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  1. #101
    Senior Member Ririku's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    The logic and reasoning in this thread is sound. Tobirama is the literal philosophical example of the ends justifiying the means. He was doing the best he could under his circumstances
     
         

  2. #102
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    didn't read it, but must be correct as always
     
         

  3. #103
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreckerplayer View Post
    I'm sure that everyone who took the time to read the whole thing, already knew this...
    haha u sound butt hurt cuz Dr Proof made u sound dumb on ur last thread lol
     
         

  4. #104
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    yeah he has a resolve ...everyone thinks wat he does is right ...who knows what other options he had before making uchihas an army
     
         

  5. #105
    Academy Student bonkersku's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Sinner or saint the scale can be tiped in ether direction in this case as logic and facts have given strength to both sides. In my view what is the worth of justice that is handed out prematurely, dose it not become what it is meant to correct (injustice). It is imposible to be burned without fire, how can justice be cared out with out a source of injustice. To think is not to harm, to imagen is not to plot. The Uchiha are not victoms, they are not to be coddled or held back by the curse of hatred, they are to live with it and concer it if they can or given in to it if not. Acting on pity or fear towards them could make Tobirama's actions that of a sinner, acting on out of love of Konoha could make him a saint. But in the end good, and evil, yin, and yang, naughty, and nice are not a part of what makes something just or injust; that is determind by the standers created by each civilization are right and wrong. Tobirama could have been a sinner or a saint but he wasn't holding his actions to stander he wasn't carrying out justice, he was being the fool that he is. And that is why he was Hokage.
     
         
    Last edited by bonkersku; 02-07-2013 at 02:50 AM.

  6. #106
    Member JDuzumaki92's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Tobirama was doing what was best for konoha.
     
         

  7. #107
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervy Kakashi View Post
    You right Tobirama is super Nazi senju, Nazirama Senju

    Nazirama Senju! Oh man I was in tears when I read this!
     
         

  8. #108
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Khallil-Sama~ View Post
    didn't read it, but must be correct as always
    and...that about sums up my points
     
         

  9. #109
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    You contradicted yourself from the beginning. You said the Uchiha go wild after releasing the Mangeykou sharingan. This makes no sense, because they'd have to start going crazy because of there love for another even before they release the MS, because in order to release it they had to kill someone they cared immensely. So the Uchiha start to run wild as soon as, they release the sharingan with just tomoe's.
     
         

  10. #110
    Senior Member Q of the Sharingan's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    The end game for his plan seems good but the fact is that he seems like a racist to the Uchiha. He shows no remorse or empathy when speaking of them or finding out they have been annihilated. Proof, you also neglected to add that he kept the Uchiha's out of other leaf politics. He gave them the police position to help the village, yes, but he also did it to keep them isolated and to keep an eye on them.

    You can't neglect to point out the obvious prejudice that Tobirama showed toward the Uchiha. Instead of trying to settle things with the Uchiha politically, he took a round about way that ended with them eliminated. He is also most likely the reason that Madara thought that the Uchiha would be shunned. Hashirama advocated peace and equality, Tobirama is more like Danzo, bettering the village as he sees best no matter the possible consequences or collateral.
     
         

  11. #111
    Senior Member minatoisagod's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    finally some logic *****+++++++. the guy was no way like danzo hell it was danzo who said ok its time to wipe them out now.
     
         

  12. #112
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    My annoyance comes from the fact that people say Tobirama made the best choice for the given situation... which he didn't.

    This is a manga filled with ninja magic though. I refuse to believe that there was no fuuinjutsu that could seal away the Uchiha's cursed chakra or atleast suppress it. And before you claim that "It would've made things worse, asking the Uchiha to neutre themselves.", remember that the Uchiha themselves "sealed off" emotion to try to avoid losing control.

    Tl;DR... Tobirama didn't pick the right choice for Konoha. He chose the right choice for the Senju. The Uchiha were members of Konoha too and, rather than help get rid of their problems, he pointed them somewhere else.
    Tobirama's creation of the police force looks like repressed discrimination, how would sealing the Sharingan be perceived?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

    He reported that there were in fact those that shared Madara's ideology, they simply concealed it from the public.
    Taking away the Uchiha Clan's birthright could easily have been the catalyst for an earlier coup d'état, yes?

    Ultimately, Tobirama attempted to channel the Uchihas' powerful emotions into something useful for the village.
    Between him and his successor, Tobirama found the better alternative when there was the possibility of rebellion.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

    If the clan "sealed off" their emotions then there's no reason why they couldn't find the fūinjutsu, themselves.
     
         

  13. #113
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Why do you put your name in the title.
     
         

  14. #114
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post

    • So what is this constant misconception about Tobirama being discriminate to the Uchiha, and/or displaying fascism coming from? Is this just falsity hoping that others will partake in this illogical ignorance? Please someone help me comprehend such.
    I'm pretty sure all this hate comes from the simple fact Hashi said, "I told you to stop prosecuting the Uchia!"

    This one statement coupled with Tobirama's cold/abrasive personality, framed his entire explanation in a negative light for more impressionable readers.
     
         
    Last edited by Draxus; 02-07-2013 at 05:27 AM.

  15. #115
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Hi Dr. Proof.
    Sorry for this is offtopic, but I didn't get a decent answer in another, more suitable thread from anyone...

    Any insight on how Hatake Kakashi awakened the mangekyou sharingan, when he doesn't have uchica's bloodline, nor brain, thus cannot produce the special kind of chakra needed for his optical nerves to evolve?
     
         
    Last edited by Bulbasaor; 02-07-2013 at 07:40 AM.

  16. #116
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    About the creation of edo tensei: it is in human nature that when one has the power to create then he cant hold back... I mean everyone else whould have created E.T if they were in his place (except extremly lazy people).. For example: if YOU could make something like a weapon or a technological improvement or even something artistic like a song or whatever, then you whould have created it for sure.. It is in human nature! Now, i dont know if tobiramas actions were good or bad but if you are to blame something then blame human nature..

    Sorry if i didnt make it clear enough or if i've done errors in my text (my english isnt so good) but i hope you get the point...

    My opinion: i dont mind if tobiramas action were wrong... In the latest chapter we had the chance to see more about his personality that was really interesting and enertaining and that is what i realy mind of... It is a manga after all
     
         

  17. #117
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    I agree with you,correct.
     
         

  18. #118
    Lord since #634( •_•)>⌐■-■ MrSimple's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Q of the Sharingan View Post
    The end game for his plan seems good but the fact is that he seems like a racist to the Uchiha. He shows no remorse or empathy when speaking of them or finding out they have been annihilated. Proof, you also neglected to add that he kept the Uchiha's out of other leaf politics. He gave them the police position to help the village, yes, but he also did it to keep them isolated and to keep an eye on them.

    You can't neglect to point out the obvious prejudice that Tobirama showed toward the Uchiha. Instead of trying to settle things with the Uchiha politically, he took a round about way that ended with them eliminated. He is also most likely the reason that Madara thought that the Uchiha would be shunned. Hashirama advocated peace and equality, Tobirama is more like Danzo, bettering the village as he sees best no matter the possible consequences or collateral.
    Someone actually get the big picture. Uchiha wasn't your ordinary clan so you can suppress them. Their union was a failure to begin with it.
     
         
    Last edited by MrSimple; 02-07-2013 at 07:05 AM. Reason: ....

  19. #119
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    He did what he had to do to protect the village that is all that was matter to him...
     
         

  20. #120
    Lord since #634( •_•)>⌐■-■ MrSimple's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlhens View Post
    He did what he had to do to protect the village that is all that was matter to him...
    Then he could not unite with Uchiha. This is the most funny excuse that I've heard in a while.
     
         
    Last edited by MrSimple; 02-07-2013 at 09:10 AM. Reason: .

  21. #121
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxus View Post
    I'm pretty sure all this hate comes from the simple fact Hashi said, "I told you to stop prosecuting the Uchia!"

    This one statement coupled with Tobirama's cold/abrasive personality, framed his entire explanation in a negative light for more impressionable readers.
    Their hatred stems from their unique neurobiological makeup, Tobirama pointed that out clearly, they were predisposed to strong reckless emotions.
     
         

  22. #122
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Tobirama was not trying to punish the Uchiha,he was trying to prevent the destruction which they were capable of. Tobirama did it all to protect his village.I believe Itachi saw the logic in what Tobirama and hence wiped the Uchiha out before this destruction began.
     
         

  23. #123
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by claudioike1 View Post
    Tobirama was not trying to punish the Uchiha,he was trying to prevent the destruction which they were capable of. Tobirama did it all to protect his village.I believe Itachi saw the logic in what Tobirama and hence wiped the Uchiha out before this destruction began.
    You're just one ignorant idiot. Uchiha is a part of the so called village you're trying to mention. By taking away the chance of them to be in the policy of Konoha you can't expect nothing less but hatred.

    Tobirama cared for his so called own village and not the village that Hashirama or Hiruzen was trying to build.
    So rid of your mind that utter crap that Senju is the only importance of that village.
     
         

  24. #124
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Maybe the word resolution would be more appropriate. Resolve as a noun means determination and will
     
         

  25. #125
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    but there is a pit fall

    i don't think tobirama's idea would have worked at in the way he thinks that The Uchiha will use MS to protect the village from harm because he gain the MS only with the intention of vengeance for the loved one they have lost. They will definitely no use the power to protect the village from where they were isolated

    please tell if you have anything to say
     
         

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