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  1. #1
    Sage of the Six Paths vicdrucker's Avatar
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    People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Ever since Chapter 599 of Naruto was released last August, everybody has been decrying Kishimoto as a now terrible writer who has completely lost the will to write an engagingly intricate story. For the first few months, I a was among the ranks of those who did. However, in light of recent events, it's become ever more apparent to me that although making Tobi turn out to be Izuna, Kagami or someone would have been grossly interesting, deciding to make Obito turn out to be Tobi in the long run was an incredibly wise plot choice on Kishimoto's part, both for the sake of setting up surprise elements, and the sake of creating an interestingly logical and awesome plotline.

    And by that I mean, think of it in terms that during Kakashi Gaiden, Kishimoto introduced the characters of Obito and Rin, as well as the complex bonds shared between Team Minato. For Tobi to be Obito in my mind is just a brilliant in Yes Obito got crushed by a boulder, however the fact that he survived certainly made for an interesting plot twist. Yet there is one more issue that bothers me about people scoffing at Obito, namely the loss of Rin.

    You have to think of it from the point of view of a man who has nothing left. Love is an insidiously powerful force, and if you deny that you're either a troll, a frackin idiot, or asexual. Obito loved Rin immensely, yet she loved Kakashi, his partner, who he could never live up to. If Kishimoto's good at anything, it's tweaking emotions in his stories to add complexity to bonds shared between individuals. So Obito could never get the girl that he loved, he knew that in his heart. When he "died", he knew the woman he loved would never love him, but would always love Kakashi. So he left him the dying wish to protaect the only thing he truly loved. Just think about what that would mean to the guy. Then, an unknown time later, he wakes up underground, and he's trapped there for how long? Years. You think that after years of solitude, you don't become a tad bit batty. And considering the whole time his was sole motivation for returning to the forefront of battle was Kakashi, and Rin. Then, to see what he saw, Kakashi, the man he had left the mantle of his heart to, stabbing Rin through the chest. The only thing that had existed his heart, destroyed in front of his eyes, by the very one who he held in his heart. I know it sounds like a big soap opera, but you have to consider the fact that every good villain needs humanity, and a shattered being can mold the most pitiful of villains.

    To say his lunacy and grief is unfounded is ridiculous, all the more so considering the revelations that Tobirama shared with Sasuke of the nature of the sharingan. If I need remind you, when an Uchiha knows a strong love, and has it hurt or torn from him, it warps him into an entity of hatred, reflected by a new eye. The sharingan. It changes the Shinobi. But anyhow, how can one not sympathize with him after losing Rin, the only person that had truly mattered to him. For people to say that this is a stupid plot element, it isn't. It's coherent, logical, and more than that, sets the stage for what is to happen and plot developments on awesomely unforeseen levels.

    One must take into account how it fits with the whole mantra of the Naruto storyline, Obito acting as a force that throws all of Naruto's power, all of his confidence into doubt, teaches him that for all of his effort and for all of his power, he can't save everyone. That he is weak. This in itself defines a good villain, one who challenges all that composes the protagonist.

    More than being badass accessories to the battle, the Hokages serve the purpose, I think as far as this chapter is concerned, it stands to prove that for all of their might, all of their incredibly raw power, they are simply no match for this "Juubito." Considering he has not only the Mangekyou Sharingan, not only the Rinnegan, not only the Mokuton, but the power of the Juubi itself yields him as nearly unstoppable.

    And to say that Juubito is a bad development from Kishimoto, give me one reason why. For one thing, this being isn't even the final form of the Juubi. With the amount of strength this form has, how can one begin to even imagine an inkling bit of the power the truest form of the Juubi holds. A truly frightening concept indeed. One idea I have is that it requires chakra of the Hachibi and Kyuubi, but I'm probably wrong... But in any event, consider what this new form of Obito represents.

    In his fight with Kakashi, he realizes how he still is lesser than Kakashi. This new ultimate Obito represents all of the original's internal, venomous hatred that he wants to lash about upon the world, to fill the seas with blood. With the Juubi's boundless power coursing through his body, and concentrated so densely in a tiny vessel like Obito, his power is monstrously destructive, as demonstrated in his making child's play of the Hokages. And as demonstrated in his inhuman response to Minato that he has fully been consumed by this demon of hatred and has lost all ability to rationally think. In my opinion, that is a ridiculously cool way to progress Obitio's character further, in a way I'd never foreseen.

    for Madara, to think that he is down for the count is moronic and ignorant of Madara's true nature. He wields incredible power as well, power he hasn't fully begun to demonstrate to the ASF. For him to be calm in what the reader would think would be the complete undoing of his plans isn't some stupid gaffe by Kishimoto, it symbolizes that he still has the means of achieving his ends, whatever they may end up being. Besides, we still know he has his trump card, though he may be referring to the Perfect Susanoo, or Infinite Tsukuyomi. For him to keep his cool demonstrates that he's yet to truly demonstrate the full of his power, and is by no means out of the game.

    As for Orochimaru and the Kages, to believe that Orochimaru has simply converted to the side of justice is a foolish notion. You can't forget just how evil that snakey bastard is. No, to think that he's lost his desire to be immortally powerful is foolish. And while I'm at it, I might as well state my opinion on the situation with Sasuke and Naruto. Considering Sasuke's sudden clear minded change of heart, the story has taken a twist for the interesting, as I had always imagined Sasuke to remain shrouded in the darkness. But to believe that he has lost his place as Naruto's rival to the very end is folly. There fight will yet happen, perhaps over the title of Hokage. Because as was evident in the previous chapters, Sasukes intent with the title of Hokage is to radically overhaul the system of the Hidden Leaf Village. Now why might that not sit well with Naruto, who wanted to preside as Hokage over the Konoha he loved. Read between the lines is what I'm trying to say. Anyhow, my point is that this is what I see as the rising conflict between Sasuke and Nauto, which may serve for a very interesting plot point, seeing how Orochimaru will be involved.

    But to close, from all of the things I said, just keep in mind the idea of a story, how it's supposed to make sense, and how it's supposed to play to the better part of the readers imagination. Understand how each of the things I discussed aren't things to be decried as being bad plot elements, as they help the story progress in an interesting and imaginative manner.
     
         
    Last edited by Pekoms; 07-10-2013 at 01:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Lmfao. I love this guy
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member sandy uzumaki's Avatar
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    All according to plan.
     

    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Too big.


    OT: Just calm down, thats how ppl are in NB
     
         

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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Hmm, I think you needed to use some paragraphs. No one will read all of that.
     
         

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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    You should have put the words: 'Rant Over' at the end. In capitals. And in bold.
     
         

  6. #6
    Sage of the Six Paths vicdrucker's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    I'm sorry guys, the formatting is all jacked up for some reason.
     
         
    Last edited by Pekoms; 07-10-2013 at 02:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Ldude's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSimple View Post
    Madara- not doing anything, all for the sake of plot.
    Obito- started this because Rin.
    Sasuke- keep changing his mind.
    Orochimaru- a sudden change of his heart even it's a little- weird.
    Sakura- main character yet her teacher did more.
    Jubi- a monster that was suppose to be unstoppable yet they can do whatever they want with it, even a dying man can become it's jin.


    Should I continue?
    Madara- he's being cocky
    Obito- is trying to change the nature of the world because of his emotional scars
    Sasuke- he's still deciding what he wants to achieve, but in the mean time, letting obito win is dangerous, he never intended to let obito take over
    orochimaru- also doesn't want madara or obito to take over so he must cooperate
    sakura- she's been showing up a lot lately and kakashi is a main character too
    juubi- you're saying that as if he hadn't made numerous preparations for 18 years to become the jin
     
         

  8. #8
    Sage of the Six Paths vicdrucker's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSimple View Post
    Madara- not doing anything, all for the sake of plot.
    Obito- started this because Rin.
    Sasuke- keep changing his mind.
    Orochimaru- a sudden change of his heart even it's a little- weird.
    Sakura- main character yet her teacher did more.
    Jubi- a monster that was suppose to be unstoppable yet they can do whatever they want with it, even a dying man can become it's jin.
    Naruto "the savior", "the prophecy" where's the savior? nuff said.


    Should I continue?
    You just simplified and dehumanized the entire story to a terrible extent :/ Think. And What are you talking about with Sakura? As for the Juubi, Obito has three of the six rikudou paths. I think 3.
     
         

  9. #9
    Lost Artist veggetta13's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    You´re argument is well defended, as a fan.

    I take the story as a fan and as a reader, cause there´s no chance of presetting my own personal reactions towards the changes and adjustments made in the series. I do agree with ya, the pick of roles given to Obito made him candidate for taking over the juubi power, however take in account to the feeling of so many other Naruto fans whom feel , not Only Obito, but even Madara at moments or Hashirama juggle the center of deviation by kishi.

    At one moment readers just stop feeling amazed about the manga cuz it seems kishi´s in da mood of having a plot twist every month, which stops -at least me- thinking about d story as something that mtaches a s a whole.
    Once again, agreed it is somebody else´s story, but a story that from time to time is legendary and at others laugh worth.

    I´m glad the kages are being given a shit load of panels, worth the EDO TENSEI burnout . nOW WE continue on with Mr. Madara, again yeah!!!
     
         

  10. #10
    Sage of the Six Paths vicdrucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverfoxUchiha View Post
    You should have put the words: 'Rant Over' at the end. In capitals. And in bold.
    Hahaha I suppose I should've

    Quote Originally Posted by itachi4real View Post
    Who do u expect to read all this....u had sooo much to say
    ...Yea, that's why I kinda made the thread.
     
         
    Last edited by Pekoms; 07-10-2013 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Spam: double-posting

  11. #11
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    So did anybody read all that ?

    I agree that people should shut up with that
     
         

  12. #12
    Member naughtynaruto's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    okay, seriously. brick wall of text. i am on a laptop and its hard to read that just because everything is run on and smooched together.
    Most people think he lost it because of Edo Tensai burn out. We are tired of seeing dead people come back. It is lame. Cool the first time. Lazy the 900 times after that.
    Also, random power ups for the sake of....actually i have no idea why. Thats why it is annoying.
    Also, all technique has gone out of the window. Kishi wants someone to win, they just do now instead of it being a cerebral fight using ninjutsu. Either its a ninjutsu spam or the character pulls random move #28 out of their asses to beat their opponent.

    Biggest reason why I am annoyed at Naruto? Sage mode. Jiraya was one of the best ninjas of all time. He couldn't perfect sage mode. Naruto does and he uses it...twice? Oh and learns nothing other than taijutsu and bigger rasengan that he can throw.
    The answer to all of this is less characters and better thought out fights. The original Naruto started this formula off incredibly well. It has only gotten lazier since its inception.
     
         

  13. #13
    Things are looking up kira hamer34's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    I agree (át. Least in the title) no way i'm reading all dat
     
         

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    Senior Member Kurama2012's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    i read it all and it all makes sense, i never really looked at obitos importance as a villian for naruto how his relevance is to clash with narutos beliefs

    and about the naruto vs sasuke part i believe kishi is aiming for a similar event like that of the sages sons but with a much more better ending than the sons
     
         

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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    I actually read the whole thing and I agree with you for the most part. In my opinion Kishi is a true artist that thought of a fantastic story and made up a lot of characters that I like and respect.

    There are a few things I'm not totally happy with, which isn't that strange since its allmost impossible to agree with everything the writer came up with in such an immense story.

    I think Obito is a lame character with a lame thinking process. What I'm most disappointed about is the fact that naruto used to be a story about ninjas, and that element is totally gone. Nobody uses ninja tools anymore like kunai's, wires or smoke bombs. I totally lost it when Madara summoned a bunch of freakin meteors.

    Nevertheless i think this is one of the best anime/manga around and i really enjoy it.

    Also, liked reading this thread
     
         

  16. #16
    Pekoms's Avatar
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    Re: People Need to Stop Saying Kishi’s Lost It (Spoilers)

    Okay, peeps. Please, please. If you can't bother to read the original post, don't bother posting, especially to say you didn't.
    Yes, yes. You have to exert some patience when reading a large amount of text. So what?

    Should this habit continue in the thread, warnings/infractions will become available.
     
         

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