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  1. #21
    Senior Member KCMNaruto's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power[Please read first]

    Quote Originally Posted by tethian View Post
    Hashirama was stronger than Madara as a child and stronger than him as an adult.

    In the end Tobirama is arguably stronger than Madara aswell.
    Wow, are you really feel good now ? Yeah Hashirama is stronger than Madara but by small gap

    and If you talk about MS Madara, then maybe Tobirama would be equal to MS Madara

    but not in hell Tobirama could be equal to EMS Madara, don't even speaking that Tobirama > EMS Madara, someone has to have problems with his mind to say that.

    IMO: it is simply as that:

    Sage Hashirama>= EMS Madara + Kurama>>Base Hashirama>=EMS Madara>>MS Madara>=Tobirama>=MS Izuna
     
         

  2. #22
    OH LONG JOHNSON edo tensai wilmaso's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power[Please read first]

    Quote Originally Posted by tethian View Post
    Hashirama was stronger than Madara as a child and stronger than him as an adult.

    In the end Tobirama is arguably stronger than Madara aswell.
    good one lmao no tobirama is not.
     
         

  3. #23
    Senior Member Uchiha Samater's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power[Please read first]

    Interesting view

    although saying Madara's talent in his eyes are above sasuke's and itachi's i dont know

    particularly Sasuke, its set in the story for Sasuke to overtake his predecessors the same as Naruto will

    Sasuke is the ultimate genius from the Uchiha, remember Madara grew up in war Sasuke in peace, you can argue they both lost and felt pain, but Madara's was greater as he lived in a time, where there was no end to it,

    Madara simply progressed alot faster because of it, and Tobirama's revelations about the Uchiha becoming overpowered due to loss and pain makes perfect sense to what a overkill of a warrior madara became
     
         

  4. #24
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power[Please read first]

    Quote Originally Posted by KCMNaruto View Post
    Yeah I agree with you. Although maybe Madara's eyes had simply more potential in them than Itachi's eyes, Obito's eyes and Sasuke's eyes. We don't know it, it could be that mastering EMS is much more difficult and longer process than mastering MS, remember that we have only two Uchiha with EMS so far. Sasuke didn't even use it a lot, only once against Kabuto but Kishi wanted to show off Itachi then. Maybe Madara was blinded by hate so he couldn't use EMS well instead fought without focusing. I know it sounds now as exccuse I give Madara now, but we can't deny that possibility.

    Another prove would be why did Obito want Sasuke to stay in his base ?, I know he said: "you have to need for your eyes to recover" or something like that.

    Maybe merging process of EMS require some time to perfectly merge them into EMS design, reaching full power. Maybe Madara simply didn't know it back then and after accquiring EMS, he simply rushed to battle Hashirama, didn't give time for his eyes to perfectly merge and reach it full power, i think it would make sense.

    Even Sasuke said: "I feel Itachi power flowing into my eyes, I get stronger and stronger", or something like that, could it be that Izuna power was still flowing into Madara's eys and he become stronger and stronger, but when he fought Hashirama, this process slow down or stopped.

    Then Madara left Konoha to reach full power of EMS, then search for Kyuubi and attack Hashirama in vote battle.

    Sometimes I wonder if full potential of EMS is possibilty to use all MS jutsu can users have(Kamui, amaterasu, Tsyukomii, Kotoamatsukomi, Sussano), it would be badass.

    LOL as Madara wasn't as talented as Sasuke,
    IMO: Madara's talent=Itachi's talent>Sasuke's talent, but
    Madara's eyes>Sasuke'eyes>=Itachi's eyes
    I do, however, doubt that EMS could ever lead to more MS techniques, that would not make sense. To me it seems obvious that the only way to make EMS, is by merging 2 pair of eyes, with the same MS techs, which is why it usually has to be someone closely related to you, like your brother. The rare occurrence of 2 people with similar MS techs, but not being siblings or parent/son perhaps, could probably occur, but the odds are low.

    I think Sasuke has most talent of all in the series. I know Itachi was a lot smarter, his knowledge exceeds all as stated by Hiruzen, however, which is also why, he was able to develop such extremely powerful genjutsu. However, Sasuke is superior in developing ninjutsu. No shinobi in the series has proven such ability in creating/using ninjutsu in such a short time as Sasuke has. He may not be a master in using genjutsu, but he is a master at countering it. I think this is undeniable, and I am an Itachi fan, and actually I dislike Sasuke, but it's the way I see it in the manga. Just the way he learned chidori in such short time. Mastering 2 types of chakra at that age, well..
     
         

  5. #25
    aka caterpillar paratise's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power[Please read first]

    I agree too; the only reason some people like their favorite characters is their power levels, that's why thay freak out if they see one of them getting defeated; no matter whatever the situation and reasons are, they just ignore and look at the basic outcomes, saying defeated one=fodder is just illogical, the fights and power levels are not that simple.
     
         

  6. #26
    First Hokage Founding Fire Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power[Please read first]

    Quote Originally Posted by KCMNaruto View Post
    Hello,
    I saw many threades stating "Hashirama> Madara by huge marginess" or "Madara is fodder to Hashi" created after the latest chapter came out.

    before I will go to back up statement of my thread, I want to say that I am not Uchiha fan or troll. I accept statment that Hashirama in prime age(excluding sage mode) >=Madara in prime age and Senjuu>Uchiha.

    After short introduction I would like to go straight into my reasons, why "EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power".

    First fact is in latest chapter Madara has just accquired Eternal Mangenkyou sharingan, so couldn't use EMS's full power and surely he wasn't skilled with it just yet.

    prove:



    Above picture show us Madara who has just accquired EMS and fought Hashirama. Madara only use full skeleton form of Sussano, so he didn't has expierience with it, surely MS Madara could use Complete Sussano.



    and this picture above show Madara with mastered EMS against Hashirama.

    It simply show us that you have to train EMS to master it's powers, it will be same with Sasuke.


    The fact alone that Madara was able to fight for twenty fours hours still against Hashirama should be prove to it. Obviously you can say that Madara fought with killing itent where Hashirama was not, but it is assumption.

    Morever fight itself wasn't shown to us, readers. We can't know who has upper hand, how long and by how much or maybe once Madara had upper hand then Hashirama had and it could repeat, obviously it is assumption. If you look again into manga chapter 624, then as Madara is lying on ground near Hashirama, there is Tobirama and more Senjuu clan members. Tobirama has dirt on his clothes and he even shouted that it was chance for them to kill Madara, if he was sure that Hashirama, his older brother could deal with Madara easily then he wouldn't say that.

    In my opinion it could go like that:
    EMS Madara(chapter 624)=80% base Hashirama(excluding Sage mode if he had already)
    EMS Madara + Kyuubi(vote)=150% base Hashirama(excluding Sage mode),
    Sage mode Hashirama=200% Hashirama

    so maybe: EMS Madara(vote)=base Hashirama

    I think base Hashirama was slightly stronger than EMS Madara or even equal but he has too much amount of chakra so simply could outlast Madara whenever he fought him.

    prove for EMS Madara + Kyuubi>base Hashirama:



    , Hashi was going into sage mode so couldn't he defeat Madara + Kurama without it


    Conclusion: I think EMS Madara was slightly weaker than Hashirama in Chapter 624, probably Hashirama was slightly stronger then Madara or simply has much more bigger amount of chakra, so he outlast Madara simply.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would like to talk about Izuna and Tobirama too, I know that Tobirama is supperior to Izuna but question is how much...

    Remeber that Senjuu are famous from having the biggest amount of chakra, so maybe Izuna use his MS offscreen and Tobirama countered all his powers, but couldn't win too, until Izuna used almost all his chakra, so Tobirama could kill him, so he would simply outlast him, we don't know how long battle lasted, it maybe be assumption but it would make sense.

    IMO: Izuna=80% Tobirama, or maybe higher

    Again Tobirama use Space Time Ninjutsu, maybe he has just invented it so Izuna has no intel on it and understimated Tobirama but still it is no exccuse for experienced Uchiha warrior for loose. I think Tobirama could even kill MS Madara by suprise. EMS Madara could be out of his league although he would kill him if he distracted Madara and then used Space Time Ninjutsu, but Madara would be to smart to fal for it.


    IMO: Sage mode Hashirama>EMS Madara + Kyuubi>Base Hashirama>=EMS Madara>Tobirama>=Izuna

    I hope you get what i meant

    Sorry for my mistakes but english is not my first language ;/

    Do you agree or not ?, if you disagree then explain why
    I understand where you are coming from , but lets look at this in hindsight, Madara was Hashirama's rival & this suggests that they were at the least; of similar caliber, but the fact that Madara's greatest efforts were never able to defeat Hashirama who consistently dueled him without the intent of killing him implies a considerable gap in abilities, while Madara showed great power in dueling with Hashirama for 24 hours pushing his powers to the limits to defeat his rival, Hashirama still won while deliberately not trying to spare him, which again attests to the difference in their power, even after mastering the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Madara felt the need to acquire Kurama (which is a considerable force given that just half of its chakra has been enough to fuel Naruto in defeating several of the past Kages who themselves were immortal with unlimited chakra, take on 6 Bijuus at once, & is nigh single-handedly fueling the Alliance's efforts ) to aid him against his rival, even with this force on his side Madara was still defeated, logically if Hashirama is greater than Madara + the full powered Kurama, then the difference between Hashirama & Madara alone must be considerable.
     
         

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