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  1. #1
    Akatsuki Member USSJ Future Trunks's Avatar
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    Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    My arguments:

    1. his suiton.
    first, only your imaginary friends said he was "greatest" or "strongest" suiton user. his main claim to fame was his edo tensei technique, to the point where most of the people who lived in his era knew he could do it http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c525/3.html. mu knew him and knew what his chakra signature was http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c525/4.html/ important because iwa and konoha were enemies once madara attacked them, and mu and tobirama must have battled each other relentlessly.
    chiyo knew how many he could summon, and that kabuto had perfected it, meaning she must have seen it in action quite a few times. the suiton hype itself came from a fodder, and orochimaru said its expected of a kage to be abel to do that. but then in part 2 power inflation is so bad we see fodders creating water where there is none
    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v59/c560/6.html and mei performing all the same shit tobirama was so hyped for, on a much bigger and more elaborate scale with the same amount of seals as him. even if he was supposed to be a weakened edo, kisame's 30% clone was more impressive than that measly little pond tobirama made. dont blame me for that, blame kishi for making tobirama's feats look like child's play. or that anbu was just such a noob hed be impressed by any jounin level shit.

    2. he cracked a room and made everyone shit their pants.
    false. http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c620/6.html it only put them on guard due to his agressiveness and killing intent. even sasuke would be wary of a hokage, i would think. even if its the weakest one so far. hashirama was the one who gave hiruzen a heart attack and cracked the room.

    3. he can break ET and minato cant.
    he created ET. its no surprise he tries to resist it. never did i see hiruzen or minato try so theres nothing to compare to. at the end of the day he cant do it. and this is WEAKER edo tensei than the one kabuto used. no one defied kabuto's ET once the amount of edos were reduced to about 10 or 15, at least while he was still an active controller. oro cannot handle 4 edos to save his life. though i get why. he used the looser bindings so they can talk. even worse for tobirama apologists.
    besides raw chakra levels never won anyone any fights. minatos superior in every way that matters.

    4. he killed a full power izuna who is equal to madara

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/14.html
    look at the battlefield. they are SURROUNDED by senjus. dont you think izuna was fighting an army, not just tobirama. and considering izuna's surprise it WAS in fact a sneak cheap shot. not an all out final duel where they could face each other in single combat. it was a chaotic battle/war, like how in one piece, a fodder vice admiral took out marco even though marcos admiral level. i mean tobriamas rival being surprised he used FTG? unlikely. hes surprised the attack happened AT ALL. not only that but izuna was going blind http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v42/c385/14.html madara also refers to hashirama as the one who caused his brother to die or at least thats how it seems to me http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/16.html

    itachi said madara was the first one to awaken MS. http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/9.html madara admitted hashiramas stronger than him and in turn izuna implies madaras above him. given he didnt even awaken the sharingan before madara did. izuna always rode his brother's coat tails. always one step behind http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v42/c385/5.html.

    the first statement NEVER changed in the course of their battles. so we have no reason to believe izuna's opinion changed either. after all madara was the leader and not izuna. the older bro is stronger in the senju pair. and kishi is drawing parallels to their childhoods. furthermore the only word we have on izuna and madara being equal is itachi's who also claimed madara STOLE his eyes. confirmed incorrect by madara HIMSELF http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/16.html5. we cant take anything itachi ever said at face value anymore. especially when he had good reason to be lying, to manipulate sasuke and paint madara as an evil bad guy so he wont follow him. look at this http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v42/c386/4.html itachi specifies izuna was the younger one. why would he need to emphasise that unless he wanted sasuke to draw parallels?

    obito, the man who knew way way more than itachi about the subject, painted the relationship as madara the older bro doing everything he can to protect his wittle bro. if izuna's so mighty and powerful why does NO ONE of that time period ever comment on him or say anything about his abilities? if izunas so mighty and powerful why did he need protection? i never saw anything from hashiramas flashback that painted the two brothers as rivals constantly fighting each other to improve their skills as itachi claims.


    5. he is a hokage and therefore he is strong.
    when did the kage title automatically mean your among the strongest? nothing will ever change the fact he was defeated by kin and gin. all that supposed hax, all the supposed jumping around with FTG and he lost. not only that but they didnt even think he was worth anything. they got angry that his jutsu resurrected him

    This is what the VIZ says.

    ginkaku:Pitiful! Snared by the Second Hokage, when we beat him before, eh Kinkaku?
    does this really sound like someone who actually respects the second and thinks hes strong? we have multiple statements saying tobirama was DEFEATED, and we have this
    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c526/18.html
    "he inherited the third raikage's jutsus. he must have some skill" this means in the same page they are talking utter shit about a random ass hole they defeated a long time ago, they take the time to point out respect for third raikage and whatever disciple he gained. later on they pretty much trash darui as well. only third raikage has ever earned even a modicum of respect from those two bros. and i cant imagine it being for any other reason than he was skilled and strong.

    the kage rank also encompasses candidates so danzo (no sharingan upgrades. he was a candidate without them knowing he had that) is in that category. 4th kazekage, mei and old hiruzen were kages. doesnt mean much to be strongest in the village when your village has lost its two best (hashi and madara) and your next best bet is a little kid (hiruzen).
     
         
    Last edited by Wesobi; 05-02-2013 at 07:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Akatsuki Member USSJ Future Trunks's Avatar
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    Re: Crushing the Tobirama myths

    tobirama hater much
    all your threads are bashing tobirama it seems
    most of them are fanboying over obito sakura and kabuto actually

    what about all the uchiha so....
    all i saw was senjus
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: Crushing the Tobirama myths

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    most of them are fanboying over obito sakura and kabuto actually

    all i saw was senjus


    theres one but he's been killed



    heres other uchiha who decided to surrender
     
         

  4. #4
    Sage equaled to Heaven Wukong's Avatar
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    Re: Crushing the Tobirama myths

    What I don't understand is how can Tobirama have FTG when the databook said Minato Created FTG, as well as Minato saying "he wields space time techniques that exceeds both the second AND my own".

    1- It's not the first time in this manga we see jutsus with similar names which are not related at all. For example, there is a technique that starts with the same name as a gentle fist style technique like Eight trigram sixty four palms called Eight trigram sealing technique, but like you can see we're talking about 2different jutsus. They are not even related

    2- Yes it's true, the name is similar to Minato's jutsu, but what people are forgetting is the last word of the name Flying Thunder God Slash

    The fact his technique is a slash means it's a kenjutsu technique.

    But Tobirama might be at levels of others but he really isn't the strongest I do have to agree; but he does have a killer instinct unlike Hashi,
     
         
    Last edited by Wukong; 05-02-2013 at 05:56 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Crushing the Tobirama myths

    Look, to everyone posting in here it's simple.

    Bashing a character = HE SUCKS, DOES NOTHING GOOD, HE'S USELESS.

    Saying you think a character is bad, with argumentation isn't bashing.
    OP gave A LOT of arguments, so instead of going all "YOU SUCH A TOBIRAMA HATER or LOL, TL;DR", DISCUSS what he said. It's not like the thread isn't open forum discussion.

    @OP: The title I will change because it's indeed a bit bashing. I hope you won't blindly insult, neg rep, ignore people who discuss with you as well..


    As for all the rest, stop spamming with "HATER" or I'll infract you. Simple as that.
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    You were disproven when you claimed Kisame > Madara due to lack of screentime and were all hype!

    You will be disproven again, so why don't you just be patient and keep your sorry opinion to your self!
    It makes you less annoying that way!
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    My arguments:

    1. his suiton.
    first, only your imaginary friends said he was "greatest" or "strongest" suiton user. his main claim to fame was his edo tensei technique, to the point where most of the people who lived in his era knew he could do it http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c525/3.html. mu knew him and knew what his chakra signature was http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c525/4.html/ important because iwa and konoha were enemies once madara attacked them, and mu and tobirama must have battled each other relentlessly.
    chiyo knew how many he could summon, and that kabuto had perfected it, meaning she must have seen it in action quite a few times. the suiton hype itself came from a fodder, and orochimaru said its expected of a kage to be abel to do that. but then in part 2 power inflation is so bad we see fodders creating water where there is none
    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v59/c560/6.html and mei performing all the same shit tobirama was so hyped for, on a much bigger and more elaborate scale with the same amount of seals as him. even if he was supposed to be a weakened edo, kisame's 30% clone was more impressive than that measly little pond tobirama made. dont blame me for that, blame kishi for making tobirama's feats look like child's play. or that anbu was just such a noob hed be impressed by any jounin level shit.

    2. he cracked a room and made everyone shit their pants.
    false. http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c620/6.html it only put them on guard due to his agressiveness and killing intent. even sasuke would be wary of a hokage, i would think. even if its the weakest one so far. hashirama was the one who gave hiruzen a heart attack and cracked the room.

    3. he can break ET and minato cant.
    he created ET. its no surprise he tries to resist it. never did i see hiruzen or minato try so theres nothing to compare to. at the end of the day he cant do it. and this is WEAKER edo tensei than the one kabuto used. no one defied kabuto's ET once the amount of edos were reduced to about 10 or 15, at least while he was still an active controller. oro cannot handle 4 edos to save his life. though i get why. he used the looser bindings so they can talk. even worse for tobirama apologists.
    besides raw chakra levels never won anyone any fights. minatos superior in every way that matters.

    4. he killed a full power izuna who is equal to madara

    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/14.html
    look at the battlefield. they are SURROUNDED by senjus. dont you think izuna was fighting an army, not just tobirama. and considering izuna's surprise it WAS in fact a sneak cheap shot. not an all out final duel where they could face each other in single combat. it was a chaotic battle/war, like how in one piece, a fodder vice admiral took out marco even though marcos admiral level. i mean tobriamas rival being surprised he used FTG? unlikely. hes surprised the attack happened AT ALL. not only that but izuna was going blind http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v42/c385/14.html madara also refers to hashirama as the one who caused his brother to die or at least thats how it seems to me http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/16.html

    itachi said madara was the first one to awaken MS. http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/9.html madara admitted hashiramas stronger than him and in turn izuna implies madaras above him. given he didnt even awaken the sharingan before madara did. izuna always rode his brother's coat tails. always one step behind http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v42/c385/5.html.

    the first statement NEVER changed in the course of their battles. so we have no reason to believe izuna's opinion changed either. after all madara was the leader and not izuna. the older bro is stronger in the senju pair. and kishi is drawing parallels to their childhoods. furthermore the only word we have on izuna and madara being equal is itachi's who also claimed madara STOLE his eyes. confirmed incorrect by madara HIMSELF http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v63/c624/16.html5. we cant take anything itachi ever said at face value anymore. especially when he had good reason to be lying, to manipulate sasuke and paint madara as an evil bad guy so he wont follow him. look at this http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v42/c386/4.html itachi specifies izuna was the younger one. why would he need to emphasise that unless he wanted sasuke to draw parallels?

    obito, the man who knew way way more than itachi about the subject, painted the relationship as madara the older bro doing everything he can to protect his wittle bro. if izuna's so mighty and powerful why does NO ONE of that time period ever comment on him or say anything about his abilities? if izunas so mighty and powerful why did he need protection? i never saw anything from hashiramas flashback that painted the two brothers as rivals constantly fighting each other to improve their skills as itachi claims.


    5. he is a hokage and therefore he is strong.
    when did the kage title automatically mean your among the strongest? nothing will ever change the fact he was defeated by kin and gin. all that supposed hax, all the supposed jumping around with FTG and he lost. not only that but they didnt even think he was worth anything. they got angry that his jutsu resurrected him

    This is what the VIZ says.

    does this really sound like someone who actually respects the second and thinks hes strong? we have multiple statements saying tobirama was DEFEATED, and we have this
    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c526/18.html
    "he inherited the third raikage's jutsus. he must have some skill" this means in the same page they are talking utter shit about a random ass hole they defeated a long time ago, they take the time to point out respect for third raikage and whatever disciple he gained. later on they pretty much trash darui as well. only third raikage has ever earned even a modicum of respect from those two bros. and i cant imagine it being for any other reason than he was skilled and strong.

    the kage rank also encompasses candidates so danzo (no sharingan upgrades. he was a candidate without them knowing he had that) is in that category. 4th kazekage, mei and old hiruzen were kages. doesnt mean much to be strongest in the village when your village has lost its two best (hashi and madara) and your next best bet is a little kid (hiruzen).
    1. We think he was great at Suiton because as an Edo, not near full power; he did the Water Dragon Bullet jutsu with one hand seal, which requires forty-four.

    2. Not only did the crack the room, he raised his finger. Suigetsu crapped his pants, Hiruzen was telling him to stop, the first was worried, and he put Taka on gaurd. With his finger.

    3. Hiruzen has information on Edo Tensei. Hiruzen knows every jutsu native to Konoha, and Edo Tensei is from Konoha. Remember when Orochimaru tried summoning three Edo's? Hiruzen made one hand seal and then one coffin went back underground, and it probably was the fourth hokage.

    4. There were Uchihas too. It was a Senju vs Uchiha battle. The Uchiha gave up because they were outmatched. Izuna vs Tobirama was a fair fight, it is just Hiraishingiri was too fast for Izuna. Hashirama did not help by the way, he was fighting Madara.

    5. Since Tobirama was a Hokage, we can infer he indeed was strong. He may not have been the strongest, but he must have been pretty damn close.

    6. Ginkaku and Kinkaku ambushed Tobirama and the Nidaime Raikage. It is a feat he escaped since they had the Sage's weapons.
     
         

  8. #8
    Akatsuki Member USSJ Future Trunks's Avatar
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    We think he was great at Suiton because as an Edo, not near full power; he did the Water Dragon Bullet jutsu with one hand seal, which requires forty-four.
    again not that impressive. mei did the same thing without a problem

    Not only did the crack the room, he raised his finger. Suigetsu crapped his pants, Hiruzen was telling him to stop, the first was worried, and he put Taka on gaurd. With his finger.
    hashirama cracked the room. suigetsu didnt care about tobirama. the first was merely royally pissed off. of course they are on guard. he was radiating major killing intent.

    Hiruzen has information on Edo Tensei. Hiruzen knows every jutsu native to Konoha, and Edo Tensei is from Konoha
    i know that already. he stated he knows of the technique.
    when Orochimaru tried summoning three Edo's? Hiruzen made one hand seal and then one coffin went back underground
    because the coffin had minato in it. it failed because he couldnt properly call the soul back as it was in death god. hiruzen had nothing to do with it

    zuna vs Tobirama was a fair fight, it is just Hiraishingiri was too fast for Izuna.
    how do you know? we didnt see the fight

    Ginkaku and Kinkaku ambushed Tobirama and the Nidaime Raikage
    no they didnt. tobirama is a sensor. he sensed madara for the love of christ. while he was miles and miles away. your telling me he cant know two kyuubis are coming?

    You were disproven when you claimed Kisame > Madara
    when did i claim that?

    when the databook said Minato Created FTG,
    obviously its wrong like every other time its been wrong
     
         

  9. #9
    The "Nice-Guy" [Pose] AfricanProdigy's Avatar
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    We get you hate Tobirama, but he's a Hokage for a reason...
     
         

  10. #10
    The "Nice-Guy" [Pose] AfricanProdigy's Avatar
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    [QUOTE=USSJ Future Trunks;11439015]again not that impressive. mei did the same thing without a problem

    How is that not impressive? MEI IS A FU**ING MIZUKAGE! So just because Mei did it also doesn't mean that anyone else can because in case you didn't know she's a Kage! Unless you hate on her as well, which wouldn't be a surprise! Not to mention she has some quite rare Kekkai Genkai? Mei might not be able to compete against Madara, but IMO strong enough to fight MS Sasuke 1v1.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    At first I looked at the title of this thread, and I saw USSJ making a thread titled this way?

    Then I realized a mod changed the title to that.



    And by the way, there is no proper translated scan of the Tobirama being the best Suiton user ever, but the Japanese subbed anime says he is. That should be more than enough for you to accept it.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    He is a bit overhyped but I still love him!
     
         

  13. #13
    Akatsuki Member USSJ Future Trunks's Avatar
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    Re: Why I think Tobirama might be overrated - Open Discussion - No flaming, etc.

    How is that not impressive?
    read what i said properly. i said not THAT impressive. meaning not "omg what a monster thats so powerful". mei is the weakest mizukage SO FAR. and possibly weakest kage overall

    Unless you hate on her as well, which wouldn't be a surprise
    shes one of the precious few strong kunoichis. thats the last thing id want to do. especially when i want sakura to surpass every other kunoichi by the end

    she has some quite rare Kekkai Genkai?
    so did haku and kimimaro

    IMO strong enough to fight MS Sasuke 1v1.
    what, based on the skirmish at kage summit?
     
         

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