito did want minato dead or at least gone
    This proves that obito wanted to warp minato away, therefore he wanted to get rid of him. Do you deny this?

    lol the 2nd paragraph was me just exaggerating a bit. However your forgetting all the preparation it took obito to do what he did too. IA moron wouldnt be able to sneak into the leaf's most top secret barrier and extract the most powerful bijuu without so much as breaking a sweat. He didnt just walk into konoha and ask his former friend where kurama is kept hiding. Ill admit minato had better battle smarts and reflexive thinking but obito just had him beat, theres no denying that.

    last paragraph, okay, you would still needed to get access to the presedents family, and considering all the protection somebody of that status would get, I would 100% disagree and say that it would take a man of incredible genius to sneak through that kind of security undetected.
     
         

  7. #67
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    We can't really see who is taller than who from this page because of the position where the pic was drawn by Kishimoto. I didn't really look at the databook concerning their height, but just by the look, it's not that surprising that he is taller than Minato, but meh Minato died at 22, he still had plenty of years to grow :D

    Concerning the number1 Tobirama fan? SilverSlick :P
    I know Minato's not 6'0 like Tobirama, so Tobirama wins that battle.

    Eh, he doesn't back up his Tobirama arguments though. All flashy.
     
         

  8. #68
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Yeah but Obito didn't know that, for all he knew Minato could have let Kushina take the Kyuubi with her and died.

    Uhm....his son was already safe at his base, he brought him along to carry out the sealing....dipsh!t.

    I agree with the 3rd, but that's not what you were saying earlier were you? You said Obito counted on Minato killing himself while trying to stop the Kyuubi. Which is sh!t

    Obito did fail, that's why he ran away after eating a Rasengan and a Kunai. Minato's death was his own choice. He could have raised Naruto, he CHOSE not to.

    GG
    LOL youre so sh!t at arguing its not even funny, half of your sentinces consist of nothing but bashing, and then when you get to your real points, they become utter garbage.

    1. wrong, obito knew of minato's kind hearted nature because he was HIS FREAKING SENSEI...of course he's gonna know that minato would never want to see his family in danger, which would be a great reason to use them as leverage...have you not been reading anything i said???

    2. you are actually retarded, minato said he needed to seal kurama into naruto so as to not upset the balance of power, sure he chose for naruto to become the jinjuriki but thats because he didnt have a choice, who was he gonna seal it in at the time huh?? Was he gonna seal it back in kushina.....???? OH I KNOW! how abbout hiruzen? -____-

    3. No i never said that go reread, i said obito knew minato would die either protecting his family, or fighting kurama

    4. Fail, fail everywhere, you're such a fanboy it hurts. Why would you bring up obito losing to minato?completely irrelevant. I already said that obito would lose which was the whole reason why he didnt want to directly face him. No he chose nothing, If he let kushina die then kurama would revive somewhere and that would put konoha at a huge disadvantage in terms of military power. If another city got a hold of kurama then its bye bye fire country so in essence yes, minato HAD to seal him.

    EDIT: you didnt answer my question either (probably because you couldnt) who would be responsible, the dog or his owner? [if you dont know what im talking about then go reread]
     
         
    Last edited by Draphsin; 02-01-2013 at 02:14 AM.

  9. #69
    Who ya gonna call? FizzyDrink's Avatar
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    1st bold is wrong, obito used kurama to instigate the massicre because only uchiha could control a bijuu the way obito did, and no uchiha were present during the attack (busy planning the coup). Could've sworn manga stated it somewhere but i cant remember.

    you misunderstand, obito did want minato dead or at least gone
    This proves that obito wanted to warp minato away, therefore he wanted to get rid of him. Do you deny this?

    lol the 2nd paragraph was me just exaggerating a bit. However your forgetting all the preparation it took obito to do what he did too. IA moron wouldnt be able to sneak into the leaf's most top secret barrier and extract the most powerful bijuu without so much as breaking a sweat. He didnt just walk into konoha and ask his former friend where kurama is kept hiding. Ill admit minato had better battle smarts and reflexive thinking but obito just had him beat, theres no denying that.

    last paragraph, okay, you would still needed to get access to the presedents family, and considering all the protection somebody of that status would get, I would 100% disagree and say that it would take a man of incredible genius to sneak through that kind of security undetected.
    The Kyuubi's attack was not meant to instigate the massacre. I understand that it might have built bad blood against the Uchiha because they were the ones capable of controlling the Kyuubi, but the massacre was instigated because there was a coup being planned by the Uchiha, and it would have happened whether the Kyuubi attacked or not. However, that is not of the matter.

    And of COURSE Obito wanted Minato dead/gone, but that is ONLY with the purpose of achieving his goal of destroying the Leaf. Obviously it would be more difficult to destroy the Leaf if it's strongest ninja is alive. But his purpose of taking the Kyuubi was not to kill Minato. It was to destroy the Leaf. Killing Minato would simply have helped him. It's like saying my goal is to run to school today. I put on my shoes, because it makes it easier to run to school. That doesn't mean my goal is also to put on my shoes.

    And lastly, you basically are proving that you cannot prove anything. You said it yourself. Obito had MONTHS to prepare his attack. The fact that he had so much time and still failed to destroy the Leaf shows how intelligent Minato is. You're basically saying that Obito outsmarted Minato because he had Minato on the ropes, but this was due to a ton of planning that he had done before hand. You're giving Obito the unfair advantage of 1. Months of planning, and 2. Surprise. That is not a fair way to gauge intelligence. And regardless, even WITH both of those advantages, Minato still stopped him. That in fact provides evidence that Minato is the one with a greater intelligence.
     
         

  10. #70
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyDrink View Post
    The Kyuubi's attack was not meant to instigate the massacre. I understand that it might have built bad blood against the Uchiha because they were the ones capable of controlling the Kyuubi, but the massacre was instigated because there was a coup being planned by the Uchiha, and it would have happened whether the Kyuubi attacked or not. However, that is not of the matter.

    And of COURSE Obito wanted Minato dead/gone, but that is ONLY with the purpose of achieving his goal of destroying the Leaf. Obviously it would be more difficult to destroy the Leaf if it's strongest ninja is alive. But his purpose of taking the Kyuubi was not to kill Minato. It was to destroy the Leaf. Killing Minato would simply have helped him. It's like saying my goal is to run to school today. I put on my shoes, because it makes it easier to run to school. That doesn't mean my goal is also to put on my shoes.

    And lastly, you basically are proving that you cannot prove anything. You said it yourself. Obito had MONTHS to prepare his attack. The fact that he had so much time and still failed to destroy the Leaf shows how intelligent Minato is. You're basically saying that Obito outsmarted Minato because he had Minato on the ropes, but this was due to a ton of planning that he had done before hand. You're giving Obito the unfair advantage of 1. Months of planning, and 2. Surprise. That is not a fair way to gauge intelligence. And regardless, even WITH both of those advantages, Minato still stopped him. That in fact provides evidence that Minato is the one with a greater intelligence.
    Show me the page where obito mentioned that he just wanted to destroy the leaf? :confused: Also im just gonna answer the bold because im tired. Minato beat obito due to strength and skill, while he lost to kurama because obito managed to infiltrate konoha and summon him. If minato was such a genius then he should've prepped more himself, I never denied that minato has amazing reaction speed and that why he is such a tactical genius. But if he was this almighty intelligent god that some fanboys like to praise him as, then he wouldnt have even been suprprised by obito (or he would've been been more prepared).
     
         

  11. #71
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    Show me the page where obito mentioned that he just wanted to destroy the leaf? :confused: Also im just gonna answer the bold because im tired. Minato beat obito due to strength and skill, while he lost to kurama because obito managed to infiltrate konoha and summon him. If minato was such a genius then he should've prepped more himself, I never denied that minato has amazing reaction speed and that why he is such a tactical genius. But if he was this almighty intelligent god that some fanboys like to praise him as, then he wouldnt have even been suprprised by obito (or he would've been been more prepared).
    First of all, here's Obito explaining his purpose:

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/501/7

    Secondly, you honestly can't be serious. Minato should have prepared more??? He wouldn't have been surprised by Obito? What the hell! There is NO way PERIOD that ANYONE could have EVER prepared for Obito. He is the ONLY ninja that could so easily traverse into the sealed area where Kushina was giving birth. Any other ninja in the entire manga would have made a commotion doing so, Minato would have been alerted, and that ninja would have failed. Obito just HAPPENS to have the perfect ability for bypassing the extensive PREPARATIONS that Minato had set up. It is not intelligence that gave him that ability either. It's just pure plot. You are absolutely wrong when you say that Minato "should have prepared more". That is ignorant. There were ELITE anbu stationed outside to defend the birth. There was a MASSIVE seal protecting the birth. Seriously, that was a terrible argument.
     
         

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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    I know Minato's not 6'0 like Tobirama, so Tobirama wins that battle.

    Eh, he doesn't back up his Tobirama arguments though. All flashy.
    That's because I'm on my phone most of time. Meaning, I can't post pictures or anything. What I can do is talk mad ****. I don't really like to debate as I used to.
     
         

  13. #73
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    How'd he get banned?
     
         

  14. #74
    第五世代 Draphsin's Avatar
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by FizzyDrink View Post
    First of all, here's Obito explaining his purpose:

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/501/7

    Secondly, you honestly can't be serious. Minato should have prepared more??? He wouldn't have been surprised by Obito? What the hell! There is NO way PERIOD that ANYONE could have EVER prepared for Obito. He is the ONLY ninja that could so easily traverse into the sealed area where Kushina was giving birth. Any other ninja in the entire manga would have made a commotion doing so, Minato would have been alerted, and that ninja would have failed. Obito just HAPPENS to have the perfect ability for bypassing the extensive PREPARATIONS that Minato had set up. It is not intelligence that gave him that ability either. It's just pure plot. You are absolutely wrong when you say that Minato "should have prepared more". That is ignorant. There were ELITE anbu stationed outside to defend the birth. There was a MASSIVE seal protecting the birth. Seriously, that was a terrible argument.
    lol, going back to your president analogy. If someone is trained to be a super spy and has all the requirements to fully infiltrate the white house, youre going to tell me that that person needs zero intelligence to infiltrate it? That sir...is ignorant. And what i meant by "prepared more" which you still fail to understand is that he was the only formidable ninja within the vacinity of kushina's birth. Where was hiruzen? sitting in his office minding his own business. My point is that minato should have been extremely cautious considering that it was one of the most unstable periods in konoha's history. Also not to mention the birth was so carefree, i mean i understand that its your son whos being born but save the emotions for after everyone is completely safe. His guard was down and obito took advantage of that

    Oh and about obito's intentions...do you honestly think that obito would reveal his entire plan to kushina...lol, think about it. If obito is willing to lie in front of someone he wanted to gain the trust of (sasuke) then tell me why he would start being truthful to kushina? he obviously had an ulterior motive. And kurama's attack was a factor in instigating the massacre
     
         
    Last edited by Draphsin; 02-01-2013 at 04:31 AM.

  15. #75
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Minato is neither the strongest or smartest person so stop overeating him
     
         

  16. #76
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaInza View Post
    Minato would have never tooken on the 1st nd the 2nd and ochi at the same time ..Hiruzen wins very high easy diff..Uchiha Inza
    yes he could have considering Hiruzen used a jutsu that Minato taught him to defeat the 1st and 2nd
     
         

  17. #77
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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by CurseSealofEarth View Post
    That's called a plan for life, and usually people make those by the age of six
    Not true. Also, Doorhinge.
     
         

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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    lol, going back to your president analogy. If someone is trained to be a super spy and has all the requirements to fully infiltrate the white house, youre going to tell me that that person needs zero intelligence to infiltrate it? That sir...is ignorant. And what i meant by "prepared more" which you still fail to understand is that he was the only formidable ninja within the vacinity of kushina's birth. Where was hiruzen? sitting in his office minding his own business. My point is that minato should have been extremely cautious considering that it was one of the most unstable periods in konoha's history. Also not to mention the birth was so carefree, i mean i understand that its your son whos being born but save the emotions for after everyone is completely safe. His guard was down and obito took advantage of that

    Oh and about obito's intentions...do you honestly think that obito would reveal his entire plan to kushina...lol, think about it. If obito is willing to lie in front of someone he wanted to gain the trust of (sasuke) then tell me why he would start being truthful to kushina? he obviously had an ulterior motive. And kurama's attack was a factor in instigating the massacre
    I thought you're point was that obito has a greater intelligence than the fourth? If so, then the other guy already proved you wrong.
     
         

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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    1st bold is wrong, obito used kurama to instigate the massicre because only uchiha could control a bijuu the way obito did, and no uchiha were present during the attack (busy planning the coup). Could've sworn manga stated it somewhere but i cant remember.

    you misunderstand, obito did want minato dead or at least gone
    This proves that obito wanted to warp minato away, therefore he wanted to get rid of him. Do you deny this?

    lol the 2nd paragraph was me just exaggerating a bit. However your forgetting all the preparation it took obito to do what he did too. IA moron wouldnt be able to sneak into the leaf's most top secret barrier and extract the most powerful bijuu without so much as breaking a sweat. He didnt just walk into konoha and ask his former friend where kurama is kept hiding. Ill admit minato had better battle smarts and reflexive thinking but obito just had him beat, theres no denying that.

    last paragraph, okay, you would still needed to get access to the presedents family, and considering all the protection somebody of that status would get, I would 100% disagree and say that it would take a man of incredible genius to sneak through that kind of security undetected.
    it wouldn't take a "incredible genius" more like a incredibly skilled guy with months of prep, added in some intelligence.... but you don't have to be a genius to infiltrate high security area, when you have senju cells and kamui haha.
     
         

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    Re: Brains over Brawn. The truly strong, Minato and Hiruzen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draphsin View Post
    You do overestimate minato a bit though, he would've died regardless on the night of kurama's attack
    wait why would he have died? He could've just sealed kurama's chakra in kushina like she suggested and moved on with his life
     
         

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