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  1. #41
    Senior Member medal32's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    It also could be a way of showing that the new generation is better by the hokages getting their ass beat
     
         

  2. #42
    Epic Member Imperius's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by medal32 View Post
    It also could be a way of showing that the new generation is better by the hokages getting their ass beat
    so the new generation must always be stronger? so soon we will have galaxy busting ninjas?
     
         

  3. #43
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    No I am not confused at all :P
    If the good guys (alliance) rely on the dead Kages to beat the villains (no matter who they are, dead , alive , anything) they admit they are worse than them.Nice and simple don't you think? Yes one of the villains is an Edo but the alliance have a tremendous arithmetic advantage and Naruto who is supposed to be "oh-wow-so-strong-the-new-Sage".

    As for the degrading part. Suppose you are Minato right. Or Hashirama even worse. You, a legend are Sasuke's pawn? If that isn't degrading then what is? It's another fact if they broke free and act on their free will. Then it's not degrading at all I give you that. But I was referring to the scenario where they are dragged around as Orochimaru's dogs.
    If Madara can break free of the Edo Tensei, surely the creator of the technique (Tobirama) knows too??

    You believe it is poor writing to have the older generation save the younger one, which is true. BUT it got to the point with the OPness of Madara and Obito that extra is needed or the story isn't even slightly believable. They resurrected a creature able to harness the energy of a PLANET; and the author thought a bunch of fodders and Naruto could defeat that?? If the Juubi was never resurrected (it obviously would have been at some point, thinking about all the legends and all the signs pointing to it (Destined child and whatever)), then there would be no need to resurrect the Hokages.

    The point I'm making is that the absolute dominance the villains could have over the current protagonists means external help is needed to make the story plausible.
     
         

  4. #44
    Senior Member medal32's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
    so the new generation must always be stronger? so soon we will have galaxy busting ninjas?
    I didnt say that, but the OP seems to think that way so I just kinda played along and showed him that it wouldnt be a contradiction
     
         

  5. #45
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
    so in order to become a hokage, you must defeat obito, edo tensei madara, juubi at the same time? is that what you are saying?
    No. I said you must not rely on some dead people.
    Even Naruto said that. He said to Madara "You are dead, you shouldn't have any business with the living".

    Actually you don't have to beat the bad guys to become Hokage. You just need to protect your people. If the bad guys are stronger then you must face the consequences.
     
         

  6. #46
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Thora View Post
    If Madara can break free of the Edo Tensei, surely the creator of the technique (Tobirama) knows too??

    You believe it is poor writing to have the older generation save the younger one, which is true. BUT it got to the point with the OPness of Madara and Obito that extra is needed or the story isn't even slightly believable. They resurrected a creature able to harness the energy of a PLANET; and the author thought a bunch of fodders and Naruto could defeat that?? If the Juubi was never resurrected (it obviously would have been at some point, thinking about all the legends and all the signs pointing to it (Destined child and whatever)), then there would be no need to resurrect the Hokages.

    The point I'm making is that the absolute dominance the villains could have over the current protagonists means external help is needed to make the story plausible.
    If his consiousness is completely erased he can do nothing. Kabuto let Madara free that's why he managed to free himself. And we don't even know that. Maybe the release of the Edo Tensei played some role too.

    Well if as an author you give so much power to the villains as you said, then you should let them win. At least temporarily.

    Admitting your mistake and contradicting the way you were writing all this time, making your living characters look incompetent, unworthy and hypocrites is bad writing.

    Edit: Sorry for the double post but it was too late when I saw it :P
     
         

  7. #47
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyo4 View Post
    No I am not confused at all :P
    If the good guys (alliance) rely on the dead Kages to beat the villains (no matter who they are, dead , alive , anything) they admit they are worse than them.Nice and simple don't you think? Yes one of the villains is an Edo but the alliance have a tremendous arithmetic advantage and Naruto who is supposed to be "oh-wow-so-strong-the-new-Sage".

    As for the degrading part. Suppose you are Minato right. Or Hashirama even worse. You, a legend are Sasuke's pawn? If that isn't degrading then what is? It's another fact if they broke free and act on their free will. Then it's not degrading at all I give you that. But I was referring to the scenario where they are dragged around as Orochimaru's dogs.
    FIrst off the good guys arent the ones bringing back the hokage, its sasuke and oro who are far from good guys. So by your theory if sasuke and oro bring the hokage to the battle feild and the good guys dont drop everything and seal them first instead of accepting the extra help then that is a bad thing? I think we both understand what the other is saying, I just disagree with you.

    Ok its degrading, but its already happened. Theyve already been summoned. I would think it was degrading to everyone who was summoned like itachi, the 3rd raikage, everyone. But perhaps it is especially degrading if your a konoha hokage? Ofcourse there going to get dragged around, unless tobimaru the creator of the jutsu breaks the seal like madara did. I mean to me it isnt degrading, its just what it is.
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    We need to see those Kage in action, I for one want to see them fighting.
     
         

  9. #49
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Thora View Post
    If Madara can break free of the Edo Tensei, surely the creator of the technique (Tobirama) knows too??

    You believe it is poor writing to have the older generation save the younger one, which is true. BUT it got to the point with the OPness of Madara and Obito that extra is needed or the story isn't even slightly believable. They resurrected a creature able to harness the energy of a PLANET; and the author thought a bunch of fodders and Naruto could defeat that?? If the Juubi was never resurrected (it obviously would have been at some point, thinking about all the legends and all the signs pointing to it (Destined child and whatever)), then there would be no need to resurrect the Hokages.

    The point I'm making is that the absolute dominance the villains could have over the current protagonists means external help is needed to make the story plausible.
    Interesting considering that in the last chapter the good guys disconnected Madara and Obito from the Juubi and cut two of its tails off.

    Also Madara was only able to break out because Kabuto was under a genjutsu so he couldn't stop Madara.

    As long as Oro is concious they can't break out. It was establised that the only genjutsu that can break the control of the Edo Tensei is Shushi's eye.

    Also its insulting to the entire alliance if the Hokages help out. They sacrificed a great deal so far if the Hokages save the day it was for nothing. Naruto was entrusted with taking care of Obito and stopping the Eye of the Moon Plan, the whole point of the war is that the world as united to stop a common enemy if the Hokages stop it then the Shinobi Alliance becomes pointless and a failure.

    Also Oro made it clear he wants nothing to do with the war.
     
         

  10. #50
    Twisted Scientist Frankenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Bringing the Hokages to the battlefield would be hypocritical and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by FearxDeath View Post
    FIrst off the good guys arent the ones bringing back the hokage, its sasuke and oro who are far from good guys. So by your theory if sasuke and oro bring the hokage to the battle feild and the good guys dont drop everything and seal them first instead of accepting the extra help then that is a bad thing? I think we both understand what the other is saying, I just disagree with you.
    No if Sasuke or Oro brings them the good guys have nothing to do with that so they should just continue fighting.
    It would just be degrading for the Kages.

    Quote Originally Posted by FearxDeath View Post

    Ok its degrading, but its already happened. Theyve already been summoned. I would think it was degrading to everyone who was summoned like itachi, the 3rd raikage, everyone. But perhaps it is especially degrading if your a konoha hokage? Ofcourse there going to get dragged around, unless tobimaru the creator of the jutsu breaks the seal like madara did. I mean to me it isnt degrading, its just what it is.
    Yeah you do have a point there. Actually the dragging around would only displease their fans. So I agree with you on that.
     
         

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