Multiple Misconception Thread : Susanoo, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu

[minator93]

In this thread I am going clear very common misconceptions that are induced by outdated Databook entry with the same Databook.

I will try to explain the following -

1. Why Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not required for the Susanoo ?
2. A double Mangekyo is the answer to aweken the Susanoo.
3. Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi [He has a different Mangekyo Genjutsu]
4. Madara doesn't have Amaterasu.


Part one Why Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not required for the Susanoo ?

Lets start with the Susanoo -

Caster - Uchiha Itachi

The databook entry says - "A godlike tech used only by those who have achieved Mastery beyond Mangekyo Sharingan"
It says two jutsus ie Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi

I am leaving the databook entries right here 1, 2

Now the point where I am going to focus is that this databook is old and had only one Susanoo user Itachi so this entry is Itachi Specific!!

Now people aren't satisfied with that so take a look below -

The method to Sage Mode is give here 1

Caster - Jiraya

Now the same Databook suggests that you need to summon two toads Ma and Pa and borrow their powers to get SM but we know that Naruto doesn't need to do it, he can do it on his own. Kabuto has a different Sage Mode and different method altoghether but that isn't even mentioned because the databook is as I said is outdated and this SM is Jiraya specific and the Susanoo is Itachi specific

So here we have it one doesn't need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi for Susanoo!!

Part two A double Mangekyo is the answer to aweken the Susanoo :

Take a look 1 2 Sasuke clearly says that one with double Mangekyo awakens the Susanoo. Madara also says that you need both eyes to get the full potential i.e. the Susanoo

So there it is you only need a double Mangekyo mastery to awaken the Susanoo!

Part Three Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi :

The tsukuyomi is a genjutsu that only Itachi and Madara posses. Don't get me wrong every Uchiha gets a MS genjutsu but it varies as Shisui had KA, Sasuke has "Genjutsu Sharingan"

Yes Sasuke has a genjutsu, its not tsukuyomi but its a genjutsu namely "Genjutsu Sharingan"

People always thougth that Sasuke has tsukuyomi but it differs from Itachi but its a completely different genjutsu altogether.

Never once in Manga Sasuke has uttered Tsukuyomi while casting a genjutsu as opposed to Itachi, Sasuke only says Genjutsu Sahringan

Here look at them both 1 ,2 in the 1st they both say Amaterasu because they have that MS tech in common but in second both use MS Genjutsu where Itachi says Tsukuyomi and Sasuke says "Genjutsu Sharingan"

Final Part Madara doesn't have Amaterasu :

Madara doesn't have Amaterasu

Now people speculated that he does because he has the susanoo but as said above Amaterasu isn't needed for Susanoo. Madara never showed Amaterasu but there were tons of places he could've used it, heck he still isn't using it, why? because he cant! The last page of 620 shows both going all out Hashirama has spammed WS but If Madara had Amaterasu then rest would've been so simple

Summary :

1. A double mangekyo is required in order to awaken the Susanoo.
2. Sasuke has a MS genjutsu but its not Tsukuyomi.
3. Madara doesn't have Amaterasu

PS : The wiki is written by normal people which can be edited as opposed to Manga and Databook whihch is written by the Mangaka Kishimoto Sensei

Hope you like this. So please give your thoughts

[Kyuubibomb]

in reading the first paragraph of your thread sasuke does have tsukiyomi just because it isn't on par with itachi's doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

[minator93]

in reading the first paragraph of your thread sasuke does have tsukiyomi just because it isn't on par with itachi's doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

Read the complete thread man. Sasuke's genjutsu may surpass even Itachi's tsukuyomi

[Staarkk]

J

in reading the first paragraph of your thread sasuke does have tsukiyomi just because it isn't on par with itachi's doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

This, stopped reading after this.

[-Carnage-]

i think sasuke does have tsukuyomi...but he cant control it like itachi can
like itachi has control over tsukuyomi...but sasuke has control over amaterasu
anyways..thats my 2 cents

[minator93]

J

This, stopped reading after this.

Good to know

i think sasuke does have tsukuyomi...but he cant control it like itachi can
like itachi has control over tsukuyomi...but sasuke has control over amaterasu
anyways..thats my 2 cents

Sasuke doesn't need the Tsukuyomi, his genjutsu may surpass Itachi's

[~KuroKaze~]

i agree with u man...

[MellowHype]

Nice thread, people just refuse to accept what's in front of them.

[Staarkk]

Why is Tsukyomi on the list of Jutsu for Sasuke and Madara alike.

[minator93]

i agree with u man...

Thanks

Nice thread, people just refuse to accept what's in front of them.

Thanks I thought this was pretty straight forward.

[T Bogard]

Nice thread but disagree with some. Sasuke does have tsukuyomi, just that he can't control space and time of the illusion like Danzo said. The fact he even compared both already shows Sasuke indeed has Tsukuyomi. He even said later that the brothers have the same eye powers. In an interview(i don't remember correctly which one), Kishi even said that Sasuke will have tsukuyomi and other Ms techniques(it was before his fight against Bee)

[KiriyuSenju]

Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi, he uses one eye to release Amaterasu, while the other he controls it as Enton. Susanoo does not require any "double mastery" of the mangekyou as whatever you refer that as. But it is stated, when you awakened both eyes then you awaken Susanoo. So when you awakened both the right and the left eye. Susanoo is also.

[minator93]

Why is Tsukyomi on the list of Jutsu for Sasuke and Madara alike.

As I said wiki can be wrong but the Mangaka isn't. You look up databook and all then you'll know Tsukuyomi is for Itachi only. Also Madara says he's going to cast the Infinite tuskuyomi means he has tsukuyomi but he doesn't have Amaterasu.

[Owarij]

Firstly, the databook never said the two toads ARE NEEDED for sage mode.. it just said that's how Jiraya does it..

Susanno listing Itachi as its user doesn't mean he's the only user...

Sasuke has tsukyomi.. why would Danzo compare a normal genjutsu to a MS? , he compared itachi's tsukyomi , to sasuke's..
Why would sasuke activate ms to cast a normal genjutsu? and use his non amaterasu eye?

All I see is complete and utter speculation... You say Madara hasn't shown amaterasu, thus he doesn't have it.. but he also hasn't shown tsukyomi.. but you claim he has it?

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean the ninja doesn't necessarily have it...

We haven't seen Madara's 2 mangekyou that caused him to get susanno..

We do know he made a plan about using tsukyomi on the moon. so it's very likely he has that jutsu...
But then you flat out state he doesn't have amaterasu?

[Itachi Solos]

The wiki is written by normal people, but most of it can be backed up by what Kishi wrote in the manga/databook. You just have to look at the reference.

[lol99]

agreed.

[minator93]

Nice thread but disagree with some. Sasuke does have tsukuyomi, just that he can't control space and time of the illusion like Danzo said. The fact he even compared both already shows Sasuke indeed has Tsukuyomi. He even said later that the brothers have the same eye powers. In an interview(i don't remember correctly which one), Kishi even said that Sasuke will have tsukuyomi and other Ms techniques(it was before his fight against Bee)

If I am not mistaken Danzo compared the abilities and not the Jutsus. Also Sasuke never says Tsukuyomi as oppossed to his other jutsus [he even names his inventions] the only time he said was as a taunt to Itachi.

Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi, he uses one eye to release Amaterasu, while the other he controls it as Enton. Susanoo does not require any "double mastery" of the mangekyou as whatever you refer that as. But it is stated, when you awakened both eyes then you awaken Susanoo. So when you awakened both the right and the left eye. Susanoo is also.

But he has a MS genjutsu.

Firstly, the databook never said the two toads ARE NEEDED for sage mode.. it just said that's how Jiraya does it..

Susanno listing Itachi as its user doesn't mean he's the only user...

Sasuke has tsukyomi.. why would Danzo compare a normal genjutsu to a MS? , he compared itachi's tsukyomi , to sasuke's..
Why would sasuke activate ms to cast a normal genjutsu? and use his non amaterasu eye?

All I see is complete and utter speculation... You say Madara hasn't shown amaterasu, thus he doesn't have it.. but he also hasn't shown tsukyomi.. but you claim he has it?

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean the ninja doesn't necessarily have it...

We haven't seen Madara's 2 mangekyou that caused him to get susanno..

We do know he made a plan about using tsukyomi on the moon. so it's very likely he has that jutsu...
But then you flat out state he doesn't have amaterasu?

Oh please. The databook was correct at the time of its release. It has listed the jutsus with the casters and clearly the Jutsus vary with casters as in Naruto, Jiraya and Kabuto case.

Madara has spoken of Infinite Tsukuyomi that's why I say he has it but there's no word on Amaterasu, not a single use in 70 chapters [he has used all other OP techs though]

[minator93]

The wiki is written by normal people, but most of it can be backed up by what Kishi wrote in the manga/databook. You just have to look at the reference.

Reference is okay but its not absolute canon

agreed.

Thanks bro

[Prince of Persia TTT]

Never in the manga has been shown sasuke using tsukuyomi
all he uses is sharingan genjutsu
anyone who disagrees are in denial

[KingHashirama]

Sir, you yourself are in the misconceptions.. The things you mentioned are the misconceptions.

OP: Manga is also proofread by Kishi's team. And also, drawn with help. Just like how Anime is based on the Manga.. and also has Kishi's help =]. Manga and Anime > Databooks if you wanna talk about Canon or what not.. why? Cause Databooks are out of time.. too old.. Anime and Manga are up to date.

So, something that is based from Databooks/Anime/Manga.. (Naru-wikia) is technically pretty much correct.. I mean they do support their points in the reference .

Never in the manga has been shown sasuke using tsukuyomi
all he uses is sharingan genjutsu
anyone who disagrees are in denial

Danzo disagrees.

[Itachi Rane]

sasuke used tsukuyomi against danzo...that was how he could beat danzo ultimately...danzo thought his izanagi still had time but actually that time already ran out...it was because sasuke used tsukuyomi...just a weaker version but more or less the mechanism was same......

[Owarij]

Madara has spoken of Infinite Tsukuyomi that's why I say he has it but there's no word on Amaterasu, not a single use in 70 chapters [he has used all other OP techs though]

Is Amaterasu relevant to his plan? We mostly see his Susanno because that's where his adroitness lies in(i.e perfect susanno)... just like we see Amaterasu a lot from Sasuke because that's where he took an affinity... Do you KNOW Madara's other MS ability? Has ANYTHING contradicted the databook statement so far?

Ive seen nothing thus far that does.... Manga wise or lore wise... all the users so far have either shown all the listed abilities or 2/3 .....For the 500th time, enton isn't a ms ability, it's control OF the MS ability , controlling the already existing amaterasu flames.. that's Sasuke's skill..

Then we have lore wise in which Susanno/tsukyomi/amaterasu are all brothers and Sisters... like a family...

Once again, what in the manga has contradicted the databook statement which states to use Susanno one eyes need to see through the Material (Tsukyomi) and Spiritual world (Amaterasu)

[minator93]

Never in the manga has been shown sasuke using tsukuyomi
all he uses is sharingan genjutsu
anyone who disagrees are in denial

Indeed, thanks man

Sir, you yourself are in the misconceptions.. The things you mentioned are the misconceptions.

Danzo disagrees.

Not really everything is clear with databook.

sasuke used tsukuyomi against danzo...that was how he could beat danzo ultimately...danzo thought his izanagi still had time but actually that time already ran out...it was because sasuke used tsukuyomi...just a weaker version but more or less the mechanism was same......

Danzo merely compared the genjutsu abilities, never once his said that Your Tsukuyomi is inferior to Itachi's, all he said was your genjutsu pales in comparison with Itachi's Tsukuyomi where Itachi manipulated s/t

[minator93]

[COLOR="#008000"]
Is Amaterasu relevant to his plan? We mostly see his Susanno because that's where his adroitness lies in(i.e perfect susanno)... just like we see Amaterasu a lot from Sasuke because that's where he took an affinity... Do you KNOW Madara's other MS ability? Has ANYTHING contradicted the databook statement so far?

Pure speculation about Madara. Madara doesn't have Amaterasu he never used it by the looks of it even Hashirama hasn't faced it. The manga statements and the Sage Mode activations are pretty spot on.

Ive seen nothing thus far that does.... Manga wise or lore wise... all the users so far have either shown all the listed abilities or 2/3 .....For the 500th time, enton isn't a ms ability, it's control OF the MS ability , controlling the already existing amaterasu flames.. that's Sasuke's skill..

Then we have lore wise in which Susanno/tsukyomi/amaterasu are all brothers and Sisters... like a family...

Once again, what in the manga has contradicted the databook statement which states to use Susanno one eyes need to see through the Material (Tsukyomi) and Spiritual world (Amaterasu)

Forget the lore the Manga and databook is what that counts

OP: Manga is also proofread by Kishi's team. And also, drawn with help. Just like how Anime is based on the Manga.. and also has Kishi's help =]. Manga and Anime > Databooks if you wanna talk about Canon or what not.. why? Cause Databooks are out of time.. too old.. Anime and Manga are up to date.

So, something that is based from Databooks/Anime/Manga.. (Naru-wikia) is technically pretty much correct.. I mean they do support their points in the reference .

You are making no sense. I've used what is absolute canon unlike you who's pulling stuff from his ass. If you really wanna talk then use Manga and databook

[T Bogard]

If I am not mistaken Danzo compared the abilities and not the Jutsus. Also Sasuke never says Tsukuyomi as oppossed to his other jutsus [he even names his inventions] the only time he said was as a taunt to Itachi.

True that we've never seen him say tsukuyomi after his genjutsus but it's not as if you always need to alert your opponent when you use a jutsu right? On this pic, when he used it against Bee, it really looks like Tsukuyomi

Also concerning Jiraya's Sage Mode, i'm not that sure he really needs Pa and Ma to enter the mode. I think he needs them to maintain the mode for unlimited minutes. On this pic for example, he was in Sage Mode without Pa or/and Ma on his shoulders