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  1. #1
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    I have come to the conclusion that based on the subtle evidences presented in Ch. 626 that Madara used a specific type of Genjutsu to make Hashirama believe he killed him and escape certain death. There is also the possibility of him using something similar to Muu's Fission Jutsu if the former is not the case.


    Take a look at this:



    Don't you find it peculiar that Madara's EMS was activated after dislodging from Kurama?

    And that the image of the Moon appeared Immediately after that panel:



    It's possible that prior or during the one on one fight, Madara casted a genjutsu on Hashirama



    And after Hashirama "killed" him, this was shown:



    And did you notice Hashirama's peculiar upward glare:
    Why would Hashirama be looking upward if Madara was laying on the ground?


    And did you notice the peculiar "diamond shape" symbol?



    That is the manga/anime trope for optical illusion/mesmerization




    The same sparkle effect that appeared after Itachi's Genjutsu on Naruto ended




    And that is why the same image/symbol appeared on the moon and on the panel after Hashirama looked upward:

    Before the fight:



    After the fight:



    The genjutsu had just ended/ wore off that is why Hashirama fell to his feet:



    That is why Hashirama has no idea how Madara survived even though he was apparently sure he killed him:



    Because Hashirama was under a genjutsu at that time. Hashirama might have injured Madara but Madara was not killed because he used a genjutsu or a limited form of Tsukuyomi during that fight:

    UPDATE 1

    A friend of mine AlphaScythian noticed something peculiar:



    The moment Hashirama stabbed Madara, the latter's Sharingan reacted


    That is the same Sound FX used when the Sharingan is activated/deactivated:


    (Sasuke's Sharingan)

    Which adds credence to the fact that Genjutsu was involved.

    UPDATE 2

    There's also the peculiarity of the sword that stabbed Madara.

    When Madara fell to the ground, the sword was lounged in his chest:



    But after Hashirama looked upward and fell on his feet:



    The sword was glaringly missing in Madara's body:



    Which further suggests the involvement of Genjutsu.
     
         
    Last edited by Sir Derp Obito; 04-07-2013 at 03:14 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    This makes sense !!! Mind blowing hard facts
     
         

  3. #3
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    SHINRA TENSEI
     

    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Nice theory!, It is like the one I posted an hour ago, but with a little more detail in the genjutsu part!
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Is this to mean that Madara kills Hashi?
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Yep...Some guy said the same thing on youtube...
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    great find, glad other people notice this stuff becuase i dont, + rep
     
         

  7. #7
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by deva pein View Post
    Nice theory!, It is like the one I posted an hour ago, but with a little more detail in the genjutsu part!
    Thank you
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Plausible, but it could be a pathetic fallacy.

    "Madara dies, the advent of the moon/night is upon him" Hence the reason to show the moon.
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    The diamond symbols signifies a sudden action, or a sudden realization. I believe Hashirama dropped down due to the wounds he had endured throughout the fight, that finally took a tole in his body at the end.
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Derp Obito View Post
    I have come to the conclusion that based on the subtle evidences presented in Ch. 626 that Madara used a genjutsu or possibly a form of limited Tsukuyomi to make Hashirama think he killed him.


    Take a look at this:



    Don't you find it peculiar that Madara's EMS was activated after dislodging from Kurama?

    And that the image of the Moon appeared Immediately after that panel:



    It's because Madara already casted the genjutsu on Hashirama even before they fought mano--mano.

    And that is why Madara's EMS was already deactivated at the preceding panels, the genjutsu has already been cast:



    And after Hashirama "killed" him, this was shown:



    And did you notice Hashirama's peculiar upwards glare:



    And did you notice the peculiar "diamond shape" symbol?



    That is the manga/anime trope for optical illusion



    And that is why the same image/symbol appeared on the moon and on the panel after Hashirama looked upward:

    Before the fight:



    After the fight:



    The genjutsu had just ended that is why Hashirama fell to his feet:



    That is why Hashirama has no idea how Madara survived even though he was apparently sure he killed him:



    Hashirama was under a genjutsu at that time. Hashirama might have injured Madara but Madara was not killed because he used a genjutsu or a limited form of Tsukuyomi during that fight:


    Using the Moon:




    But Madara it's still wounded,and if the genjutsu ended,why is Madara still on the ground?
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Yup, makes sense. I figured the EMS panel and the moon panel right after it were linked to Madara's survival. Kishimoto doesn't do things like that on random after all.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Good theory.
     
         

  13. #13
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    Yup, makes sense. I figured the EMS panel and the moon panel right after it were linked to Madara's survival. Kishimoto doesn't do things like that on random after all.
    Indubitably So
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    jus made a post like this but you had more detail great job,
     
         

  15. #15
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by first sage hokage View Post
    jus made a post like this but you had more detail great job,
    Thank you Shodai :scorps:
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Good job on outlining a lot of the detail in the evidence presented to us by Kishi.

    There are unfortunately some who think it's completely far-fetched that Madara could have perhaps survived through some form of genjutsu.

    Plausible theory.
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    why did madara say that hashi changed after he stabbed him
    it was that moment that hashi realized that he would kill anyone who messes with his village even if that person he considered a brother
    do you really think that madara knew that hashi was going to come up with that resolve
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Derp Obito View Post
    Thank you Shodai :scorps:
    Fixed.

    (I get so itchy when people get that wrong.)
     
         

  19. #19
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    Good job on outlining a lot of the detail in the evidence presented to us by Kishi.

    There are unfortunately some who think it's completely far-fetched that Madara could have perhaps survived through some form of genjutsu.

    Plausible theory.
    Thanks, some suggested it was Izanagi he used but i find that unlikely.
     
         

  20. #20
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    Fixed.

    (I get so itchy when people get that wrong.)
    lol sorry
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Doubt it. Genjutsu Sharingan time is limited and usually when someone is caught under a Sharingan genjutsu, he notices it whether it's at the exact moment the genjutsu is cast or later, but we all know that Hashirama lived long after Madara's death. He could not have been fooled forever. Also to use the moon to project genjutsu, Madara needs to summon it first like he said to Obito
     
         

  22. #22
    Senior Member Thane's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    While I believe you are correct, it would be a huge anti-climax. Of course, I wouldn't want there to be an entity walking around resurrecting people like that, since that could possibly lengthen the series even more.

    I didn't even notice Madara activating his EMS after he jumped off of the Nine-Tails, I only saw Hashirama looking up, so good job on spotting that (I guess? Maybe I'm just being blind).

    Still, why would Hashirama look upwards if he was caught in a genjutsu? I refuse to believe they fought to the death and Madara was left unscathed on top of that cliff and didn't jump down to finish Hashirama while he was weak.
     
         

  23. #23
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    Doubt it. Genjutsu Sharingan time is limited and usually when someone is caught under a Sharingan genjutsu, he notices it whether it's at the exact moment the genjutsu is cast or later, but we all know that Hashirama lived long after Madara's death. He could not have been fooled forever. Also to use the moon to project genjutsu, Madara needs to summon it first like he said to Obito
    Izanagi then you think?
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    His EMS was disabled due to the lack of chakra,the wound inflicted by Hashi it's real.Read the Mangastream version,it clears things up.
     
         

  25. #25
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReZ View Post
    His EMS was disabled due to the lack of chakra,the wound inflicted by Hashi it's real.Read the Mangastream version,it clears things up.
    I never suggested the wound wasn't real, what I said is Madara put a vodoo on Hashi that's why he thought he killed him.
     
         

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