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  1. #21
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikid View Post
    that scheme is just for users who bought windows 7 in july or later.
    also you can get the pirated version for FREE.
    Pirated software are for misers.
     
         

  2. #22
    Member KillerMongoose's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Aim64C View Post
    Honestly, a lot of the people I know in tech support and those of us who build computers with any kind of regularity are not at all impressed with Windows 8.

    You have to fight it at every turn to get back to an interface that functions fluently for a desktop (it likes to default to idiot-tiles the size of a milk carton), and it was just not designed with mouse-and-keyboard functionality. It was designed for tablets and phones and the only real thing it brings (back) to the table is having a Kernel that can operate on ARM based architectures. It's been enhanced with some power-saving features and some other nice things that give it lightning-fast start-up times and good battery life on ultra-mobile platforms... but it's really not all that substantial of an upgrade over Seven (for a computer).

    By all means - Phone, Tablet, or touch-enabled laptop... probably not a bad idea.

    Desktop or power notebook computer? Probably in more functional territory with Windows 7.

    Unless they release a Service Pack that allows you to pretty much can their interface they've been trying to cram down everyone's throat thus-far (I don't see that stance lasting very long - almost no one in IT finds 8 to be a good buy and it looks to be going over like Windows ME).
    Ok to get to the an interface LITERALY and i mean LITERALY takes about a quarter of a second. Also it can easily be navigated with a mouse, and you can easily use a keyboard. In my opinion Windows 8 is worlds better then Windows 7.
     
         

  3. #23
    Senior Member Aim64C's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerMongoose View Post
    Ok to get to the an interface LITERALY and i mean LITERALY takes about a quarter of a second.
    That is only surface deep. Those of us who actually know how to use a computer get into our file structure and into the system tools that always default back to some stupid tile-based UI. On my desktop in windows 7, I can view a listing of over 100 files alphabetically on my screen at one time and still make sense of it. Windows 8 just refuses to behave and likes to send you to a UI it thinks you should find more appealing.

    You're constantly thrown back and forth between the sensible and the stupid, and the fact of the matter is that you never quite know which you're going to get.

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...es_design_guru

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/20120...e-changes.html

    Also it can easily be navigated with a mouse, and you can easily use a keyboard.
    Of course it can be "easily" navigated with a mouse. The buttons are designed so that you can pound away blindly at your touch screen and make things happen. If a mouse were difficult to use in this setting, there are serious problems between the man and machine.

    The problem is that it's not efficient. I have to make ten clicks where I used to only have to make three. I have to scroll through a few menus that make horrible use of the available display (considering I'm not going to be poking at my screen like a toddler), and then I get blasted with a bunch of tiles that, again, make horrible use of the available display.

    Some of that is alright or acceptable for mobile platforms (though I think it could still use some tweaking in that regard). The fact that you're reduced to one window in the "metro" interface is also ridiculous (for all but perhaps smart phones - where controlling multiple on-screen windows is difficult given the interface).

    It's an interface that works for things like Xbox because you're working with a device that was not designed to work with high volumes or densities of information (a game pad). It works for touch interfaces because those are inherently limited in function (you have one button, kind of reminds me of mac operating systems that I detest). But it doesn't make efficient use of display or controls when you have real input devices in front of you.

    In my opinion Windows 8 is worlds better then Windows 7.
    If it works for you - great. But you're in the minority.

    Most people - from IT professionals to people who can't figure out why their browser has so many tool bars find Windows 8's UI to be disappointing.
     
         

  4. #24
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    Re: Windows 8

    Windows 8 is garbage, just saying
     
         

  5. #25
    Member KillerMongoose's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Aim64C View Post
    That is only surface deep. Those of us who actually know how to use a computer get into our file structure and into the system tools that always default back to some stupid tile-based UI. On my desktop in windows 7, I can view a listing of over 100 files alphabetically on my screen at one time and still make sense of it. Windows 8 just refuses to behave and likes to send you to a UI it thinks you should find more appealing.

    You're constantly thrown back and forth between the sensible and the stupid, and the fact of the matter is that you never quite know which you're going to get.

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...es_design_guru

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/20120...e-changes.html



    Of course it can be "easily" navigated with a mouse. The buttons are designed so that you can pound away blindly at your touch screen and make things happen. If a mouse were difficult to use in this setting, there are serious problems between the man and machine.

    The problem is that it's not efficient. I have to make ten clicks where I used to only have to make three. I have to scroll through a few menus that make horrible use of the available display (considering I'm not going to be poking at my screen like a toddler), and then I get blasted with a bunch of tiles that, again, make horrible use of the available display.

    Some of that is alright or acceptable for mobile platforms (though I think it could still use some tweaking in that regard). The fact that you're reduced to one window in the "metro" interface is also ridiculous (for all but perhaps smart phones - where controlling multiple on-screen windows is difficult given the interface).

    It's an interface that works for things like Xbox because you're working with a device that was not designed to work with high volumes or densities of information (a game pad). It works for touch interfaces because those are inherently limited in function (you have one button, kind of reminds me of mac operating systems that I detest). But it doesn't make efficient use of display or controls when you have real input devices in front of you.



    If it works for you - great. But you're in the minority.

    Most people - from IT professionals to people who can't figure out why their browser has so many tool bars find Windows 8's UI to be disappointing.
    Firstly did you or do you have Windows 8? Secondly I can assure you that I can view multiple files on my screen at the same time, JUST AS EASILY as I could with Windows 7. Finlay while you may not like it every body I have talked to that has Windows 8 loves it.
     
         
    Last edited by KillerMongoose; 02-02-2013 at 11:54 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerMongoose View Post
    Firstly did you or do you have Windows 8?
    I live and work closely with people who do.

    Secondly I can assure you that I can view multiple files on my screen at the same time, JUST AS EASILY as I could with Windows 7.
    Windows 8 is DOS with pictures.

    The metro interface pops up and takes up your entire god damned screen. GOD FORBID that **** run in one of many proper -windowS-. Multi-tasking and productivity in Windows 8 are concepts thrown straight out the window. When I program, I can be watching a video discussion of new features in one corner of the screen, have set of references open in another corner, my compiler open in another corner, and be double-checking my inclusion folders in another corner. I can also have other windows that include other tasks minimized or cascaded with those other windows to allow for easy switching between running programs.

    It's an agreeable arrangement for a tablet or phone - I expect those to largely be 'connection to the internet' where I can pull information whimsically from the web. There are a few apps that make the tablet useful for certain things (such as video chat, online auctions, and some basic e-mail type status comms) - but you're not expecting to type up a good resume on a tablet, or do your term paper on the thing (not unless you have purchased add-ons that make it much more suited to the task... like a keyboard).

    Finlay while you may not like it every body I have talked to that has Windows 8 loves it.
    You must work in sales. Where people think they understand computers. In reality, they do retarded **** like make spreadsheets in power-point.

    Windows 3.1 was more functional and practical as a computer interface than Windows 8. Hell, DOS 7.x would be preferable.

    http://toastytech.com/guis/win8.html





    It's not just "not used to it" - the OS is designed for toddlers who poke at their screen and completely throws away several advances that were made in windowed multitasking under Windows 7.

    The reason Microsoft does away with multitasking in Windows 8 is because they are trying to reduce the amount of RAM the operating system uses in order for it to run more cleanly on lower power systems. Protip: Multitasking consumes RAM. Period. Protip: Most laptop and desktop hardware is 64-bit memory address capable. I have 32 gigs of RAM on my Windows 7 Machine without a page file - Never seen more than 8 gigs of RAM used by Windows 7 even with a dozen YouTube videos loaded up.

    64-bit was developed not just as a technology demonstration, but to handle the reality of modern consumer demands. While some programs still function fine under 32-bit memory addressing, the rise of high definition video and photo content as well as the growing demands on web browsers and simulated environments (games) have long been pushing the boundaries of 32 bit memory addressing. 64-bit was developed to meet this demand (and can allow each program to address exabytes worth of memory) while preserving the ability to multitask.

    If Microsoft should have done anything in Windows 8, it was eliminate 32-bit support in its desktop versions (preserving much o the UI of Windows 7) and go ahead with what it ended up releasing for tablets.
     
         

  7. #27
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    Re: Windows 8

    I prefer Windows 7
     
         

  8. #28
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Aim64C View Post
    I live and work closely with people who do.
    You can't have a decent opinion about it if you did not have it.

    You must work in sales. Where people think they understand computers. In reality, they do retarded **** like make spreadsheets in power-point.
    Here you are completely wrong. I will have you know that one of the people who prefers windows 8 over window 7 knows more about computers then you (I am 99% sure) or any one else i know of.

    Having said that this will be my last entry, and I want you to know that I am not attacking you personally. In fact I had this same conversion with my friend early in the week. Thank you for your point of view I have enjoyed the debate, and have a nice day.
     
         

  9. #29
    Senior Member Aim64C's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerMongoose View Post
    You can't have a decent opinion about it if you did not have it.
    *rolls eyes*

    Here you are completely wrong. I will have you know that one of the people who prefers windows 8 over window 7 knows more about computers then you (I am 99% sure) or any one else i know of.
    *rolls eyes again*

    Windows 8 has niches were it performs. There are things I do like about Windows 8 - the introduction of "apps" is not a bad one, nor is the integration of the "live" account.

    The problem is poor design and poor understanding of computer usage. Windows 8 is designed to be used on a tablet or phone with the touch screen as the primary interface. This is clearly seen in the reports that Microsoft has been bashing OEM developers for not "developing enough touch product."

    Windows 8 is a Microsoft Panic-Attack. Apple has decried that the time of the PC is over, and Microsoft has let the sale of tablets and phones get to them. Thus - they decided to create a media-consuming operating system and push it -hard- with desktop/laptop considerations taking a backseat.

    The problem with Windows 8 is when you actually start trying to get stuff done. Most of the people out there will never be trying to do what I do with a computer - I admit. They will want to get on their tablet, computer, or whatever and check their e-mail, stalk each other on facebook and twitter, laugh at some YouTube videos, and play some Nyan Cat. Most of the computing power in today's laptops and desktops goes to waste and is used for web applications and social media (which can be adequately performed on a phone or tablet).

    Which is exactly why we've seen the shift in the market toward tablets. They are cheap, portable, and do what people used to spend most of their time doing on a desktop or more bulky laptop.

    It is good that Windows has made a concentrated effort to adopt and move toward these platforms.

    However.

    Their implementation is something of a catastrophe for the PC/Laptop. It's not that I can't get Windows 8 to work. It's that I have to run Windows as an emulator. Windows 8 has to emulate a productive platform - and it does so with questionable accuracy/quality. The operating system is designed in such a way that I am not even privy to the way in which files are being handled on the OS.

    Which is important to me. I run my programs out of a mirrored array and have a separate storage drive where large media or 'stuff' files go (things that I don't expect to be loading into a real-time environment). I have all of 'my' folders moved to that same drive, so that game saves to my profile and other such things don't end up cluttering my OS directory (which I can also lock down with bitlocker or Microsoft Steady State while still doing normal day-to-day activities and saving non-system data).

    In my opinion - Windows 8 (as it currently exists) is a completely backwards approach. 'Metro' should run as a window that can be full-screened in Windows. The 'old' desktop UI and functionality should have been preserved (the metro "start" screen is what I use my desktop for... I put the **** I want to see when I start my computer there, and use the start bar for somewhat more obscure programs and for accessing things like the control panel) - and the 'Metro' should have been, basically, a service-pack add-on for Windows with the kernel revisions being patched into 7. Why? Because computer users largely see Metro as a gimmicky add-on that does little to enhance their experience on a computer.

    Hell - it would even be acceptable as a 'ribbon' type of deal... you know... like the Side Bar in Vista (that is still supported in 7 but was not present by default) - Metro would work alright with the old Side Bar idea and would have been quite welcome with touch-enabled laptops (I still have my desktop but can fiddle-fart around with stuff in the metro interface without sacrificing huge amounts of real-estate... since the thing is designed to work on a screen a fraction the size of my laptop while remaining quite functional...).

    Now - Microsoft should have gone ahead with a metro-ed up UI as the basis for a line of mobile devices supporting cross-compatibility with the 'metro' in the desktop version.

    If that were the case - Windows 8 would be a no-brainer buy. It has some nice improvements to the kernel with better multi-monitor support (must have been a carry over from before they decided to focus on mobile devices), better touch-input support (be it a screen or an artists' tablet), and brings some updated programs (such as Task Manager).

    But they went backwards with forcing the UI to metro and then emulating the desktop within metro.

    I was in the crowd that tried to temper all of the 'hatred' against Vista. I didn't find that much wrong with it aside from the UAC being a nuisance. There were a few instances where I ran into problems with games that I had erroneously allowed to install to the C drive and then the OS created nice little "make-believe" directories for these programs to do things like install updates and other things to.

    But these were little quirks that, while I may have preferred a system without them, were not that destructive to my overall productivity once you knew what to look for.

    Or, take Windows XP and my dad. He started working with computers back when your input was switches and/or punch cards. A 10 megabyte hard drive was the size of a filing cabinet (and was an incomprehensible amount of data at the time). Anyway - he would often gripe about XP's changes in its icons, and he hated the control panel (though was placated by the 'classic view' which actually worked in bringing back what was familiar to him). Yet he still could navigate the operating system and get it to do what he needed it to do. He wasn't up to date on all of the newest account controls and other such things, since his role with computers had shifted from programming to CAD around the hay-days of the 486 (so he was very comfortable in DOS) - but he knew what controls he should and should not have over a computer and how to go about finding those controls. XP may have been a little bit of change - but XP offered more functionality to him and he liked the advancements it made.

    He's no longer alive - but I'm fairly certain he would be even more critical of 8 than I am (and far more judgmental about the people who liked it).

    Anyway - the point of all of that was that this is the first version of Windows that has actually -removed- functionality.

    When working with Windows 8, this is EXACTLY what I think of:



    "Everything is just a few hundred clicks away."

    I mean... It's absolutely sad how accurate this video is when it comes to the design of Windows 8... and it was making fun of Apple.

    Having said that this will be my last entry, and I want you to know that I am not attacking you personally. In fact I had this same conversion with my friend early in the week. Thank you for your point of view I have enjoyed the debate, and have a nice day.
    Meh, I don't feign things. Perhaps it's just because I'm in one of my weird moods, but I don't feel like acknowledging someone for the sake of diplomacy or 'sportsmanship.'

    We have an irreconcilable difference of opinions in our OS and it's people such as yourself that will end up knocking forward development of desktop and laptop computers back into the stone age. I do not, at all, appreciate your opinion on this mater.

    Yeah... I know... kind of a **** thing to say... but like I said... I'm in one of those moods and don't feel like trying to make myself look presentable (or whatever word works there). Perhaps there's such a thing as too much honesty. ... Or too much tea... maybe that's what's got me into this "screw diplomacy" mood.
     
         

  10. #30
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    Re: Windows 8

    Windows 8 is utter drag unless it is used with a touch screen monitor (then also its only less of a drag) but seems faster than Windows 8...... but as I said i prefer Win7 as 8 is a utter drag.
     
         
    Last edited by Anorien16; 02-09-2013 at 12:12 PM.

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