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  1. #26
    Blazing Will! CrimsonFire's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    I half agree with you, meaning I agree with you on the time line with 1st and 2nd hokage, but at same time I disagree there is a problem with the time line dealing with Obito age.
     
         

  2. #27
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    I never really saw it as a timelime issue, it's just by Kishi making this clear, allows us to know more correctly, when the 1st war started, and thereby when Hashirama died. It also allows us to know, how long Tobirama was hokage.
    IMO, I thought it was not the case that Hashi ever knew Tsunade, simply because it makes Tobirama's time as hokage very short.

    Databook states pretty clearly that Hashirama died before the 1st war, and they also state that the war started right after Tobirama became hokage.

    This is also logic. Hashirama was a beast, and none wanted to war Konoha during his regime. Also he wanted to maintain peace more than anyone else. With him dead, the other nations no longer feared going to war against each other, or Konoha for that matter.

    However, my issue with this, is that picture of Tobirama, Hashirama, and young team Hiruzen. Hashirama doesn't look much older, than he looks in his edo tensei form. Tobirama, however, changed a lot. Of course, Hashirama might just have reached a point, where his physical form didn't change any further, like the end of puberty, lol..

    Still, it kinda spits on Tobirama. IMO he couldn't have been hokage for more than a year, if Tsunade should have a chance, to have known Hashirama. And she still needs to have been at least 3 or 4 years old. So Hiruzen kinda had to be, let's say 22 years old, when he became hokage, then it matches if Hashirama died 1 year before this, making Tsunade about 3-4 years old, so she could talk and remember Hashirama.

    It's just, the reason many "time-line" creators, will have trouble with this, is that they would assume Tobirama couldn't have made Police force and academy, plus start a war, make peace negotiations with the 2nd raikage, where he had a fight with kin/gin bro's and nearly died, and then later be killed by the kinkaku force.

    But now Kishi cleared this part of the timeline, so all these events should probably happen in the first year of the war.
     
         

  3. #28
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFire View Post
    I half agree with you, meaning I agree with you on the time line with 1st and 2nd hokage, but at same time I disagree there is a problem with the time line dealing with Obito age.
    Huh, what's wrong with the Obito timeline?
    That fits too. :shrug:
     
         

  4. #29
    Wisdom and Courage Honord Sage's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    3RD Hokage was in His 70 when He died and Tsunade was in Her midd 50 when She took over no discrepancy their,If you think Kishi din't take account of time line, don't you think His staff would have corrected any error like that before publication? So manny people are involve in the making of Manga, they go ver the new chapter Kishi makes to correct any thing that might look wrong the publishing industry can't afford major errors to just slip out.
     
         

  5. #30
    Blazing Will! CrimsonFire's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirin Rei View Post
    Huh, what's wrong with the Obito timeline?
    That fits too. :shrug:
    Not exactly and I will try my best to explain why I think so. Far as the timeline is concern for Obito I seen a problematic with it over all dealing with Obitos age. First is dealing with Obitos actual age, ok Kakashi graduate from the ninja academy at the age of five due to Kakashi great skills and aptitude, however Obito graduate from the ninja academy at the age of nine same for Rin. This means Obito is actually four years older then Kakashi. When team Minato enter the chunin exams Kakashi was six years old when became chunin, at that time this would make Obito ten years old because the chunin exam took place a year later after Kakashi, Rin, and Obito graduate from the ninja academy. Obito became a chunin years later and by that time Kakashi was a jounin at the age of 13, so that means Obito should be seventeen years old during Kakashi gaiden.


    Here comes the weird thing Obito and Kakashi had similar height, even though at this point Obito should be seventeen and taller then Kakashi. It was also stated in the data book that Obito was 13 years old when he was presume dead making Obito the same age as Kakashi during Kakashi gaiden. During the events with the nine tails attack the village twelve years before the Naruto series start. Obito was fourteen years old when he fought Mintao, since apparently Obito is the same is Kakashi because Kakashi was fourteen during that event(subtract his age at the start of the story 26). Meaning when Obito attack the village one year has past since Kakashi gaiden. Obito should be eighteen when he fought Minato not fourteen. So in conclusion Obito should be older the he appears.
     
         
    Last edited by CrimsonFire; 02-09-2013 at 04:26 AM.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Regulus's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    AS usual great post
    *****
     
         

  7. #32
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Personally, as someone who has to shave twice a day, "Lets give a year or two for that damned goatee to grow." is very believable.
     
         

  8. #33
    Senior Member Sarutobi Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFire View Post
    Not exactly and I will try my best to explain why I think so. Far as the timeline is concern for Obito I seen a problematic with it over all dealing with Obitos age. First is dealing with Obitos actual age, ok Kakashi graduate from the ninja academy at the age of five due to Kakashi great skills and aptitude, however Obito graduate from the ninja academy at the age of nine same for Rin. This means Obito is actually four years older then Kakashi. When team Minato enter the chunin exams Kakashi was six years old when became chunin, at that time this would make Obito ten years old because the chunin exam took place a year later after Kakashi, Rin, and Obito graduate from the ninja academy. Obito became a chunin years later and by that time Kakashi was a jounin at the age of 13, so that means Obito should be seventeen years old during Kakashi gaiden.


    Here comes the weird thing Obito and Kakashi had similar height, even though at this point Obito should be seventeen and taller then Kakashi. It was also stated in the data book that Obito was 13 years old when he was presume dead making Obito the same age as Kakashi during Kakashi gaiden. During the events with the nine tails attack the village twelve years before the Naruto series start. Obito was fourteen years old when he fought Mintao, since apparently Obito is the same is Kakashi because Kakashi was fourteen during that event(subtract his age at the start of the story 26). Meaning when Obito attack the village one year has past since Kakashi gaiden. Obito should be eighteen when he fought Minato not fourteen. So in conclusion Obito should be older the he appears.
    There's a couple of facts that dictate what a Kakashi vs Obito timescale would look like. An those are:
    • They both enrolled at the acadamy at the same time as seen here.
    • Kakashi graduated from the Academy a year after enrolling.
    • Kakashi became a chuunin on his first try (or even second try; it took him one year and Chuunin exams are held twice a year).
    • Kakashi and Obito was on the same team, at the same time, during the same chuunin exam.(this part is critical).
    • Obito became a chuunin on his third or forth attempt (it took him two years, Chuunin exams are held twice a year).
    • Kakashi becomes a Jounin just before Obito dies as depicted here and here.
    • Kakashi was 14 during the Kyuubi Attack
    So here's the Timescale based on the facts from above:
    • Kakashi (4) and Obito (8) enters enrolls the Acadamy
    • Kakashi (5) and Obito (9) graduates from the Acadamy
    • Kakashi (6) becomes a chuunin; Obito (10) fails
    • Kakashi (7); Obito (11) becomes a chuunin
    • Kakashi (9) becomes a jounin; Obito (13) presumably dies
    • Kakashi (14) ; Obito (18) attacks Konaha using Kyuubi


    The conclusion is that Kakashi must be 9 when he becomes a Jounin and he must also be 4 years younger than Obito for the timescale to work.

    So, the one piece of evidence that would destroy the timeline is proving that Kakashi was 13 and not 9 when he became a jounin, but I can't think of anything at all. Somebody else might just come along and provide something decisive. Since I cant seem to find any evidence that contradicts this decisively I'll just accept, for the moment, that there's still nothing wrong with the timeline (I'm a bit more skeptical now...but it works. So, yeah.).

    Anyway, the one thing that bothers me the most is the fact that Obito & Rin also graduated from the academy in a year and they enrolled at an unusually late age. The only way around this is if students are required to fill in entrance papers on a yearly basis.

    Also, in your pic that you posted, you'll notice that Kakashi's actually shorter than Obito (compare the height of their chins and headbands).



     
         
    Last edited by Sarutobi Sasuke; 02-09-2013 at 06:09 PM.

  9. #34
    Premium User iKaras's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Just how old is Hashi?
     
         

  10. #35
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confusion View Post
    Just how old is Hashi?
    Well, who knows?
    He was definitely well into his 30s (or even older) when Hiruzen was a kid, so that means that if he was alive he would definitely be more than a 100 years old. That's the closest we can get to guessing his age. :shrug:
     
         

  11. #36
    Blazing Will! CrimsonFire's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarutobi Sasuke View Post
    There's a couple of facts that dictate what a Kakashi vs Obito timescale would look like. An those are:
    • They both enrolled at the acadamy at the same time as seen here.
    • Kakashi graduated from the Academy a year after enrolling.
    • Kakashi became a chuunin on his first try (or even second try; it took him one year and Chuunin exams are held twice a year).
    • Kakashi and Obito was on the same team, at the same time, during the same chuunin exam.(this part is critical).
    • Obito became a chuunin on his third or forth attempt (it took him two years, Chuunin exams are held twice a year).
    • Kakashi becomes a Jounin just before Obito dies as depicted here and here.
    • Kakashi was 14 during the Kyuubi Attack
    So here's the Timescale based on the facts from above:
    • Kakashi (4) and Obito (8) enters enrolls the Acadamy
    • Kakashi (5) and Obito (9) graduates from the Acadamy
    • Kakashi (6) becomes a chuunin; Obito (10) fails
    • Kakashi (7); Obito (11) becomes a chuunin
    • Kakashi (9) becomes a jounin; Obito (13) presumably dies
    • Kakashi (14) ; Obito (18) attacks Konaha using Kyuubi


    The conclusion is that Kakashi must be 9 when he becomes a Jounin and he must also be 4 years younger than Obito for the timescale to work.

    So, the one piece of evidence that would destroy the timeline is proving that Kakashi was 13 and not 9 when he became a jounin, but I can't think of anything at all. Somebody else might just come along and provide something decisive. Since I cant seem to find any evidence that contradicts this decisively I'll just accept, for the moment, that there's still nothing wrong with the timeline (I'm a bit more skeptical now...but it works. So, yeah.).

    Anyway, the one thing that bothers me the most is the fact that Obito & Rin also graduated from the academy in a year and they enrolled at an unusually late age. The only way around this is if students are required to fill in entrance papers on a yearly basis.

    Also, in your pic that you posted, you'll notice that Kakashi's actually shorter than Obito (compare the height of their chins and headbands).



    Far as the timeline goes, yeah it's no big deal, though it bugs me . Kakashi was thirteen when he became jounin not nine lol(start of kakashi gaiden) and yes Obito was presume dead at the age of 13, but Obito is four years older then Kakashi, so Obito should be 17 during Kakashi gaiden not 13. Like I said before Obito should older then he appears and I said Obito was to similar in height with Kakashi not exactly the same. Obito should be a lot taller then Kakashi and same for Rin during Kakashi gaiden.
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    i think this timeline sounds logical, i mean shes right, all that **** has happened in konoha in a matter of a year...the war has only been going on a few days so far and they have accomplished more than they should have already (both sides) logically speaking. its very possible all that happened between hashi's death and the point saru became kage. it seems weirder to me that hashi doesnt look nearly old enough to be a grandpa lol but time wise it makes sense.

    saru went through alot during that time, maybe thats why he looks older in some pics than others? some characters age gracefully (tsunade, hashi, jiraiya, oro, mei, a, etc) i mean do any of them look their age? itachi, kakashi, obito, kurenai and all of them dont look any different through the years besides their outfits changing (genin to chunin) im just rambling now. AND ITS NOT TOO LONG! long can make the best actual debates/questions/theories usually!

    great job as always kirin!
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    I didn't read your OP. I see no reason to, since there is already a thread on this, and nobody seems to have grasped the actual problem. The problem is not that it is impossible to create a timeline in which it would work, the problem is it contradicts the pre-existing timeline.

    I will make it easy for people by not writing a book on this. The essential problem is this:
    - Tsunade looks about 3 when she knew Hashi.
    - We know she and the Sannin graduated from the academy at age 6 (and in the flashback pics, they look 6 as well)
    - Hashi died before Tobirama, who died the day Hiruzen was made Hokage. Hiruzen looks like a teen that day.
    Somehow in the space of 3 years (the time we first see Tsunade in Hashi's flashback):
    - Hashi's reign ended
    - Tobirama's entire reign took place (quite alot fits in here)
    - Hiruzen aged from teenager to fully grown adult male (with a goatee), who looks at least several years older than teen Hiruzen.
    That says nothing of the databook timeline btw, which out and out contradicts it (because it gives us their ages, and their ages don't fit with what happened, Hiruzen and Tsunade I mean).

    Plus Jiraiya is the same age as Tsunade, and Jiraiya doesn't look to be in his mid 60's (which is where we get to if we do what some posters want to do, and re-invent the timeline).

    Yes. Kishi can do whatever he wants. But it clearly contradicts the existing timeline (esp the databook one).
     
         

  14. #39
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiStyle View Post
    I didn't read your OP. I see no reason to, since there is already a thread on this, and nobody seems to have grasped the actual problem. The problem is not that it is impossible to create a timeline in which it would work, the problem is it contradicts the pre-existing timeline.

    I will make it easy for people by not writing a book on this. The essential problem is this:
    - Tsunade looks about 3 when she knew Hashi.
    - We know she and the Sannin graduated from the academy at age 6 (and in the flashback pics, they look 6 as well)
    - Hashi died before Tobirama, who died the day Hiruzen was made Hokage. Hiruzen looks like a teen that day.
    Somehow in the space of 3 years (the time we first see Tsunade in Hashi's flashback):
    - Hashi's reign ended
    - Tobirama's entire reign took place (quite alot fits in here)
    - Hiruzen aged from teenager to fully grown adult male (with a goatee), who looks at least several years older than teen Hiruzen.
    That says nothing of the databook timeline btw, which out and out contradicts it (because it gives us their ages, and their ages don't fit with what happened, Hiruzen and Tsunade I mean).

    Plus Jiraiya is the same age as Tsunade, and Jiraiya doesn't look to be in his mid 60's (which is where we get to if we do what some posters want to do, and re-invent the timeline).

    Yes. Kishi can do whatever he wants. But it clearly contradicts the existing timeline (esp the databook one).
    From what I gather from your post, you should actually read the OP.
     
         

  15. #40
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Now try to explain the Obito timeline bro , i know its already impossible and its full of plothole's
     
         

  16. #41
    Senior Member Regulus's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexu9696 View Post
    Now try to explain the Obito timeline bro , i know its already impossible and its full of plothole's
    Explain what about Obito?
     
         

  17. #42
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexu9696 View Post
    Now try to explain the Obito timeline bro , i know its already impossible and its full of plothole's
    Huh, no, it's not.

    Kakashi, Obito and Rin were teammates but it's never been stated that they were at the same age.

    According to what we can deduce from the manga and databooks:

    - Kakashi graduated from the academy at age 5 and became a chuunin at age 6.
    - Obito graduated from the academy at age 9 and became a chuunin at age 11.
    - Seeing that they attended the same chuunin exam and were on the same team from the very start, Kakashi was teamed up with Obito when their respective ages were 5 and 9.
    - Obito presumably died at age 13 so we can deduce that Kakashi was promoted to jounin when he was 9-10 years old.
    - Kurama's attack took place 16 years before the present. Which means Kakashi was 13-14 and Obito was 17-18 back then.

    I see no problem with this.
     
         

  18. #43
    Senior Member Sasuke2's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    @OP, ur right about Obito, there's no problem with that.
    But you aren't correct about Tsunade/Hashirama as:
    -Konoha was founded 64-65 years prior to current events
    -Tobirama was Hokage already 5 years after it's founding, that's 60
    -Tsunade is 54... 54-60= -6
    -Hashirama died before 1st SWW, thus Tsunade was 2 years old when Tobirama died
    -Thus Hashirama died before her birth
     
         

  19. #44
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke2 View Post
    @OP, ur right about Obito, there's no problem with that.
    But you aren't correct about Tsunade/Hashirama as:
    -Konoha was founded 64-65 years prior to current events
    -Tobirama was Hokage already 5 years after it's founding, that's 60
    -Tsunade is 54... 54-60= -6
    -Hashirama died before 1st SWW, thus Tsunade was 2 years old when Tobirama died
    -Thus Hashirama died before her birth
    Sorry, but the age of Konoha, which is supposed to be the base of this timeline has never been stated by the manga and Hashirama has clearly been shown interacting with Tsunade which debunks it completely. :shrug:
     
         

  20. #45
    Senior Member Sasuke2's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    It's stated numerous times in official books by Kishi, refer to the other thread
     
         

  21. #46
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke2 View Post
    It's stated numerous times in official books by Kishi, refer to the other thread
    BOOMSHAKALAKA!

    Scratch my previous post, I've found the RAW Fanbook scans in Japanese.

    Page 18 and 53, eh?

    Page 18 is about Amegakure and has pics of Oboro, Mubi, and Kagari with the caption of There are many shinobi who take pride in their genjutsu.

    Pages 52-53-54 are about the Hokage lineage, there's a chart that states both Hashi and Tobirama trained Hiruzen, Hiruzen trained Jiraiya (no pic) and Jiraiya trained Minato and some info about the previous Hokage.

    初代 (Shodai) - About 60 years in the past, he was the one to lead countless shinobi with a collective will, the originator to lay the building stones of Konoha.

    二代目 (Nidaime) - Younger brother of the Shodai. After the death of his brother, the village was still not stable. Nidaime laid the foundations of the organisational structure and developed the village.

    Where is the 5 year part?
     
         

  22. #47
    Senior Member Sasuke2's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Refer to part dedicated to history of Konoha's Academy, first fanbook
     
         

  23. #48
    Senior Member Sarutobi Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonFire View Post
    Far as the timeline goes, yeah it's no big deal, though it bugs me . Kakashi was thirteen when he became jounin not nine lol(start of kakashi gaiden) and yes Obito was presume dead at the age of 13, but Obito is four years older then Kakashi, so Obito should be 17 during Kakashi gaiden not 13. Like I said before Obito should older then he appears and I said Obito was to similar in height with Kakashi not exactly the same. Obito should be a lot taller then Kakashi and same for Rin during Kakashi gaiden.
    Why do you say Kakashi was 13 and not some other age? if you dont mind me asking.
     
         

  24. #49
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    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke2 View Post
    Refer to part dedicated to history of Konoha's Academy, first fanbook
    WOW! Found something!

    It says that Nidaime, about 5 years after the founding of Konohagakure no Sato, due to military reasons, created a shinobi training facility at the base of the Hokage rock. It wasn't called the academy back then.
    It was called the Academy / 忍者学校 (Ninja Gakko) after Tsunade's birth.
    Several years after being officially named the Academy, they hold Teacher Selection Exams / 教師選抜試験 (Kyōshi Senbatsu Shiken).

    Anyways, this makes it clear that the Academy wasn't officially founded until quite a while later and Tobirama could have set up the shinobi training facility while Hashi was still alive. :shrug:
     
         
    Last edited by Kirin Rei; 02-11-2013 at 09:21 PM.

  25. #50
    Things are looking up kira hamer34's Avatar
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    infinite ammo!
     

    Re: Seriously, there's nothing wrong with the timeline. Read.

    never thought it was too confusing
    but i gess some people are very *****y and needed this
     
         

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