[Theory] You do NOT need Amateratsu and Tsukoyomi to use Susanoo

[BryanSk8]

A lot of people say that in the databooks, it states you need both amaterasu and tsukuyomi to use susanoo but i think this is incorrect. you don't need both, you just need the power of two MS sharingans. take a look.



He says 'along with' meaning that susanoo was the third techinque after the first two, he does not however say that amaterasu and tsukuyomi are needed.



Sasuke says that only those who can control the double mangekyou can use susanoo meaning that only those who have mastered their MS abilities can obtain susanoo.



When obito says a 'a sharingan that can activate even susanoo', i think he is referring to the fact that not everyone who had MS could master it.

Lets take a look at the people who we knew had MS.

Madara: Has used susanoo but has yet to use tsukuyomi or amaterasu

Izuna: If madara had it ima guess and say he had it too

Itachi: Was a genius even for an uchiha and able to master MS to use susanoo

Sasuke: Like it or not sasuke was also talented and was able to use susanoo

Obito: His potential is unknown as he only has 1 of his eyes and as stated by madara, both eyes are needed to use the full power of the sharingan. he may have been able to use susanoo if he had both. i believe that this is part of kishi plot to weaken obito and make madara stronger. as obito also had senju dna i believe he would also have been able to use PS. he would have had 2 teachniques in kamui and the S/T technique (which might also be called kamui but they are different powers)

Shisui: Now he is the confusing one because although he had both eyes, as far as we know he had the same technique in both eyes. it could be possible that he had another technique and did not master it like he did kotoamatsukami. it could be that he did master his other technique and could use susanoo but we never got to see it. only kishi knows lol.

I think the only reason why both itachi and sasuke use tsukuyomi and amaterasu has something to do with the fact that they are brothers or because itachi gave sasuke his power.

I am not saying that i am 100% correct but hopefully kishi will give us some answers, through madara.

Right now, the answer rests on whether or not madara can use tsukuyomi or amaterasu, until he does then I think my theory is correct.

Your thoughts?

[eimaj777]

i believe your right because nowhere in the series does it state that those techniques are need for susanoo

[Rike Senju]

This threads have been made a couple of times already. At least you present your words as a theory and not like if they were facts like that ispeakbs guy. We just gotta wait for more chapters of hashi vs. madara.

[Aquadextrious]

Madara OBVIOUSLY has Tsukiyomi, you tool. How would he use Mugen TSUKIYOMI without it?

[BryanSk8]

Madara OBVIOUSLY has Tsukiyomi, you tool. How would he use Mugen TSUKIYOMI without it?

He can only do that once he becomes the host of the Juubi. The Juubi has a Sharinnegan, it is the origin of the Sharingan and all it's jutsu! Madara can use them once he becomes the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

[kimeramaximus04]

Very interesting.

[BryanSk8]

Very interesting.

Thanks and thanks for rep

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

I agree with you man. Nowhere in the manga can you find a quote from anyone where it states that you NEED both tsukiyomi and amaterasu to use susanoo. It only says that you need 2 mangekyo sharingan. From what we've seen from mangekyo's, it varies from person to person which techniques they have. People only say that tsuki and amaterasu are required because it says that somewhere in one of the data books. I think it's kinda BS TBH but whatever.

[BryanSk8]

I agree with you man. Nowhere in the manga can you find a quote from anyone where it states that you NEED both tsukiyomi and amaterasu to use susanoo. It only says that you need 2 mangekyo sharingan. From what we've seen from mangekyo's, it varies from person to person which techniques they have. People only say that tsuki and amaterasu are required because it says that somewhere in one of the data books. I think it's kinda BS TBH but whatever.

YEah I believe Kishi is either trolling or he wants it to be in Databook for like RP and stuff

[ahhimane]

It is true. To activate Susano'o, its not necessary you must have amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. The conditions are that both the MS should awaken a new power in each of them. That is the condition to activate Susano'o.

In the series, we only encountered two Uchihas until "Mystery of Tobi" chapter.

One of the Uchiha (Itachi) had MS and he showed his MS powers which were Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Other than that he was a specialist in using Genjutsu. Those two powers i.e. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, led him to awaken Susano'o.

On the other side, the another Uchiha (Sasuke) got the MS after learning about his brother's painful past. Later, he forced his MS to release "amaterasu" while saving team Taka from Hachibi. Later on, he forced his other MS to absorb/extinguish/vanish/manipulate the amaterasu flames to save Karin.

Sasuke's third power, Suano'o, awakened paritally (the Skeleton Susano'o) while fighting Raikage, Gaara and other shinobis and also when he learned about Danzo's location at the Five Kage summit. And after Danzo started mocking Sasuke about Itachi being Konoha's traitor, Sasuke released the complete (not the perfect) Susano'o.

Since the whole story was revolving around these two Uchihas, most of the people considered Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi as the required power for activating Susano'o. But that is completely false theory.

I guess the power of the MS depends upon either the circumstances laid in front of the user or the specialty in which the user is.
For example, Genjutsu user, Itachi => Tsukuyomi (specialty)
The Teleporter having most powerful Genjutsu, Shisui => KotoAmatsukami (speciality)
Sasuke => Power of extinguishing Amaterasu (circumstances faced by him)

About Amaterasu, I think that power of MS must be a hierarchical power from the descendants passed down in a Uchiha family. Otherwise, sasuke and Itachi could have got different powers. The common power among those two is Amaterasu.
And if there exist any blood relationship between Madara and Sasuke, then one of Madara's MS powers is Amaterasu.

The other power, as I said, depends upon the circumstances face by the users or the specialty of the user.
And since we know that with the overuse of the MS, the Sharingan loses its light, Itachi's vision was flickering and was about to lose its light. Then Sasuke lost his vision because of over using the MS to its extent. Same goes for Madara.

Obito has MS but his vision is still intact. Also he doesn't have the other eye.

And from this, one thing is common, that to go blind, one must have both the eyes and have acquired the third power i.e. Susano'o.
So before going blind, Madara had the Susano'o.

So the question left is what is the second power of madara's MS?

Is it awakened through his specialty or any circumstances?

The answer is simple. Through "circumstances", because the two brothers, Izuna and Madara were powerful among the Uchihas. Madara always fought Hashirama. There is something still yet to reveal "What made Madara to fight Hashirama?" And it is related to Izuna. Madara loved his brother. Also it is yet to reveal "When and How Izuna died?" and "When Izuna gave his eyes to Madara?" And answer could be Izuna gave his eyes to Madara while battling against the Senjuus in order to protect the Uchihas. That made him to go back to the "other side".

But Madara is yet to show his other MS power. So we should wait to see it but its definitely not another Tsukuyomi.

[BryanSk8]

It is true. To activate Susano'o, its not necessary you must have amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. The conditions are that both the MS should awaken a new power in each of them. That is the condition to activate Susano'o.

In the series, we only encountered two Uchihas until "Mystery of Tobi" chapter.

One of the Uchiha (Itachi) had MS and he showed his MS powers which were Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Other than that he was a specialist in using Genjutsu. Those two powers i.e. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, led him to awaken Susano'o.

On the other side, the another Uchiha (Sasuke) got the MS after learning about his brother's painful past. Later, he forced his MS to release "amaterasu" while saving team Taka from Hachibi. Later on, he forced his other MS to absorb/extinguish/vanish/manipulate the amaterasu flames to save Karin.

Sasuke's third power, Suano'o, awakened paritally (the Skeleton Susano'o) while fighting Raikage, Gaara and other shinobis and also when he learned about Danzo's location at the Five Kage summit. And after Danzo started mocking Sasuke about Itachi being Konoha's traitor, Sasuke released the complete (not the perfect) Susano'o.

Since the whole story was revolving around these two Uchihas, most of the people considered Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi as the required power for activating Susano'o. But that is completely false theory.

I guess the power of the MS depends upon either the circumstances laid in front of the user or the specialty in which the user is.
For example, Genjutsu user, Itachi => Tsukuyomi (specialty)
The Teleporter having most powerful Genjutsu, Shisui => KotoAmatsukami (speciality)
Sasuke => Power of extinguishing Amaterasu (circumstances faced by him)

About Amaterasu, I think that power of MS must be a hierarchical power from the descendants passed down in a Uchiha family. Otherwise, sasuke and Itachi could have got different powers. The common power among those two is Amaterasu.
And if there exist any blood relationship between Madara and Sasuke, then one of Madara's MS powers is Amaterasu.

The other power, as I said, depends upon the circumstances face by the users or the specialty of the user.
And since we know that with the overuse of the MS, the Sharingan loses its light, Itachi's vision was flickering and was about to lose its light. Then Sasuke lost his vision because of over using the MS to its extent. Same goes for Madara.

Obito has MS but his vision is still intact. Also he doesn't have the other eye.

And from this, one thing is common, that to go blind, one must have both the eyes and have acquired the third power i.e. Susano'o.
So before going blind, Madara had the Susano'o.

So the question left is what is the second power of madara's MS?

Is it awakened through his specialty or any circumstances?

The answer is simple. Through "circumstances", because the two brothers, Izuna and Madara were powerful among the Uchihas. Madara always fought Hashirama. There is something still yet to reveal "What made Madara to fight Hashirama?" And it is related to Izuna. Madara loved his brother. Also it is yet to reveal "When and How Izuna died?" and "When Izuna gave his eyes to Madara?" And answer could be Izuna gave his eyes to Madara while battling against the Senjuus in order to protect the Uchihas. That made him to go back to the "other side".

But Madara is yet to show his other MS power. So we should wait to see it but its definitely not another Tsukuyomi.

Nice points! :D

[Founding Fire Shadow]

Itachi makes it pretty clear what the requirements for unlocking Susano-o are, both Itachi & Sasuke met those requirements & while Madara has not yet shown that he met them as well; he also has not given us any reason to think he has not, what we do not know is if every MS unlocks Tsukuyomi & Amaterasu, we have seen MS unlock exclusive jutsus like Kotoamatsukami & Kamui, if one eye has one ability, then Susano-o would be unavailable for those pairs of eyes, adding weight to Obito's claim of Susano-o's rarity, as of right now we will just have to wait & see, hopefully more insight into the history of the Clans may elaborate on the established requirements.

[Uchiha Hisoka]

It is true. To activate Susano'o, its not necessary you must have amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. The conditions are that both the MS should awaken a new power in each of them. That is the condition to activate Susano'o.

In the series, we only encountered two Uchihas until "Mystery of Tobi" chapter.

One of the Uchiha (Itachi) had MS and he showed his MS powers which were Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Other than that he was a specialist in using Genjutsu. Those two powers i.e. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, led him to awaken Susano'o.

On the other side, the another Uchiha (Sasuke) got the MS after learning about his brother's painful past. Later, he forced his MS to release "amaterasu" while saving team Taka from Hachibi. Later on, he forced his other MS to absorb/extinguish/vanish/manipulate the amaterasu flames to save Karin.

Sasuke's third power, Suano'o, awakened paritally (the Skeleton Susano'o) while fighting Raikage, Gaara and other shinobis and also when he learned about Danzo's location at the Five Kage summit. And after Danzo started mocking Sasuke about Itachi being Konoha's traitor, Sasuke released the complete (not the perfect) Susano'o.

Since the whole story was revolving around these two Uchihas, most of the people considered Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi as the required power for activating Susano'o. But that is completely false theory.

I guess the power of the MS depends upon either the circumstances laid in front of the user or the specialty in which the user is.
For example, Genjutsu user, Itachi => Tsukuyomi (specialty)
The Teleporter having most powerful Genjutsu, Shisui => KotoAmatsukami (sp
Sasuke => Power of extingu(circumstances faced by him)

About Amaterasu, I think that power of MS must be a hierarchical power from the descendants passed down in a Uchiha family. Otherwise, sasuke and Itachi could have got different powers. The common power among those two is Amaterasu.
And if there exist any blood relationship between Madara and Sasuke, then one of Madara's MS powers is Amaterasu.

The other power, as I said, depends upon the circumstances face by the users or the specialty of the user.
Andw that with the overuse of the MS, the Sharingan loses its light, Itachi's vision was flickering and was about to lose its light. Then Sasuke lost his vision because of over using the MS to its extent. Same goes for Madara.

Obito has MS but his vision is still intact. Also he doesn't have the other eye.

And from this, one thing is common, that to go blind, one must have both the eyes and have acquired the third power i.e. Susano'o.
So before going blind, Madara had the Susano'o.

So the question left is what is the second power of madara's MS?

Is it awakened through his specialty or any circumstances?

The answer is simple. Through "circumstances", because the two brothers, Izuna and Madara were powerful among the Uchihas. Madara always fought Hashirama. There is something still yet to reveal "What made Madara to fight Hashirama?" And it is related to Izuna. Madara loved his brother. Also it is yet to reveal "When and How Izuna died?" and "When Izuna gave his eyes to Madara?" And answer could be Izuna gave his eyes to Madara while battling against the Senjuus in orer tect the Uchihas. That made him to go bacto the "other side".

But Madara is yet to show his other MS power. So we should wait to see it but its definitely not another Tsukuyomi.

Wait, kakashi's sharingan eye is going blind though isn't it? And he doesn't have both eyes and he can't use susano'o.

[lion fang master]

Absolutely when U awaken the MS the person gains 1 special ninjutsu and 1 special genjutsu, when that is done the u awaken the susano power in the ninja

[Sasuke56]

There are 2 more threads arguing you do not need amaterasu and tsukuyomi for susanoo.

[Sasuke56]

Obito can't use Susanoo since one eye is Sharingan and the other is Rinnegan.

[BryanSk8]

obito can't use susanoo since one eye is sharingan and the other is rinnegan.

exactlyyy thank you!!!!