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  1. #1
    Hatred Zenic's Avatar
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    Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    *Before I start this thread I would like to say, in no way am I implying that Hashirama is weaker than Madara, I'm just proposing the idea so don't go flaming*



    Previous encounters:

    Hashirama & Madara have clashed numerous times but how many times have they faced each other as enemies? We are shown 3 battles between Hashirama and Madara in which they are going all out. The first was when they were really young and the next when they were a bit older and Hashirama is shown using Wood style



    The next battle we are shown more than just pictures, we see Izuna wounded by Tobirama and later died from the same wound. What most people didn't pick up is that Madara didn't escape, Hashirama let him leave



    Look on the top right corner, Madara is holding a smoke bomb and Hashirama obviously saw. Not only that but Hashirama could have restrained him before he took out the smoke bomb. How do I know? Madara looked wounded and fatigued where as Hashirama didn't have a scratch on him, this is Kishi telling us that Hashirama is still on top.

    In their final battle, Madara had Kurama at full power, EMS, Perfect Susano'o and so many more advantages on his side. Once again Hashirama overcame all those obstacles so once again Hashirama is shown above Madara.

    Conclusion of this bit: During all their encounters Hashirama always wins and lets Madara stay alive so this means Hashirama > Madara during previous encounters.




    A short conclusion:


    Madara didn't have the Rinnegan, Amaterasu, Izanagi, Tsukuyomi, Wood release or any Rinnegan techniques during their previous battles, Madara now has all those upgrades.

    What has Hashirama got that Madara couldn't overcome? A thousand hands technique & Mokuton. Well now Madara has numerous jutsu that can destroy any of Hashirama's jutsu. A thousand hands? Shattered heaven (meteor's) can easily crush it.

    Madara now has unlimited chakra which means he can spam all his jutsu, how can Hashirama extinguish Amaterasu? How can Hashirama escape Tsukuyomi? How can Hashirama withstand shattered heaven? The answer is that he can't from what he has shown us so far.

    Hashirama came out of the VOTE battle fatigued and out of chakra, the fight went on for over a day which means they were pretty well matched but that was in the past. If Hashirama just survived the VOTE battle with a fodder Madara how can he survive this hugely improved Madara who is destroying hundreds of thousands of shinobi?

    Once again, this is just my speculation and analysis, all I'm saying is based on feats Madara is superior than Hashirama at the moment. In no way am I saying Hashirama can't overcome him, we are yet to see.



    Thanks for reading, if you enjoyed it just leave a reply! Please don't flame
     
         

  2. #2
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Rinnegan FTW
     
         

  3. #3
    Nurse Proof Chibiusa's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    I thought you were banned

    OT: It's possible. Madara is pretty jacked up now. A rematch would be interesting. However, overall Hashi is still better because his power is all his own
     
         

  4. #4
    Hatred Zenic's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chibiusa View Post
    I thought you were banned

    OT: It's possible. Madara is pretty jacked up now. A rematch would be interesting. However, overall Hashi is still better because his power is all his own

    Yeah, I was banned for a day. Who cares if it's not his own power, Kabuto > Orochimaru but it's not his own power right?
     
         

  5. #5
    Member Koha's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Attaining the Rinnegan put him completely over Hashirama at this point, every path is a perfect counter to Hashirama's techniques... Down to a T. Only an irrational, hype-filled fanboy could disagree at this point, feats or gtfo. -____-
     
         

  6. #6
    Sunbro pateuvasiliu's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Hashirama was way above EMS Madara.

    I would say they are nearly equal.

    feats or gtfo. -____-
     
         

  7. #7
    Scavenger of humans sorrow phantomlord22's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    we still don't know what the hell is thousand hands!
    so we can't say a thing
     
         

  8. #8
    Banned MinatoTheYellowFlash's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Derp Obito View Post
    Rinnegan FTW
    Lun LOL where do ya'll find that sound?
     
         

  9. #9
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Amaterasu is sensed and blocked by replacing with a wood clone. Not to mention he hasn't even shown it or how good he is with it.

    Tsukuyomi is not as strong as Itachi's so he can simply disturb his chakra and break it. Not applicable in a debate though since no one knows his skill with the technique.

    Izanagi only grants him invincibility and it takes away his eye sight afterwards. Don't see how it will make a difference when he needs raw power to take down Shinsuusenju and afterwards he would lose his Susanoo so he would get stomped.

    His Mokuton is inferior to Hashirama's. Shinsuusenju trumps any Mokuton technique Madara brings out.

    The Meteors were smaller than Mountains and Perfect Susanoo. Shinsuusenju dwarfs both so it will block the meteor.

    Since when did Hashirama come out fatigued and out of chakra? He came out injured.

    Fodder Madara? Are you joking? If he was fodder Hashirama would have stomped him.
     
         

  10. #10
    Banned MinatoTheYellowFlash's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Hashirama was way above EMS Madara.

    I would say they are nearly equal.



    Fail, you probably think Kakashi > Minato too right (rolls eyes)
     
         

  11. #11
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koha View Post
    Attaining the Rinnegan put him completely over Hashirama at this point, every path is a perfect counter to Hashirama's techniques... Down to a T. Only an irrational, hype-filled fanboy could disagree at this point, feats or gtfo. -____-
    Ironic how you say "feats or gtfo" Yet Madara hasn't displayed any of his Rinnegan techniques.
     
         

  12. #12
    The Dog Sage Gatsuuga's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Not sure who is stronger but don't forget Hashirama is an Edo too. If Madara with his unlimited chakra but only limited senju dna could create a massive flower world imagine what hashi could do with his unlimited chakra. I wouldn't be suprised if Kishi made him a million hand buddha that ***** slapped madaras meteors away.
     
         

  13. #13
    Senior Member lordmadarauchiha's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Haven't people realized this by now
     
         

  14. #14
    Banned MinatoTheYellowFlash's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Amaterasu is sensed and blocked by replacing with a wood clone. Not to mention he hasn't even shown it or how good he is with it.

    Tsukuyomi is not as strong as Itachi's so he can simply disturb his chakra and break it. Not applicable in a debate though since no one knows his skill with the technique.

    Izanagi only grants him invincibility and it takes away his eye sight afterwards. Don't see how it will make a difference when he needs raw power to take down Shinsuusenju and afterwards he would lose his Susanoo so he would get stomped.

    His Mokuton is inferior to Hashirama's. Shinsuusenju trumps any Mokuton technique Madara brings out.

    The Meteors were smaller than Mountains and Perfect Susanoo. Shinsuusenju dwarfs both so it will block the meteor.

    Since when did Hashirama come out fatigued and out of chakra? He came out injured.

    Fodder Madara? Are you joking? If he was fodder Hashirama would have stomped him.


     
         

  15. #15
    Member Vishvak Tatineni's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomlord22 View Post
    we still don't know what the hell is thousand hands!
    so we can't say a thing
    a thousand hands = a thousand slaps

    damm hashi really wanted to insult madara . just kidding :D
     
         

  16. #16
    Hatred Zenic's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Amaterasu is sensed and blocked by replacing with a wood clone. Not to mention he hasn't even shown it or how good he is with it.

    Tsukuyomi is not as strong as Itachi's so he can simply disturb his chakra and break it. Not applicable in a debate though since no one knows his skill with the technique.

    Izanagi only grants him invincibility and it takes away his eye sight afterwards. Don't see how it will make a difference when he needs raw power to take down Shinsuusenju and afterwards he would lose his Susanoo so he would get stomped.

    His Mokuton is inferior to Hashirama's. Shinsuusenju trumps any Mokuton technique Madara brings out.

    The Meteors were smaller than Mountains and Perfect Susanoo. Shinsuusenju dwarfs both so it will block the meteor.

    Since when did Hashirama come out fatigued and out of chakra? He came out injured.

    Fodder Madara? Are you joking? If he was fodder Hashirama would have stomped him.

    By fodder I meant compared to the new Madara lol.

    He came out injured & fatigued. How could one not come out tired from a battle like that?

    Thousand hands looked like a statue, it wasn't moving or anything so my guess is that it's a defensive jutsu and Madara can spam meteor's to take it down, you said that the meteors were small but did you see the impact?
     
         

  17. #17
    Member Koha's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Amaterasu is sensed and blocked by replacing with a wood clone. Not to mention he hasn't even shown it or how good he is with it.

    Tsukuyomi is not as strong as Itachi's so he can simply disturb his chakra and break it. Not applicable in a debate though since no one knows his skill with the technique.

    Izanagi only grants him invincibility and it takes away his eye sight afterwards. Don't see how it will make a difference when he needs raw power to take down Shinsuusenju and afterwards he would lose his Susanoo so he would get stomped.

    His Mokuton is inferior to Hashirama's. Shinsuusenju trumps any Mokuton technique Madara brings out.

    The Meteors were smaller than Mountains and Perfect Susanoo. Shinsuusenju dwarfs both so it will block the meteor.

    Since when did Hashirama come out fatigued and out of chakra? He came out injured.

    Fodder Madara? Are you joking? If he was fodder Hashirama would have stomped him.
    The Paths, bro. The Paths.... And also, who wouldn't be fatigued after a battle like theirs', you give Hashirama a little too much credit, in the end he's human and was still extremely fatigued and injured. Izanagi is also a fool's technique, for what purpose does Edo Madara even need to use it, nothing has been confirmed about Madara's Mokuton being inferior, it's to be expected but it's not like to an extreme degree that it's weaker. And can't argue with the Mangekyou techniques, he hasn't really shown his own individual skill with it.
     
         

  18. #18
    Member Koha's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Ironic how you say "feats or gtfo" Yet Madara hasn't displayed any of his Rinnegan techniques.
    He's shown Preta Path so far. So, pretty much we know he has the rest of the Paths, well obviously.....
    And we obviously know because of Susano'o he has Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.


    Please, excuse the double post.
     
         

  19. #19
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koha View Post
    The Paths, bro. The Paths.... And also, who wouldn't be fatigued after a battle like theirs', you give Hashirama a little too much credit, in the end he's human and was still extremely fatigued and injured. Izanagi is also a fool's technique, for what purpose does Edo Madara even need to use it, nothing has been confirmed about Madara's Mokuton being inferior, it's to be expected but it's not like to an extreme degree that it's weaker. And can't argue with the Mangekyou techniques, he hasn't really shown his own individual skill with it.
    I know that I can't argue with the MS techs..I even mentioned it in my post. I also know that Izanagi is a bad move, another thing I noted in my post.

    Madara's Mokuton is inferior for the sheer fact that he lacks Hashirama's SM, which powers up his Mokuton (Shinsuusenju)

    Madara and Hashirama already fought for a day and Hashirama wasn't fatigued, neither was Madara. The outcome of the battle came down to who was stronger not attrition.

    How are the paths going to help him exactly?
     
         

  20. #20
    Member Koha's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    I know that I can't argue with the MS techs..I even mentioned it in my post. I also know that Izanagi is a bad move, another thing I noted in my post.

    Madara's Mokuton is inferior for the sheer fact that he lacks Hashirama's SM, which powers up his Mokuton (Shinsuusenju)

    Madara and Hashirama already fought for a day and Hashirama wasn't fatigued, neither was Madara. The outcome of the battle came down to who was stronger not attrition.

    How are the paths going to help him exactly?
    Specifically Preta Path and Deva Path, any chakra used to attack offensively using Mokuton would be useless as the chakra would be absorbed from the material used, and if a full scale Mokuton was used, then Chibaku Tensei could be used as well being much more devastating, but as Edo's neither would kill each other, since both of them haven't shown any type of sealing type Jutsu. Well never mind... Human Path puts Madara at an advantage as an Edo, being able to strip the soul from a vessel.


    Please excuse my sloppy, lazy arguing. kinda drained today, so I'm not trying to put too much thought into this. Just enough for some validity.
     
         
    Last edited by Koha; 04-03-2013 at 06:11 AM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Could Madara be stronger than Hashirama now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koha View Post
    Specifically Preta Path and Deva Path, any chakra used to attack offensively using Mokuton would be useless as the chakra would be absorbed from the material used, and if a full scale Mokuton was used, then Chibaku Tensei could be used as well being much more devastating, but as Edo's neither would kill each other, since both of them haven't shown any type of sealing type Jutsu. Well never mind... Human Path puts Madara at an advantage as an Edo, being able to strip the soul from a vessel.


    Please excuse my sloppy, lazy arguing. kinda drained today, so I'm not trying to put too much thought into this. Just enough for some validity.
    Shinsuusenju could simply extend its hands and smash the core before it gets too large. Using Preta against it hardly seems like a good idea, considering it has Senjutsu chakra in it and it being so big...Madara might experience some negative effects. Not to mention standing there absorbing something that large wouldn't help anyway.


    Its no problem.
     
         

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