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  1. #201
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    I like to point out something, if for the sake of argument we say that the Uchiha Police Force was a ruse and a form of veiled oppression then why did the Uchihas accepted the position? wouldn't that be hypocritical of them to accept a role they truly hated.
     
         

  2. #202
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    I'm not sure, maybe they didn't dislike it at first or even at all. Maybe it just played a toll on their psyche subconsciously guiding their decisions
     
         

  3. #203
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Sorry I'm so late to the dance on this one... This was a good thread and Dr. Proof makes some good points but to me the question comes down to this:

    As they say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" All that Tobirama did he did with the safety of Konoha at heart but in the end his actions failed to achieve his goals. He was pragmatic, using the "tools" he had at his disposal, we could argue that he did the best he could and even that he managed to maintain the safety of Konoha for a while but ultimately he should also be held accountable for the long term results of his decisions... both the fourth and the third's deaths could be viewed as a direct result of rebellion against the decisions that he made...

    Oh and Edo Tensei? A jutsu is just a tool, like a sword, how it is used or abused doesn't make it bad or good... Tobirama can't be held responsible for how others apply the technique that he created.

    is it an affront to nature? Probably.
    Should he have created it? Doesn't matter he did... If not him then someone else would have?
     
         
    Last edited by scarboroughfair5; 02-11-2013 at 03:27 PM.

  4. #204
    Demon Sannin RasenUchihaChaos's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Edo tensei could never be used for a good purpose all u do is disgrace the dead

    by bringing them back
     
         

  5. #205
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Dr Proof I liked your topic about tobirama's resolve i completely agree he did what any KAGE would do protect to there village at any cost and for the people talking bout the senju and hashirama agreement some of the uchiha didnt wanna fight with the senju anymore but there were still others who still wanted to fight them and tobirama didn't care for how the uchiha felt and honestly i dont blame him thats like siding with someone who killed ur own family i wouldn't care either but as the kage he helped them in making the police force the uchiha were a threat to konoha so as the kage he kept close eye on them and as for the edo tensei he created it for the good of the konoha but fell in the wrong hands u cant blame him for creating edo tensei.....no matter how you look at it tobirama's resolve is not evil its just uchiha fanboys dont like they disrespect there getting from him well.......this my opinion say what you like but it wont change anything
     
         

  6. #206
    Senior Member RikudoKami's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Senju are Vampires
    Uchiha are Lycans
     
         

  7. #207
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    every action have consequence, good or bad is depend to anyone who respond tobirama act
     
         

  8. #208
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    agree
     
         

  9. #209
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiya-Jin Prince View Post
    I'm not sure, maybe they didn't dislike it at first or even at all. Maybe it just played a toll on their psyche subconsciously guiding their decisions
    If they had no initial disdain for their designated position then it's definitely not oppression.
     
         

  10. #210
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    If they had no initial disdain for their designated position then it's definitely not oppression.
    It doesn't seem like they did at first. They probably even appreciated the role of power not fully realizing they were being penned in like farm animals
     
         

  11. #211
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    He was a bit cold, and made mistakes like everyone else. But none the less, he ment the best.

    I like his outfit though.... CLASSY!!!
     
         

  12. #212
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Very good logic and your right it was orochimaru who used the reanimation jutsu for evil. But also the jutsu required human bodies to use to begin with so it a technical sense tobirama was killing villagers to help defend the village
     
         

  13. #213
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    good thing half the people saying that tobirama is faultless perfect and a good person isnt running any countries they just nuke everything sayign it was in the name of peace and goodness
     
         

  14. #214
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    the 2nd hokage was a mean to the uchiha for a lot of reasons and his legacy caused pain to his students and his own brothers granddaughter and the world and caused the uchiha mass killing.
     
         

  15. #215
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    And one of his students was Uchiha as well
     
         

  16. #216
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    But Edo tensei requires human sacrifice. How can that be used for good. Its hard to imagine Tobirama sacrificing the lives of villagers (or even enemy shinobi) to perform this jutsu. Hence the English translation, "impure World Reincarnation no jutsu". This jutsu couldn't have been accidently created. Tobirama had to have sacrifice a human in order to perform this jutsu. How would kishi explain this?
     
         

  17. #217
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    I agree that he most likely made the edo jutsu was made for good intentions but the jutsu was completed by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. But he did kind of place the Uchihas on the outskirts of the village, although putting them in control of the police force had a good reason.
     
         

  18. #218
    Academy Student KiriNaruMekuto's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Yeah Nidaime Hokages Is To Watch Carefully About Uchiha Clan And He's Want Not To Rebirth The New Madara~
     
         

  19. #219
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    ~~~ Yeah ~~~
     
         

  20. #220
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by RikudoKami View Post
    Senju are Vampires
    Uchiha are Lycans
    Is Like CABAL Online ~
     
         

  21. #221
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    multi-posting...a no no
    read these before you get infractions
    http://narutobase.net/forums/announcement.php?f=568
     
         

  22. #222
    Eternal Mangekyou Uchiha7Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    good thread but as we saw from the manga he hated the uchiha and was a little afraid of them.

    so he Dismissal the uchiha clan and made the police

    and that well cause the hatred for the uchiha clan by the whole village
     
         
    Last edited by Uchiha7Sasuke; 02-13-2013 at 11:40 AM. Reason: fixing grammar

  23. #223
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    how many experiments were done in order for the edo tensei to work?? as long as i remember you must sacrifce a life to bring someone. back to life so how many experiments did tobirama do? how many lifes were sacrificed?
     
         

  24. #224
    Youngest KAGE Priyam Bhowmick's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Inaccuracy


    Constant threads about Tobirama's reasoning for him doing what had to be done to the Uchiha, has brought hate to his characters, along with the war-loved technique Edo Tensei. Being as the Uchiha had immense infatuation to their loved ones, losing such would cause them great despair causing them to awaken the Sharingan, but not just a regular Sharingan, the Mangekyou Sharingan. This provided a problem, wild Uchiha with Mangekyou Sharingans something had to be done, and Tobirama had done it (no matter how brutal, or evil it intended to sound it was all for the village).

    Tobirama gave them a fitting position in order to use their "confused infatuation problems" (going wild with power; Mangekyou Sharingan) as to why the Police Department was created (solely for the Uchiha). Why is this wrong? Why is this unnecessary hate appointed to Tobirama? He was thinking with his head, and his heart he wanted to protect his village from harm which he did successfully in his Era. So what exactly was wrong with the following actions?


    • Creating the Konoha Police Department for the Uchiha Clan.
    • Using their power for good (to keep the prisoners isolated, and away from villagers).
    • Trying to silence "Madara's Will" from the Uchiha's.
    • Protecting the Hidden Leaf Village from the Uchiha's "wild infatuation problems".
    • To keep themselves out of harms way, so that the Uchiha's themselves don't recklessly suicide.



    Seemingly that is only half of the problem for the ongoing hate Tobirama is constantly getting due to today's current chapter. "Edo Tensei is the cause of this war", "Edo Tensei should have never been created", "Tobirama is truly evil for creating Edo Tensei" these are all statements I've come to hear, but do you all conclude the possibilities as to why Tobirama created such a technique? As to why it would bring back a numerous of dead shinobi? To aid the Leaf Village.

    In wars such as this Tobirama created the Edo Tensei (most-probable) to aid the Leaf Village in wars, or to deal with the Uchiha Clan's instability, undying shinobi who could only be defeated due to sealing jutsu. Edo Tensei was truly presumed evil due to Orochimaru performing it, leading to Kabuto using it in the current war arc we are presented now, Orochimaru was truly the one to corrupt the concept of the jutsu, with Madara doing it some justice admitting that the creation of the jutsu could enable an army to wipe out a map. Orochimaru was right, Hashirama probably had stated the same Edo Tensei shouldn't have been created, however it had good intentions, but was abused with the wrong users.


    Conclusion


    • Tobirama settles the Uchiha's "wild infatuation problem" so no harm comes to the village (the main objective)
    • Power is given to the Uchiha Clan to put to use their Mangekyou Sharingan's incredible power (protecting the village, and chances of getting themselves killed)
    • Edo Tensei created to stop wars, and instability of the Uchiha Clan, but later used for corrupted purposes (attacking the Leaf Village, and support the war)
    • Look at the situation from Tobirama's point of view, what would you have done? (You can't please everyone)


    Addition by KGB Kakuzu:

    Addition by Derp Obito:
    I don't blame tobirama fr creating Edo tensei. I don't find anythng wrong there. He thought creating this jutsu might be a landmark.nd a great achievement fr him nd fr ninja world. It was bcuz it was dangerous that it put as a forbidden jutsu later when they realised it. If it's a forbidden jutsu then its nt meant to used.u cant blame the creater fr that. If someone is using such.a dangerous forbidden jutsu to destroy the world rather than to fr it's benefit then they r to blame bcuz acc. to me it cn be used both to destroy nd to benefit ninjas.As fr the Uchihas I thnk he must be having a reason. I don't thnk it was right to keep them isolated dem the rest of the village. I thnk they should have been given more voice in the administration nd daily life. They would naturally thnk that their clan is nt getting the right it deserves as it had equally helped in setting up konoha nd they would think others would thnk them inferior to the senjus.
     
         
    Last edited by Priyam Bhowmick; 02-17-2013 at 08:55 AM.

  25. #225
    Academy Student Nicolas Cage's Avatar
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    Re: (DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

    Tobirama was a racist... there is no way around it.

    The guy was involved in a war with the Uchiha clan as a child and as a young adult. Later when his brother ( a genuinely Good person and a great leader, Hashirama ) had a choice to kill the leader of the Uchiha or to make a pact with him in order to establish peace, Tobirama tried to make his brother believe he should not do that and that they should just kill this "Evil Uchiha leader". Once Konoha was built he made sure Uchiha Madara would not get in a position of power and used the "Democracy" card. He made sure he would become the second Hokage. Some years later after his brother was dead, he decided that these Uchiha's were to dangerous because of their "genes" and that they can not be trusted and therefore they deserve to be put in a ghetto and be spied on 24/7 by his secret service aka the Anbu aka The Gestapo. (Sound familiar anyone O_o ? ). He decided that Uchiha's will get a position of "Great power"... watching a prison -_- . Of course there was no Uchiha member even considered as a potential future Hokage which was proven when he decided that Sarutobi Hiruzen should be the next Hokage ( A great Ninja but also someone who later had proven to have the balls to order a genocide of an entire clan/race.) something i am sure Tobirama was aware of ( Aware of the fact that Sarutobi would have the guts to make hard decisions not aware that he will probably wipe out the Uchiha clan ). I wonder where was Tobirama's famous love for "Democracy" then. Of course one can always argue that he probably knew that he was about to get killed and that Danzo was a little to extreme but then again... aren't the people of Konoha the ones who deserve to choose their next leader??

    All in all i don't personally think that this guy was truly evil or that he even had plans of getting rid of The Uchiha's for good. I think he was just a man who lost most of his family at the hands of the Uchiha's as a young man and was raised to hate and never trust an Uchiha. He probably did his best to lead the village but since he doesn't seem to be sorry that he basically made the very existence of the Uchiha's in Konoha uncomfortable to say the least... tells me that he probably had some serious issues...

    Last but not least... HEIL TOBIRAMA!
     
         

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