Tobirama>MS Madara?

[Derek1st]

For those of you who read the most recent chapter in the manga (obviously those who have not should leave)

Tobirama Kills Izuna

According to different accounts we have heard, Madara and Izuna were nearly EQUIVALENT in power

As we have seen with Sasuke and Itachi, people of like blood develop mangekyou sharingans with similar abilities (both sasuke and Itachi can both use tsukyomi, amaterasu, and susano'o).

Madara doesn't haven any special MS techniques (e.i Kamui, Koto Amatsukami). Given this, its probably a safe bet that izuna didn't either.

Any way, It appears that Tobirama defeated Izuna by a large margin, so even if madara is SLIGHTLY stronger than his brother, Tobirama still might edge out.

I am NOT saying that tobirama could defeat EMS madara, or madara with kyuubi, but i believe that Izuna DID have the ability to use tsukyomi, Susano'o and (maybe) amaterasu. Seeing that tobirama defeated Izuna, i believe it is safe to say that Tobirama CAN defeat MS Madara (I do not know if Perfect Susano'o is an EMS technique or just a MS technique, or whether Izuna could use it or not)

What do you guys think? i know its far fetched, but we don't know just how strong tobirama was (after all he WAS hashi's brother), he had a spacetime ninjutsu and we don't know how much weaker Madara is without izunas eyes.

Just tell me if you think my evidence is fairly rational or if not, why?

[Kages]

Nice A>B>C logic.

He does but that's not why he can beat him.

[Sukitte]

In my opinion it seems rational to me. We don't know enough about Tobirama though.
I think he very well could beat MS Madara. :D

[Sage of all Shinobi]

Tobirama has more beastly tech than MS Madara, so he has a chance. Now in terms of Ems and Madara with kyuubi, that will remain debatable for now.

[SasukeUchiha910]

madara rapes tobimara/alone hashimara can beat him

[AllseeingSharingan]

No he cant. Izuna n tobirama had there little fued from kids there sword clashing etc. Tobirama just got the best outta izuna. But hashirama needs to fight madara. Tobirama cannot beat ms madara.

[Sasuke56]

EMS Madara could use Perfect Susanoo to take Tobirama out.

[P3IN]

It's really surprising how everyone is so concerned about tobirama after he pwned izuna, tobirama threads r everywhere

[Arugon]

MS Madara...most likely
EMS Madara...no chance

[hixa kuogame]

i think they are equals but tobirama falls slightly short of EMS madara with kyuubi

No he cant. Izuna n tobirama had there little fued from kids there sword clashing etc. Tobirama just got the best outta izuna. But hashirama needs to fight madara. Tobirama cannot beat ms madara.

how so? he defeated his slightly weaker than him brother

[bladesofchaos360]

That would be understandable.

[vandell]

For those of you who read the most recent chapter in the manga (obviously those who have not should leave)

Tobirama Kills Izuna

According to different accounts we have heard, Madara and Izuna were nearly EQUIVALENT in power

As we have seen with Sasuke and Itachi, people of like blood develop mangekyou sharingans with similar abilities (both sasuke and Itachi can both use tsukyomi, amaterasu, and susano'o).

Madara doesn't haven any special MS techniques (e.i Kamui, Koto Amatsukami). Given this, its probably a safe bet that izuna didn't either.

Any way, It appears that Tobirama defeated Izuna by a large margin, so even if madara is SLIGHTLY stronger than his brother, Tobirama still might edge out.

I am NOT saying that tobirama could defeat EMS madara, or madara with kyuubi, but i believe that Izuna DID have the ability to use tsukyomi, Susano'o and (maybe) amaterasu. Seeing that tobirama defeated Izuna, i believe it is safe to say that Tobirama CAN defeat MS Madara (I do not know if Perfect Susano'o is an EMS technique or just a MS technique, or whether Izuna could use it or not)

What do you guys think? i know its far fetched, but we don't know just how strong tobirama was (after all he WAS hashi's brother), he had a spacetime ninjutsu and we don't know how much weaker Madara is without izunas eyes.

Just tell me if you think my evidence is fairly rational or if not, why?

tobirama was a beast so yeah i think he was stronger then ms madara, but ems is stoger then the second

[CDT23]

well Izuna and Madara were about equal before he got EMS. its is true that A>B>C isn't logical but clearly with out EMS he could be beaten by Tobirama or at least on par.

[Sage of all Shinobi]

All uchihas are basically weaker than the senjus until they implant 2 more sharingan eyes to get EMS, with the exception of the almighty Obito with his omnipotent kamui eyes.

[ssiddiq78]

Chances are 50/50 it can go both ways

[natzzz]

have to agree.

[God Itachi]

Seriously??? Is this a joke?

[Arugon]

Seriously??? Is this a joke?

No he is quite serious and most people including me agree with him, Ems Madara however would likely fodderize Tobirama

[Uchiha Mike]

Laugh; The surge of Tobirama fanboys and **** riding, hop off the bandwagon.

[Sage of all Shinobi]

All uchihas are basically weaker than the senjus until they implant 2 more sharingan eyes to get EMS, with the exception of the almighty Obito with his omnipotent kamui eyes.

[Sage of all Shinobi]

Laugh; The surge of Tobirama fanboys and **** riding, hop off the bandwagon.

Didn't that happen to Hashirama as well when he tried to stop Tobirama with his dirty looks? We are learning more and more about Tobirama and based on his feats and arsenal of techniques, he is definitely up there just below his brother Hashirama.

[Uchiha Mike]

Didn't that happen to Hashirama as well when he tried to stop Tobirama with his dirty looks? We are learning more and more about Tobirama and based on his feats and arsenal of techniques, he is definitely up there just below his brother Hashirama.

No, he is not even top ten material yet. Slow your roll, he is no where near his brother.
Your first sentence is completely irrelevant by the way.

[gorillagarrett]

No, he is not even top ten material yet. Slow your roll, he is no where near his brother.
Your first sentence is completely irrelevant by the way.

Tobirama is a Senju, and that means that he's capable of a lot more than you think. The guy is the fist ninja recorded to use time-space teleportation techniques and gates. He slashed Madara's borther in an instant. Sure Uchiha can use Susano in MS for few minutes, but then again, A Senju could very much have something to counter Susano. Something like absorbing the Chakra off Susano and maybe using pure yang chakra to create a surrounding monster of his own. We didn't see so far how Hashi beat Madara with EMS and the Kuubi. Remember, you're assuming Hashirama's techniques are unique to him, and it's not like the Uchiha who all share the same set of abilities and techniques. (Madara, Sasuke, Itachi..), and the could be wrong. Wood element and time-space could just be unlocks for Senju, just like MS and EMS.

[Sage of all Shinobi]

No, he is not even top ten material yet. Slow your roll, he is no where near his brother.
Your first sentence is completely irrelevant by the way.

My first sentence is relevant because prior to that chapter, everyone thought Hiruzen was the god of shinobi. After we got confirmation, everyone converted to being Hashirama maniacs.

[Derek1st]

Nice A>B>C logic.

He does but that's not why he can beat him.

Oh come on Kages, i expect a better response than that. In this scenario a>b> c logic DOES work because based on all evidence that we have seen (i understand that we ARE missing evidence, but i can only go off of what we have seen) izuna has the same movesets as madara and they are presumably at a similar scale. We already know that uchiha brothers typically have similar moves. Yes, sasuke favors amaterasu and itachi favors tsukyomi and madara favors susano'o, but all of these people seem to have the same ms techniques. Based on this evidence, Izuna=Madara (more or less) so B=B, and since A>B(Tobirama), A is also > B(MS Madara)