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  1. #21
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Thank you.

    I COMPLETELY AGREE. It goes against so many themes in this manga.

    Its also a cop out if the Hokages show up and help out.

    I think they are part of the next arc and will be controlled by the final villian.
     
         

  2. #22
    Member taladagah's Avatar
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    u mad r dont like me, excuse
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    I know it is unfair but still I wouldn't like it to be like " Oh man we are doomed....wait! the dead Hokages came to the rescue! go get them zombie father and zombie Hashirama". It's just not right because it's the good guys.

    And of course it means the younger generation failed. That's actually common sense right now, but if Kishimoto develops the younger generation further maybe , who knows, they can surpass the older one.



    That would be an entirely different story. Still I don't see that happening. I mean really, Minato and Hashirama being dragged here and there by Sasuke and Co. ? That would be the most degrading thing ever don't you think?

    I get it, but i think kishi wants everyone not to get caught up in him writing but on the story itself, meaning he know the jutsu is unethical but wants fans to be angry and feel the distubing evil from Oro. Its to grasp how twisted a villian he is to do such a thing. its like dark knight with the joker, u know?
     
         

  3. #23
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by garas56 View Post
    we must se all Hypes crushed and left behind.......So no we must se them in fight.
    Some flashbacks would be enough for that matter I think. And again I am arguing on what is correct from the author's point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasJeffersonwasasadist View Post
    they wouldn't be on the good guys side they'd be working for oro another bad guy in the war that opposes the shinobi alliance and madara /obito/juubi.
    That would be too degrading for the Hokages...being dragged around by Orochimaru again?

    Quote Originally Posted by saw2097 View Post
    Thank you.

    I COMPLETELY AGREE. It goes against so many themes in this manga.

    Its also a cop out if the Hokages show up and help out.

    I think they are part of the next arc and will be controlled by the final villian.
    Same as the above. Still this scenario is entirely acceptable both from the fans' and the author's point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by taladagah View Post
    I get it, but i think kishi wants everyone not to get caught up in him writing but on the story itself, meaning he know the jutsu is unethical but wants fans to be angry and feel the distubing evil from Oro. Its to grasp how twisted a villian he is to do such a thing. its like dark knight with the joker, u know?
    Same as the above 2 :P I have no problem with Orochimaru dragging them around. When I made this thread I was referring to the fans screaming for a zombie entrance in the battlefield to fight together with the alliance against the 2 villains and their beastie :P
     
         

  4. #24
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    Every jutsu has its weakness
     

    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    I dont think the kage are summoned to fight. I think Sasuke just want to talk to them briefly.

    Sasuke: 4 kages. Tell me why are you so attached to Konoha?

    Hashirama: You are an Uchiha and I can see you have the Ems. Tell me how you obtain them?

    Sasuke: First tomoa was becos i am sadden by my clan wipe out. Second tomoa was becos i was trying to protect my teammates. Third was becos i want to fight naruto as a konoha shinobi. I activated my ms becos i feel sad for my bro. I gt my ems becos my bro left it to me.

    Hiruzen: sasuke... love gave u great power... not hatred... cant u tell?

    Sasuke: .........
     
         

  5. #25
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sage6paths View Post
    I dont think the kage are summoned to fight. I think Sasuke just want to talk to them briefly.

    Sasuke: 4 kages. Tell me why are you so attached to Konoha?

    Hashirama: You are an Uchiha and I can see you have the Ems. Tell me how you obtain them?

    Sasuke: First tomoa was becos i am sadden by my clan wipe out. Second tomoa was becos i was trying to protect my teammates. Third was becos i want to fight naruto as a konoha shinobi. I activated my ms becos i feel sad for my bro. I gt my ems becos my bro left it to me.

    Hiruzen: sasuke... love gave u great power... not hatred... cant u tell?

    Sasuke: .........
    Yeah I hope Kishimoto makes that decision too.

    As for the dialogue..haha it was fun and smart in a way and it is obvious that Sasuke is just plain wrong but still I think he wants to know more about who is who.After all the Uchiha didn't follow Madara so the coup still needs some justification. I also suspect that it isn't going to be a polite dialogue but a genjutsu interrogation (you know Uchiha style :P)
     
         

  6. #26
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    I know it is unfair but still I wouldn't like it to be like " Oh man we are doomed....wait! the dead Hokages came to the rescue! go get them zombie father and zombie Hashirama". It's just not right because it's the good guys.

    And of course it means the younger generation failed. That's actually common sense right now, but if Kishimoto develops the younger generation further maybe , who knows, they can surpass the older one.



    That would be an entirely different story. Still I don't see that happening. I mean really, Minato and Hashirama being dragged here and there by Sasuke and Co. ? That would be the most degrading thing ever don't you think?
    Your a little confused about the younger generation surpassing the Older. They have already done that, we have already seen this by watching Gaara, Oonoki and Naruto take on the older kage. But at the same time I dont think bringing back the Older kage means the younger generation didnt surpass them, mainly because the older generation never had to deal with the juubi. None of the generations have. To say it is perfectly fair for the enemies side to awaken the strongest zombies ever along with the juubi, one of the most powerful tailed beasts in existence and then turn around and say it is not ok for the good guys to summon 4 hokages (because 4 hokages obviously and clearly turn things in favor of the good guys) is just bias and one sided...Considering the major accomplishments the younger generation has already completed I dont think the summoning of 4 hokages are going to make them any less, especially considering that even with the hokages they can still easily lose.

    Degrading to who? The Hokage that are being forced to save the world or degrading to sasuke who is preventing madara from destroying the village before he does. Or was it not degrading for Kabuto to summon all those other guys to fight on his side? Your views to me seem pretty one sided. Everything you are saying is bad has already been done on a far larger scale by the bad guys and yet you seem completely fine with it, or maybe it is different because it is the good guys doing it, well thats if you consider sasuke and oro good guys. Hmm...
     
         
    Last edited by FearxDeath; 02-02-2013 at 08:22 AM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by FearxDeath View Post
    Your a little confused about the younger generation surpassing the Older. They have already done that, we have already seen this by watching Gaara, Oonoki and Naruto take on the older kage. But at the same time I dont think bringing back the Older kage means the younger generation didnt surpass them, mainly because the older generation never had to deal with the juubi. None of the generations have. To say it is perfectly fair for the enemies side to awaken the strongest zombies ever along with the juubi, one of the most powerful tailed beasts in existence and then turn around and say it is not ok for the good guys to summon 4 hokages (because 4 hokages obviously and clearly turn things in favor of the good guys) is just bias and one sided...Considering the major accomplishments the younger generation has already completed I dont think the summoning of 4 hokages are going to make them any less, especially considering that even with the hokages they can still easily lose.

    Degrading to who? The Hokage that are being forced to save the world or degrading to sasuke who is preventing madara from destroying the village before he does. Or was it not degrading for Kabuto to summon all those other guys to fight on his side? Your views to me seem pretty one sided. Everything you are saying is bad has already been done on a far larger scale by the bad guys and yet you seem completely fine with it, or maybe it is different because it is the good guys doing it, well thats if you consider sasuke and oro good guys. Hmm...
    No I am not confused at all :P
    If the good guys (alliance) rely on the dead Kages to beat the villains (no matter who they are, dead , alive , anything) they admit they are worse than them.Nice and simple don't you think? Yes one of the villains is an Edo but the alliance have a tremendous arithmetic advantage and Naruto who is supposed to be "oh-wow-so-strong-the-new-Sage".

    As for the degrading part. Suppose you are Minato right. Or Hashirama even worse. You, a legend are Sasuke's pawn? If that isn't degrading then what is? It's another fact if they broke free and act on their free will. Then it's not degrading at all I give you that. But I was referring to the scenario where they are dragged around as Orochimaru's dogs.
     
         

  8. #28
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Orochimaru has no interest in this war, why don't people get this. The Hokage were brought back to tell Sasuke what he wants to know and nothing more.
     
         

  9. #29
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    All this time that Kabuto used his zombies, everybody and his mother-in-law from the good guys' side was saying "That jutsu is just unethical, to trouble the dead and use them like that". So how could they welcome 4 (or less that's not the point) zombies to fight from their side against the villains?

    Also it would be wrong because this way the younger generation would show that not only they did not surpass the previous but are still way behind. (What would Neji's spirit think about that? :P)

    So because of this facts I think that if Kishimoto brings them back to the battlefield it will be just bad writing and would serve only as a way to please some fanbases, which an author shouldn't do because that would be marketing instead of writing.

    If you disagree feel free to bombard me with counter-arguments but please avoid stupid comments.
    isn't it kinda destined for hashirama to beat madara, and who else can beat madara atm? it's pretty obvious they will fight
    isn't it destined for minato to know who the masked man was, his student, knowing that his own student destroyed half his village and made him and his wife sacrefice, aren't we destined to know minato's reaction to that?
    it's pretty obvious they will fight but i can't be too harsh on you because now the uchiha fanboys are panicking because they know it's over for their precious madara and obito
     
         

  10. #30
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
    isn't it kinda destined for hashirama to beat madara, and who else can beat madara atm? it's pretty obvious they will fight
    isn't it destined for minato to know who the masked man was, his student, knowing that his own student destroyed half his village and made him and his wife sacrefice, aren't we destined to know minato's reaction to that?
    it's pretty obvious they will fight but i can't be too harsh on you because now the uchiha fanboys are panicking because they know it's over for their precious madara and obito
    You are missing the point of my thread completely.

    Read what I wrote before you start the tape about fanboys and stuff.
     
         

  11. #31
    Epic Member Imperius's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    You are missing the point of my thread completely.

    Read what I wrote before you start the tape about fanboys and stuff.
    i did read everything, and kishi made whole this "this scroll can change the tide of the war" and all that just so he can bring back the hokages for a coffee chat and then make them leave again still not knowing their full power? LOL, now that's great writing, bring back the 4 strongest ninjas and make them only talk sitting on a table sipping a cup of tea xD
     
         

  12. #32
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
    i did read everything, and kishi made whole this "this scroll can change the tide of the war" and all that just so he can bring back the hokages for a coffee chat and then make them leave again still not knowing their full power? LOL, now that's great writing, bring back the 4 strongest ninjas and make them only talk sitting on a table sipping a cup of tea xD
    When Suigetsu says what you quoted he didn't have Edo Tensei in mind. Proof for that is that he didn't want Orochimaru to get revived. So either there is more in the scroll than what we saw or Suigetsu is plain dumb.

    Otherwise yes I agree with you that would be bad writing too.
     
         

  13. #33
    Epic Member Imperius's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    When Suigetsu says what you quoted he didn't have Edo Tensei in mind. Proof for that is that he didn't want Orochimaru to get revived. So either there is more in the scroll than what we saw or Suigetsu is plain dumb.

    Otherwise yes I agree with you that would be bad writing too.
    but suigetsu knew well enough that hokages were sealed and in that scrolled is said how they can be release, making suigetsu say "this scroll can change the tide of the war". also, i'm pretty sure minato meeting up with the masked man (his own student), his own student that made him sacrefice himself and his wife, his own student that made naruto grow up without parents.
    hashirama seeing that his rival is still alive and tormenting the future and not only konoha but the whole world, tobirama seeing how his own jutsu is the cause of most the destruction in the fourth great ninja war <--- how is that bad writing?
     
         

  14. #34
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
    but suigetsu knew well enough that hokages were sealed and in that scrolled is said how they can be release, making suigetsu say "this scroll can change the tide of the war". also, i'm pretty sure minato meeting up with the masked man (his own student), his own student that made him sacrefice himself and his wife, his own student that made naruto grow up without parents.
    hashirama seeing that his rival is still alive and tormenting the future and not only konoha but the whole world, tobirama seeing how his own jutsu is the cause of most the destruction in the fourth great ninja war <--- how is that bad writing?
    They can be informed about all that, but the living should deal with these problems.

    Also you are skipping the "hypocritical" part of my argument. If you were Kakashi, the guy who said "this jutsu is unethical bla bla bla" would you welcome the zombies to fight on your side because you are not good enough to stop your old friend?
    I guess not right?
     
         

  15. #35
    Epic Member Imperius's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    They can be informed about all that, but the living should deal with these problems.

    Also you are skipping the "hypocritical" part of my argument. If you were Kakashi, the guy who said "this jutsu is unethical bla bla bla" would you welcome the zombies to fight on your side because you are not good enough to stop your old friend?
    I guess not right?
    no, but who's going to stop the juubi, madara and obito now? madara needs 1 meteor and it's over for most of the shinobi alliance, it's not about being welcome or not, it's about the world right now, and don't you dare to say shinobi alliance can defeat madara just because he hasn't done or hasn't been serious lately doesn't mean he can't beat them, he has proved more than enough that with perfect susano'o and meteors, mokuton that he can defeat pretty much anyone living right now.
     
         

  16. #36
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
    no, but who's going to stop the juubi, madara and obito now? madara needs 1 meteor and it's over for most of the shinobi alliance, it's not about being welcome or not, it's about the world right now, and don't you dare to say shinobi alliance can defeat madara just because he hasn't done or hasn't been serious lately doesn't mean he can't beat them, he has proved more than enough that with perfect susano'o and meteors, mokuton that he can defeat pretty much anyone living right now.
    No I certainly don't think they can defeat Madara and actually the fact that he isn't ending them all this time is quite annoying but that's plot no jutsu for you what can one say.
    So they would have to be practical but also hypocritical and accept the free help.

    However, no matter what logic dictates, Kishimoto isn't portraying the alliance as having no hope right? And the Juubi is out of control now so we don't know what it's gonna do.

    On the other hand, Naruto's fans should either accept the fact that their favourite character is nothing compared to the So6P or else stop asking for the zombies' help.

    To put it simply, if you need the zombies' help you are not worthy of the title of Hokage, no matter the title of "new Sage" and I think you have to agree on that.
     
         

  17. #37
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    I think it's pretty safe to argue that Kishimoto himself has contradicted himself; the younger generation does NOT surpass the older because of some mystical universal law (Naruto and others keep mumbling). Some people might become as strong, or stronger than their teachers but not everyone.

    Cheating or not cheating, hypocrisy or not... it's very likely to happen. Other stuff went down with this manga preeetty easily.
     
         

  18. #38
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    I still think it would be insulting to the entire Shinobi Alliance if the Hokages help them. They sacrificed so much and it was for nothing because a bunch of dead guys magically save the day.

    It would be a total cop out if the four Hokages aid the Shinobi Alliance.
     
         

  19. #39
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    What you wrote doesn't show that you disagree. It shows that you simply want to see the Kages fight. That's acceptable but the author should care about his story and not only about how to please his readers.
    Isn't this contradictory??? Surely the best story line is the one that most pleases its' audience??
     
         

  20. #40
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    No I certainly don't think they can defeat Madara and actually the fact that he isn't ending them all this time is quite annoying but that's plot no jutsu for you what can one say.
    So they would have to be practical but also hypocritical and accept the free help.

    However, no matter what logic dictates, Kishimoto isn't portraying the alliance as having no hope right? And the Juubi is out of control now so we don't know what it's gonna do.

    On the other hand, Naruto's fans should either accept the fact that their favourite character is nothing compared to the So6P or else stop asking for the zombies' help.

    To put it simply, if you need the zombies' help you are not worthy of the title of Hokage, no matter the title of "new Sage" and I think you have to agree on that.
    so in order to become a hokage, you must defeat obito, edo tensei madara, juubi at the same time? is that what you are saying?
     
         

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