[Spoilers] Underestimated Joker

[Lt Fresh]

Not to long ago I said I think Luffy, Law and Smoker could beat Joker.
-Now this week I see that I am incorrect.

-IMO Smoker and Luffy are on the same level. If not they are pretty close to each other, Smoker is basically Garp for Luffy, if Luffy is Roger.
--I also assume that Law can't be that much stronger than Luffy if he is at all.

BUT!!!

Seeing what Joker did to Smoker makes me wonder how powerful he truly is. Joker easily tossed Smoker to the ground with no effort. I imagine he would be able to do the same thing to Luffy and Law even if it was a 3 on 1 battle.

-Joker is far beyond the level of a vice Admiral from what he has shown. But is he Admiral level? It seems as if he stopped his attack as soon as Aokiji, which makes me think that Aokiji is above him in power.

So I have 2 questions.

1) How strong do you think Joker is? Is he Vice Admiral strength or Admiral or somewhere in the middle?

2) If Joker is this strong and he fears Kaido, how in the world will Team Luffy and Team Law defeat him?

[Okami the butcher]

in my opinion Luffy is stronger then Smoker after the time skip and for Joker's strength I'd say he might be equal to an Admiral

and Law already said if they team up the chances of them beating Kaido is 30%

[VariaBossX]

stopped when you said luffy and smoker are on the same level.
That is absolutely false, sanji stalemated vergo. Law spared smokers life, and
luffy is way better than law in a fight. Please i assure you these guys can take out
doflamingo together.

[Jellal Fernandes]

I never thought that they would go for Kaido first...But i guess it does make sense...Now i'm interested to know who is imprisoned in Dressrosa...You know what would be mind blowing? If enel was down here as well...Where is that dude? lol

[sasuke007]

stopped when you said luffy and smoker are on the same level.
That is absolutely false, sanji stalemated vergo. Law spared smokers life, and
luffy is way better than law in a fight. Please i assure you these guys can take out
doflamingo together.

i agree

[Lt Fresh]

stopped when you said luffy and smoker are on the same level.
That is absolutely false, sanji stalemated vergo. Law spared smokers life, and
luffy is way better than law in a fight. Please i assure you these guys can take out
doflamingo together.

-Smoker will get on Luffy's level, he isn't far from it.

-Smoker wasn't fully fighting Vergo, he was trying to get Law's heart back

-When it comes down to a fight Law's power trumps Luffy's. Law wins that fight

-Lastly Joker has proven to be on a whole nother level than the three of them. Law is afraid to fight him and Smoker got whipped, Luffy won't be able to do much. Plus Joker said the StrawHats are a joke

[Lt Fresh]

in my opinion Luffy is stronger then Smoker after the time skip and for Joker's strength I'd say he might be equal to an Admiral

and Law already said if they team up the chances of them beating Kaido is 30%

-I agree currently Luffy maybe a tad stronger than Smoker but he isn't that far behind.

-IMO Joker is a little under Admiral level, I only say this b/c I can see him losing to the current one and the 2 ex Admirals.

-Yea I know Law said 30% but I'm just wondering what their plan is, and if they will team up with X Drake

[Okami the butcher]

-I agree currently Luffy maybe a tad stronger than Smoker but he isn't that far behind.

-IMO Joker is a little under Admiral level, I only say this b/c I can see him losing to the current one and the 2 ex Admirals.

-Yea I know Law said 30% but I'm just wondering what their plan is, and if they will team up with X Drake

it's possible seeing how he wants to go after Kaido to but i wouldn't be surprised if all the supernovas teamed up to take down Kaido and just split his territory

[KGB Kakuzu]

I'd say Luffy is much stronger than Smoker...as someone mentioned Sanju was about equal to Vergo who gave Smoker a hard time.

Joker though is also above Smoker....he's probably imbetween vice admiral and admiral level....clearly Aokiji is scary.

[Lt Fresh]

I'd say Luffy is much stronger than Smoker...as someone mentioned Sanju was about equal to Vergo who gave Smoker a hard time.

Joker though is also above Smoker....he's probably imbetween vice admiral and admiral level....clearly Aokiji is scary.

I think the idea that Sanji is equal to Vergo is incorrect. Saying that is almost saying that Sanji is almost on the same level as Law, which is right.

Plus Smoker was only fighting Vergo to get back Law's heart. If it wasn't for that I think Smoker would have done a much better job in that fight.

But if Luffy were to fight Vergo, could Luffy actually win? Vergo's Haki is way better than Luffy's. Vergo would be able to resist all of Luffy's hits, while Luffy wouldn't be able to defend himself against Vergo's Haki infused hits

[VariaBossX]

-Smoker will get on Luffy's level, he isn't far from it.

-Smoker wasn't fully fighting Vergo, he was trying to get Law's heart back

-When it comes down to a fight Law's power trumps Luffy's. Law wins that fight

-Lastly Joker has proven to be on a whole nother level than the three of them. Law is afraid to fight him and Smoker got whipped, Luffy won't be able to do much. Plus Joker said the StrawHats are a joke

these are false, joker never said strawhats are jokes in fact he told ceaser to be careful of luffy
that he might be better than law. I never posted anything about smoker fighting vergo but Law ( which smoker lost).
No matter how youook at it Luffy will break law ( Eustrass kid not so much), there is a reason why Law wants the strawhats
to die by kaidou, he cant do it himself. Luffy is superior in haki and fighting hand to hand, as well as doflamingo.
Do flamingo is the most dangerous warlord, not most powerful.

[Lt Fresh]

these are false, joker never said strawhats are jokes in fact he told ceaser to be careful of luffy
that he might be better than law. I never posted anything about smoker fighting vergo but Law ( which smoker lost).
No matter how youook at it Luffy will break law ( Eustrass kid not so much), there is a reason why Law wants the strawhats
to die by kaidou, he cant do it himself. Luffy is superior in haki and fighting hand to hand, as well as doflamingo.
Do flamingo is the most dangerous warlord, not most powerful.

-My mistake he didn't say they were a joke he said they were lightweights oops


-What makes you think Law can't easily remove Luffy's heart like he did to the whole strawhat crew and Smoker?
--His room-room power will allow him to do it with ease.
---Law could have easily asked any of the other supernovas for help. Kid is making a team and Law could have easily joined them.
--I'm not saying Luffy is weak. He is far from weak but Luffy was there and Law used what he had.

Law can defeat Luffy in a 1v1 fight.

[orochimaru02]

You know, we haven't seen Luffy fight seriously, not after Rayleigh's training. I hope you don't think that when fighting against Hody or Caesar he used his full potential. I don't say he's way more powerful than smoker but i do think he's above him in power in some way. So about this Joker affair I do think Luffy may have some possibilities of fighting with him and even give him some hard time (not saying that Luffy would win), first of all because he always gets some power up when fighting with stronger opponents; remember Blueno for example, it took Luffy no time to learn his movements, use them and even make them faster and stronger. On the other side we have to consider what will Joker be doing now that Aokiji's arrived. **** just got real Yo

[Lt Fresh]

You know, we haven't seen Luffy fight seriously, not after Rayleigh's training. I hope you don't think that when fighting against Hody or Caesar he used his full potential. I don't say he's way more powerful than smoker but i do think he's above him in power in some way. So about this Joker affair I do think Luffy may have some possibilities of fighting with him and even give him some hard time (not saying that Luffy would win), first of all because he always gets some power up when fighting with stronger opponents; remember Blueno for example, it took Luffy no time to learn his movements, use them and even make them faster and stronger. On the other side we have to consider what will Joker be doing now that Aokiji's arrived. **** just got real Yo

I have to disagree with you there though. I do think Luffy went all out against Hordy. Luffy even pasted out after the fight b/c he put so much strain on his body in that fight. Luffy used his strongest move to win the fight and even showed a new move, used both 2nd and 3rd gear. We saw Luffy's max power at that point.
-I do agree though that Hordy should have been defeated very easily but his stupid pills kept him going

Joker's power is way to strong for Luffy. As far as we know Joker could easily puppet Luffy or cut him in seconds

[orochimaru02]

Actually fishman island's arc puts us to wonder if Luffy really used his best moves, i don't think second and third gear remain as Luffy's best weapon, elephant gun and all that stuff are no wonder strong and big scale attacks but I still think we'll be seeing some surprises from Luffy and his crew. IMO even though he passed out it was due to the fact of being underwater which gave him more fatigue than usual. As I said he can't win against Joker at this point, but how about developing something stronger than third gear, for example, when he first used second gear we had no idea he would someday achieve that, we firstly thought he would remain using "gomu gomu" attacks......let's say that we could still receive some huge surprises from the strawhat's crew. The show remains in Aokiji fighting Joker

[Lt Fresh]

Actually fishman island's arc puts us to wonder if Luffy really used his best moves, i don't think second and third gear remain as Luffy's best weapon, elephant gun and all that stuff are no wonder strong and big scale attacks but I still think we'll be seeing some surprises from Luffy and his crew. IMO even though he passed out it was due to the fact of being underwater which gave him more fatigue than usual. As I said he can't win against Joker at this point, but how about developing something stronger than third gear, for example, when he first used second gear we had no idea he would someday achieve that, we firstly thought he would remain using "gomu gomu" attacks......let's say that we could still receive some huge surprises from the strawhat's crew. The show remains in Aokiji fighting Joker

-I agree Luffy most have a better move in his book, but from what we have seen it is only fare to judge what he has shown. He and his team most have grown and it is still early in part 2, so we will see more no doubt. As Luffy fights stronger opponents he will most def get stronger and better moves. But all I'm saying is right now is that from what we have seen Vergo would have beaten him if they fought.
-The water could have been a huge factor, But for the most part he stayed in a bubble, or the bubble on Noah.
-Right now Joker is probably going to flee from Aokiji, I doubt Joker can take someone who was considered to be Fleet Admiral

[Uchiha Usman]

1) Vice Admiral level

2) ahahah good point there

[VariaBossX]

-My mistake he didn't say they were a joke he said they were lightweights oops


-What makes you think Law can't easily remove Luffy's heart like he did to the whole strawhat crew and Smoker?
--His room-room power will allow him to do it with ease.
---Law could have easily asked any of the other supernovas for help. Kid is making a team and Law could have easily joined them.
--I'm not saying Luffy is weak. He is far from weak but Luffy was there and Law used what he had.

Law can defeat Luffy in a 1v1 fight.

doflamingo said luffy might be better/strongr deending n the translation. Law cant stop luffy, luffy is more superior in haki than law(FACT)
law needs to stand still to complete room, luffy does not. Luffy is faster and physically stronger than law, the only way law can beat luffy is
prep time and stradegy. Beside that i cant see law surviving red hawk, ceasar boasted and said he was stronger than law and luffy was kickung the ****
out of ceaser senslessly. Law may be a warlord now, butluffy already had warlord status level pre timeskip.

[shri3kbat]

The hype of Doflamingo was simply confirmed, and how some could deny it with a chapter about him named "A very dangerous man", him
stopping Jozu like nothing, cutting off Crocodile's head like nothing, cutting of a giant's leg like nothing, dodging all kinds of **** (like nothing) and yet think Luffy could match him in pure strength, that I can't understand lol
However Luffy has beaten stronger opponents than himself already (Crocodile, Enel, Moria for example) and it's given he will find a way to defeat Doflamingo too

I think the only way of comparing Doflamingo and Aokiji is see how they handle this. They may both have grown some since the timeskip
DD is clearly above vice admiral level and slightly below admiral lvl imo

[jonsnow1991]

Actually fishman island's arc puts us to wonder if Luffy really used his best moves, i don't think second and third gear remain as Luffy's best weapon, elephant gun and all that stuff are no wonder strong and big scale attacks but I still think we'll be seeing some surprises from Luffy and his crew. IMO even though he passed out it was due to the fact of being underwater which gave him more fatigue than usual. As I said he can't win against Joker at this point, but how about developing something stronger than third gear, for example, when he first used second gear we had no idea he would someday achieve that, we firstly thought he would remain using "gomu gomu" attacks......let's say that we could still receive some huge surprises from the strawhat's crew. The show remains in Aokiji fighting Joker

I agree. Luffy has gone up against way stronger opponents before, against Crocodile and Lucci, and both times, he was the last man standing. We haven't seen Luffy go all out yet, except when he smashed up Noah, so we don't really know where his current level is at. Caesar was just fodder to Luffy. And due to plot and character progression, Luffy will defeat Doflamingo if they fight, and most likely show some new moves along the way. Luffy beat Hody like three different times or so, and the last time, Hody had EXTREME power. Remember, one of those pills made you twice as strong as you were before, and he ate A LOT of them

[Simple Math]

well as I said, Oda doesn't hype his characters up for nothing. I expected DD to be this strong atleast, no, even stronger.

[Lt Fresh]

doflamingo said luffy might be better/strongr deending n the translation. Law cant stop luffy, luffy is more superior in haki than law(FACT)
law needs to stand still to complete room, luffy does not. Luffy is faster and physically stronger than law, the only way law can beat luffy is
prep time and stradegy. Beside that i cant see law surviving red hawk, ceasar boasted and said he was stronger than law and luffy was kickung the ****
out of ceaser senslessly. Law may be a warlord now, butluffy already had warlord status level pre timeskip.

Fighting Law with Haki is useless we saw what he did to Vergo whose Haki power is way better than Luffy's.
-Law's cutting power is greater than Luffy's Haki.
-It takes a couple secs for Luffy to get into 2nd gear which makes him fast, that gives Law time to activate his room and do as he needs.
-Law out smarts Luffy easy.

-I agree if Law was to take 1 powerful hit from Luffy he would lose but we have seen techs that Law can use to that doesn't require room at all
--Mes: When Law removed the heart of Smoker. Law can use that same tech on Luffy
--Counter Shock: Sure it won't hurt Luffy but it would catch him off guard
--Law's cutting power is unreal, he cut the whole island in half which would do major damage against Luffy

[VariaBossX]

The hype of Doflamingo was simply confirmed, and how some could deny it with a chapter about him named "A very dangerous man", him
stopping Jozu like nothing, cutting off Crocodile's head like nothing, cutting of a giant's leg like nothing, dodging all kinds of **** (like nothing) and yet think Luffy could match him in pure strength, that I can't understand lol
However Luffy has beaten stronger opponents than himself already (Crocodile, Enel, Moria for example) and it's given he will find a way to defeat Doflamingo too

I think the only way of comparing Doflamingo and Aokiji is see how they handle this. They may both have grown some since the timeskip
DD is clearly above vice admiral level and slightly below admiral lvl imo

1. Jozu was fighting crocodile, that's cheating to attack from behind
2. Your teilling me he can beat crococdile? No
3. Cutting oar's leg shouldn't be hard after Kuma Ursa shock him with an island busting move
4. He got hit with crocodiles shables, he dodged nothing.

I'm not flaming or misjudging you, but ppl seem to be over exaggerating doflamingo's level and implying that he is Admiral level. :/

[VariaBossX]

Fighting Law with Haki is useless we saw what he did to Vergo whose Haki power is way better than Luffy's.
-Law's cutting power is greater than Luffy's Haki.
-It takes a couple secs for Luffy to get into 2nd gear which makes him fast, that gives Law time to activate his room and do as he needs.
-Law out smarts Luffy easy.

-I agree if Law was to take 1 powerful hit from Luffy he would lose but we have seen techs that Law can use to that doesn't require room at all
--Mes: When Law removed the heart of Smoker. Law can use that same tech on Luffy
--Counter Shock: Sure it won't hurt Luffy but it would catch him off guard
--Law's cutting power is unreal, he cut the whole island in half which would do major damage against Luffy

Are we reading the same thing? Vergo seems to be a very profiecent armor haki user, he doen't have conquers haki which putt you above the rest. Luffy>vergo in terms of haki. The fact that you said it takes a couple of sec for luffy to use 2nd gear which is enough time for law to make room? No it doesn't he has never done room under 30sec let alone 2? You shouldn't speculate these things Law knows he can't take on Luffy and Eustress. He mastered, yes emphasis on master haki with the first mate of gol rogers. Law is strong but there is no one in hell who was able to keep up with vice admiral speed in pre timeskip gonna lose to some how is so vulnerable outside the circle, it's not possible.

[Simple Math]

1. Jozu was fighting crocodile, that's cheating to attack from behind
2. Your teilling me he can beat crococdile? No
3. Cutting oar's leg shouldn't be hard after Kuma Ursa shock him with an island busting move
4. He got hit with crocodiles shables, he dodged nothing.

I'm not flaming or misjudging you, but ppl seem to be over exaggerating doflamingo's level and implying that he is Admiral level. :/

about the Jozu thing. it would'nt matter if Jozu stood infront of him. all he had to do was move his fingers.