Todays chapter confirms that Uchiha > Senju

[tossmidgetsenpai]

it seems to imply that the uchiha have more raw power then the senju but that power is uncontrollable and that unpredictability is what makes the uchiha dangerous

[Maito Gai]

At the minute, But senju will rise again! haha

[Lonely Uchiha]

Exactly. Which was highly possible to happen.

Whaaaa? It was highly possible that another madara would show up? O_o back then?

Maybe with the eye capability but not power wise like madara. U.U

[MrSimple]

Whaaaa? It was highly possible that another madara would show up? O_o back then?

Maybe with the eye capability but not power wise like madara. U.U

Yeah and who knows, both clans are gone though.

[HiraishinFTG]

Don't see how having a weird (but awesome), personality makes Hashirama any weaker.

Actually I think the way he sees life makes him stronger, he doesn't take himself too seriously.

[MrSimple]

Don't see how having a weird (but awesome), personality makes Hashirama any weaker.

Actually I think the way he sees life makes him stronger, he doesn't take himself too seriously.

Did you refer that to me?

I actually said that. His and Hiruzen's way was the right way for Tobirama to follow instead of that we've seen a massacre lately.

[Munboy]

It's confirmed now that Madara was stronger than Tobirama so Tobirama was scared.

Todays chapter confirms that their love growing stronger enough so they can go along with Senju and eventually the reflection of their love turns into a great power that is beyond Senju's love.
Their hatred of loosing their comrade giving them the power of EMS.

That's why Tobirama is happy that Uchiha are annihilated now.

I think Madara being stronger than Tobirama was obvious when Dan said only Hashirama could beat EMS Madara. Dan didn't know the existence of some shinobi (like Nagato) perhaps, but he did know of the existence of Tobirama.

Hmm I think you misinterpreted what the chapter confirmed. Their love makes them quite sensitive and when they experience despair (losing a loved one or being unable to protect a dear friend, for example) they awaken the Sharingan.
It is relatively easy for them to get this power because they're so sensitive, or impressionable.

Though they always go to hatred.... Hatred really powers them up, remember how Obito jumped from a two tomoe Sharingan right to the MS? The hatred actually makes them stronger, so their love is quite dangerous in that sense.

Tobirama doesn't seem to care, he doesn't seem too surprised that they killed each other.

[girya]

Hashi beat Madara; Madara himself acknowledges that Hashi was the only worthy opponent. None of the things that Madara has said in the manga have turned out to be false. On top of this Oro, Madara, Obito, Danzo were all after strong senju DNA i.e. hashis. Therefore; this conclusion is debatable. I like uchihas. Hashi acts just like Naruto or Jiraya but I can bet he is as bad-ass when it comes down to a fight.

[Draphsin]

Hashi beat Madara; Madara himself acknowledges that Hashi was the only worthy opponent. None of the things that Madara has said in the manga have turned out to be false. On top of this Oro, Madara, Obito, Danzo were all after strong senju DNA i.e. hashis. Therefore; this conclusion is debatable. I like uchihas. Hashi acts just like Naruto or Jiraya but I can bet he is as bad-ass when it comes down to a fight.

stop associating sunju's power with hashi's, hashi was just an extremely powerful senju. This manga clearly confirmed that uchiha have way more potential than senju

[MrSimple]

I think Madara being stronger than Tobirama was obvious when Dan said only Hashirama could beat EMS Madara. Dan didn't know the existence of some shinobi (like Nagato) perhaps, but he did know of the existence of Tobirama.

Hmm I think you misinterpreted what the chapter confirmed. Their love makes them quite sensitive and when they experience despair (losing a loved one or being unable to protect a dear friend, for example) they awaken the Sharingan.
It is relatively easy for them to get this power because they're so sensitive, or impressionable.

agreed.

Though they always go to hatred.... Hatred really powers them up, remember how Obito jumped from a two tomoe Sharingan right to the MS? The hatred actually makes them stronger, so their love is quite dangerous in that sense.

Tobirama doesn't seem to care, he doesn't seem too surprised that they killed each other.

Agreed about the first part. :y

I didn't misunderstand it was exactly the opposite. Tobrama knew about how Uchiha gaining their power and was scared to face another one like Madara. And Madara turned evil because of the double-standards.

People have to understand that you can't governing two big clans like suppressing the one but to give them a chance to be in the policy of Konoha.
Tobirama was a bit selfish which cause even more hatred.

Apparently Uchiha would try to overcome Konoha in that case. They have pride you know?
So this annihilation was inevitable.
And Tobirama is also guilty for that not just Uchiha.

[Munboy]

I didn't misunderstand it was exactly the opposite. Tobrama knew about how Uchiha gaining their power and was scared to face another one like Madara. And Madara turned evil because of the double-standards.

People have to understand that you can't governing two big clans like suppressing the one but to give them a chance to be in the policy of Konoha.
Tobirama was a bit selfish which cause even more hatred.

Apparently Uchiha would try to overcome Konoha in that case. They have pride you know?
So this annihilation was inevitable.
And Tobirama is also guilty for that not just Uchiha.

We don't quite know why Madara turned evil, if I recall correctly his clan abandoned him for the Senju values? And Madara sought out Kurama and attacked Konoha with the intention of becoming a Rikudou and fulfilling the Moon's Eye Plan. Hashirama may've hinted that Izuna links to Madara's descent to evil, but Madara is an unknown case at the moment.

There were some Madara sympathizers, that means that most were happy with Tobirama's idea. Though the Uchiha had their own police force, you can say it was a symbol of trust in some ways. That the Uchiha could keep Konoha safe, and they weren't confined to that, they had their own missions too as Konoha shinobi. Tobirama had trust issues, no doubt. However as soon as Hiruzen came in, things were even better as he was a little more like Hashirama.

Now the annihilation wasn't Tobirama's fault. The man at fault is the one who framed the Uchiha clan and made those with Tobirama's views, and perhaps those with more extreme views (Danzo) jump to the idea of the annihilation; even Hiruzen could refute as the framing was done do perfectly.
What I'm saying is Obito is the one who is guilty for the annihilation~ not that Tobirama was a saint either but he wasn't responsible for the massacre.

Though in a sense isn't Tobirama right? Itachi confirmed that Obito is an Uchiha who had a grudge against the clan. Obito's hatred essentially led to the demise of his own clan.

[KingHashirama]

Both clans were always at a stalemate until the final battle between Hashirama and Madara.. As it's been stated many times, Madara and Hashirama and their clans faced off in many years of war until their final battle, so neither clan was above the other, just Hashirama over Madara.


And I still don't agree with Tobirama's exclusionary methods... I believe if Tobirama wouldn't have separated the Uchiha from Konoha it would have been a little more stable. Only thing that could've set the Uchiha off really would be war against other nations and they lost their own. Well, only thing I see...

There was no stalemate buddy. ITs already stated plenty of times who the strongest clan was. lmao.

is see that Hashirama is scared of Sasuke ( a younger Uchiha than Madara)
looks like Hashi is holding his butt close

someone can't analyze stuff well.

[MrSimple]

We don't quite know why Madara turned evil, if I recall correctly his clan abandoned him for the Senju values? And Madara sought out Kurama and attacked Konoha with the intention of becoming a Rikudou and fulfilling the Moon's Eye Plan. Hashirama may've hinted that Izuna links to Madara's descent to evil, but Madara is an unknown case at the moment.

There were some Madara sympathizers, that means that most were happy with Tobirama's idea. Though the Uchiha had their own police force, you can say it was a symbol of trust in some ways. That the Uchiha could keep Konoha safe, and they weren't confined to that, they had their own missions too as Konoha shinobi. Tobirama had trust issues, no doubt. However as soon as Hiruzen came in, things were even better as he was a little more like Hashirama.

Now the annihilation wasn't Tobirama's fault. The man at fault is the one who framed the Uchiha clan and made those with Tobirama's views, and perhaps those with more extreme views (Danzo) jump to the idea of the annihilation; even Hiruzen could refute as the framing was done do perfectly.
What I'm saying is Obito is the one who is guilty for the annihilation~ not that Tobirama was a saint either but he wasn't responsible for the massacre.

Though in a sense isn't Tobirama right? Itachi confirmed that Obito is an Uchiha who had a grudge against the clan. Obito's hatred essentially led to the demise of his own clan.

Yes we know, Obito explained long enough. And all of the events that happened started of the double-standarts.

If Tobirama wants Senju above Uchiha in Konoha this union was plain meaningless.
This is not how you have to threatened your ally.
Uchiha are also guilty like I said. You're mising the point.

For me this union was a failure. But of course then there won't be a storyline and such.

[Draphsin]

There was no stalemate buddy. ITs already stated plenty of times who the strongest clan was. lmao

I would love to see where the senjus were considered the most powerful and would also love to see where the senjus were said to have beaten the uchiha in their battles

[Munboy]

Yes we know, Obito explained long enough. And all of the events that happened started of the double-standarts.

If Tobirama wants Senju above Uchiha in Konoha this union was plain meaningless.
This is not how you have to threatened your ally.
Uchiha are also guilty like I said. You're mising the point.

For me this union was a failure. But of course then there won't be a storyline and such.

I don't recall Obito saying the double standards made Madara turn, rather it was the fact that Madara hated the Senju; he went against Hashirama and his clan didn't trust him. Think about it, he didn't trust the Senju to treat the Uchiha well and his disciple Obito was obsessed with putting out the Senju's will of fire.

Tobirama did have trust issues, no doubt. Though it started when Tobirama created the Uchiha police... Orochimaru (in both translations) does suggest that it happened because the Uchiha got conceited with their authority.

[Retsu]

I'd love to see exactly where the chapter confirms this, as far as I can tell they were the losing side

[Jobrjo]

Guys, basically what's being said is that the Uchiha have a higher skill cap then the Senju- assuming they can reach it without dying at some point.

[MrSimple]

I don't recall Obito saying the double standards made Madara turn, rather it was the fact that Madara hated the Senju; he went against Hashirama and his clan didn't trust him. Think about it, he didn't trust the Senju to treat the Uchiha well and his disciple Obito was obsessed with putting out the Senju's will of fire.

Tobirama did have trust issues, no doubt. Though it started when Tobirama created the Uchiha police... Orochimaru (in both translations) does suggest that it happened because the Uchiha got conceited with their authority.

Yes and his hatred grown even stronger because of the "no solution". Hashirama told to Tobirama 1000 times to not persecute Uchiha? Did he listen to his brother? He didn't.

And what did you exactly expect from Madara to do? When his clan had no place in the policy of the Konoha? When his own clan didn't entrust him and abondom him? To be happy or what? Clearly his hatred grew even stronger.

Like I said the policy of Tobirama was bad. And the result is the annihilation later.

Uchiha won't sit and wait to see Senju controlling everything in Konoha.
This union was a failure.


And please stay on topic, this thread wasn't exactly about this.

[Draphsin]

I'd love to see exactly where the chapter confirms this, as far as I can tell they were the losing side

chapter confirms that uchiha have way more potential than senju if you read the manga it explains this

[Retsu]

Guys, basically what's being said is that the Uchiha have a higher skill cap then the Senju- assuming they can reach it without dying at some point.

not a higher skill cap per say, it's just that once they've had there heart broken there is no reasoning with them without involving a huge loss of life. Senju are all about protecting the village, a war with an emo EMS user would make that hard

[Retsu]

chapter confirms that uchiha have way more potential than senju if you read the manga it explains this

more potential to lose their mind, but power wise I'd say they're still even.

sorry 4 double post

[Draphsin]

more potential to lose their mind, but power wise I'd say they're still even.

sorry 4 double post

tobirama confirms that uchiha have more power if they meet certian standards, meaning more potential

[MissRed]

I think anyone that isn't Hashi would fear Madara. Tobirama states to Ori that he doesn't know Madara when he asked if he feared him.

[Retsu]

I dunno, I don't think the word love stands for actual power in this case, I think he just means they get so emotionally attached that when they lose that love, it all turns into hate. it's more of the potential for destruction they hold once they've had there heart broken that he fears, not the actual potential for power.

[MrSimple]

I dunno, I don't think the word love stands for actual power in this case, I think he just means they get so emotionally attached that when they lose that love, it all turns into hate. it's more of the potential for destruction they hold once they've had there heart broken that he fears, not the actual potential for power.

And exactly that loosing of their lover gaining them the next sharringan . Tobirama was scared of that. Because that power can equalize Hashi's power. That's why Tobiramai feared Madara. Because Hashi is the only threat for Uchiha.