Sasuke > Itachi

[CharlieBundels]

I'm terribly bored, and I never make threads, so why not? To most, this should be obvious, but then there's the minority who cant accept it. Sasuke surpassed Itachi the moment he got EMS. People also must understand Itachi was a medium for Sasuke to surpass in the first place, that was his original goal, to find and kill Itachi Uchiha.

Anyway, lets get into it.

Tsukuyomi

Itachi cannot utilise Tsukuyomi, as Sasuke already broke it. Now, this is one of, if not Sasukes' biggest advantage. Why? Because Itachis' fighting style revolves around genjutsu, and by breaking Tsukuyomi, he's rendered all other genjutsu useless. We've seen Itachi on a couple of occasions, Itachi defeating his opponents with genjutsu alone, as seen with: Deidara, and Kakashi. Again, this is a major setback for Itachi. With his revolving fighting style now pointless, the tides are turning in favour of Sasuke.

- http://www.mangapanda.com/93-393-18/...apter-388.html
- http://www.mangapanda.com/93-394-1/n...apter-389.html

Amaterasu

Now, the question isn't whether Itachi would use this on Sasuke, but when Sasuke would use this on Itachi. Sasuke has mastered Amaterasu on a whole new degree, able to manipulate and extinguish flames. This is useful on a number of grounds. If Itachi were to use Amaterasu on Sasuke, Sasuke could simply manipulate it, or extinguish it. Sasuke is just much better at Amaterasu than Itachi is. Also, if Sasuke were to land a hit on Itachi, he'd be in a heap on trouble. Itachi is able to counter Amaterasu, but that'll surely take a lot out of him. It is further useful on the grounds of close combat, and defense.

- http://www.mangapanda.com/93-31674-1...apter-463.html

It's no secret Itachi is a better Taijutsu user, but with Enton intact, Itachi won't be able to land a hit, unless he wants to loose an arm/leg. Itachi'll have to be on the defensive.

Susano'o

Itachis' Susano'o is superior due to two things: Yata mirror, and Totsuka blade. If it ever comes down to them using Susano'o, Sasuke will have to retreat, and force Itachi to remove it. Itachi has incredibly low stamina, 2.5 in the Databook to be exact. Sasuke is airborne with his Hawk summoning. If Itachi threatens with the Totsuka blade, Sasuke can get elevation, and wait until Itachi can't maintain it any longer. Sasuke has already claimed Susano'o puts a great deal of pressure on the body, and due to Itachis' conditions, it's not getting any better for him. I understand Totsuka has a great length, but no matter how long it is, it cannot stretch as far as a creature capable of flight. I once debated this before, and my opponent claimed Itachis crows can bring Sasuke down. This is false, Sasuke can take them all out with Chidori senbon, he can use it to the same scale as when he used it against Deidara's C1 bombs.

Taijutsu

As I've stated previously, Itachi is superior in Taijutsu, but this can be countered with either Enton, or Chidori Nagashi. Since I've used Enton previously, I will use Chidori Nagashi. Itachi has shown enough skill in kunai to be dubbed the most proficient at it, in my eyes anyways. However, Sasuke is able to charge a Chidori current down the blade, which has been shown to penetrate kunai, as seen with Yamato.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-313-4/n...apter-308.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-313-7/n...apter-308.html

Look here. With a simple push, he was able to paralyze Sai, and Naruto. Itachi will have to be careful if it ever came to close combat. Also, check Yamato, kunai's are pointless when the blade is covered in a chidori current. With Chidori Nagashi surrounding his body, and a Kusanagi blade covered in a chidori current, Itachi cannot really utilise his Taijutsu properly. Itachi is in threat of seriously getting injured, or paralyzed. If he does, it's safe to say it's over.

Some of you may say Itachi can use Suiton to electricute Sasuke, however, this has been attempted before, but to no avail.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-29786-2...apter-461.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-29786-3...apter-461.html

[Lilt]

While I agree that Sasuke can break Tsukuyomi now, when he did did against Itachi earlier in the manga, it was illeigitmate. Sasuke had neither stronger eyes (only Itachi had the Mangekyō) nor more talent in genjutsu, as the databook clearly indicates. You can also see that Obito clearly implied that Itachi was holding back with all of his Mangekyō techniques so that Sasuke could win and return to Konoha as a hero.

Secondly, Sasuke hasn't "mastered" Amaterasu any more than Itachi has. The technique Amaterasu is the conjuration of flame, and in that aspect, Itachi still has better incineration feats. He burned a hole through fireproof material in record time and destroyed Nagato's cerberus from far away. The reason Sasuke can take Amaterasu to another level is because in his second eye he possesses Kagutsuchi instead of Tsukuyomi. This, too, was conspicuously pointed out by C.

Your final point is the main one, though. It will come down to Susano'o, and Itachi has legendary items that have been hyped to "invincibility" both in and outside the manga. So the Totsuka blade could potentially just cut clean through Sasuke's Susano'o. Sasuke's Susano'o, however, is more versatile though, with Enton being integrated into his Susano'o and it being a logical way to set up Kirin. So if the Totsuka can't gank Sasuke, then Kirin will certainly come into play.

As for Itachi's stamina being 2.5, he still managed to outlast Sasuke + Orochimaru because his chakra control is that insane. Moreover, Itachi's databook statistics are from when he was sick. With a healthy body, it's possible that he had maximum statistics like 'prime Hiruzen.' He traded blows with shrouded Naruto and was kicking craters in the earth pretty decently, anyway, and it's clearly only his (diseased) bodily skills that weren't perfect.

Plus, Itachi is quite a bit smarter, too. Kabuto akined his intelligence in battle to reading souls. So while I do think Sasuke is stronger and have him slightly above Itachi in my tier lists, it's because I assume it to be the case at this point. Sasuke has the potential for perfect Susano'o and many neat complementary abilities, but Itachi has about as much hype as any ninja can receive in the manga as well as a diverse arsenal of talents and smarts.

Itachi, imo, is the perfect ninja in talent/intellect and chose not to attain the power of higher dōjutsu for Sasuke's sake.

[Kages]

This was pretty obvious

[CharlieBundels]

While I agree that Sasuke can break Tsukuyomi now, when he did did against Itachi earlier in the manga, it was illeigitmate. Sasuke had neither stronger eyes (only Itachi had the Mangekyō) nor more talent in genjutsu, as the databook clearly indicates. You can also see that Obito clearly implied that Itachi was holding back with all of his Mangekyō techniques so that Sasuke could win and return to Konoha as a hero.

Secondly, Sasuke hasn't "mastered" Amaterasu any more than Itachi has. The technique Amaterasu is the conjuration of flame, and in that aspect, Itachi still has better incineration feats. He burned a hole through fireproof material in record time and destroyed Nagato's cerberus from far away. The reason Sasuke can take Amaterasu to another level is because in his second eye he possesses Kagutsuchi instead of Tsukuyomi. This, too, was conspicuously pointed out by C.

Your final point is the main one, though. It will come down to Susano'o, and Itachi has legendary items that have been hyped to "invincibility" both in and outside the manga. So the Totsuka blade could potentially just cut clean through Sasuke's Susano'o. Sasuke's Susano'o, however, is more versatile though, with Enton being integrated into his Susano'o and it being a logical way to set up Kirin. So if the Totsuka can't gank Sasuke, then Kirin will certainly come into play.

As for Itachi's stamina being 2.5, he still managed to outlast Sasuke + Orochimaru because his chakra control is that insane. Moreover, Itachi's databook statistics are from when he was sick. With a healthy body, it's possible that he had maximum statistics like 'prime Hiruzen.' He traded blows with shrouded Naruto and was kicking craters in the earth pretty decently, anyway, and it's clearly only his (diseased) bodily skills that weren't perfect.

Plus, Itachi is quite a bit smarter, too. Kabuto akined his intelligence in battle to reading souls. So while I do think Sasuke is stronger and have him slightly above Itachi in my tier lists, it's because I assume it to be the case at this point. Sasuke has the potential for perfect Susano'o and many neat complementary abilities, but Itachi has about as much hype as any ninja can receive in the manga as well as a diverse arsenal of talents and smarts.

Itachi, imo, is the perfect ninja in talent/intellect and chose not to attain the power of higher dōjutsu for Sasuke's sake.

Itachi was holding back, but he did put some effort. He pushed Sasuke to his limits, and remember, he was only a 3T back then. It's like you said, current Sasuke would break it with no difficulty now, considering he has the EMS.

Enton is what places his Amaterasu skills above everyone else's. His ability to control, and manipulate the flames allows him to counter Itachi's respective Amaterasu. The fact remains, Itachis Amaterasu will be countered by Sasuke's, or tamed. In addition, Itachi has shown nothing to counter that of Sasukes'.

The whole concept of the Totsuka piercing Susano'o was a little shady. I never mentioned it because it would be be assumptions. People argue since it's an ethereal and spiritual weapon, it can just cut clean through Susano'o, which is why I took the Hawk defense.

Sasuke has better chakra feats, which is obvious since he has a healthy body. I mean, what he did in the kage summit, and shortly after face Danzo is a miraculous feat. I also don't believe he outlasted Sasuke, but he succumbed to his illness at the very end, which is normal considering his conditions. A healthy body is subjective, as it doesn't really exist. Kishimoto portrayed Itachi as a strong young man, with an illness, that's how we should take it as. No where in the manga did it mention Itachi in a healthy state, or a prime form.

[-6 Paths-]

While I do agree, I feel that I'd have to correct you on two things here:

1) Itachi actually is able to extinguish the Amaterasu flames, he did it vs Sasuke [1]

2) Itachi's Amaterasu still wouldn't be ineffective, since an Amaterasu could definitely hurt Sasuke, as even if he extinguishes the flames, they'd still be on him for a few secs, meaning that if Itachi aims for his face for example, it'd at least hurt him a bit until he manages to extinguish them. Of course, this could work in both ways.

Still, I'd have to agree with the rest of your points, Sasuke does win indeed, mainly due to him having more stamina than Itachi, although it'd definitely be a high diff win. The hawk counter might be a bit shaky though, as I'm not really sure if Sasuke would be able to extinguish the flames before the hawk receives fatal injury due to the flames. Other than that, I do agree, Sasuke beats Itachi.

(I'm really impressed btw, at first I thought that you'd stick to your trolling ways, but this was a really great thread, which we definitely do need in these times )

[GiantShuriken]

I think so. The only thing Itachi is better than Sasuke at is Genjutsu, but that doesn't really matter when they face each other since Sasuke can get out of Itachi's genjutsus. Sasuke uses his superior Amaterasu manipulation to win. Plus, if need be he can always kirin him again.

[CharlieBundels]

While I do agree, I feel that I'd have to correct you on two things here:

1) Itachi actually is able to extinguish the Amaterasu flames, he did it vs Sasuke [1]

2) Itachi's Amaterasu still wouldn't be ineffective, since an Amaterasu could definitely hurt Sasuke, as even if he extinguishes the flames, they'd still be on him for a few secs, meaning that if Itachi aims for his face for example, it'd at least hurt him a bit until he manages to extinguish them. Of course, this could work in both ways.

Still, I'd have to agree with the rest of your points, Sasuke does win indeed, mainly due to him having more stamina than Itachi, although it'd definitely be a high diff win. The hawk counter might be a bit shaky though, as I'm not really sure if Sasuke would be able to extinguish the flames before the hawk receives fatal injury due to the flames. Other than that, I do agree, Sasuke beats Itachi.

(I'm really impressed btw, at first I thought that you'd stick to your trolling ways, but this was a really great thread, which we definitely do need in these times )

Zetsu was wrong. Remember, the whole time Zetsu was under the impression that Itachi wanted to take Sasuke's eyes, which was wrong. But he later reversed it with body shedding. At least I think.

And thanks, yeah, I'm not a troll :drive:

[-6 Paths-]

Zetsu was wrong. Remember, the whole time Zetsu was under the impression that Itachi wanted to take Sasuke's eyes, which was wrong. But he later reversed it with body shedding. At least I think.

And thanks, yeah, I'm not a troll :drive:

No, I mean, Zetsu said that he had extinguished the flames, which he obviously did as otherwise the fire would've kept on going if he hadn't. He also wouldn't have used an attack he knew would kill Sasuke (or at least he thought it would) without being completely sure that he could prevent it from killing him.

And yeah, I'm glad :D (Although your postwere hilarious )

[CharlieBundels]

No, I mean, Zetsu said that he had extinguished the flames, which he obviously did as otherwise the fire would've kept on going if he hadn't. He also wouldn't have used an attack he knew would kill Sasuke (or at least he thought it would) without being completely sure that he could prevent it from killing him.

And yeah, I'm glad :D (Although your postwere hilarious )

But when Kakashi's squad arrived at the scene, Amaterasu was still burning? Or did he only extinguish the part which ignited Sasuke? Anywho, thanks for that. But the fact stands that Sasuke's overall Amaterasu control is better than Itachi's.

[-6 Paths-]

But when Kakashi's squad arrived at the scene, Amaterasu was still burning? Or did he only extinguish the part which ignited Sasuke? Anywho, thanks for that. But the fact stands that Sasuke's overall Amaterasu control is better than Itachi's.

Yeah, he only extinguished the part on Sasuke (or what was left of him after the shedding) And yeah, no doubt, he had already surpassed him at the Kage Summit, and now that his Susanoo has that Amaterasu ball, it's clear that his Amaterasu is superior.

[CharlieBundels]

Yeah, he only extinguished the part on Sasuke (or what was left of him after the shedding) And yeah, no doubt, he had already surpassed him at the Kage Summit, and now that his Susanoo has that Amaterasu ball, it's clear that his Amaterasu is superior.

Cheers man!

[BigBlade Master]

I agree with you, Sasuke is stronger than Itachi but Itachi is far more Smart

[Ƒālconer]

yeah man. Seems pretty legit

[CharlieBundels]

yeah man. Seems pretty legit

I've turned into a thread maker :drive:

[Ƒālconer]

I've turned into a thread maker :drive:

your the next DrProof/Negative Knight, and Bugsniffer :worshippy:

[CharlieBundels]

your the next DrProof/Negative Knight, and Bugsniffer :worshippy:

Lmao, I'm not going to make this a frequent thing. I was just bored.

[Lilt]

No where in the manga did it mention Itachi in a healthy state, or a prime form.

No, but it can safely be deduced that Itachi was healthier earlier on, before the sickness progressed.

[-6 Paths-]

No, but it can safely be deduced that Itachi was healthier earlier on, before the sickness progressed.

But we don't know how far he had come powerwise when he was still healthy. Did Itachi have the Yata Mirror and the Totsuka before he got sick ? We don't know, since it hasn't been confirmed yet, meaning that we can't safely assume that Itachi had all the powers he had before he died at the time he got sick :y

[CharlieBundels]

No, but it can safely be deduced that Itachi was healthier earlier on, before the sickness progressed.

Yeah, but he lived a short life. A healthy body.. what age could it have been? 14-17? Like I said, we can't really include him in battles, as we haven't seen anything from a healthy Itachi.