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  1. #1
    Member Renpatsu Dei's Avatar
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    Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    This may sound nore convoluted than it actually is, I'm not suggesting Madara is Aizen. Now, to discuss this we have to understand the reason why Rin was killed in the first place. I would like to direct your attention to a thread by Centipede on this that has put it better than I ever could.

    http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=356893

    Now, personally, I think Rin was an involuntary spy more than anything, that ended up there as a child, that's why she was buried in the leaf village, but a spy from the Mist nonetheless. The era the Mist was in at that point was the bloody Mist, and as we know, the Mizukage was being controlled, by an Uchiha with extraordinary genjutsu prowess.



    We also know that when we last saw Madara alive, he had an eye that didn't belong to him, as he had given his real eyes to Nagato



    We can infer from the manga that close family members have similar mangekyo sharingan abilities, making their implantation for the EMS possible. Ao compared Kotoamatsukami to the genjutsu used to control the Mizukage, and only the family member of Shisui we know is Kagami.





    Now, we have no idea when Kagami died, but I don't think he lived to old age, as he definitely would have been on Hiruzen or Danzo's council if he was. I think Madara killed him (before he gave away his eyes obviously), and then took the eye for himself. We don't know if Kagami had MS but if he did, chances are, it would be something similar to Shisui's, allowing him to manipulate the Mizukage.

    Madara, then would have been the one to usher in the Bloody Mist era, and would have had a role in creating an involuntary spy like Rin Nohara. Even if it was the previous Mizukage who had done this, as Madara was in charge, he would have known about this plan. When Obito 'slipped through', (I still don't know what the **** that's all about), and started screaming about protecting Kakashi and Rin, he saw an opportunity.

    As we have seen with KA, the eye doesn't have to be visible for the genjustu to work and for and Uchiha with senju DNA like Madara, using a technique like that wouldn't have been too hard, and yes, he was attached to a statue during his later years, but it could be like Kyoka Suigetsu where you see it once and he can manipulate you where ever he is, without you knowing. Madara didn't know Kakashi, but he would have been aware of Rin, and the Uchiha being the emotional people they are, Madara would have known that attacking them may have swayed Obito to his side, as he had been with him for several months before the attack occurred. This would explain why he was so sure Obito would be back.



    However he also knew how the shinobi world worked, and how stupid it really was, better than anyone, so he knew that Kakashi would have to kill Rin. This would serve to make Obito understand where he was, a world where there are 'winners and losers' where people become sacrificial lambs for the 'greater good', just like the Uchiha, Itachi, Rin, the White Fang etc. After this and Obito getting Nagato on board, I'm assuming Obito carried on using the Mizukage, and Kisame recognised him for this reason.



    In conclusion, I believe Madara used Kagami Uchiha's eye to control the Mizukage, and orchestrated or at least knew of Rin's role as a spy, and when he saw how much Obito cared about his comrades, he used an attack on Rin and Kakashi to get Obito to understand his vision of the shinobi world and the positives of the moon's eye plan.
     
         
    Last edited by Renpatsu Dei; 04-17-2013 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Konohas Flasher Narutohokage7's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    Nice theory.
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    Maybe! he could have manipulated the event, or its just war and madara saw a young healthly determend obito and decide to make him his apperentice, either way good post! every sharingan eye is unique! look at obito"s kamui for example
     
         
    Last edited by AllomnisymbolsparttwoT; 04-17-2013 at 09:53 PM.

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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.


    Uhh ? Explain.
     
         

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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    I actually enjoyed reading that, good theory mate.
     
         

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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    I don't think Madara was controlling the Mizukage, I'm pretty sure that was Obito, because even after the attack on the Hidden Leaf Obito was still controlling the Mizukage. I do think Madara was absolutely the cause of Obito becoming Tobi though.
     
         

  7. #7
    Member Renpatsu Dei's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    Quote Originally Posted by DissonantValues View Post
    I don't think Madara was controlling the Mizukage, I'm pretty sure that was Obito, because even after the attack on the Hidden Leaf Obito was still controlling the Mizukage. I do think Madara was absolutely the cause of Obito becoming Tobi though.
    I think Madara started it, then Obito carried it on, so when Obito met with Kisame, he gave his name as Madara as he would have never actually seen him in person.
     
         

  8. #8
    Member The Great Second Hokage's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    I like it!
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    For whatever reason once that chapter came out showing Rin's death, the first thing I thought was "Spy? Rin. Never. Madara must have his hands in this somehow." I looked and gathered whatever info I could and I think that the Zetsu had a very large part in it. It was very suspicious how Obito inside spiral Zetsu got a blurred out image of Rin being stabbed. Madara must have somehow used the Zetsu to orchestrate the whole scenario to get Obito to agree to his plan.

    While you're plan makes sense, and I like it, I just don't think Madara could leave the room in which they were in due to being hooked up to the Gedo Mazou. But remember that Zetsu can transfer information through tree roots. Using this method Madara could, through a Zetsu clone, control the Mizukage.

    Like I said, nice theory but with Madara stuck it doesn't make complete sense. Still, nice read
     
         

  10. #10
    Logic for your mental. Stacks's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    I like your theory, Kakashi pretty much did the right thing..
     
         

  11. #11
    Member Renpatsu Dei's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    Quote Originally Posted by x iiiMPerFeCT View Post
    For whatever reason once that chapter came out showing Rin's death, the first thing I thought was "Spy? Rin. Never. Madara must have his hands in this somehow." I looked and gathered whatever info I could and I think that the Zetsu had a very large part in it. It was very suspicious how Obito inside spiral Zetsu got a blurred out image of Rin being stabbed. Madara must have somehow used the Zetsu to orchestrate the whole scenario to get Obito to agree to his plan.

    While you're plan makes sense, and I like it, I just don't think Madara could leave the room in which they were in due to being hooked up to the Gedo Mazou. But remember that Zetsu can transfer information through tree roots. Using this method Madara could, through a Zetsu clone, control the Mizukage.

    Like I said, nice theory but with Madara stuck it doesn't make complete sense. Still, nice read
    The Zetsu thing is a very good point, I thought Madara did it before he was stuck to the statue, I mean he managed to give his eyes to Nagato, unless Zetsu did that too.
     
         

  12. #12
    x iiiMPerFeCT's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renpatsu Dei View Post
    The Zetsu thing is a very good point, I thought Madara did it before he was stuck to the statue, I mean he managed to give his eyes to Nagato, unless Zetsu did that too.
    Zetsu would have had to perform the surgery. I am not ripping on Madara's abilities but removing your own eyes and replacing one with a random one? Sorry but Madara isn't that good. :scorps:
     
         

  13. #13
    Member Renpatsu Dei's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's role in creating 'Tobi'.

    Quote Originally Posted by x iiiMPerFeCT View Post
    Zetsu would have had to perform the surgery. I am not ripping on Madara's abilities but removing your own eyes and replacing one with a random one? Sorry but Madara isn't that good. :scorps:
    That is a fair point, one you're probably right about, but that doesn't affect the fact that Madara would have controlled the Mizukage, via Zetsu or not.
     
         

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