View Poll Results: What do you think about Tite's depiction of Shinji in this fight?

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  • Tite Kubo's depiction of Shinji throughout the fight = logical

    8 47.06%
  • Tite Kubo's depiction of Shinji throughout the fight = illogical

    9 52.94%
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  1. #1
    Kuroi Honoo's Avatar
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    Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    This recent chapter of Bleach was so ridiculous that I had to post a thread and voice out my frustrations here. The Tozen/Komomura/Hisagi situation was fine I had no complains there but Shinji/Aizen part of the manga was really disturbing to say the least.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/3
    I mean, Shinji finally releases his kakkoii Sakanade's shikai which in my opinion had a nice look about it. I was quite jealous of the apperance of it because my favorite Vizard is Kensei but Shinji's Shikai takes the cake in design -_-

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/6
    It even has a phenomenal ability.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/9
    He does get a hit on him which was quite shocking because who has done this yet? Although...

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/7
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/10
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/11
    to my surprise he had been explaining his Zanpakutou to Aizen. What?!!!

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Bleach/387/12
    After all the information he leaked out, this is what happens to him as a result.

    A former captain of the Gobantai and very close to Hiyori who gets severed from the waist down by Gin's Shikai due to Aizen taunting them earlier, has a chat with Aizen about his Zanpakutou's abilities with a seemingly cheerful attitude might I add, all the while Hiyori continuing to suffer becuase of the man standing before him? I was expecting for Shinji to handle Aizen in a much concerned manner and expressing anger at the very least for what happened to Sarugaki, but we instead get this kind of a chapter. This absolutely made no sense or logic to me at all whatsoever and was very ridiculous. When Shinji went up against Grimmjow he had him guessing and was always a step ahead of him but when he goes against Aizen who is as freakishly powerful as he is a genius as to how he got that far untouched (until Shinji) gives off this cocky type attitude and completely underestimates him. What happened here Tite? Honestly one of the worst chapters I have yet to read of bleach. Then we have Ichigo randomly breaking out of Garganta aiming to strike Aizen. Ichigo please don't be so self absorbed to go charging in to attack Aizen, knowing what he did to you the last time you faced him, yes you were inexperienced as a shinigami but even now you are still learning. Unohana did tell him that he was the only one who could defeat him due to having yet baring witness to his Shikai but why go in so rashly in the very beginning of the fight? Wow....if there was anybody to kill Aizen it should have either been Shinji because of Hiyori/Aizen being the reason why they underwent hollowfication or Toushirou because of Hinamori but if he is defeated/killed by Ichigo then in my opinion, this will have been one of the worst endings for a villain such as Aizen.
     
         
    Last edited by Mugiwara; 12-26-2009 at 10:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    i so totally freaking agree with u u are completely right!!!
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Good read. Though your wrong on him being the worst Captains

    I mean I've read some threads related to this Shinji being retarded/stupid. Though you don't realize what he is capable of. Yes, he single handedly destroyed Grimmjow. Now Aizen might take what Shinji said and thinks he might have won the battle because Shinji told him the abilities about his Zanpakutou, but we don't really know what those abilities are. Yes, they turn all the directions backwards, but what else. Surely, if Shinji was a Captain, don't you think he might be a really strong one. Now the situation with Hiyori, that cocky/not-taking-things-seriously act of Shinji , might just be a cover up so his feelings or emotions won't get in the way.

    I don't know but to say Shinji is stupid outragious.
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharingan09 View Post
    Good read. Though your wrong on him being the worst Captains

    I mean I've read some threads related to this Shinji being retarded/stupid. Though you don't realize what he is capable of. Yes, he single handedly destroyed Grimmjow. Now Aizen might take what Shinji said and thinks he might have won the battle because Shinji told him the abilities about his Zanpakutou, but we don't really know what those abilities are. Yes, they turn all the directions backwards, but what else. Surely, if Shinji was a Captain, don't you think he might be a really strong one. Now the situation with Hiyori, that cocky/not-taking-things-seriously act of Shinji , might just be a cover up so his feelings or emotions won't get in the way.

    I don't know but to say Shinji is stupid outragious.
    what you say is right but giving all the abilities inf. away?

    right>left
    up>down
    and etc. he should of expirienced those while fighting him =\
     
         

  5. #5
    ロロノア・ゾロ Caliburn's Avatar
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Sorry but I disagree, more or less, completely with you.

    1: Why are you posting links of Mangastreams while we have the chapter here? NarutoBase.net - Bleach Manga Chapter 387 - Page 1

    2: You think way to rational to actually read manga's in my opinion Yes he could have attacked Aizen and cut off his head in one motion or could have shut his mouth, but that would have meant the end of Bleach...not to mention it would be incredibly stupid, ever more stupid than what he did -_-

    3: Have you even thought about the emiotions which play in that situation? It is more than normal that he wouldn't have attacked him in one blow or acted different (I don't say it was smart) as that would not be...satisfying. After all the things he has done to them he wants him at least aware that he died. If he just would have killed him instantly the pain he would have felt would be nothing compared to the hell they went through.
    If all the battles in all the manga's would be like you describedt this situation, I would stop reading them as they would be completely boring and dull. It needs that kind of emotional touch.

    4: I completely disagree on the thing you said about Ichigo. What do you want him to do then? Explaining his shikai/bankai/hollow powers...the same Shinji did but on whom you comment it was stupid? Well Ichigo is trying to do that. You do realize if he doesn't attack instantly, Aizen can release his shikai and then all is lost -_- There is one thing Ichigo can't do and that is giving Aizen time.
    You completely contradict yourself in this matter, I would have done exactly the same as he doesn't have another option atm!

    5: Apparantly you're under the assumption that this is the final battle, as a lot of people The chances on that are almost zero if you think about it. I predicted long ago that Tousen would be defeated or would die in this battle and that Gin and Aizen would need to redraw...and it looks a lot like it. Aizen's role is far from over, so you can be sure he will not die here. Though he will be forced away or something.
     
         
    Last edited by Caliburn; 12-27-2009 at 08:41 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    I completely agree with you Cali. He will be forced to withdraw, at some point. The Vasto Lordes still need to play there part in this as well.
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    Sorry but I disagree, more or less, completely with you.

    1: Why are you posting links of Mangastreams while we have the chapter here? NarutoBase.net - Bleach Manga Chapter 387 - Page 1

    2: You think way to rational to actually read manga's in my opinion Yes he could have attacked Aizen and cut off his head in one motion or could have shut his mouth, but that would have meant the end of Bleach...not to mention it would be incredibly stupid, ever more stupid than what he did -_-

    3: Have you even thought about the emiotions which play in that situation? It is more than normal that he wouldn't have attacked him in one blow or acted different (I don't say it was smart) as that would not be...satisfying. After all the things he has done to them he wants him at least aware that he died. If he just would have killed him instantly the pain he would have felt would be nothing compared to the hell they went through.
    If all the battles in all the manga's would be like you describedt this situation, I would stop reading them as they would be completely boring and dull. It needs that kind of emotional touch.

    4: I completely disagree on the thing you said about Ichigo. What do you want him to do then? Explaining his shikai/bankai/hollow powers...the same Shinji did but on whom you comment it was stupid? Well Ichigo is trying to do that. You do realize if he doesn't attack instantly, Aizen can release his shikai and then all is lost -_- There is one thing Ichigo can't do and that his giving Aizen time.
    You completely contradict yourself in this matter, I would have done exactly the same as he doesn't have another option atm!

    5: Apparantly you're under the assumption that this is the final battle, as a ot of people The chances on that are almost zero if you think about it. I predicted along ago that Tousen would be defeated or would die in this battle and that Gin and Aizen would need to redraw...and it looks a lot like it. Aizen's role is far from over, so you can be sure he will not die here. Though he will be forced away or something.
    your right as well but shinji explaining his powers was pretty unnecessary if u ask me we could of seen them while in motion like he attacks and aizen makes a block but its in the opposite way and then explain his powers not before the fight =\
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    lol the whole explaining powers thing is stupid... although you do have to consider that if the characters didnt self narrate certain parts of the story/ relevant info - we'd all be clueless to 90% of the powers of characters zampacto's

    i mean aizen could have just stfu about his abilities and every1 would have been like wtf he wouldnt have had to fight at all could have just poked every1 with his sword in there sleep ...

    so in that respect its not a singular characters fault but the way in which the manga relays info to its reader that ur unhappy with...

    and whilst i dislike that aswell...there are bigger faults in bleach that need to be adressed....

    namely that little shit toshiro dieing at some point :drive:
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walker View Post
    could have just poked every1 with his sword in there sleep ...
    best reply to that gets a rep... wasnt meant to be a sexual pun or anything but il take credit :confused:
     
         

  10. #10
    Flaw need to visit me. GYM's Avatar
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    WHy create the second thread?

    I agree with you anyway
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Its thesame in all the mangas,havent you gotten used to it? >D
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    I would think Shinji had a good reason for telling him and if not it was a dumb move. I think telling him would make it hard for Aizen to win if Shinji had the ability to activate and deactivate up and down or left is right at will.

    For example:

    If Shinji attacked Aizen's right side he would guard left using what he was told him but if Shinji deactivates right and left before attacking Aizen would take a hit on the right side. Unless the scent that Sakanade puts out changes Shinji would be able switch it up at any time and make it a guessing game.

    Also Sakanade just might have more that one shikai ability...kind of like Shunsui or Tousen.
     
         

  13. #13
    Flaw need to visit me. GYM's Avatar
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Uh yeah dude, Shunsui's zanpaktou has like 5 Shikai abilities -_-
     
         

  14. #14
    Kuroi Honoo's Avatar
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharingan09 View Post
    Good read. Though your wrong on him being the worst Captains

    I mean I've read some threads related to this Shinji being retarded/stupid. Though you don't realize what he is capable of. Yes, he single handedly destroyed Grimmjow. Now Aizen might take what Shinji said and thinks he might have won the battle because Shinji told him the abilities about his Zanpakutou, but we don't really know what those abilities are. Yes, they turn all the directions backwards, but what else. Surely, if Shinji was a Captain, don't you think he might be a really strong one. Now the situation with Hiyori, that cocky/not-taking-things-seriously act of Shinji , might just be a cover up so his feelings or emotions won't get in the way.

    I don't know but to say Shinji is stupid outragious.
    Well thank you but chotto, I never said he was being the worst captain. Where did I ever say that in my post? Can you please point it out to me? It isn't so much that I don't realize what he is capable of but more like I just expressed what I got from the chapter in a non-factual way. I never said that because of Shinji's chatting that he is done for good. I just simply laid out what the chapter gave me. Of course, the manga can make an about face and Shinji for example not even be wounded. I agree that Shinji is powerful as he was a former captain and things might not appear as they seemed, like how you described his attitude may be a possible reason for. I just didn't like the fact that he yapped about his weapon and seemingly underestimation of Aizen. If that was directed at me, then you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say because I never said he was stupid either. I actually think Shinji is a great character and that's why I was disappointed in the first place to see how this chapter unfolded.
     
         

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ryuusaki's Avatar
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    It's a well-established franchise with, like the other two ongoing series, stupid milking potential. There are several ways to analyze how Tite wants to display his characters. The way I see it, all Kuroi is trying to point out is how the chapter made everything look as though the series lose a lot of common sense, focusing solely on Ichigo standing in the middle of a shining light, being the hero avenging everyone because they're too shit to do the work themselves. If somebody went and killed your family, and at the brink of getting your revenge, some other guy comes in on his shiny white horse, finishing off your long sought revenge merely because he's a protagonist?

    Besides - If you were at the standoff with your greatest nemesis, would you spoil your every secret just because it'd make you look confident?
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    Sorry but I disagree, more or less, completely with you.

    1: Why are you posting links of Mangastreams while we have the chapter here? NarutoBase.net - Bleach Manga Chapter 387 - Page 1
    Well, honestly speaking, I just didn't check because Mangastream usually uploads there manga chapters earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    2: You think way to rational to actually read manga's in my opinion Yes he could have attacked Aizen and cut off his head in one motion or could have shut his mouth, but that would have meant the end of Bleach...not to mention it would be incredibly stupid, ever more stupid than what he did -_-
    Really? What I got from all the explanations in your post, were just the same to me. Listen, I never said anything of the sort like Shinji needed to kill him in an instant and end of Bleach. All I was trying to say was that it just didn't make a lot of sense for a former captain like Shinji to seemingly underestimate him by shooting his mouth off about his katana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    3: Have you even thought about the emiotions which play in that situation? It is more than normal that he wouldn't have attacked him in one blow or acted different (I don't say it was smart) as that would not be...satisfying. After all the things he has done to them he wants him at least aware that he died. If he just would have killed him instantly the pain he would have felt would be nothing compared to the hell they went through.
    If all the battles in all the manga's would be like you describedt this situation, I would stop reading them as they would be completely boring and dull. It needs that kind of emotional touch.
    Chotto, I thought you said I took reading manga rationally? It seems as though rationalize as well saying "(I don't say it was smart)" you tell me that I rationalize but so do you. Wow your painting a whole different picture and putting words in my mouth. I said that Shinji should have not taken him so lightly and leaked valuable information. I agree every manga needs emotion and it seemed like Shinji didn't really display any when he went up against Aizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    4: I completely disagree on the thing you said about Ichigo. What do you want him to do then? Explaining his shikai/bankai/hollow powers...the same Shinji did but on whom you comment it was stupid? Well Ichigo is trying to do that. You do realize if he doesn't attack instantly, Aizen can release his shikai and then all is lost -_- There is one thing Ichigo can't do and that is giving Aizen time.
    You completely contradict yourself in this matter, I would have done exactly the same as he doesn't have another option atm!
    No, I never said the way Shinji handled himself was stupid but rather nonsensical. I have not contradicted myself because I never said that he should have explained his powers to Aizen as did Shinji. I don't necessarily disagree with what you say about Ichigo but what I said was that he was still inexperienced and charging in like that might not have been the best thing to do as you could see how Aizen in the next panel was already realizing the situation and how much more powerful and skilled he has gotten over the elasped time. In other words, he rushed in recklessly where he could have instead (for example) went into the extremely new powerful hollow form and used a Getsuga Tenshou just from where he stood rather than just thrusting to strike at him in his Bankai release. Okay, but has he released his Shikai to Shinji yet? (If I'm not mistaken).

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    5: Apparantly you're under the assumption that this is the final battle, as a lot of people The chances on that are almost zero if you think about it. I predicted long ago that Tousen would be defeated or would die in this battle and that Gin and Aizen would need to redraw...and it looks a lot like it. Aizen's role is far from over, so you can be sure he will not die here. Though he will be forced away or something.
    Again, you have misinterpreted what I've been trying to say. I just said that either Shinji or Toushirou should have the right to end Aizen's life (whenever that may be), and not that "this is the final battle" as you said. Now, I hope that I didn't come out like an ass because those were not my intentions but you did say that I said untruthful things and you misunderstood somethings out of my post.
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharingan09 View Post
    I completely agree with you Cali. He will be forced to withdraw, at some point. The Vasto Lordes still need to play there part in this as well.
    Chotto matte, if this is your opinion that's fine but this definitely isn't a confirmed fact yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by GYM View Post
    WHy create the second thread?
    I did this one because I just had to let out steam and besides the other person that created a similar thread talked very poorly about Shinji which not at all were my intentions but rather Tite just didn't make any sense in how he depicted Shinji a former captain against Aizen in a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by GYM View Post
    I agree with you anyway
    Arigatou ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesh View Post
    Its thesame in all the mangas,havent you gotten used to it? >D
    No, it is not the same in all of the manga. Seriously, (for example: D.Gray-man) when Kanda activated Mugen against Skin, did Kanda say "This is my anti-akuma weapon Mugen it has six illusions and the first one I will unleash on you is Hakka Touru" So if this had alternately happened then he is letting Skin know what to expect from his innocence.
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuusaki View Post
    It's a well-established franchise with, like the other two ongoing series, stupid milking potential. There are several ways to analyze how Tite wants to display his characters. The way I see it, all Kuroi is trying to point out is how the chapter made everything look as though the series lose a lot of common sense, focusing solely on Ichigo standing in the middle of a shining light, being the hero avenging everyone because they're too shit to do the work themselves. If somebody went and killed your family, and at the brink of getting your revenge, some other guy comes in on his shiny white horse, finishing off your long sought revenge merely because he's a protagonist?

    Besides - If you were at the standoff with your greatest nemesis, would you spoil your every secret just because it'd make you look confident?
    Arigatou for expressing your post in the way you did by using a different approach but in the same aspect as to what I was trying to get out. A deserved rep for you ^^
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Just looking at both of them superficiouly though, KyokaSuigetsu has the abiltiy to control all five senses completely, what Aizen refers to as 'Absolute Hypnosis'.

    We could assume that Sakanade's ability has not been fully divulged by Shinji, it could be a bluff on his part, he could only be partly revealing his Zanpaktou's ability in order to try and fool Aizen.

    This being said, once you have seen KyokaSuigetsu being released, you fall under the Absolute Hypnosis, and since Shinji has, we can't really trust anything that he thinks he is seeing.

    As Unohana said, Ichigo is really the person who hasn't seen KyokaSuigetsu released, if I remember correctly, we haven't been told if Yoruichi or Kisuke have seen the released form of KyokaSuigetsu, it would be intereting to find out.
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Honoo View Post




    No, it is not the same in all of the manga. Seriously, (for example: D.Gray-man) when Kanda activated Mugen against Skin, did Kanda say "This is my anti-akuma weapon Mugen it has six illusions and the first one I will unleash on you is Hakka Touru" So if this had alternately happened then he is letting Skin know what to expect from his innocence.


    Yeah, you're right :D

    Did Pain tell JIraya or Naruto or Konoha: These are my 6 bodies but they aren't real, the first controls gravity, second summons, third revives, 4th is mechanical and I have a REAL 7th body somewhere near, more precisely inside that tree made of paper, but it doesn't matter since you don't have a chance anyway!!
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by GYM View Post
    Yeah, you're right :D

    Did Pain tell JIraya or Naruto or Konoha: These are my 6 bodies but they aren't real, the first controls gravity, second summons, third revives, 4th is mechanical and I have a REAL 7th body somewhere near, more precisely inside that tree made of paper, but it doesn't matter since you don't have a chance anyway!!
    Arigatou yo for agreeing/acknowledging the point I was trying to make.
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Lets not forget Shinji still has a bankai......
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    but then so does Aizen?
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: Tite Kubo's mistake or Shinji's personal downfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fourth View Post
    but then so does Aizen?
    So true, I only wanted to post Shinji's actions, in particular his Zanpakutou lesson which did not make any sense especially as the former Gobantai Taichou. He might have his reasons and if indeed then I'm happy that he does and would expect that out of a captain. I hope that it is true and he is trying to fool Aizen in the long run. Shinji has yet to release Bankai and neither has Aizen so hopefully the slash he dealt to Shinji was not fatal and he can continue they can continue to fight. We have all seen Ichigo dominate almost every antagonist and I think its time for someone else (Shinji) to get the limelight even though he isn't the main protagonist. Although, it would make the most sense that Shinji be the one to eliminate Aizen for masterminding the hollowfication dilemma they underwent.
     
         

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