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  1. #1
    Gangster Lean Instructor p0002q's Avatar
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    10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    I will start with the wikia information (inserts I find useful for the discussion, probly known by most) :

    A: The Ten-Tails is considered to be both creator of the world and the herald to its end if ever be revived.

    B: Centuries before the founding of the hidden villages, the Sage of the Six Paths saved the world from the Ten-Tails.

    C: Sage sealed 10 tails in himself. When he was about to die, he created the 9 tailed beasts so the Ten Tails wouldn't be revived and destroy the world.

    D: The 9 tailed beasts were created by dividing the 10 tails chakra from its body and splitting the chakra into 9 entities.

    E: Kurama describes the 10 tails: Lacks a consciousness. No feelings or ideals. Cannot be detected using negative emotions, malevolence or even chakra.

    F: Naruto can detect the power while in Sage mode.

    G: As the original form of all nine tailed beasts, the Ten-Tails was said to possess massive and overwhelmingly foul chakra that is potent enough to bring total despair and destruction to the world


    Here are manga panels describing the ten tails:








    My conclusions and questions :


    The ten tails:

    contained a massive amount of chakra (more "evil" than Kurama)

    also consisted of massive amounts of nature energy

    could not be detected (except sage mode detecting nature energy)

    had NO feelings or ideals, but still managed to create the world, chakra and more

    Became some sort of demon feared by people.

    Sage saved the day, rest is history...



    How did this collection of energy with no feelings or ideals create everything?

    Why did it become a monster?

    Why can't the chakra be detected (like with each of the tailed beasts)? In one of the panels, the evil chakra IS detected... but then disappears. Perhaps it happens once the beast is fully revived? all that chakra sort of converts to nature energy or something?

    Basically it seems like a really stupid story (the ten tails background from wikia and manga) and hoping someone knows something.... I also can't search much for info due to work filters etc.

    Was the ten tails just a huge overpowered derp that managed to create everything (at least chakra and countries as described by Kurama), but was so derp (lack of feelings\ideals\etc.) it randomly started attacking the stuff it created... then the sage did what he had to do to stop the rampaging derp after learning about chakra?
     
         

  2. #2
    Member Father of Naruto's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Good thread i am also confused on the third point if he don't have ideals how he can manage to create everything
     
         

  3. #3
    Member Somnath Ghosh's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    too much questions. i don't think that will be answered.
     
         

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    Senior Member roncato's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Just continue watching/reading anime, manga and you'll see it.
     
         

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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.



    this plays on bhop_vanilla if you finish it
     
         

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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Great threat i also same questions in my mind
     
         

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    Senior Member Mellanoma's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by p0002q View Post
    I will start with the wikia information (inserts I find useful for the discussion, probly known by most) :

    A: The Ten-Tails is considered to be both creator of the world and the herald to its end if ever be revived.

    B: Centuries before the founding of the hidden villages, the Sage of the Six Paths saved the world from the Ten-Tails.

    C: Sage sealed 10 tails in himself. When he was about to die, he created the 9 tailed beasts so the Ten Tails wouldn't be revived and destroy the world.

    D: The 9 tailed beasts were created by dividing the 10 tails chakra from its body and splitting the chakra into 9 entities.

    E: Kurama describes the 10 tails: Lacks a consciousness. No feelings or ideals. Cannot be detected using negative emotions, malevolence or even chakra.

    F: Naruto can detect the power while in Sage mode.

    G: As the original form of all nine tailed beasts, the Ten-Tails was said to possess massive and overwhelmingly foul chakra that is potent enough to bring total despair and destruction to the world


    Here are manga panels describing the ten tails:








    My conclusions and questions :


    The ten tails:

    contained a massive amount of chakra (more "evil" than Kurama)

    also consisted of massive amounts of nature energy

    could not be detected (except sage mode detecting nature energy)

    had NO feelings or ideals, but still managed to create the world, chakra and more

    Became some sort of demon feared by people.

    Sage saved the day, rest is history...



    How did this collection of energy with no feelings or ideals create everything?

    Why did it become a monster?

    Why can't the chakra be detected (like with each of the tailed beasts)? In one of the panels, the evil chakra IS detected... but then disappears. Perhaps it happens once the beast is fully revived? all that chakra sort of converts to nature energy or something?

    Basically it seems like a really stupid story (the ten tails background from wikia and manga) and hoping someone knows something.... I also can't search much for info due to work filters etc.

    Was the ten tails just a huge overpowered derp that managed to create everything (at least chakra and countries as described by Kurama), but was so derp (lack of feelings\ideals\etc.) it randomly started attacking the stuff it created... then the sage did what he had to do to stop the rampaging derp after learning about chakra?
    Well from what we understand. Its a massive entity of Nature Energ and when the six paths split it up I believe he divided the Ten tails by using creation of all things which could in theory turn a beast of complete Nature Energy into 9 different Chakra Beast cause afterall Chakra is a lot easier to control than nature Energy.

    I believe chakra is the spiritual aspect of Nature energy which would explain a lot

    As far as the ten tails creating things. Lets not forget that the ten tails has the abilities of all other tailed beast and one key ability that he has is the fact that the ten tail's life force and nature energy will make things responde to him much like Kurama chakra responding to mokuton: http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/505/8

    So with that being said I would have to say the Ten Tails possibly created the world just by its energy alone and not purposely.

    THEN AGAIN IT IS AN ANIME LOL
     
         

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    Senior Member Henchman24's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    The Ten Tails to me is more like a programmed machine. It's only funtion is creation through destruction. I also beleive that Shinobi, chakra and ninjutsu would not exist if it weren't for the Ten Tails. It's pressence in the early times alone is what allowed living things to be born with chakra. Purely speculation.
     
         

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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    OP Read what I posted earlier in your Thread!
     
         

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    Gangster Lean Instructor p0002q's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    As usual work PC is being dumb as can be and I can't quote :\


    @ Somnath: I agree- but sometimes people have the mythology background and can shed light on things.


    @ Mellanoma: Interesting take on the nature energy and it would seem the 10tails was some sort of blind creator\destroyer


    All else, thanks :P

    I do hope they reveal more as they are on flashback mania
     
         

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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henchman24 View Post
    The Ten Tails to me is more like a programmed machine. It's only funtion is creation through destruction. I also beleive that Shinobi, chakra and ninjutsu would not exist if it weren't for the Ten Tails. It's pressence in the early times alone is what allowed living things to be born with chakra. Purely speculation.
    Nope, the so6p fought against the juubi. You think that was without chakra?
     
         

  12. #12
    The ReeseKage of Brooklyn ReeseKage's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    It is the progenitor of chakra, meaning the origin and embodiment of chakra itself. As far as it creating things, it seems that way because of its how the planet reacts from its natural chakra and life force energy. As far as it destroying things, I believe that since it is such a huge entity without any morals, it has to sustain itself somehow. I believe that it drinks oceans and maybe eats mountains to sustain itself. Of course this would seem like destruction to a human. Much like dinosaurs. We would consider them horrendous monsters for being that big And eating trees And other dinosaurs but in all reality, they're just doing what they need to do to survive. I too had the same questions as u but I came to this conclusion after piecing things together.
     
         

  13. #13
    Gangster Lean Instructor p0002q's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReeseKage View Post
    It is the progenitor of chakra, meaning the origin and embodiment of chakra itself. As far as it creating things, it seems that way because of its how the planet reacts from its natural chakra and life force energy. As far as it destroying things, I believe that since it is such a huge entity without any morals, it has to sustain itself somehow. I believe that it drinks oceans and maybe eats mountains to sustain itself. Of course this would seem like destruction to a human. Much like dinosaurs. We would consider them horrendous monsters for being that big And eating trees And other dinosaurs but in all reality, they're just doing what they need to do to survive. I too had the same questions as u but I came to this conclusion after piecing things together.
    This is a great answer to why it would seem like a demon, destroyer!

    I still think the story of the 10 tails is overall quite weird and lame :\ but that's just my opinion
     
         

  14. #14
    Sennin 6PathsofKami's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Probably created thing by accident and not on purpose.
     
         

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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by p0002q View Post
    I will start with the wikia information (inserts I find useful for the discussion, probly known by most) :

    A: The Ten-Tails is considered to be both creator of the world and the herald to its end if ever be revived.

    B: Centuries before the founding of the hidden villages, the Sage of the Six Paths saved the world from the Ten-Tails.

    C: Sage sealed 10 tails in himself. When he was about to die, he created the 9 tailed beasts so the Ten Tails wouldn't be revived and destroy the world.

    D: The 9 tailed beasts were created by dividing the 10 tails chakra from its body and splitting the chakra into 9 entities.

    E: Kurama describes the 10 tails: Lacks a consciousness. No feelings or ideals. Cannot be detected using negative emotions, malevolence or even chakra.

    F: Naruto can detect the power while in Sage mode.

    G: As the original form of all nine tailed beasts, the Ten-Tails was said to possess massive and overwhelmingly foul chakra that is potent enough to bring total despair and destruction to the world


    Here are manga panels describing the ten tails:








    My conclusions and questions :


    The ten tails:

    contained a massive amount of chakra (more "evil" than Kurama)

    also consisted of massive amounts of nature energy

    could not be detected (except sage mode detecting nature energy)

    had NO feelings or ideals, but still managed to create the world, chakra and more

    Became some sort of demon feared by people.

    Sage saved the day, rest is history...



    How did this collection of energy with no feelings or ideals create everything?

    Why did it become a monster?

    Why can't the chakra be detected (like with each of the tailed beasts)? In one of the panels, the evil chakra IS detected... but then disappears. Perhaps it happens once the beast is fully revived? all that chakra sort of converts to nature energy or something?

    Basically it seems like a really stupid story (the ten tails background from wikia and manga) and hoping someone knows something.... I also can't search much for info due to work filters etc.

    Was the ten tails just a huge overpowered derp that managed to create everything (at least chakra and countries as described by Kurama), but was so derp (lack of feelings\ideals\etc.) it randomly started attacking the stuff it created... then the sage did what he had to do to stop the rampaging derp after learning about chakra?
    The only possible explination with logic....

    A: The Ten-Tails is considered to be both creator of the world and the herald to its end if ever be revived.

    The ten-tails was good so he was the creator.... but after a period of time he was corrupted by someone or something... the sage had to seal it and split it so that the possesion or the evil corrupted will go away....

    E: Kurama describes the 10 tails: Lacks a consciousness. No feelings or ideals. Cannot be detected using negative emotions, malevolence or even chakra.

    I can't belive that... so before the ten tails was corrupted i think he had a consciousness , without a consciousness he could not be a creator of everything.... you can't create everything by accident

    G: As the original form of all nine tailed beasts, the Ten-Tails was said to possess massive and overwhelmingly foul chakra that is potent enough to bring total despair and destruction to the world

    Its said it has nature energy how is that chakra foul if can't be sensed by Naruto as evil ? Well same ideea it was corrupted.... and that is how his chakra was foul.....

    I think the Juubi we have now battling its one without corruption just nature energy but still his consciousness is long gone and its being controlled by madara and obito after they lost control i expect juubi to become just feral.... , the consciousness was lost forever when he was corrupted 1000 or more years ago

    PS. I belive in this ideea cuz we already now that uchiha becomed evil after they get the sharingan (Juubi has a big ass sharingan) and something is happening in their brain making them evil
     
         
    Last edited by alexu9696; 03-22-2013 at 02:06 PM.

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    Gangster Lean Instructor p0002q's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Thanks for replies, another thing I realized:

    Ten tails basically had no personallity

    Kurama does

    Perhaps part of the sage creating the 9 tailed beasts was giving them personalities as well as him telling his version of the story of the ten tails.

    Or once they had personalities, they were able to understand a bit more of their past.



    @ Alexu,

    I definitely see that as an option with the good to corruption.

    The lack of conciouss and what not I was never able to find in the manga but it seems impossible (to me) that he would be able to create stuff without any sort of mind.

    The weird part was, they could detect the evil chakra then it disappeared. I think the ten tails went through a transformation (or changing forms) in that moment.


    It made me think earlier that the original ten tails was nothing but nature energy & created chakra from nature energy giving it to people.

    Like the dude said earlier, the ten tails was so massive, that anything it did could be seen as a threat against mankind. Perphaps people tried to attack it before the sage sealed it and the ten tails turned to hate people (still weird with no mind thing).


    I'm still bouncing all over the place with ideas lol - I really want some more clarity on it!
     
         

  17. #17
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    I think it is because the Juubi (the final form at least) has consciousness, it's been a long rumor that the Juubi tried to punish man for their sins
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by p0002q View Post
    Thanks for replies, another thing I realized:

    Ten tails basically had no personallity

    Kurama does

    Perhaps part of the sage creating the 9 tailed beasts was giving them personalities as well as him telling his version of the story of the ten tails.

    Or once they had personalities, they were able to understand a bit more of their past.



    @ Alexu,

    I definitely see that as an option with the good to corruption.

    The lack of conciouss and what not I was never able to find in the manga but it seems impossible (to me) that he would be able to create stuff without any sort of mind.

    The weird part was, they could detect the evil chakra then it disappeared. I think the ten tails went through a transformation (or changing forms) in that moment.


    It made me think earlier that the original ten tails was nothing but nature energy & created chakra from nature energy giving it to people.

    Like the dude said earlier, the ten tails was so massive, that anything it did could be seen as a threat against mankind. Perphaps people tried to attack it before the sage sealed it and the ten tails turned to hate people (still weird with no mind thing).


    I'm still bouncing all over the place with ideas lol - I really want some more clarity on it!
    the bijuu's that was forming the juubi inside the gedo mazo where still evil like kurama was.... after the transformation only one bijuu remained the juubi that now has no evil.... its a feral bijuu...

    I belive somehow the ten tails will have a bad story like all the bijuu's , he was good helping people etc...then he got evil , the sage had to seal him....

    Or like the bijuu story first they where good then they got bad cuz people treat them like that....maybe the juubi was treated by humans like a monster and then somehow someone tricked him and made him all evil

    The story of a cyclop.... i read to much stuff.... but the juubi is a cyclop so its very possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Derp Obito View Post
    I think it is because the Juubi (the final form at least) has consciousness, it's been a long rumor that the Juubi tried to punish man for their sins
    I hope so but i doubt that somehow..... if he had a consciousness when in full form , why battle the sage of six paths ? I mean what good could he get ?
     
         
    Last edited by alexu9696; 03-22-2013 at 02:25 PM.

  19. #19
    Member ShadowCloneJutsu's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Well if you think about the Juubi as a God, it kind of makes sense. I don't think that the Juubi was neccessarily 'evil', but hey a God can do whatever it wants. The juubi was the creator of the world and the humans in this universe came second. If you look into certain mythologies, specifically Greek, the Gods are sort of *******s. They are very arrogant and see humans as 'imperfect' and weak. For example, if you read the story of Prometheus, it's the story of a Titan who is credited for the creation of man. Zeus, king of the olympians took fire away from the humans to punish them, but Prometheus stole it and restored it to the humans so they could survive. Zeus was angered by this and sentenced Prometheus to live on Earth and was punished to die every day of his immortal life(eternal suffering). This kind of resembles the Juubi + SO6P and shows that just because you are a God, doesn't mean you gotta be nice.

    Anyway the Juubi probably got pissed off after seeing the world he created becoming consumed by hatred and corruption (or something) and grew tired and bitter of it all. The SO6P probably fought it to prove that the humans weren't so weak and consumed in hatred as it though, similar to the way Hashi V Madara, Naruto V Sasuke .

    In response to the fact of the Juubi having no concious, I think it's clear that it's being manipulated. If something is manipulated, you can't really tell if it has a conscience or not. Also the current Juubi is incomplete which may be the reason why it is lacking feeling and conciousness.

    Tell me what ya think

    Thank you!
    -ShadowCloneJutsu
     
         

  20. #20
    Gangster Lean Instructor p0002q's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCloneJutsu View Post
    Well if you think about the Juubi as a God, it kind of makes sense. I don't think that the Juubi was neccessarily 'evil', but hey a God can do whatever it wants. The juubi was the creator of the world and the humans in this universe came second. If you look into certain mythologies, specifically Greek, the Gods are sort of *******s. They are very arrogant and see humans as 'imperfect' and weak. For example, if you read the story of Prometheus, it's the story of a Titan who is credited for the creation of man. Zeus, king of the olympians took fire away from the humans to punish them, but Prometheus stole it and restored it to the humans so they could survive. Zeus was angered by this and sentenced Prometheus to live on Earth and was punished to die every day of his immortal life(eternal suffering). This kind of resembles the Juubi + SO6P and shows that just because you are a God, doesn't mean you gotta be nice.

    Anyway the Juubi probably got pissed off after seeing the world he created becoming consumed by hatred and corruption (or something) and grew tired and bitter of it all. The SO6P probably fought it to prove that the humans weren't so weak and consumed in hatred as it though, similar to the way Hashi V Madara, Naruto V Sasuke .

    In response to the fact of the Juubi having no concious, I think it's clear that it's being manipulated. If something is manipulated, you can't really tell if it has a conscience or not. Also the current Juubi is incomplete which may be the reason why it is lacking feeling and conciousness.

    Tell me what ya think

    Thank you!
    -ShadowCloneJutsu

    1 - excellent post

    2 - thanks for the mythology\book reference! It reminds me of the God of the Bible and the flood of Noah.

    3 - I hated the lack of concious from wikia. (even the reference from the manga they gave didn't say it had no concious )


    I was taking it to mean for all time it had no concious as Kurama reflected on its past, but as far as currently I can definitely see it without concious as Madara and Obito have dialouged about controlling the juubi, etc.

    definitely shedding some more light on this ten tails stuff
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    You don't need sentience to create. For example... Icebergs created the Great Lakes. Juubi is a force of nature that both creates and destroys indiscrimnately
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    This is how I see the explanation:

    1. The ten tail is the creator or progenitor

    The way I understand is that everything required to create is within the ten-tails - that is he is composed of water, earth, etc. For example, when Naruto got Kyuubi chakra, wood started to grow trees. This mean that maybe ten tail chakra can cause water to flow, or trees to grow, etc.

    2. Ten tails as destructor

    Maybe the constituent of ten tail can be causes of creation, but his rage can also destroy. In addition, we can understand that it power can be used to destroy the planet as well.

    So basically, there is no contradiction. Even in real life, for those who believe in God, God is the creator of everything, but he can also annihilate everything. Human are the creation of God, and they can also create using the power that they got from him.
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexu9696 View Post
    The only possible explination with logic....

    A: The Ten-Tails is considered to be both creator of the world and the herald to its end if ever be revived.

    The ten-tails was good so he was the creator.... but after a period of time he was corrupted by someone or something... the sage had to seal it and split it so that the possesion or the evil corrupted will go away....

    E: Kurama describes the 10 tails: Lacks a consciousness. No feelings or ideals. Cannot be detected using negative emotions, malevolence or even chakra.

    I can't belive that... so before the ten tails was corrupted i think he had a consciousness , without a consciousness he could not be a creator of everything.... you can't create everything by accident

    G: As the original form of all nine tailed beasts, the Ten-Tails was said to possess massive and overwhelmingly foul chakra that is potent enough to bring total despair and destruction to the world

    Its said it has nature energy how is that chakra foul if can't be sensed by Naruto as evil ? Well same ideea it was corrupted.... and that is how his chakra was foul.....

    I think the Juubi we have now battling its one without corruption just nature energy but still his consciousness is long gone and its being controlled by madara and obito after they lost control i expect juubi to become just feral.... , the consciousness was lost forever when he was corrupted 1000 or more years ago

    PS. I belive in this ideea cuz we already now that uchiha becomed evil after they get the sharingan (Juubi has a big ass sharingan) and something is happening in their brain making them evil
    1. Not to get religion in this but God is neither good nor evil he creates life and takes it..I believe the Juubi is in the same aspect a giver and taker of life.

    2.Animals are neither good or evil they do what they do for survival they do it with out consciousness with no malice or negative emotions. I think the reason why the 10 tails can only be sensed for it's natural chakara is due to its abundance of it. Possibly once it reaches it's final form we have a thinking being not jus one based on natural reactions.

    3.I also agree that it's natural way of being was corrupted by mans greed and wars it must have filled the 10 tails with all that negative energy. Metaphysics is my guess to quote the last airbender ( we are all connected by an invisible thread)

    Derp said it I think its the reason why the 10 tails wants to destroy what he created for man's lack of respect for what it was given..pretty much it wants it's shit back by destroying everything.

    P.S. Great thread
     
         

  24. #24
    Senior Member Henchman24's Avatar
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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakashobito View Post
    Nope, the so6p fought against the juubi. You think that was without chakra?
    I believe that the Ten Tails existed long before the birth of the So6p. Of course the sage had chakra. The manga image in OP's post shows Kurama saying that the Ten tails is the beginning of all chakra. If that is the case then it must have existed before the sage's lifetime.
     
         

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    Re: 10 Tails information not matching up for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henchman24 View Post
    I believe that the Ten Tails existed long before the birth of the So6p. Of course the sage had chakra. The manga image in OP's post shows Kurama saying that the Ten tails is the beginning of all chakra. If that is the case then it must have existed before the sage's lifetime.
    Well we can only Guess about that
     
         

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