Todays chapter confirms that Uchiha > Senju

[MasterSenju01]

Tobimara didn't fear the Uchiha as of being scared of them or because they could have defeated him or something. He was afraid that one day their hatred would lead to another war, he feared for the village, not for his own life. As seen in this chapter he really cared for his village.(WHATS IMPORTANT IS THE VILLAGE) Again he didn't fear the uchiha, he was afraid that one day they would become problematic and cause a war. He knew what they were capable of and what drove them into hatred.

[Jobrjo]

I think I can agree, to an extent. But as of now, he's far greater than any of the Kage, even the Edo'd Hokage.

[javu]

I felt like it was a bit of plot no jutsu, because earlier it was mentioned that the older son of the SotSP had inherited powerful chakra and spiritual energy and thought power was important; and that the younger son had inherited powerful will and physical energy and thought love was the key to peace.

Also, throughout the series, a common theme is Naruto's love triumphing over someone's hate. So that doesn't really made sense.

[repulse]

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now.

Nowhere does it state that Tobirama was scared of Madara. He was WARY of him, because of the immense hatred he possessed. The power they discussed was MS, not EMS.

He was not happy that they were annihilated. He said it was to be expected. That it was going to happen sooner or later, because of their curse of hatred.

[a banned cartoon]

Then how do you explain Hashirama singling Kurama, and Madara(Uchiha's proclaimed strongest) at the same time.

[kit]

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now.

I don't believe this to be true. Tobirama only wanted what was best for the leaf village. If the uchiha were going to plan a revolt to attack the leaf, of course he would be happy they were exterminated. In that particular case, keeping the uchiha around would have been a huge hindrance to the growth and prosperity of the village.

[MinatoTheYellowFlash]

In the next chapter Sasuke will strike both of them down, so in the end it really doesn't matter, the senju clan will not exist which leaves the Uzumaki, Naruto and Karin.

[dasoulja]

The title is a massacre for this thread!! It should be named Uchiha's hate> Senju's love!! and all this because of any Uchiha's love for anyone? I really dont understand where kishi is going with this, but it must be to tie in all the "clan cursed with hate" chapters!! I do believe they have the upper hand when it comes to "emotions" BWAAHAHAHAHLOL!!

[KingHashirama]

Hashirama > Madara

Senju > Madara O-o.

In the next chapter Sasuke will strike both of them down, so in the end it really doesn't matter, the senju clan will not exist which leaves the Uzumaki, Naruto and Karin.

Still Senju blood..

And also, Naruto reps Hashirama.. lmao.

[~MC117~]

To me is just confirms that they are a bunch of idiots.

[sukyyb]

Actually, it proves the opposite. The Senju might not 'love' as much as the Uchihas, but they are able to be strong and handle pain.
What's the point of being the strongest if you become overcome by darkness.
Props to Itachi for not going down that path and being one of the strongest Uchihas.

[Ririku]

This is a rumor to me.

His hatred grew because of the lost of his brother. Which turned into a great power beyond Senju's power.

Because Madara never lost to Hashirama?

[Koha]

I think that overall under normal circumstances the Senju are still stronger than the Uchiha, but the Uchiha have more potential to be stronger because of their MS. Under normal circumstances, I think only a few out of the majority of Uchiha will ever awaken MS. So if the entire Uchiha clan were to somehow all awaken MS then they would truly be stronger than the Senju, but I don't think that's ever happened before in the manga. So basically, Senju are stronger than Uchiha but Uchiha have more potential than Senju.

And their hatred of losing their comrade does not give them EMS; it only gives them MS.

Tobirama did not seem happy to me after hearing the Uchiha were annihilated. It's not like he jumped up and own out of joy.



I don't think Tobirama wanted Senju to be above Uchiha. I think Tobirama wanted to protect everyone in the village. But in order to protect the village he has to keep careful watch for the Uchiha seeing as how unstable they are since after all, they are prone to fall to the dark side of the force.

Both clans were always at a stalemate until the final battle between Hashirama and Madara.. As it's been stated many times, Madara and Hashirama and their clans faced off in many years of war until their final battle, so neither clan was above the other, just Hashirama over Madara.


And I still don't agree with Tobirama's exclusionary methods... I believe if Tobirama wouldn't have separated the Uchiha from Konoha it would have been a little more stable. Only thing that could've set the Uchiha off really would be war against other nations and they lost their own. Well, only thing I see...

[Great Sage of Uchiha]

As an overall clan yeah I agree. But no individual Uchiha is at hashi's level besides Madara.

This post is pointless seeing as how no other individual Uchiha or Senju were at Hashirama and Madara's level

[blazekev90]

Yet, all Uchiha would get owned by the 1st Hokage.

[Walking Zodiac]

Their hatred of the eventual and obvious suffering of life causes them to hate suffering itself. The senju's love is accepting the eventual suffering in this world, and trying the best one can to sustain and preserve the peace that everyone has within them. While the uchiha will seek revenge, the senju will seek to preserve peace for the greater good of all shinobi of the village. As the bijuu claimed before getting sucked into the mazo, naruto is the one the so6p and jiraiya were referring to. By the end of the manga he will have brought an end to struggle between uchiha and senju. Naruto vs Sasuke will be a very equal battle. Naruto needed the experience of fighting sharingan users like madara and obito, for he will have to face the amaterasu onslaught of Sasuke.

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now.

[ChocolateBear]

Hashirama > Madara

[smokingtoad]

Tobimara didn't fear the Uchiha as of being scared of them or because they could have defeated him or something. He was afraid that one day their hatred would lead to another war, he feared for the village, not for his own life. As seen in this chapter he really cared for his village.(WHATS IMPORTANT IS THE VILLAGE) Again he didn't fear the uchiha, he was afraid that one day they would become problematic and cause a war. He knew what they were capable of and what drove them into hatred.

agree... he loved the village and as shown by the danzo flash back he was brave and sacrificed his life as hokage to save his team, which included a Uchiha!

[MrSimple]

Yet, all Uchiha would get owned by the 1st Hokage.

We cannot say if yes or not, because every EMS is different.

Both clans were always at a stalemate until the final battle between Hashirama and Madara.. As it's been stated many times, Madara and Hashirama and their clans faced off in many years of war until their final battle, so neither clan was above the other, just Hashirama over Madara.


And I still don't agree with Tobirama's exclusionary methods... I believe if Tobirama wouldn't have separated the Uchiha from Konoha it would have been a little more stable. Only thing that could've set the Uchiha off really would be war against other nations and they lost their own. Well, only thing I see...

Agreed. But this was the first time seeing Tobirama speaking of Uchiha and his fear of their potential power.
You're right he should listen to his brother, ^^

[Madara55]

Yeah

[FinalWarri0r]

What was confirmed was the Uchiha love too much and because of which are emotionally unstable. Nowhere was it stated that because of their greater love that they had greater power. The clans are both equal in power as they're essentially both half of the SO6P, thinking the Uchiha are stronger now because they have stronger feelings is just...fanboyism.

Also this Tobirama fearing Madara stuff. Tobirama did not fear Madara, he feared the problems it would bring to his village. There's a big difference.

[Orochimagus]

Yes those smileys make your points more legit, MrSimple.

Anyways, Tobirama was indeed almost like the Danzo of the Senju. The Mangekyo as Tobirama made a note of when he saw Sasuke's is beyond the typical Senju. Still, EMS + Kurama was not enough for Hashirama and his Wood Release. You also seem to forget that Obito pointed out the Sage chose the Senju child. There's a history of emo Uchiha losing.

[MrSimple]

What was confirmed was the Uchiha love too much and because of which are emotionally unstable. Nowhere was it stated that because of their greater love that they had greater power. The clans are both equal in power as they're essentially both half of the SO6P, thinking the Uchiha are stronger now because they have stronger feelings is just...fanboyism.

Also this Tobirama fearing Madara stuff. Tobirama did not fear Madara, he feared the problems it would bring to his village. There's a big difference.

Tobirama doesn't even want to hear about another powerful shinobi like Madara.
Which provide this statement that he cares more about his clan than the village.
Tobirama acted with selfishness as Hashirama said also.


If Tobirama wants Senju above Uchiha in Konoha then that union between these 2 clans was plain stupid and meaningless.

Yes those smileys make your points more legit, MrSimple.

Anyways, Tobirama was indeed almost like the Danzo of the Senju. The Mangekyo as Tobirama made a note of when he saw Sasuke's is beyond the typical Senju. Still, EMS + Kurama was not enough for Hashirama and his Wood Release. You also seem to forget that Obito pointed out the Sage chose the Senju child. There's a history of emo Uchiha losing.

You're right and I get your point but Hashirama is not the whole Senju clan. So Tobirama needed to suppress Uchiha.
In general Uchiha had more potential than Senju. Hashirama is one of a kind and one day he will die.

[FinalWarri0r]

Tobirama doesn't even want to hear about another powerful shinobi like Madara.
Which provide this statement that he cares more about his clan than the village.
Tobirama acted with selfishness as Hashirama said also.

If Tobirama wants Senju above Uchiha in Konoha then that union between these 2 clans was plain stupid and meaningless.

If you want to bring up selfishness, you should be talking about Madara. Instead of going along with the peace of Uchiha and Senju he wanted to go to war because of what he just did to his brother. Show me how Tobirama was being selfish and where did Hashirama say it as well? Tobirama never wanted Senju above Uchiha, he wanted the village to be safe and he knew that the whole Uchiha/Senju thing would never work out so he took action. Like it was stated, the Uchiha can be very emotionally unstable and that's why he feared them. Not because he was scared of how strong they were, but because of the death it would cause within the village.

It's clear you're just a fanboy of the Uchiha so there's no point in arguing further. Hopefully it's cleared up in the later chapters that Tobirama/Hashirama want to go right to Madara when they hear about him so this nonsense stops.

[Draphsin]

Then how do you explain Hashirama singling Kurama, and Madara(Uchiha's proclaimed strongest) at the same time.

Hashirama and mito...and hashi is the only one able to fight at madara's level

OT: i find uchiha's quite similar to the "sith" from star wars(very powerful, rely on passion for their strength, which isnt neccesarily a bad thing however when confronted with the loss of someone they love, they turn to hate and it feeds their power so to speak). While the "jedi" would be the senju,(wise and also powerful however have much less potential than the sith)