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  1. #81
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    He is not that powerful yet, he was supposed to be dead already, remember? Bee raped him, but team taka saved him 3 times, as if his powers wasnt enough haxor, he got more 2 powerup characters to help him, otherwise he would be dead by now, but that would messup the plot.
    So, Narutos life being spared multiple times via Kyuubis chakra and overpowered Sage Mode isnt deserving of the "haxor" label? (as you love to say) Sasuke gathered Taka for a reason. They served to help him in furthering his goals/in battle if needed. Besides, when Sasuke fought Kirabi, he was not experienced enough to face him and was why he came close to death twice over but Sasuke did not have any intel on Kirabi so he had to work with what he had. Although, when he used the emotional Amaterasu, Kirabi seemed defeated if not for the opportunity given with the severed tentacle. Not to mention, whenever an Akatsuki member goes off to capture a Jinchuuriki they lose the option to kill.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    Bee "finished" him, but then karin was there to heal him, then Bee did it again and Jugo was there to heal him and bee just stood still watching he being healed, then KB was about to "kill" him again, then Suigetsu saved his ass, yeah right, so yes, he is powerful and he wont die, just because the writer doesnt want Sasuke to die.
    That is pretty biased seeing as both Naruto/Sasuke are main characters in this manga. The manga is based on the two of them so of course just as Naruto is able to overcome obstacles then Sasuke will indeed as well whether it be with his team, etc. or simply by himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    Wot i believe make ppl "go bias" is because it's so cheap to have ppl around sasuke that keep healing him all the time, yeah i forgot to mention, there is also tobi which is one of sasuke's powerup, tobi just sit around and if some1 is going to kill sasuke, he can just teleport, so it's like cheating, that doesn't make him powerful, only weak, but yet at the same time he is kind powerful, but not at the level that he would take anyone, by what we have seen, he should be dead, but kish doesn't want to let sasuke go.
    There isnt much logic in what you say. For example, you say that Madara is a powerup (what?). If Naruto faced all the opponents Sasuke faced in the Kage summit, can you honestly tell me that he would have come out the victor? In my opinion, Naruto would have had the same trouble if not worse seeing as Madara wouldnt be there to save him. Sasuke being forced into taking on all the Kages/subordinates by himself could pose fatal as it would any other shinobi and besides, his only target was Danzou.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    @Kenshin Himura, I was reading one of your posts and u stated as fact that sasuke have been always more powerful than naruto, this is not true, it's the otherwise, sasuke have been seeking power to surpass naruto, yes in the begin of Naruto, sasuke was always more skilled than naruto, but it was naruto that was saving the day in every mission and sasuke many times asked to himself why naruto was getting stronger and stronger and he wasnt, his 1st goal on team 7 was to surpass naruto, he couldnt, than he left to seek more power.
    Now youre the one stating things as if they are fact. Your quote "but it was naruto that was saving the day in every missio" No he hasnt, Naruto was only able to save everyone with the aid of the Kyuubi. You also are making it seem as if Sasuke and Sakura were worthless and that without Naruto they wouldve always failed but I dont agree with this. A team is exactly as the meaning describes, a number of people organized to function cooperatively as a group. What I observed from the manga was team seven doing exactly that, not just Naruto "saving" the day. Sasuke might have been frustrated that Naruto began to surpass him and he was slowing down which would mean eliminating Itachi would take longer than what he preferred so he chose the quick path to power. With the Ten no Juin he equaled one tailed Naruto and couldve killed him but decided against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    After the time skip, he seemed to have more haxor tecs and speed than naruto, i wouldnt say more powerful... Then naruto become insanely powerful during Pain fight with sage mode, even tobi told sasuke that naruto is more powerful, then sasuke powered up again after Itachi battle, getting another bunch of haxor tecs...
    Listen, they are not "haxor tecs" because he chose the fastest way to power possible thus trained to perfect the Ten no Juin and learned what he could from Orochimaru. In other words, this wasnt meant to be better or surpass Naruto but rather to kill his brother. His Katon/Raiton obviously had elapsed training as Naruto too has trained his Rasengan but he had the screen-time for being the titular character. If you think that Mangekyou is "haxor" then so is how Naruto was able to achieve Sage Mode in such a small amount of time when Jiraiya died having yet to master it. Sasuke does not get "haxor tecs" but rather experience through battling which would explain how his Mangekyou doujutsu are easier to use and improve overall each time they are used (Tsukuyomi being the one needing the most training).

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    So if we assume that kish would let sasuke die in battle, meaning there wont be anyone to heal him when he is near death, then any kage level character could beat sasuke, but he would put up a good fight, the main problem of sasuke is chakra and his hate, though now that is a kind of his new power "hate", though as far as we know he is not YET a host of any beast to access the power through hate, kind like what naruto does when he is mad.
    Okay, if Sasuke is put to face a Kage without Karin or Juugo then the winner could go both ways, we can only opinionate who the victor could be. Remember, Naruto is the main character and will not die so you can apply that same logic to Sasuke as he is essential to the mangas overall gist, a main character and if he dies then Naruto fails and probably will want to commit seppuku.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    imho Sasuke seems to be a weaker version of Itachi, kind like that 30% clone of Itachi, that doesnt mean he is weak, but he is getting stronger and stronger, one day he may surpass Itachi, but Sasuke still lacks of intelligence(because low chakra, he need to use his suttfs better), chakra(if he had alot he wouldnt need much intelligence) and experience.
    It is logical that Sasuke currently would be weaker than Itachi seeing as his brother was older and more experienced with the Mangekyou. Dude, please reread the latest chapter and you will see that Madara himself describes how Sasuke throughout the entire battle was thinking ahead (much like the post timeskip and early timeskip) and was why he was able to defeat him via his intelligence. He also is one of the few people to possess a vast reserve of chakra as seen through every battle he can sustain his doujutsus cost of chakra. What brings him down is mainly the use of Susanoo which severely strains his body after a long period of time. The experience is the only one Ill give you as he does lack as well as Naruto.

    [QUOTE=chakan;1762761]he couldnt beat haku, who did? in the end naruto was the guy who used to save him and sakura.

    Incorrect, as Ive said earlier without the Kyuubi's assistance we cannot say for a fact that he would have come out the victor.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    btw back then, if u read the part of "naruto thought" about the fight u will see that in the last second naruto let sasuke hit him, he gave up on hiting sasuke in the last second, also u need to remember that he only put up a good fight because oru powered up him with the cursed seal, that was when sasuke started to get stronger.
    Well, if you remember Naruto was knocked out by the punch to his chest so if he had instead aimed to punch Sasuke then it would have most definitely resulted in a draw and Naruto was able to put up a good fight because of the Kyuubi.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    ah one last time.

    yup, because naruto is dumb lol sasuke is much more skilled, plus sharingan, though we can't use that logic lee>sasuke>naruto, negi>lee, naruto>negi, u get wot i mean? by that time i could see lee beating sasuke and naruto, he is so dang fast, also neji, i couldnt see neji being able to see through lee's speed, even if he could see just like as sasuke, he wouldnt be fast enough. imho neji > lee = BS its not like i have fav char, but i liked alot lee, also drunken Lee was awesome, next power up for Lee: drunken Lee with 8 Gates.
    Youre logic is poorly used as speed is not everything. Look at the Raikage vs. Sasuke fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    "cursed seal wasn't much of an advantage" haha he used it alot, not an advantage over naruto, but advantage to stay alive, without this he wouldnt be able to fight naruto/kyuubi, that is probably the reason why he is so strong now with his new powers, but naruto is also so haxor with his kyuubi, i didnt like those powers, it would be more cool if each character could develop their unique power in a more balanced way.
    Naruto has indeed used the Kyuubi to stay alive just the same and as Naruto has the Kyuubi/Sage Mode, Sasuke had the Ten no Juin and now Mangekyou. This is what is in their arsenal and even though I dont agree with the Kyuubi/Ten no Juin, Sage Mode/Mangekyou are their own respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    yes, i dont like very much character with god like powers, though i like read/watch, but then blame minato, he was the one who sealed that beast, naruto had it since the begin and the ppl u say that hate sasuke, its probably because his power is being rushed just like the kisame death,
    though i dont see a problem as i mentioned b4, i dont see him as powerful as others see, maybe that is just me, sasuke used to be uber intelligent and very tactical, kind like kakashi and now he just rush in blasting with his new powers, i believe kish could have handled it in a better way without sasuke's need to be healed by others characters, it would be more realistic with his current powers.
    Then Orochimaru should be blamed for giving Sasuke the Ten no Juin. Ever since the Kage summit Sasuke has never been the same rushing in recklessly but it has to do with the fact that he was closing in on one of the people responsible for the massacre. In my opinion the change in his chakra has a role to play in this darker version of Sasuke. It wouldnt make sense for someone who cares about his former/current teams to then feeling nothing for them. Sasuke loves his brother and clan/cared for his former/current team and now ends up acting indifferent towards them? There is definitely something suspicious with it and I believe that it is tied to this cold chakra.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakan View Post
    well lets go far, i believe Shikamaru and Ino could beat him, look Shikamaru could make sasuke stand still and then close his eyes, then sasuke would close his eyes as well, then Ino would go behind sasuke and give him a Sennen Goroshi and a kunai on his head :D
    Again with the poor logic, wasnt Tayuya able to move even though she was caught by the Kagemane no Jutsu? In other words, if she was able to move what can stop Sasuke?
     
         

  2. #82
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    you say people who are really really fast like sage naruto or whatever can't dodge amaterasu? uhhhhhhhhh, the raikage literally side-stepped it....
    All that shows is Kishis poor writing

    because

    Naruto 390 page 17 | One Manga

    "This technique is like Amaterasu, impossible to avoid"

    Personally Kishi is rushing things, especially the 5 kage meeting, and theres a LOT of contradictions Kishi is writing in, and the power ranks are absolutely screwy.

    People winning who shouldnt be etc.
     
         

  3. #83
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    All that shows is Kishis poor writing

    because

    Naruto 390 page 17 | One Manga

    "This technique is like Amaterasu, impossible to avoid"

    Personally Kishi is rushing things, especially the 5 kage meeting, and theres a LOT of contradictions Kishi is writing in, and the power ranks are absolutely screwy.

    People winning who shouldnt be etc.
    but in the naruto world when something cant be done.... its done


    Kisames combo was unbeatable.... and he lost lol
    Itachi was invincible.... and he died
    Hidan cant die... ut he gets blown to bits and buried


    It will be the same with this it can be dodged
     
         

  4. #84
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pervy Sage View Post
    but in the naruto world when something cant be done.... its done


    Kisames combo was unbeatable.... and he lost lol
    Itachi was invincible.... and he died
    Hidan cant die... ut he gets blown to bits and buried


    It will be the same with this it can be dodged
    Your agreeing with my point-it's bad writing.

    Pretty much all "constants" we extrapolate fights on involve a writer who simply shrugs them off and makes the character suddenly bypass the constant.

    Thats shitty writing.

    Its like reading Harry Potter with the constant "voldemort cant hurt you when your mothers blood is protecting you"

    then next book he dies-Just because the author felt like it.


    Here we have Raikage moving faster than sharingan can keep up with

    Naruto 462 page 03 | One Manga

    Here we have Kakashi being told his chidori is too fast for him to handle

    Naruto 240 page 14 | One Manga

    "You cant SEE your enemies counter"

    Then he got the sharingan and he could SEE the counters, therefore, by logic, sharingan can see things that are fast, normal eyes cannot.


    So how is Raikage keeping up with normal eyes that sharingan cannot?
    How is amaterasu suddenly dodgable when weve been told it isnt?


    Even more hilarious is the contradiction on the SAME page

    Naruto 463 page 14 | One Manga

    Raikage dodges

    Then one of his Jounins actually says

    "It ignites whatever hes LOOKING AT"

    well no mr jounin, sasuke just looked at Raikage and hes fine.

    Seriously, the writing is getting REALLY bad
     
         

  5. #85
    Kuroi Honoo's Avatar
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pervy Sage View Post
    Mizukage has her own kg which seems powerful and her subordinates fear her when she threatens kill them
    Even so we havent seen enough of her to determine whether or not she could in fact defeat Sasuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pervy Sage View Post
    Tsuchikage well did you see the jutsu he almost killed sasuke with seemed rather powerful to me but may have problems with mobility
    What I saw was Tsuchikage using Jinton: Genkai Hakuri no Jutsu on a chakra deprived/body strained Sasuke. If Sasuke fought him at full chakra/health we could only then get a better idea of who is more powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pervy Sage View Post
    kakashi's dimention jutsu would kill sasuke
    How can you say this when it has yet to do such a thing as to "kill" someone. For the record in my opinion, Sasuke is more powerful than Kakashi as his current state.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pervy Sage View Post
    madara, who knows, we havnt seen him do anything
    We have seen him do plenty and he could suck up Sasuke as usual though who knows. It could be a dimension never to be seen again. Torune and Fuu supposedly seem as though they are either dead or will simply never be released.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    How exactly is Naruto turning Sasuke into a statue if Sasuke can't absorb Naruto's chakra?

    Anyway, Naruto right now can't stand up to Sasuke's Susanoo or his Tsukuyomi. He could probably dodge Amaterasu. 1 out of 3 ain't enough. Naruto's FRS might be able to damage Susanoo for a short time that Naruto might be able to capitalize on but Sasuke is still mobile and has Taka summons and Susanoo can still Falcon Pawwnch him like Sasuke did against Danzo lol.

    Kakashi, not at his current level. I heard we're supposed to be getting a lot out of him and Sakura and Shikamaru this year from that interview. So hopefully he gets strong enough to be truly worthy of his Hokage status (Hokage in the eyes of the other villages that is and probably soon in Konoha). Hopefully his chakra reserves will grow and we'll see some more of those 1000 jutsu he has or w/e the number was. But right now he can't beat Sasuke.

    Raikage was on par with an incomplete Susanoo so idk how he would be able to take a fully grown bow and arrow wielding monster with Amaterasu shooting out of it if needed.

    Bee could do it if he had to. I think that giant chakra cannon he used in full transformation could break down Susanoo.

    Mizukage, with her KG, would not be enough. The rate at which the weak Susanoo was melting was too slow. A fully formed Susanoo would just crush her.

    Tsuchikage we have no idea what he's capable of. Doubt his Jinton could damage Susanoo.

    Madara could warp Sasuke away but I don't think he could kill him...

    Zetsu might be able to surprise Sasuke with his spore attack but Sasuke would just do Chidori Nagashi and shock Zetsu to death.
    Even though you either do not care for and or dislike Sasuke, I am pleased to see people like you who can at the very least acknowledge a character let alone give logical facts. There should be people more like you on this forum and any other forum for that matter ^.^

    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    you say people who are really really fast like sage naruto or whatever can't dodge amaterasu? uhhhhhhhhh, the raikage literally side-stepped it....
    twistedlink was LITERALLY describing how Narutos speed differed from a Kami like speed for example that of Raikage, how Amaterasu works and how it can be cast upon Sage Mode Naruto.
     
         

  6. #86
    Matador de passarinhos chakan's Avatar
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Honoo View Post

    a crap load of tex lol
    ?
    sure > all
    lmao ok poor logic, your views are so biased that u fail to detect sarcasm. :P:
     
         

  7. #87
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    actualy sasuke can lose to anyone...if kishi wants :D

    like Sakura with old hang vs. Sasori
    Naruto vs. Pain

    and so on... long epic fail list.....the problem is that Kishi loves Sasuke like his own son
    so until naruto meets him in the end (if) sasuke > all

    come on if Kishi kills sasuke there will be mass emo suicide in the world
     
         

  8. #88
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    Your agreeing with my point-it's bad writing.

    Pretty much all "constants" we extrapolate fights on involve a writer who simply shrugs them off and makes the character suddenly bypass the constant.

    Thats shitty writing.

    Its like reading Harry Potter with the constant "voldemort cant hurt you when your mothers blood is protecting you"

    then next book he dies-Just because the author felt like it.


    Here we have Raikage moving faster than sharingan can keep up with

    Naruto 462 page 03 | One Manga

    Here we have Kakashi being told his chidori is too fast for him to handle

    Naruto 240 page 14 | One Manga

    "You cant SEE your enemies counter"

    Then he got the sharingan and he could SEE the counters, therefore, by logic, sharingan can see things that are fast, normal eyes cannot.


    So how is Raikage keeping up with normal eyes that sharingan cannot?
    How is amaterasu suddenly dodgable when weve been told it isnt?


    Even more hilarious is the contradiction on the SAME page

    Naruto 463 page 14 | One Manga

    Raikage dodges

    Then one of his Jounins actually says

    "It ignites whatever hes LOOKING AT"

    well no mr jounin, sasuke just looked at Raikage and hes fine.

    Seriously, the writing is getting REALLY bad
    Naruto 462 page 03 | One Manga

    Raikage can move faster than the Sharingan, or any eye, can follow. That's why after Sasuke tried Amaterasu, he completely lost track of Raikage and Raikage was able to appear to the side/behind Sasuke and smack him hard.

    That's Raikage's ability. The Raiton no Yoroi makes his synapses fire at the speed of light so he has the best reflexes and raw speed out of anyone in the Narutoverse. Have you ever tried following a lightning bolt? It touches the ground before you even notice it started. That's pretty much Raikage.

    It may be poor writing but the Sharingan is still doing its job. The eye muscles that pull on the eye and change the direction its looking can only contract so quickly.
     
         

  9. #89
    Senior Member Sennin Jinchuuriki's Avatar
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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    It has to be said that in Sasuke's current state there is only a few guys alive who can beat him. Most probably Madara he dodged Amaterasu that was activated automatically outta nowhere. His space time tech i guess is one his MS special abilities just like Kakashi can use that Dimensional wrap stuff. I said this is a special ability of the MS because we haven't seen Itachi use it and Sasuke too. Next one that comes to the mind is Killerbee now he has also gotten stronger by having Samehada and last time Sasuke wasn't so strong as now but Killerbee was struggling because it was four on one. I would like to see them fight again. Lastly Naruto the main character he will definitely train or something to catch up with Sasuke but even now if he fights Sasuke he will push him to the limit but will lose unless using Kyuubi's chakra.

    However some guys who recently were killed or not so long ago like the fourth maybe able to beat Sasuke. The first name that comes in mind is Pain he was unfortunate to fight against the main character and even as a Naruto fan I will admit it. Next Itachi he never showed his TRUE strength. Thirdly I believe Jiraiya would have been able to beat Sasuke although I am pretty sure many will believe the first two names can but Jiraiya IMO also could beat Sasuke. These three guys if alive would have given Sasuke a extremely hard time especially PAIN.
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Naruto 462 page 03 | One Manga

    Raikage can move faster than the Sharingan, or any eye, can follow. That's why after Sasuke tried Amaterasu, he completely lost track of Raikage and Raikage was able to appear to the side/behind Sasuke and smack him hard.

    That's Raikage's ability. The Raiton no Yoroi makes his synapses fire at the speed of light so he has the best reflexes and raw speed out of anyone in the Narutoverse. Have you ever tried following a lightning bolt? It touches the ground before you even notice it started. That's pretty much Raikage.

    It may be poor writing but the Sharingan is still doing its job. The eye muscles that pull on the eye and change the direction its looking can only contract so quickly.
    lol, dude synapses fire super fast anyway in our brains, I dont see how that can suddenly make his eyes follow his movement.

    If you run at 500mph you need the reflexes (eyes) to dodge things in your way.

    Every other characters eyes cannot keep up.

    Synapses are brain speed, not eye speed, your eyes and brain need to be linked.

    What youre saying is Raikage is running a Multi core processor on an old motherboard that doesnt support it.

    His brain can fire synapses as fast as he wants, but how come his eyes can keep up??

    synapses have nothing to do with eyes.

    somehow his "normal" eyes can see speeds others' cant, and synapses have nothing to do with eyes.

    Fair enough, Kishi isnt a science geek, but a simple google would let him understand.... -_-'
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Also mass super fast synapses is commonly called an epileptic fit, it doesnt make people run super fast lol
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    lol, dude synapses fire super fast anyway in our brains, I dont see how that can suddenly make his eyes follow his movement.

    If you run at 500mph you need the reflexes (eyes) to dodge things in your way.

    Every other characters eyes cannot keep up.

    Synapses are brain speed, not eye speed, your eyes and brain need to be linked.

    What youre saying is Raikage is running a Multi core processor on an old motherboard that doesnt support it.

    His brain can fire synapses as fast as he wants, but how come his eyes can keep up??

    synapses have nothing to do with eyes.

    somehow his "normal" eyes can see speeds others' cant, and synapses have nothing to do with eyes.

    Fair enough, Kishi isnt a science geek, but a simple google would let him understand.... -_-'
    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    Also mass super fast synapses is commonly called an epileptic fit, it doesnt make people run super fast lol
    You're right, if it only increased the rate at which his synapses fired it wouldn't help. But...

    Obviously Raikage's Raiton no Yoroi increases the rate of contraction of all of his muscles including his eye muscles by a lot. That's the only explanation. I'm fairly positive that he trains pretty hard as evidenced by his large muscular frame. So it makes sense that his training would encompass forcibly making his eyes and the rest of his muslces keep up with the speed at which his brain could process information.
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Here's some science that I put inside a spoiler because it's kind of boring but corrects some stuff, but it's all good . Please know this much though, reaction time is a very poor indication of neural processing let alone insight towards a neural substrate, evidenced by current neuroscience research.



    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    Also mass super fast synapses is commonly called an epileptic fit, it doesnt make people run super fast lol
    This is incorrect. Uncontrolled excitatory neural activity is what is considered epileptic. Fast synapses simply refer to the rate of pre-synaptic vesicle release and/or post-synaptic integration of the change in post-synaptic conductance. Epilepsy tends to be sustained by synchronous reverberatory neural activity. For this you actually need lots of slow synapses too; otherwise, reverberatory activity likely could not be achieved/sustained.

    ----------------

    The rate of neural signal transduction from the visual portion of the electro-magnetic spectrum to the visual cortex is fairly constant. If the Sharingan is doing anything realistic it's changing the retinal cells (Not really a Naruto Neuroscientist). At the fovea, the central point of view, humans have a trade off between resolution and and reaction speed. In general, people trade off towards clarity and color. Given it's a mutation I would guess that somehow the Uchiha have mutated photoreceptors and peripheral sensory cells allowing faster processing while maintaining or even increasing visual clarity at the point of focus.

    If anything, you'd want to increase slower synapses (i.e. long decay constant, it's exponential) for sustained firing as the majority of visual processing is done by recurrent cortical synaptic interactions and not sensory areas.

    In theory, and it's only theory (published), but one would want neural networks operating on "the edge of chaos." Regular firing networks respond slowly to input whereas chaotic ones react most rapidly. The key is to have a connectivity to train the output with a feedback to/from the chaotic network so it's activity doesn't diverge.

    Finally, for fast reflexes you need an ideal combination of quick twitch neuromuscular junctions with heavy amounts of neurotransmitter but also -ases that degrade the neurotransmitter. If you toss these raw ideas together you can get a brain/body that with or without the Sharingan can operate at ridiculous speeds.


    Essentially, there is no internal literary reason that sage mode nor the lightning shield, which are both acts of fiction couldn't work. It's unfair to ask Kishimoto to get doctorates in science, engineering, mathematics, philosophy, etc. If we apply science it's only in interpretation/inference and not application to what could/couldn't happen.

    Also, more on point, until I see it, I don't know that Ameratsu can burn through Naruto's sage mode shield. Even if we assume he can't dodge the Ameratsu, and he gets hit, will the Ameratsu burn him? Nature chakra is kind of its own thing that we know very little about. Thus, in theory, sage mode could offer two modes to counter Ameratsu. Whatever nature chakra is burning (if it can burn) could simply be sloughed off.

    -------------

    Either way, Killer Bee has 7 tentacles and nice new sword. Let Sasuke fight him. People can debate if Samehada puts out Ameratsu, etc.
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Here's some science that I put inside a spoiler because it's kind of boring but corrects some stuff, but it's all good . Please know this much though, reaction time is a very poor indication of neural processing let alone insight towards a neural substrate, evidenced by current neuroscience research.





    This is incorrect. Uncontrolled excitatory neural activity is what is considered epileptic. Fast synapses simply refer to the rate of pre-synaptic vesicle release and/or post-synaptic integration of the change in post-synaptic conductance. Epilepsy tends to be sustained by synchronous reverberatory neural activity. For this you actually need lots of slow synapses too; otherwise, reverberatory activity likely could not be achieved/sustained.

    ----------------

    The rate of neural signal transduction from the visual portion of the electro-magnetic spectrum to the visual cortex is fairly constant. If the Sharingan is doing anything realistic it's changing the retinal cells (Not really a Naruto Neuroscientist). At the fovea, the central point of view, humans have a trade off between resolution and and reaction speed. In general, people trade off towards clarity and color. Given it's a mutation I would guess that somehow the Uchiha have mutated photoreceptors and peripheral sensory cells allowing faster processing while maintaining or even increasing visual clarity at the point of focus.

    If anything, you'd want to increase slower synapses (i.e. long decay constant, it's exponential) for sustained firing as the majority of visual processing is done by recurrent cortical synaptic interactions and not sensory areas.

    In theory, and it's only theory (published), but one would want neural networks operating on "the edge of chaos." Regular firing networks respond slowly to input whereas chaotic ones react most rapidly. The key is to have a connectivity to train the output with a feedback to/from the chaotic network so it's activity doesn't diverge.

    Finally, for fast reflexes you need an ideal combination of quick twitch neuromuscular junctions with heavy amounts of neurotransmitter but also -ases that degrade the neurotransmitter. If you toss these raw ideas together you can get a brain/body that with or without the Sharingan can operate at ridiculous speeds.


    Essentially, there is no internal literary reason that sage mode nor the lightning shield, which are both acts of fiction couldn't work. It's unfair to ask Kishimoto to get doctorates in science, engineering, mathematics, philosophy, etc. If we apply science it's only in interpretation/inference and not application to what could/couldn't happen.

    Also, more on point, until I see it, I don't know that Ameratsu can burn through Naruto's sage mode shield. Even if we assume he can't dodge the Ameratsu, and he gets hit, will the Ameratsu burn him? Nature chakra is kind of its own thing that we know very little about. Thus, in theory, sage mode could offer two modes to counter Ameratsu. Whatever nature chakra is burning (if it can burn) could simply be sloughed off.

    -------------

    Either way, Killer Bee has 7 tentacles and nice new sword. Let Sasuke fight him. People can debate if Samehada puts out Ameratsu, etc.
    Nice! Its always fun to try to apply scientific fact to fiction like Naruto. But in the end its nothing more than a guess. I like how you went in depth about the possible mutations of the Sharingan.

    I'm no scientist but I can understand most of what you were saying except for this: What did you mean by -ases that degrade the neurotransmitters and why would one need them for speed? From my understanding, -ases are enzymes which increase the rate of chemical reactions, and if the specific -ases you're talking about are to degrade the transmitters... I just don't get why you said they are necessary...
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Nice! Its always fun to try to apply scientific fact to fiction like Naruto. But in the end its nothing more than a guess. I like how you went in depth about the possible mutations of the Sharingan.

    I'm no scientist but I can understand most of what you were saying except for this: What did you mean by -ases that degrade the neurotransmitters and why would one need them for speed? From my understanding, -ases are enzymes which increase the rate of chemical reactions, and if the specific -ases you're talking about are to degrade the transmitters... I just don't get why you said they are necessary...
    I put it below. -ases are just any ol protein enzyme, it's kind of a generic terminology.


    The main reason that proteases (i.e. proteins that break down other proteins) are so necessary is that neurotransmitters must be broken down and recycled, then to be reused.

    If say, a neurotransmitter is released to bind to a post-synaptic muscle, but can't be removed from the junction, that muscle is continuously firing, producing tetanus. This is what several nerve toxins do to people, causing horrible reactions. If this is done within the brain say using an intra-cranial application of Ibotenic acid, then the cell is stimulated for so long that it lyses due to an unstoppable build up of Ca2+, which occurs with cell activation.

    For speed, you want these here because multiple muscles must produce sequential transient movements during say running. If you don't remove the neurotransmitter, then you'd just stiffen up. If however you could have a rapid recyclement of transmitter, then you can have the type of dynamic distribution of muscular activation the brain sends. Basically, I'm just saying to make the process of recyclement the brain normally uses go even faster.

    That's sort of the explanation that I hope balances the line of enough information.


    Peace
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    *looks at massive epic long posts*

    Dudes..........what are you guys talking about?
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Rite Now Tha Only Person Dat Could Prolly Beat Him Isssss Himself, Simple As Dat
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    you say people who are really really fast like sage naruto or whatever can't dodge amaterasu? uhhhhhhhhh, the raikage literally side-stepped it....
    he was literally waiting for ameterasu to appear and gathering his chakra, and he used shunshin to dodge it
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Tobi/Madara can beat him. Fools, why like nobody here except for few people mentioned him. Sasuke could do nothing to him, because Tobi was about to kill him when he was going to Konoha.
     
         

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    Re: Who can beat Sasuke with his current strength?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danzou View Post
    Tobi/Madara can beat him. Fools, why like nobody here except for few people mentioned him. Sasuke could do nothing to him, because Tobi was about to kill him when he was going to Konoha.
    We don't know if he can beat him because we don't know his full power and we haven't seen him really do anything.

    Madara wasn't about to kill Sasuke. He said if you disobey me I will kill you but that could just be a bluff. Jiraiya said he would kill Itachi and Kisame. Kakashi brought out a Raikiri like he was gonna kill Orochimaru. Doesn't mean they could've done that. I'm almost certain they couldn't have. So until we see do something amazing besides his haxx teleport ability, I'm gonna leave it as a question mark.
     
         

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