Hashirama's narration is skewed

[tejasomina]

I understand the current chapters are exciting in terms of revealing Konoha's history, however, I think that Hashirama is totally undermining the Uchihas

For example, Itachi, while explaining the origin of Izanami to Sasuke, says this

and this

From this story, we can reason that Izanagi is a very badass technique developed by the Uchiha, and it can be assumed that this happened during the clan wars, for obvious reasons
Also, Itachi talks as if the Uchiha were spamming Izanagi all the time and Izanami was created to prevent its misuse against kinfolks

Now, Hashirama is kind of summarizing what happened in the clan wars, and he says these things

If the Uchiha have a powerful technique like Izanagi that can even change fate, why would they get into a situation where their numbers are lessened and had to give up the fights? It doesn't make sense.

I think Hashirama is totally skewing the history, and I hope Sasuke will get pissed at undermining the Uchiha and become more badass, and awaken something that would make him match up to Naruto

[Animeshg14]

dude they cant go on losing there eyes fr just one battle...

[HashiramaDescendant]

Has Hashirama ever been known to lie like Itachi and Obito? No, he hasn't. He's telling the truth- the Senju were far more superior than the Uchiha under his leadership and those fancy doujutsu techs were most likely rendered useless.
Now stop crying about it and move on. Senju>Uchiha;Hashirama>Madara;Tobirama>Izuna.

[Omnipotent]

So, what you're saying is, Hashirama is a liar? Madara didn't tell us that.

[Kyo4]

Retcons! Retcons everywhere!

Seriously, the latest chapter should have been called : "Retcon" :D

[shelke]

Has Hashirama ever been known to lie like Itachi and Obito? No, he hasn't. He's telling the truth- the Senju were far more superior than the Uchiha under his leadership and those fancy doujutsu techs were most likely rendered useless.
Now stop crying about it and move on. Senju>Uchiha;Hashirama>Madara;Tobirama>Izuna.

Liar? Not really. Limited in perception? Yes. He has no possible way of ascertaining Uchiha Internal conflicts and their actual reasons for leaving their own clan. He pulled that one out of his ass, period. I agree with OP, the chapter is from a single perspective. Madara's treatise of his own Clan is more accurate, as he delineated the cause behind his Clan's betrayal and that was pure contention and constant vying for power. So many were getting killed in the process.

This is further backed by the fact that they betrayed Madara as well when he asked them to leave the village with him and revolt. The guy basically touched nothing of the sort and jumped onto a conclusion without any facts on his side. One-sided take on the whole story.

[Omnipotent]

Liar? Not really. Limited in perception? Yes. He has no possible way of ascertaining Uchiha Internal conflicts and their actual reasons for leaving their own clan. He pulled that one out of his ass, period. I agree with OP, the chapter is from a single perspective. Madara's treatise of his own Clan is more accurate, as he delineated the cause behind his Clan's betrayal and that was pure contention and constant vying for power. So many were getting killed in the process.

This is further backed by the fact that they betrayed Madara as well when he asked them to leave the village with him and revolt. The guy basically touched nothing of the sort and jumped onto a conclusion without any facts on his side. One-sided take on the whole story.

Well, did you really expect Hashirama to be an omniscient narrator?

[AlphaScythian]

From what i understand uchihas werent really well prepared for all out war at that time.

First off all those were times of many innovations, meaning a lot of jutsus were only developing etc. There was no shinobi training or education.

Uchihas were at square one basicly, they had no knowledge of MS or full sharingan capabilities. Madara was 1st in eras since ES to unlock MS, only he could provide that info and put it to the test. But he had no time for that, they were fighting day after day, although war is good for raising combat experience, its not good for creating new techniques. We didnt even saw him or izuna using susanoo or anything with MS. When he barely got EMS he charged at senju and was using V2 susanoo.

Madara only learned more about sharingan after he accepted truce, im guessing hashirama got his SM here as well.
Uchihas werent using, izanagis, izanamis, amaterasu not to mention MS techniques aside madaras incomplete susanoo, no1 brought bijus into the fight until madara pioneered the way (most likely after he read the tablet).
Those were times when they had to rediscover warfare and their own capabilities, now add that only few of them could use sharingan and u get the picture.

It was easier for senju, they always had stamina, while sharingan requires development which was hard to attain at everyday war.

But ultimately who knows, hashirama doesnt have to lie, he simply doesnt know it all.

[shelke]

Well, did you really expect Hashirama to be an omniscient narrator?

No. But this forum sure as hell is quite impervious to this idea. His narration has several loop-holes. People should just accept it.

[Immortal Itachi]

I understand the current chapters are exciting in terms of revealing Konoha's history, however, I think that Hashirama is totally undermining the Uchihas

For example, Itachi, while explaining the origin of Izanami to Sasuke, says this

and this

From this story, we can reason that Izanagi is a very badass technique developed by the Uchiha, and it can be assumed that this happened during the clan wars, for obvious reasons
Also, Itachi talks as if the Uchiha were spamming Izanagi all the time and Izanami was created to prevent its misuse against kinfolks

Now, Hashirama is kind of summarizing what happened in the clan wars, and he says these things

If the Uchiha have a powerful technique like Izanagi that can even change fate, why would they get into a situation where their numbers are lessened and had to give up the fights? It doesn't make sense.

I think Hashirama is totally skewing the history, and I hope Sasuke will get pissed at undermining the Uchiha and become more badass, and awaken something that would make him match up to Naruto

Uchiha fanboys everywhere...

It's clear the Uchiha pale in comparison to the Senju. Even if they did use Izanagi, the Senju clearly just killed them again.

[Immortal Itachi]

No. But this forum sure as hell is quite impervious to this idea. His narration has several loop-holes. People should just accept it.

Name 3 loopholes.

[Lightbringer]

I understand the current chapters are exciting in terms of revealing Konoha's history, however, I think that Hashirama is totally undermining the Uchihas

For example, Itachi, while explaining the origin of Izanami to Sasuke, says this

and this

From this story, we can reason that Izanagi is a very badass technique developed by the Uchiha, and it can be assumed that this happened during the clan wars, for obvious reasons
Also, Itachi talks as if the Uchiha were spamming Izanagi all the time and Izanami was created to prevent its misuse against kinfolks

Now, Hashirama is kind of summarizing what happened in the clan wars, and he says these things

If the Uchiha have a powerful technique like Izanagi that can even change fate, why would they get into a situation where their numbers are lessened and had to give up the fights? It doesn't make sense.

I think Hashirama is totally skewing the history, and I hope Sasuke will get pissed at undermining the Uchiha and become more badass, and awaken something that would make him match up to Naruto

I think the use of Izanagi/Izanami was mostly before Madara's time

[shelke]

Name 3 loopholes.

- Where did he get the idea of defection based on being outclassed?
- Has no way of determining Uchiha clan's internal conflicts.
- Has no way of ascertaining factors that led to defection.
- Has placed an 'outclassed' tag, without having any knowledge on the aforementioned factors.
- Doesn't take into account the constant tussles that could be the reasons behind the defection.
- The inferiority comment that led to defection lacks any solid evidence.
- His emotions analysis is groundless.

How many are these? Seven, I believe.

[Anorien16]

The OP overestimating the Uchiha and their Izanagi, which only works for a short while without Senju DNA and causes permanent loss of an eye . . . . . and seriously underestimating the Senju.

- Where did he get the idea of defection based on being outclassed?
- Has no way of determining Uchiha clan's internal conflicts.
- Has no way of ascertaining factors that led to defection.
- Has placed an 'outclassed' tag, without having any knowledge on the aforementioned factors.
- Doesn't take into account the constant tussles that could be the reasons behind the defection.
- The inferiority comment that led to defection lacks any solid evidence.
- His emotions analysis is groundless.

How many are these? Seven, I believe.

-They were continuously fighting.... so they should know who the slightly superiors warriors were....
- The defectors can talk u know?
- Above ^^^^
- The above ^^^^ solves the problem
- Again the defector can talk about that to Hashirama.
- Above ^^^^^
- Perhaps or perhaps not...

[Champ]

You right. I forgot Itachi said that, I guess I guess kishi lied cause we saw no use of Izanagi.

[AlphaScythian]

The OP overestimating the Uchiha and their Izanagi, which only works for a short while without Senju DNA and causes permanent loss of an eye . . . . . and seriously underestimating the Senju.

..

Short while? obito held it for like 10 min

[Anorien16]

Short while? obito held it for like 10 min

Did u forget Tobi has nearly and half body full of Senju DNA??? Danzo had less and thus his Izanagi lasted 1 min each .. .. .. Also His MS works for about 5 minutes so 10-5=5min left.... so at most 5 minutes unless he used Izanagi to appear outside the blasting region, which he probably did as he was holding a rod out of nowhere.

[AlphaScythian]

Did u forget Tobi has nearly and half body full of Senju DNA??? Danzo had less and thus his Izanagi lasted 1 min each .. .. .. Also His MS works for about 5 minutes so 10-5=5min left.... so at most 5 minutes unless he used Izanagi to appear outside the blasting region, which he probably did as he was holding a rod out of nowhere.

And why would he waste his MS when he had izanagi, he activated it short after he realized whole picture, and the eye only sealed away when he stabbed konan.
Now some little math.
uchiha+senju+1 eye= 10min
nonuchiha+senju+1eye= 1min
So uchiha power clearly accounts for 90% of duration, and obito having more of senju body doesnt mean much as madara had even less then that.

[Anorien16]

And why would he waste his MS when he had izanagi, he activated it short after he realized whole picture, and the eye only sealed away when he stabbed konan.
Now some little math.
uchiha+senju+1 eye= 10min
nonuchiha+senju+1eye= 1min
So uchiha power clearly accounts for 90% of duration, and obito having more of senju body doesnt mean much as madara had even less then that.

Izanagi takes away one eye and thus is more costly.... so why would Tobi waste Izanagi when he has MS for 5 min?

And your proof that Tobi would be dumb enough to be stay in the blasting region when he can move away from it using Izanagi? Also where did that Rod come from?

Also ur disregarding the amount of of Senju Cells each had ..... Tobi had half a body while Danzo had a lot less: Now considering Danzo was non Uchiha, Senju DNA would bring him up to level of a regular Uchiha... so perhaps 1 min.As for when is Madara shown to use Izanagi in a regular body?

Anyway.... Danzo too had a about 10 min of Izanagi combined ... It didnt help him in the end.

[KingHashirama]

Anyone who doubts what he says is a fanboy, whose mad. Kishimoto specifically brought them back so sasuke can get the history.. and now Hashirama is giving the canon history. Also, Obito already put Senju over the Uchiha in his flashbacks.

Still, Hashirama >>> Itachi and Obito.. as far credibility goes. But since most of you who are doubting Hashirama are fanboys of EVIL characters.. you wouldn't understand the difference between a Good guy and a Bad guy.

[Immortal Itachi]

- Where did he get the idea of defection based on being outclassed?
- Has no way of determining Uchiha clan's internal conflicts.
- Has no way of ascertaining factors that led to defection.
- Has placed an 'outclassed' tag, without having any knowledge on the aforementioned factors.
- Doesn't take into account the constant tussles that could be the reasons behind the defection.
- The inferiority comment that led to defection lacks any solid evidence.
- His emotions analysis is groundless.

How many are these? Seven, I believe.

- The Senju were destroying the Uchiha to the point they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- When did he suggest he knew the Uchiha clan's inner conflicts? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Yes he does. The Senju were wiping the floor with the Uchiha, which is why they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What aforementioned factors? What are you talking about? It's obvious the Uchihas were outclassed because they were being wrecked. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What constant tussles? What? This is the same as saying they defected because they were tired of getting killed by the Senju. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Lacks evidence? LOL, how's this for evidence: The Senju were destroying the Uchiha. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Emotions analysis? Are you trying to sound smart or something, what the f*ck is this supposed to mean? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*

[AlphaScythian]

Izanagi takes away one eye and thus is more costly.... so why would Tobi waste Izanagi when he has MS for 5 min?

He had that eye specifically for izanagi. Wasting MS is illogical, better save it for more fighting thus he would take full effect of izanagi.

And your proof that Tobi would be dumb enough to be stay in the blasting region when he can move away from it using Izanagi? Also where did that Rod come from?

Nowhere did it say u can move much around with izanagi, but technically he could, but he didnt. Black rod came from zetsu body, which had madara's will - black rod.

Also ur disregarding the amount of of Senju Cells each had ..... Tobi had half a body while Danzo had a lot less: Now considering Danzo was non Uchiha, Senju DNA would bring him up to level of a regular Uchiha... so perhaps 1 min.As for when is Madara shown to use Izanagi in a regular body?

Madara wasnt show to use izanagi but madara can use makuton better n bigger. Further more how much DNA kabuto used to get all those KKG didnt it grant him ability no matter how many blood drops he had? Its just complete DNA puzzle.

Anyway.... Danzo too had a about 10 min of Izanagi combined ... It didnt help him in the end.

And its not good argument

[AlphaScythian]

- The Senju were destroying the Uchiha to the point they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- When did he suggest he knew the Uchiha clan's inner conflicts? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Yes he does. The Senju were wiping the floor with the Uchiha, which is why they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What aforementioned factors? What are you talking about? It's obvious the Uchihas were outclassed because they were being wrecked. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What constant tussles? What? This is the same as saying they defected because they were tired of getting killed by the Senju. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Lacks evidence? LOL, how's this for evidence: The Senju were destroying the Uchiha. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Emotions analysis? Are you trying to sound smart or something, what the f*ck is this supposed to mean? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*

So uchihas battled it out for like 10 yeas vs senju and hashirama labels them outclassed?
Hashirama proposed peace madara turned it down. Uchihas grew tired of war and started to turn back on madara, some overly sensitive defected.
Izuna gave him his eyes in last attempt to change the tide of war, outnumbered w/o support madara failed.
Madara isnt liar either, in fact he's brutally honest. So far what we learned fits perfectly to what madara/obito said.
And i think madara would know of his clan better then hashirama, no point in even dabating on this

So dude has the point, hashirama claims here are hugely misleading at very least, not that he lied intentionally.

[Immortal Itachi]

So uchihas battled it out for like 10 yeas vs senju and hashirama labels them outclassed?
Hashirama proposed peace madara turned it down. Uchihas grew tired of war and started to turn back on madara, some overly sensitive defected.
Izuna gave him his eyes in last attempt to change the tide of war, outnumbered w/o support madara failed.
Madara isnt liar either, in fact he's brutally honest. So far what we learned fits perfectly to what madara/obito said.
And i think madara would know of his clan better then hashirama, no point in even dabating on this

So dude has the point, hashirama claims here are hugely misleading at very least, not that he lied intentionally.

Hashirama, and even Obito, have said before that the Senju > The Uchiha.

Sorry, but that's manga fact. Hashirama is telling the truth, the Uchiha defected because they were tired of getting their sh*t stomped.

[Lightbringer]

Anyone who doubts what he says is a fanboy, whose mad. Kishimoto specifically brought them back so sasuke can get the history.. and now Hashirama is giving the canon history. Also, Obito already put Senju over the Uchiha in his flashbacks.

Still, Hashirama >>> Itachi and Obito.. as far credibility goes. But since most of you who are doubting Hashirama are fanboys of EVIL characters.. you wouldn't understand the difference between a Good guy and a Bad guy.

and you do?

good and evil is subjective....Hashirama still killed people and chose to be a ninja, which still would define him as evil to some extent

why couldn't he live a life of a priest and share teachings of wisdom like the SO6P? Why couldn't he transform his clan into a monastery of monks(which there were in the world)?