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  1. #126
    Member madara san's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Exactly, and good point.

    But why wouldn't he be exhibit fascism, or discrimination to the clan who fought his own countless times? Wouldn't display the same actions to someone who tried to kill your family, but then you found out that they were actually your step sisters/brothers (step family)?

    Wait a minute...are you actually condoning fascism based on personal bitterness and grievance? HOLY COW ! ! ! !
    Tobirama was a bad guy...he was paranoid and insanely nationalistic (village-istic?)
    You can state the obvious and reiterate the reasons he did what he did, but that doesn't make it right. Hiruzen's logic was also misguided. Tobirama created the problem out of fear and hatred and Hiruzen and Danzo facilitated genocide. The village really isn't a nice place and it's built on lies. Hashirama seems to have been the only humane one among them all!
     
         

  2. #127
    KAMUI!!!!! SharinganUser1's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    I think tobirama is funny not a douche.
     
         

  3. #128
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    if tobirama was such a "bad" guy why didn't he just wipe out the uchiha? he saw they could still be a use to the village, i mean looking back his choice seems to have had the opposite effect tho and created more problems then it solved
     
         

  4. #129
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    great thread, i totally agree with you. As an adult i view the Uchiha as immature savages, what i mean by that is that they were using their love to create hate to gain power, once they received this power they would become uncontrollable. i understand you lose loved ones EVERYONE goes through this so i don't see it as an excuse for them to seek revenge, avenge...w/e. this was THE ONLY WAY to monitor them and keep them under control without physical force. they wanted to be leaders so whether you coner them or not they weren't going to be happy unless they had control of the village so a coup d'e tat was inevitable.


    its ok i got my flame suit on
     
         

  5. #130
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    This was my thinking exactly, Dr.Proof.

    Tobirama was not as evil as they say he was!
     
         

  6. #131
    Konoha no Kiroi Senko YellowFang's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    This all hate against Tobirama despite contradicting manga facts is due because the victims of the justice were Uchiha, if it were against someone else everyone'd be like 'serves them right'...
    :sy: Uchiha fans...
     
         

  7. #132
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    the one who created jutsu should have known the risks of jutsu, as we can see now the jutsu served as badly as it could. nothing worse than making madara(leader of all hatred and negative morality) immortal with unlimited chakra
     
         

  8. #133
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Well let me see. Obito loses his GF goes crazy. Sasuke loses his brother goes crazy. Madara it seems loses his bro goes crazy. Gotta say I agree with they guy. Itachi is the odd one out. Though I disagree with the fact that all Uchiha are like that from what we have seen he is not wrong. They are 3:1 in terms of being able to control their anger and Tobirama suggested that there were more and I think he may of seen it happen. It seems that Uchiha cant control there emotions and I understand what he means by " A clan possessed by evil" They go after revenge and cant forgive. I am not saying that all Uchiha are like that but from all the Uchiha we have seen it seems that he was right. I hope Sasuke can see this himself and changes.
     
         

  9. #134
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    i agree on everything, but how do you use Edo Tensei for good? ...
     
         

  10. #135
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiya-Jin Prince View Post
    I hope you know you're probably the biggest contributor to his hottest thread, by constantly leaving your hate comments. I disagree with this thread, but I'm just letting you know.
     
         

  11. #136
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    very reminiscent of what Frieza did with the saiyans. keeping a watchful eye on them, fearing that one would become strong enough to challenge him for the right to rule. Tobirama fears are similar. he fears that another Madara would rise among the Uchiha's and challenge the hokage
     
         

  12. #137
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Inaccuracy


    Constant threads about Tobirama's reasoning for him doing what had to be done to the Uchiha, has brought hate to his characters, along with the war-loved technique Edo Tensei. Being as the Uchiha had immense infatuation to their loved ones, losing such would cause them great despair causing them to awaken the Sharingan, but not just a regular Sharingan, the Mangekyou Sharingan. This provided a problem, wild Uchiha with Mangekyou Sharingans something had to be done, and Tobirama had done it (no matter how brutal, or evil it intended to sound it was all for the village).

    Tobirama gave them a fitting position in order to use their "confused infatuation problems" (going wild with power; Mangekyou Sharingan) as to why the Police Department was created (solely for the Uchiha). Why is this wrong? Why is this unnecessary hate appointed to Tobirama? He was thinking with his head, and his heart he wanted to protect his village from harm which he did successfully in his Era. So what exactly was wrong with the following actions?


    • Creating the Konoha Police Department for the Uchiha Clan.
    • Using their power for good (to keep the prisoners isolated, and away from villagers).
    • Trying to silence "Madara's Will" from the Uchiha's.
    • Protecting the Hidden Leaf Village from the Uchiha's "wild infatuation problems".
    • To keep themselves out of harms way, so that the Uchiha's themselves don't recklessly suicide.



    Seemingly that is only half of the problem for the ongoing hate Tobirama is constantly getting due to today's current chapter. "Edo Tensei is the cause of this war", "Edo Tensei should have never been created", "Tobirama is truly evil for creating Edo Tensei" these are all statements I've come to hear, but do you all conclude the possibilities as to why Tobirama created such a technique? As to why it would bring back a numerous of dead shinobi? To aid the Leaf Village.

    In wars such as this Tobirama created the Edo Tensei (most-probable) to aid the Leaf Village in wars, or to deal with the Uchiha Clan's instability, undying shinobi who could only be defeated due to sealing jutsu. Edo Tensei was truly presumed evil due to Orochimaru performing it, leading to Kabuto using it in the current war arc we are presented now, Orochimaru was truly the one to corrupt the concept of the jutsu, with Madara doing it some justice admitting that the creation of the jutsu could enable an army to wipe out a map. Orochimaru was right, Hashirama probably had stated the same Edo Tensei shouldn't have been created, however it had good intentions, but was abused with the wrong users.


    Conclusion


    • Tobirama settles the Uchiha's "wild infatuation problem" so no harm comes to the village (the main objective)
    • Power is given to the Uchiha Clan to put to use their Mangekyou Sharingan's incredible power (protecting the village, and chances of getting themselves killed)
    • Edo Tensei created to stop wars, and instability of the Uchiha Clan, but later used for corrupted purposes (attacking the Leaf Village, and support the war)
    • Look at the situation from Tobirama's point of view, what would you have done? (You can't please everyone)


    Addition by KGB Kakuzu:

    Addition by Derp Obito:
    You forgot 1 thing the uchiha were at peace and willing to work with the leaf tilll they were still hated mainly by tobi despite the fact that they sided with Harashima over madara and kicked him out.

    The small pro Madara group didnt surface till after tobirama started cracking on them.

    He was just another danzo

    he should have been more helpful and firm at the same time
     
         

  13. #138
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Gdamon View Post
    i agree on everything, but how do you use Edo Tensei for good? ...
    use it on your enemy by sacrificing an enemy? it's a sure fire way to not have casualties on your side... that being said I dislike the jutsu... nice thread btw Dr, who wouldn't be weary of emotionally unstable people who can use flames, that can not be put out as teenagers or even younger... sounds like it would be necessary to keep an eye on them
     
         

  14. #139
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    i agree with you.as it was definitely not the right thing to do,it was the best he could do.
     
         

  15. #140
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Tobirama just seemed like an ***hole due to his straight forward personality. Unlike his brother, who seems to find the good and second chances in people, Tobirama did what was nescessary to protect Konoha in his era.(even though he boxed up the uchiha possibly out of fear) I must say great thread, well thought out.
     
         
    Last edited by xREIBIx; 02-07-2013 at 04:12 PM.

  16. #141
    Sasuke > Your Favourite shelke's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    So, what you have basically done: condone extreme fascism, subjugation, jingoism based on self-created Principles. All you have done is side with a tyrant, who did as he saw fit, and what He deemed 'good or evil or right or wrong' according to his own created perspectives. Not only are you throwing some valuable facts out of the window - such as Uchihas having an equal share in the government and village - but you believe that if a leader practices racism and promotes his own clan's loyalties and practices, he is a great leader? God forbid it if anyone like you ever takes seat anywhere, the other folks will be doomed. Strong disagreement through and through. Tobirama was no fit to be a leader than Danzo was. No wonder he lit Tobirama's 'hollowed principles torch' bright.

    Tobirama doesn't care about the village, he just likes to have everything under control. He put the unique Uchiha clan into a "cage", because he was afraid of their power. It was one of the clans that gave rise this village, and they are suppose to be equal as any other citizen? In fact, they are/were much lower. Not everyone in the village was forced to live in one place, not everyone was spied.

    The will of fire went from 1st hokage straight to the 3rd. TOBI THE SECOND didn't have any qualities of a lawful ruler. Hashirama should have invested own time in having own son, so that maybe the junior would get some of his ideas, becoming a better choice for the "throne". When Hiruzen was fighting against Oro to protect the village, he wanted to protect every single one of them. His motivation and the way he spoke about Konoha makes him a reliable person as to protect this village. Hashirama obviously had these feelings too.

    But, not our boy Tobirama. First thing he did was divide society, causing troubleful atmosphere in the village. There is something that must have happened, that made Tobi so hateful towards Uchiha. I don't know what it is, maybe we will soon find out. When they told him that Uchiha went into chaos, almost fighting each other, he was like, meeh it's none of my problem, look at his attitude. That's not the way a real hokage should respond. He should feel responsible for causing the war that is now. For now, Tobirama appears to be the main antagonist of this series. The source of all problems.
    ^ This.
     
         

  17. #142
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieBundels View Post
    I hope you know you're probably the biggest contributor to his hottest thread, by constantly leaving your hate comments. I disagree with this thread, but I'm just letting you know.
    You may be right but it's doubtful, it was in hottest before I even posted. And I've only posted a couple times. I just get annoyed by the whole post your name in the thread/goes instantly to hottest with mindless agreements (like a quote I replied to that said "I didn't even read it but you must be right") We get 2-3 of these a week from this guy. But your right Charlie, I'm not helping the matter. I should just head my own advice from another thread and just not comment.
     
         
    Last edited by -Vegeta; 02-07-2013 at 04:19 PM.

  18. #143
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiya-Jin Prince View Post
    You may be right but it's doubtful, it was in hottest before I even posted. And I've only posted a couple times. I just get annoyed by the whole post your name in the thread/goes instantly to hottest with mindless agreements (like a quote I replied to that said "I didn't even read it but you must be right") We get 2-3 of these a week from this guy. But your right Charlie, I'm not helping the matter. I should just head my own advice from another thread and just not comment.
    Nah man, if you disagree with his thread, let him know, if not, leave it be. If guys want to lick his ass online, let them be
     
         

  19. #144
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by RasenUchihaChaos View Post
    You forgot 1 thing the uchiha were at peace and willing to work with the leaf tilll they were still hated mainly by tobi despite the fact that they sided with Harashima over madara and kicked him out.

    The small pro Madara group didnt surface till after tobirama started cracking on them.

    He was just another danzo

    he should have been more helpful and firm at the same time
    Actually the pro-Madara group surfaced after the nine tails attack on the village. The Uchihas were for some reason missing during the attacks and they were suspected to be behind the attack. Thats when Danzo ordered ANBU to watch the Uchihas which resulted in the Uchihas fault.
     
         

  20. #145
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Luck View Post
    Hey DrProof

    Eat a dick.
    ^^
     
         

  21. #146
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    I just have to agree but edo tensei as good as it is and as good as it's purpose was should have never been invented in the first place
     
         

  22. #147
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    On this one, I must highly disagree. Hashi mentioned having told Tobirama many times to not to persecute the Uchiha, meaning that Tobirama obviously had some grudge with them (maybe they killed a relative) Taking the position of Hokage means that you should be willing to protect anyone who's a part of that village, and Tobirama did far from that.

    Instead of following the will of his brother and simply treating the clan that had just betrayed their leader because they truly wanted peace well, he decided to isolate them and keep an eye on them just because something might have happened. His decision was clearly biased. There were some other choices that he could have taken instead, but instead of doing something like simply observing the ones that might have seemed like they might betray the village, he sent them to one corner of the village.

    Honestly, his actions were pretty damn stupid.
     
         

  23. #148
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Tobirama failed as a kage, this I now know.
     
         

  24. #149
    Senior Member Anorien16's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Hyuga Main Brach uses curse seals side branch members and controls them by threatening them with a painful death.... none cares.

    Tobirama just relocates the Uchiha but grants them extra power that no clan has (which clan has the power to arrest anyone save the ANBU under the Hokage or such) . . . . . Tobirama is evil.
     
         

  25. #150
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorien16 View Post
    Hyuga Main Brach uses curse seals side branch members and controls them by threatening them with a painful death.... none cares.

    Tobirama just relocates the Uchiha but grants them extra power that no clan has (which clan has the power to arrest anyone save the ANBU under the Hokage or such) . . . . . Tobirama is evil.
    "Relocating" someone is a nice way to say "drove a whole clan into a corner in the village to keep an eye on them, after suggesting a peace truce between the clans"
     
         

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