Quote Originally Posted by KCMNaruto View Post
I saw many threades stating "Hashirama> Madara by huge marginess" or "Madara is fodder to Hashi" created after the latest chapter came out.

before I will go to back up statement of my thread, I want to say that I am not Uchiha fan or troll. I accept statment that Hashirama in prime age(excluding sage mode) >=Madara in prime age and Senjuu>Uchiha.

After short introduction I would like to go straight into my reasons, why "EMS Madara isn't far behind Hashirama in power".

First fact is in latest chapter Madara has just accquired Eternal Mangenkyou sharingan, so couldn't use EMS's full power and surely he wasn't skilled with it just yet.


Above picture show us Madara who has just accquired EMS and fought Hashirama. Madara only use full skeleton form of Sussano, so he didn't has expierience with it, surely MS Madara could use Complete Sussano.

and this picture above show Madara with mastered EMS against Hashirama.

It simply show us that you have to train EMS to master it's powers, it will be same with Sasuke.

The fact alone that Madara was able to fight for twenty fours hours still against Hashirama should be prove to it. Obviously you can say that Madara fought with killing itent where Hashirama was not, but it is assumption.

Morever fight itself wasn't shown to us, readers. We can't know who has upper hand, how long and by how much or maybe once Madara had upper hand then Hashirama had and it could repeat, obviously it is assumption. If you look again into manga chapter 624, then as Madara is lying on ground near Hashirama, there is Tobirama and more Senjuu clan members. Tobirama has dirt on his clothes and he even shouted that it was chance for them to kill Madara, if he was sure that Hashirama, his older brother could deal with Madara easily then he wouldn't say that.

In my opinion it could go like that:
EMS Madara(chapter 624)=80% base Hashirama(excluding Sage mode if he had already)
EMS Madara + Kyuubi(vote)=150% base Hashirama(excluding Sage mode),
Sage mode Hashirama=200% Hashirama

so maybe: EMS Madara(vote)=base Hashirama

I think base Hashirama was slightly stronger than EMS Madara or even equal but he has too much amount of chakra so simply could outlast Madara whenever he fought him.

prove for EMS Madara + Kyuubi>base Hashirama:

, Hashi was going into sage mode so couldn't he defeat Madara + Kurama without it

Conclusion: I think EMS Madara was slightly weaker than Hashirama in Chapter 624, probably Hashirama was slightly stronger then Madara or simply has much more bigger amount of chakra, so he outlast Madara simply.


I would like to talk about Izuna and Tobirama too, I know that Tobirama is supperior to Izuna but question is how much...

Remeber that Senjuu are famous from having the biggest amount of chakra, so maybe Izuna use his MS offscreen and Tobirama countered all his powers, but couldn't win too, until Izuna used almost all his chakra, so Tobirama could kill him, so he would simply outlast him, we don't know how long battle lasted, it maybe be assumption but it would make sense.

IMO: Izuna=80% Tobirama, or maybe higher

Again Tobirama use Space Time Ninjutsu, maybe he has just invented it so Izuna has no intel on it and understimated Tobirama but still it is no exccuse for experienced Uchiha warrior for loose. I think Tobirama could even kill MS Madara by suprise. EMS Madara could be out of his league although he would kill him if he distracted Madara and then used Space Time Ninjutsu, but Madara would be to smart to fal for it.

IMO: Sage mode Hashirama>EMS Madara + Kyuubi>Base Hashirama>=EMS Madara>Tobirama>=Izuna

I hope you get what i meant

Sorry for my mistakes but english is not my first language ;/

Do you agree or not ?, if you disagree then explain why
I understand where you are coming from , but lets look at this in hindsight, Madara was Hashirama's rival & this suggests that they were at the least; of similar caliber, but the fact that Madara's greatest efforts were never able to defeat Hashirama who consistently dueled him without the intent of killing him implies a considerable gap in abilities, while Madara showed great power in dueling with Hashirama for 24 hours pushing his powers to the limits to defeat his rival, Hashirama still won while deliberately not trying to spare him, which again attests to the difference in their power, even after mastering the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Madara felt the need to acquire Kurama (which is a considerable force given that just half of its chakra has been enough to fuel Naruto in defeating several of the past Kages who themselves were immortal with unlimited chakra, take on 6 Bijuus at once, & is nigh single-handedly fueling the Alliance's efforts ) to aid him against his rival, even with this force on his side Madara was still defeated, logically if Hashirama is greater than Madara + the full powered Kurama, then the difference between Hashirama & Madara alone must be considerable.