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  1. #76
    Molten Dragon AGoodBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Itachi View Post
    Do you realize what you just said?

    Hidan can move with broken bones? If his leg is broken in half, he can walk on it? You know as well as I do that makes no sense.

    Kakuzu's Fuuton blast is no where near the level of Hirudora. Don't even try to argue this, it was nowhere the same size and they don't do the same thing. Hirudora is pressurized air. Fuuton is for cutting and slashing. They are NOT the same thing.

    Gai's punches easily are in the 8-10 ton range. Smashing a concrete wall with only your fist (effortlessly, mind you) implies that he can do even more.

    Even if they only did 3-5 tons of force, the principle stands. Asakujaku provides hundreds of punches all with concentrated power that are FAR beyond his base punches, the same ones that smashed a concrete wall with no effort.

    Kisame's overall durability > Hidan's. Hidan will be smashed to broken bones, and will be incapacitated.

    Not to mention Gai is so fast Hidan can't hit him, or see him. Gai's base speed rivals the Body Flicker Jutsu.

    Asakujaku > wires and bombtags, the same thing that took Hidan apart.
    It makes no sense for a normal person. Kakuzu stitches hidans limbs back all the time. Are you suggesting kakuzu stitches back bone/gives him new ones. When he broke his femur to the point that asthma couldn't walk but he could, what happened there? When he had two swords through his chest but could breathe, what happened there? For that matter, when he was beheaded and should be bleeding out/be unconscious because he no longer has a heart pumping blood and no more blood is going his head, why was he still able to talk? None of that makes a grain of anatomical sense either. Unless you can explain how he can do that, I don't really need to know how he somehow moves with broken bones. For all we know he has instantaneous healing which would explain the immortality. Kakuzu's futon is pressurized air. It creates cut and pressurized damage. Hirudora only creates pressurized damage. In fact, kakuzu's attack is more deadly since it'd rip your skin apart and break bones while guy just breaks bones. Hirudora didn't kill kisame nor did it break susano'o, why you believe it'd 'blow hid an up' is far beyond me. I don't mean any offence, but guy himself says his fighting style is to break bone. Its not to dismember. A lot of people are adding impossible feat to him. In fact, you all assume he's even as strong as a rai ton cloaked raikage

    Cars weigh about 2tons. Its more illogical that guy can punch 5x the weight of a car than hid an moving on broken bones. Karate experts break blocks all the time but don't punch with even 1 ton of force, so there's that also.

    Concrete and human body is different. Concrete breaks easier because its so rigid and has almost no room for expansion. Any sort of deformity breaks bonds apart and forms cracks which lead to it breaking. Human body is much more flexible and stresses a lot to absorb impact. In any case, a sledge hammer doesn't cut a slab of beef unless its already extremely tenderized. You misinterpret the scan of hid an being cut by wires (which is like being cut up by scalpels) for something else

    Nothing suggests that. Hid an has taken as much, if not more damage than kisame with 0 sign of injury.

    His scyth is designed to have increased width to better chances of drawing blood. Guy has to always come inside scyth range to attack. Hidans a taijutsu specialist also and that's the only thing he uses to flat out assume guy is such a taijutsu god that he completely outclasses another taijutsu master - capable of fodderizing asuma - is beyond ridiculous. If gai is that far beyond Asama then Asama shouldn't even be a jounin. Then there's the fact that guy has no Intel so has no need to flicker from the start. He can easily be overwhelmed before he gets into gear.

    The wires were made to cut ( that's why they indeed cut hid an up), asaka is blunt force designed to crush. It doesn't matter how much ≥ wires it is. Hid an isn't held in place with wires while constant explosions are going off, he's in a state where he can bounce around so his skin can absorb impact and his skin can deform freely so he doesn't explode. If what you're saying is true then there's be a pile of limbs everywhere anytime a car hit a pedestrian. Most times their skull just bursts open because the hit the hood and pavement. But, then again, that assumes Bai can punch with the force of a 2ton car moving in excess of 40mph.
     
         

  2. #77
    Senior Member Booker's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by AGoodBoy View Post
    It makes no sense for a normal person. Kakuzu stitches hidans limbs back all the time. Are you suggesting kakuzu stitches back bone/gives him new ones. When he broke his femur to the point that asthma couldn't walk but he could, what happened there? When he had two swords through his chest but could breathe, what happened there? For that matter, when he was beheaded and should be bleeding out/be unconscious because he no longer has a heart pumping blood and no more blood is going his head, why was he still able to talk? None of that makes a grain of anatomical sense either. Unless you can explain how he can do that, I don't really need to know how he somehow moves with broken bones. For all we know he has instantaneous healing which would explain the immortality. Kakuzu's futon is pressurized air. It creates cut and pressurized damage. Hirudora only creates pressurized damage. In fact, kakuzu's attack is more deadly since it'd rip your skin apart and break bones while guy just breaks bones. Hirudora didn't kill kisame nor did it break susano'o, why you believe it'd 'blow hid an up' is far beyond me. I don't mean any offence, but guy himself says his fighting style is to break bone. Its not to dismember. A lot of people are adding impossible feat to him. In fact, you all assume he's even as strong as a rai ton cloaked raikage

    Cars weigh about 2tons. Its more illogical that guy can punch 5x the weight of a car than hid an moving on broken bones. Karate experts break blocks all the time but don't punch with even 1 ton of force, so there's that also.

    Concrete and human body is different. Concrete breaks easier because its so rigid and has almost no room for expansion. Any sort of deformity breaks bonds apart and forms cracks which lead to it breaking. Human body is much more flexible and stresses a lot to absorb impact. In any case, a sledge hammer doesn't cut a slab of beef unless its already extremely tenderized. You misinterpret the scan of hid an being cut by wires (which is like being cut up by scalpels) for something else

    Nothing suggests that. Hid an has taken as much, if not more damage than kisame with 0 sign of injury.

    His scyth is designed to have increased width to better chances of drawing blood. Guy has to always come inside scyth range to attack. Hidans a taijutsu specialist also and that's the only thing he uses to flat out assume guy is such a taijutsu god that he completely outclasses another taijutsu master - capable of fodderizing asuma - is beyond ridiculous. If gai is that far beyond Asama then Asama shouldn't even be a jounin. Then there's the fact that guy has no Intel so has no need to flicker from the start. He can easily be overwhelmed before he gets into gear.

    The wires were made to cut ( that's why they indeed cut hid an up), asaka is blunt force designed to crush. It doesn't matter how much ≥ wires it is. Hid an isn't held in place with wires while constant explosions are going off, he's in a state where he can bounce around so his skin can absorb impact and his skin can deform freely so he doesn't explode. If what you're saying is true then there's be a pile of limbs everywhere anytime a car hit a pedestrian. Most times their skull just bursts open because the hit the hood and pavement. But, then again, that assumes Bai can punch with the force of a 2ton car moving in excess of 40mph.
    I'm not going to waste time writing an enourmous paragraph you'll just discredit.

    - Hidan can't move on broken limbs. It makes absolutely no sense for him to walk on a leg that is broke in half. It's impossible physically. If Hidan's skull is punched into his spine, he will be incapacitated.

    - Kakuzu's Fuuton was nowhere as big as Hirudora. Hirudora is far more dangerous. Scans stating that Fuuton waa pressurized air?

    - Do you realize how much speed and force it takes to create fireballs from the sheer friction of a punch? It's far beyond a semi-truck moving at 100mph, which is easily 10 tons.

    - Hidan stabbed his leg. Where does it say it broke his femur? It was a stab injury. Big freakin' whoop. Kisame has tanked FAR greater attacks than Hidan has. Hirudora, Asakujaku, etc. Those are certainly far more powerful attacks than being stabbed in the leg and a small Fuuton blast.

    - Gai is a greater Taijutsu expert than Hidan. What's preventing Gai from disarming Hidan with his speed, and using his scythe against him? Gai may be stupid, but dodging a scyte and stealing from your opponent is pretty basic tactic. Gai's speed can't be reacted to by Hidan.

    - You don't seem to understand; with enough speed, I could cut a block of iron in half with a marshmallow. I've already stated that Gai's punches are far beyond a semi truck moving at 100mph, his punches move so fast they create fireballs from the sheer friction. Do you understand how fast that is? It would cut through Hidan. Kisame's durability > Hidan's. Hidan's best tanking feat is a basic fuuton blast. Kisame tanked an enourmous Noon Tiger attack that blew away a forrest.
     
         

  3. #78
    Molten Dragon AGoodBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Itachi View Post
    I'm not going to waste time writing an enourmous paragraph you'll just discredit.

    - Hidan can't move on broken limbs. It makes absolutely no sense for him to walk on a leg that is broke in half. It's impossible physically. If Hidan's skull is punched into his spine, he will be incapacitated.

    - Kakuzu's Fuuton was nowhere as big as Hirudora. Hirudora is far more dangerous. Scans stating that Fuuton waa pressurized air?

    - Do you realize how much speed and force it takes to create fireballs from the sheer friction of a punch? It's far beyond a semi-truck moving at 100mph, which is easily 10 tons.

    - Hidan stabbed his leg. Where does it say it broke his femur? It was a stab injury. Big freakin' whoop. Kisame has tanked FAR greater attacks than Hidan has. Hirudora, Asakujaku, etc. Those are certainly far more powerful attacks than being stabbed in the leg and a small Fuuton blast.

    - Gai is a greater Taijutsu expert than Hidan. What's preventing Gai from disarming Hidan with his speed, and using his scythe against him? Gai may be stupid, but dodging a scyte and stealing from your opponent is pretty basic tactic. Gai's speed can't be reacted to by Hidan.

    - You don't seem to understand; with enough speed, I could cut a block of iron in half with a marshmallow. I've already stated that Gai's punches are far beyond a semi truck moving at 100mph, his punches move so fast they create fireballs from the sheer friction. Do you understand how fast that is? It would cut through Hidan. Kisame's durability > Hidan's. Hidan's best tanking feat is a basic fuuton blast. Kisame tanked an enourmous Noon Tiger attack that blew away a forrest.
    http://www.livescience.com/6040-brut...ans-punch.html
    Check that out. Bone is stronger than concrete. Also, If were going by human logic then you're claiming guy has 10x the punching power of a human. Take note of the part that says the force required to even break bone carries based on different factors. Finally, if you have to scale all of that to accommodate ninja moving faster than the eyes and ignite air, you'd also have to scale the durability since NVfeats are all superhuman. No one can kick someone through concrete, or jump a few hundred meter through the air off sheer power for that matter.


    Yes, and so are the examples I gave yet he did it. You can't say its impossible when he's DONE the impossible. That's a bit redundant. Also, there's my point that hid an potentially possesses instant healing. Hence, that broken bone would instantly heal. The guy never has wounds and constantly gets stabbed.
    The problem here is you keep saying kisame tanked when he was literally 1 shot by the attacks and couldn't continue the fight. That's not tanking. Hid an TANKED an attack said to kill anyone else and completely shred a neighbouring trees. He tanked it to the point where he shuushined above kakashi who was speeding away and actually proceeded to continue the fight. That's tanking. Coming out of a fight completely unscathed.

    Kisame took asak and his clone died. He took hirudora and couldn't move. He took a V2 lariat and almost died - he had to heal the gaping hole in his chest.

    Hidantook kakuzu's attack and prooceded to continue fighting like nothing happened. He took a few hundred paper bombs without suffering a single blow or scratch(limbs cut off by wires). He took a b rank Keaton without even burnt eye brows while asuma got 1st degree burns by extension. Shikamaru could barely get a sword through the skin of his neck. Of coarse hidans body is susceptible to piercing, otherwise he couldn't pierce to kill opponents, but the guy has so much more durability feats then kisame its tidiculous. What you're trying to say is something like ten ten taking a tbb and being on the brink of death and drainage taking a rasenshuriken and walking away like he was never hit, then somehow calling tenten more durable.

    Guy isn't a greater taijutsu expert than hid an... Wtf where did you even get that... Guy is just faster. Your beginning to overestimate guys potential... Do you understand how skilled you have to be to defeat another taijutsu expert who has support, without a single scratch? To the point where they even say precision attacks(punch and kicks) are useless? Also, guys speed isn't as much an advantage as you claim. V1 bee is faster than base guy and kisame was able to effortlessly dodge him. Kisame isn't a taijutsu specialist and only has .5 more speed. Hidan has far better evasion skills and taijutsu prowess than kisame. There's also the fact that hid an was able to catch up to kakashi while he was speeding away from an explosion, showing his speed isn't as bad as claimed.

    Yes, guy lit the air up with friction, but he doesn't punch the opponent. They get hit by air, that's what his attacks do. Notice how guy only caused superficial burns and some internal damage with his asaka - and he did it so fast that it lit the air - while bee blasted a hole in his chest. Notice how bee was the only one ever showing the ability to even break skin. That should already tell you the insignificance of guys attacks against hidan. The fact is, guys never shown a move to break skin let alone dismember.

    That last part is actually impossible. That marshmallow would burn up before it even reached the required speed. Guy would disintegrate himself (possibly what happens in 8 gate) to even attempt something like that. Especially when he does indirect damage.
     
         

  4. #79
    Senior Member elsepa's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by AGoodBoy View Post

    Guy isn't a greater taijutsu expert than hidan
    Wait,what?
     
         

  5. #80
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by elsepa View Post
    Wait,what?
    Hidan is a world renowned tai fighter
     
         

  6. #81
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by dkdankong View Post
    Hidan is a world renowned tai fighter
    Call me when Hidan's speed alone rivals the body flicker technique.

    Gai's taijutsu >>>> Hidan's Taijutsu
     
         

  7. #82
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by dkdankong View Post
    Hidan is a world renowned tai fighter
    Databook stats say Hidan has 4.5 in taijutsu , Gai has 5 and not more because that is the max
     
         

  8. #83
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by elsepa View Post
    Databook stats say Hidan has 4.5 in taijutsu , Gai has 5 and not more because that is the max
    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Itachi View Post
    Call me when Hidan's speed alone rivals the body flicker technique.

    Gai's taijutsu >>>> Hidan's Taijutsu
    Look who can tell a ****ing joke when they see one..

    Goddamn guys how couldn't you see the sarcasm in that clearly he isn't a world renowned tai expert or better than guy wtf
     
         

  9. #84
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by dkdankong View Post
    Look who can tell a ****ing joke when they see one..

    Goddamn guys how couldn't you see the sarcasm in that clearly he isn't a world renowned tai expert or better than guy wtf
    I thought so but you never know , fanboys are capable of saying anything lmao
     
         

  10. #85
    Senior Member dkdankong's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by elsepa View Post
    I thought so but you never know , fanboys are capable of saying anything lmao
    oh dear God i am the farthest thing from a hidan fanboy..
     
         

  11. #86
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    lol dk i thought i lost you there for a sec.. yeah dont see what the big debate is about. even if hidan manages to get some blood, gai's speed and power in the gates wont let him ingest it, draw the symbol and make his move..even if its just gai beat the living shit out of "immortal hidan" he wont have the time to draw the symbol in gais blood and stab himself, let alone stand in the symbol for long even if he manages to draw it. though keeping hidan on his toes and preventing him from making the symbol and executing himself makes it a mid diff fight at most. gai wins by ripping him apart, either by hirudora, asa kujaku, or with his bare hands.
     
         

  12. #87
    Senior Member Tazzilla88's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzilla88 View Post
    Once gates enter the picture I don't imagine Hidan keeping up, he's canonically stated to have the slowest attacks in all of Akatsuki.
    Gai in gates would dance circles around him, and Gai doesn't need to be that intelligent to decide he doesn't want to be cut but a giant scythe.
    Eventually Gai's punches will leave him immobile. I find the whole Hidan continued on after breaking his femur argument rather poor. Even Part 1 Naruto fought in that state. But no one is saying that part 1 naruto is immune to physical damage. Take for instance, the rotator cup. Should someone destroy his rotator cup the arm attached becomes for all intensive purposes broken. Should the punch his kneecap out of place or destroy it all together his running ability is destroyed. In one's pelvis a small piece of cartilage that connects the hips, should that be knocked out of place by a punch walking would be nearly impossible.

    Then 10 tons argument is quite valid considering the levels of strength we're starting to discuss. Having enough strength that the resulting wind pressure would be able to kill an ordinary person. You have to think of the force behind that punch. What's going on is the no limits fallacy but logically there must be a limit to how much damage he can take. I personally believe the top tier of those with physical strength all surpass those limits (Tsunade, Ay, Gai, Sakura, Third Raikage)

    Finally the reason he can't be hurt by physical means is a sad argument is because the only thing that has ever hurt him has been physical attacks. You would consider the rope a physical object as well as his torture stick and so on. So if these physical objects can hurt him, and he doesn't even use impressive force with his torture stick to hurt himself, what makes people believe he is immune to physical damage. One could even think of chakra blades as physical damage as they take a physical form to accomplish their purpose. But regardless, he's not immune to physical damage, he's a masochist who enjoys pain and has great endurance. But considering how easily he's stabbed himself his durability is not as how as people make it out to be.
    I'd like to get a response to this from those who say Hidan would win.
     
         

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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Liath View Post
    lol dk i thought i lost you there for a sec.. yeah dont see what the big debate is about. even if hidan manages to get some blood, gai's speed and power in the gates wont let him ingest it, draw the symbol and make his move..even if its just gai beat the living shit out of "immortal hidan" he wont have the time to draw the symbol in gais blood and stab himself, let alone stand in the symbol for long even if he manages to draw it. though keeping hidan on his toes and preventing him from making the symbol and executing himself makes it a mid diff fight at most. gai wins by ripping him apart, either by hirudora, asa kujaku, or with his bare hands.
    You're wrong on so many levels I do not even know where to start.
    Saying Guy won't let him do anything is simply stupid. Last time I checked Guy can't activate his gates instantly, Hidan can draw the symbol with his own blood. None of the attacks you stated could even incapacitate Hidan. Guy stands no chance of winning, deal with it.
     
         

  14. #89
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzilla88 View Post
    I'd like to get a response to this from those who say Hidan would win.
    You basically bringing the same points everyone has been doing. Just read through the thread and you will have you answer.
     
         

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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    You basically bringing the same points everyone has been doing. Just read through the thread and you will have you answer.
    Let's discuss them specifically, people have been dodgy throughout this entire thread.

    So what exactly does it mean for Hidan to be immune to physical damage when he has been harmed, by physical damage. And his self mutilation doesn't even require a lot of a force which brings me to the next point.

    What makes you all think he can take the concentrated force provided by one of strength's top tiers. Nothing in his feats suggest he is capable of that. Even if you want to use Kakuzu's wind as an example, the force is spread out. Spreading the force our reduced the amount of damage done to a particular spot. As opposed to one of Gai's punches.

    And please tell me how would his knee cap respond to being punched out of socket or having his rotary cup torn? You only provided me another dodgy answer. I've read the entire thread before I posted. I posted because I was unsatisfied with the answers provided.

    In addition I know what sticklers some people are for the databooks and in terms of taijutsu prowess Gai would surpass Hidan, but since I'm not fond of databooks feats would suggest Hidan would have a hard time getting an attack on Gai.

    Overall I find post that defend Hidan, severely lacking in substance and relying far too heavily on speculation.
     
         

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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Itachi View Post
    I'm not going to waste time writing an enourmous paragraph you'll just discredit.

    - Hidan can't move on broken limbs. It makes absolutely no sense for him to walk on a leg that is broke in half. It's impossible physically. If Hidan's skull is punched into his spine, he will be incapacitated.

    - Kakuzu's Fuuton was nowhere as big as Hirudora. Hirudora is far more dangerous. Scans stating that Fuuton waa pressurized air?

    - Do you realize how much speed and force it takes to create fireballs from the sheer friction of a punch? It's far beyond a semi-truck moving at 100mph, which is easily 10 tons.

    - Hidan stabbed his leg. Where does it say it broke his femur? It was a stab injury. Big freakin' whoop. Kisame has tanked FAR greater attacks than Hidan has. Hirudora, Asakujaku, etc. Those are certainly far more powerful attacks than being stabbed in the leg and a small Fuuton blast.

    - Gai is a greater Taijutsu expert than Hidan. What's preventing Gai from disarming Hidan with his speed, and using his scythe against him? Gai may be stupid, but dodging a scyte and stealing from your opponent is pretty basic tactic. Gai's speed can't be reacted to by Hidan.

    - You don't seem to understand; with enough speed, I could cut a block of iron in half with a marshmallow. I've already stated that Gai's punches are far beyond a semi truck moving at 100mph, his punches move so fast they create fireballs from the sheer friction. Do you understand how fast that is? It would cut through Hidan. Kisame's durability > Hidan's. Hidan's best tanking feat is a basic fuuton blast. Kisame tanked an enourmous Noon Tiger attack that blew away a forrest.

    Talking without the head on his shoulders is also physically impossible
     
         

  17. #92
    Molten Dragon AGoodBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzilla88 View Post
    Let's discuss them specifically, people have been dodgy throughout this entire thread.

    So what exactly does it mean for Hidan to be immune to physical damage when he has been harmed, by physical damage. And his self mutilation doesn't even require a lot of a force which brings me to the next point.

    What makes you all think he can take the concentrated force provided by one of strength's top tiers. Nothing in his feats suggest he is capable of that. Even if you want to use Kakuzu's wind as an example, the force is spread out. Spreading the force our reduced the amount of damage done to a particular spot. As opposed to one of Gai's punches.

    And please tell me how would his knee cap respond to being punched out of socket or having his rotary cup torn? You only provided me another dodgy answer. I've read the entire thread before I posted. I posted because I was unsatisfied with the answers provided.

    In addition I know what sticklers some people are for the databooks and in terms of taijutsu prowess Gai would surpass Hidan, but since I'm not fond of databooks feats would suggest Hidan would have a hard time getting an attack on Gai.

    Overall I find post that defend Hidan, severely lacking in substance and relying far too heavily on speculation.
    Yourlast paragraph is so ironic.

    All of the guy arguments are speculation. Guys never shown any of these feats. He's never blasted a hole in someone's chest but he can suddenly rip people open.
    Hid an can talk with his spinal cord disconnected and no blood pumping to his head, but a broken bone is supposed to stop him.
    Guy, without Intel, is supposed to instantly know about the ritual circle and for some reason do all he can to stop it.
    Guys never blown a crater into the ground throughsheer power but he's supposed to rip someone apart?
    Guys gate attacks use high speed motion to cause indirect damage from wind pressure, but this is supposed to even affect a guy that walked out of a forest destroying air blast?

    All of this is incredible speculate not even supported by manga.

    "Guy will punch hidans head into his spine" bull. Shit.
     
         

  18. #93
    Senior Member Zexion~'s Avatar
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    An unforeseen situation… An
    unexpected turn of events…
    In the face of those, you too
    will face your true self.
     

    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Itachi View Post
    Sorry but this is wrong.

    Gai's speed in base form rivals body flicker technique. If you want, I can find the scan for you of him appearing to punch a shinobi through a cement wall.

    Hidan was blown apart by bomb tags, and regardless Hidan isn't invincible. Bones can be broken, limbs can be shoved into his body, etc.

    Gai has enough strength per punch to collapse Hidan's bones into themselves.
    Has he ever done that ? no so we really can not say he does ...

    I think gai's speed in gates is too much for hidan .. so he could take it if he finishes it beforehand
     
         

  19. #94
    Sunbro pateuvasiliu's Avatar
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    Re: Hidan vs. Gai

    Saying Guy won't let him do anything is simply stupid. Last time I checked Guy can't activate his gates instantly
    Stopped reading there.

    Guy can activate gates instantly.

    But he doesn't need them. He beats Hidan in base.
     
         

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