Tobirama's Actions: Justified or Unjustified

[★Sir Derp Obito]

Are Tobirama Senju's actions justified or not and why?

[Thundercles]

Completely justified.

He was around when the 2 clans warred each other. He was right to have suspicions and to do the most good with that clan that he could. It was just a bad situation. He is a victim of circumstances.

[HashiramaDescendant]

Can you refute any of his claims?

[ItzShowtime]

justified all the way

[Arcane Angel]

Justified. The safety and up bringing of the whole village comes first over a clan. Tobirama could've laid down a much more harsh law upon the Uchihas, yet he didn't even after their leaders failed attempt of a revolt.

[★Sir Derp Obito]

Can you refute any of his claims?

We can take a neutral observer's evaluation of his actions.

[Melanee]

Ah my friend, I was wondering when you'd make this topic. lol I really enjoy all your topics!

I'd said justified. I don't agree with how he went about it (I'm more like Hashirama) but he did it for the safety of many and even then, instead of killing them like what happened later, he tried to give them jobs.

[chancek7]

Everything he has said has been on point so I say yes.

[★Sir Derp Obito]

Ah my friend, I was wondering when you'd make this topic. lol I really enjoy all your topics!

I'd said justified. I don't agree with how he went about it (I'm more like Hashirama) but he did it for the safety of many and even then, instead of killing them like what happened later, he tried to give them jobs.

Indeed, his actions have a two-fold motive, turn the Uchihas' powers for the cause of the greater good and keep an eye on the, incase their curse if hatred becomes detrimental to the welfare of Konoha

[Kages]

I wouldn't say so. Depends, he has done many things

[★Sir Derp Obito]

I wouldn't say so. Depends, he has done many things

Like the creation of Edo Tensei?

[AnbuWhite]

Someone always has to do the dirty work. and Tobirama is the illest. I like guys like him

[Oblargagh]

What were Tobirama's actions?

As far as I know, Tobirama encouraged the Uchiha to become Konoha's police force. I do not know if he did anything else to them.

It does not seem as though Tobirama forced the Uchiha to do anything. Tobirama never restricted them either.

[Melanee]

Like the creation of Edo Tensei?

That's an interesting one to debate. I don't approve of him creating it but at the same time it seems like it was meant to happen or where would Sasuke find his answers?

[razorfield9]

He's a much better politician than his brother was (certainly)- interesting to see him elect the third over Danzo (who APPEARS to be most similar to him at first). Ultimately, I think he is wise and had the experience to make 'tough' decisions. I wonder if Tobirama would have preferred to see Danzo in charge given how ruthless he was in getting things done for the sake of the village (though it's also evident that the Third was equally capable of making tough calls). Maybe we can view the third as a combo of some of Hashirama's carefree attitude and Tobirama's pragmatism...

[Wood Release]

Not justified in my oppinion. Konoha was created on the basis of a unification of the two most powerful clans, Uchiha and Senju. Tobirama was basically discriminating a whole group because of a single induvidual and isn't justified. Would you justify all the white people of this world getting discrimiated after Hitler? no. How bout musilms and bin laden? nope.

[AnbuWhite]

Like the creation of Edo Tensei?

like I said, someone has to do the dirty work. Thinking back to when he tried to choke out saru under water. Homie plays rough. I love it

[SAmIDeXtEr]

probably, depends on what he has done for KONOHA and The UCHIHA's

[FearxDeath]

As tobimrama already stated, the village comes first. Above the individual, above your standards and above morality. If creating a dangerous jutsu means the safety of the village them he'll make that decision 9 times out of 10.

But as you can see hindsight is always 20/20, now that the jutsu has been used this way we can all say, NO that was a horrible idea. But at the time it was thought that the jutsu could be kept secret and its power contained. As far as I am concerned, the idea was great, it was the execution that failed.

[KingHashirama]

That really isn't that bad.. he himself said it was a deal. But those actions did lead to well.. you know X_X

And he did it after the Shodai specifically told him not to do that kind of stuff.

As tobimrama already stated, the village comes first. Above the individual, above your standards and above morality. If creating a dangerous jutsu means the safety of the village them he'll make that decision 9 times out of 10.

But as you can see hindsight is always 20/20, now that the jutsu has been used this way we can all say, NO that was a horrible idea. But at the time it was thought that the jutsu could be kept secret and its power contained. As far as I am concerned, the idea was great, it was the execution that failed.

Village = group of people

NOT group of buildings.

[Q of the Sharingan]

His actions where justified to a point. Making the Uchiha the police was a smart and logical move. Shunning them from further village politics was not. He seemed to begrudgingly give the Uchiha important roles and even them made sure to keep them restricted. He could have handled the situation better.

[Unbiased King]

Well it's a gray area. Sure no one wanted another Madara running around but Tobi didn't have to treat them like animals to ensure that.

I think it's given that if you isolate a person or clan inside of a former prison, you're treating them unjustly. Maybe he merely became Hokage because Hashi was his brother.

[Wood Release]

Well it's a gray area. Sure no one wanted another Madara running around but Tobi didn't have to treat them like animals to ensure that.

I think it's given that if you isolate a person or clan inside of a former prison, you're treating them unjustly. Maybe he merely became Hokage because Hashi was his brother.

Agreed :D

[KGB Kakuzu]

Justified...and this chapter finally confirmed it.

First of all it is good to denote Tobirama's personality: He is straight forward, blunt, and he doesn't sugar coat what he says. So clearly he distrusts the Uchiha, and because of his personality he comes of as kind of an ass.

We also have to establish his views on the Uchiha in order to respect just how much he actually did for them.

Tobirama clearly disliked the Uchiha...saying he hated them is honestly an arguable possibility. But why shouldn't he?! He grew up constantly killing, and having his friends and family killed by them. Finally, they decided to make peace....and then what happens? The leader of the enemy clan, that they were finally trying to get over their hatred and losses, decides to fight his brother in what at the time was a fight to the death. I have a brother (honestly any sibling would do) so I can personally say that if someone tries to kill him...it isn't something you would tolerate. Despite this he understood the problem that the Uchiha faced, and found a solution for it. He explained that the Uchiha's power comes from basically heart break, and this leads them to go basically crazy with anger and power. This shows that even though he hated his enemy, he understood them as well as respected them (telling Orochimaru he doesn't understand Madara).

Despite his mistrust of the Uchiha, and the risk they could pose with the prospect of heart break he still did what he did.

By establishing the Konoha Police Force he did 3 things:

1. Gave the Uchiha clan an important role to partake in for the village's sake.
2. Gave the Uchiha a way to utilize their broken hearts and power to keep criminals from harming the village as well as to keep them from losing themselves in madness by being able to exercise their power.
3. Kept Konoha save (having the Police standing right by the prision...not only police, but VERY STRONG police to catch any escaped prisoners or handle a riot).

By giving them this role he also could have tried to make those in the clan who didn't secretly support Madara realize and try to convince those who did that their was no reason to go against Konoha...because instead of a rivalry they now had a family home of a village to defend. This same concept explains why Kagami or whatever the name of the Uchiha that was in Tobirama's squad during his final moments was even in the squad. Despite not liking Uchiha, Tobirama still tried to involve them in Konoha. He even sacrificed himself trusting that the next generation (including the Uchiha) would defend Konoha.

Tobirama's actions seem very just (though we still don't know what is up with Edo Tensei...), but the problem is that his personality makes it seem like he is just being a completely distrusting douchebag....and this is exactly what the Uchiha who supported Madara thought. They thought Tobirama was just being a prick.