[Discussion] Madara, Rinnegan, Kisame, Zetsu and More

[Typhon]

So instead of whining about the recent chapter I'm going to actually attempt to discuss the important events of a great chapter.

1.) Madara and the Rinnegan

This page has so many mysteries:
Naruto 486 - Read Online at Manga Stream

Madara says it would be a good time to take out the Rinnegan. So does this mean that Madara has recovered the body of Nagato? If so what does he plan on doing with it? Can it be implanted like the Sharingan?

2.) Madara and Zetsu

In the top left frame of the page we see Madara from his back. In front of Madara is a structure that looks exactly the same as the appendages that are coming out of the ground along with Zetsu. What exactly is the relationship between Zetsu and Madara? Along with the appendages, there appears to be a large mass of some sort of material in front of Madara. Is this what Zetsu's body is made of? Later in the chapter we see an army of Zetsus, are these clones, or something more? Can Zetsu be "grown" from this mass in front of Madara? This leads to number 3.

3.) Madara's arm.

As we all remember, Madara ripped off his arm when it became infected by Torune's microscopic insects. But in this chapter we see that he has regained an arm. As he is putting the arm "on" we see that it is somewhat slimy. Did Madara grow his arm from the same material that Zetsu may be "grown" from?

4.) Kisame, dead or alive?

Naruto 486 - Read Online at Manga Stream

Until this point we have seen that Madara knew the fate of every Akatsuki member. Zetsu had been spying on them and relaying their fates to Madara. Why not do this for Kisame? Why was Kisame's "death" so different than other Akatsuki members? Every other death was given a good amount of backstory and coverage. Kisame died, and that was it. But now we see that Madara and Zetsu are going to check up on Kisame. If Kisame is in fact dead, are we going to see a tag team battle of Zetsu/Madara vs. Kirabi/Raikage? Or are we going to be shown Kisame holding Kirabi on Samaheda and a dispatched Raikage beside him?

5.) Black Zetsu

Prior to the Kage summit Zetsu split his body in two. One body, the white one, went with Sasuke to the summit and has been following him around since then. The black one however went somewhere else? So where did he go? If Madara doesn't know about Kisame's situation, then he didn't go to watch that fight. And nothing else has been going on since then? So where did he go? Did he go to regain Nagato's body during the Kage summit?


So there you have it. Tons of question from a chapter that nobody is doing anything but whining about. Feel free to take out individual questions and discuss them.

[MS_Evolution]

im gonna need time to think about this one

[niblack89]

So instead of whining about the recent chapter I'm going to actually attempt to discuss the important events of a great chapter.

1.) Madara and the Rinnegan

This page has so many mysteries:
Naruto 486 - Read Online at Manga Stream

Madara says it would be a good time to take out the Rinnegan. So does this mean that Madara has recovered the body of Nagato? If so what does he plan on doing with it? Can it be implanted like the Sharingan?

2.) Madara and Zetsu

In the top left frame of the page we see Madara from his back. In front of Madara is a structure that looks exactly the same as the appendages that are coming out of the ground along with Zetsu. What exactly is the relationship between Zetsu and Madara? Along with the appendages, there appears to be a large mass of some sort of material in front of Madara. Is this what Zetsu's body is made of? Later in the chapter we see an army of Zetsus, are these clones, or something more? Can Zetsu be "grown" from this mass in front of Madara? This leads to number 3.

3.) Madara's arm.

As we all remember, Madara ripped off his arm when it became infected by Torune's microscopic insects. But in this chapter we see that he has regained an arm. As he is putting the arm "on" we see that it is somewhat slimy. Did Madara grow his arm from the same material that Zetsu may be "grown" from?

4.) Kisame, dead or alive?

Naruto 486 - Read Online at Manga Stream

Until this point we have seen that Madara knew the fate of every Akatsuki member. Zetsu had been spying on them and relaying their fates to Madara. Why not do this for Kisame? Why was Kisame's "death" so different than other Akatsuki members? Every other death was given a good amount of backstory and coverage. Kisame died, and that was it. But now we see that Madara and Zetsu are going to check up on Kisame. If Kisame is in fact dead, are we going to see a tag team battle of Zetsu/Madara vs. Kirabi/Raikage? Or are we going to be shown Kisame holding Kirabi on Samaheda and a dispatched Raikage beside him?

5.) Black Zetsu

Prior to the Kage summit Zetsu split his body in two. One body, the white one, went with Sasuke to the summit and has been following him around since then. The black one however went somewhere else? So where did he go? If Madara doesn't know about Kisame's situation, then he didn't go to watch that fight. And nothing else has been going on since then? So where did he go? Did he go to regain Nagato's body during the Kage summit?


So there you have it. Tons of question from a chapter that nobody is doing anything but whining about. Feel free to take out individual questions and discuss them.

Buddy you have made a good thread. I will try to attempt to give good answers. First you ever wondered how did all those bodies receive Rinnegans. I think he will use it like that. But the problem I have is the Rinnegan is like MS the jutsu doesn't come from the eye it came from his powerful chakra and since of jutsu. What will be the point of using the Rinnegan all it did was show chakra and hidden seals. The same thing the sharingan does. All it did was give them shared vission.

Also I think there is a mysterious relationship between Zetsu and Tobi. I wonder if zetsu is the reason as to why Madara is alive he could have healed Madara after his fight with the 1st. Also were is black zetsu? I haven't seen him since they split I though Madara gave him a mission. Zetsu in himself seems bizarre all those clones were probably a real body I don't think zetsu can die at least until his main body is found and destroyed.

I guess he doesn't know that Kasame is dead yet maybe he didn't believe that Kasame will fail.

I have mixed feelings about this chapter but you did bring to my attention that the plot is moving.

[Kyo7763]

Lots of deep ideas here and thats really need. The one thing im really wondering though, if instead of Zetsu following Madara, if it is the other way around? Madara may owe Zetsu for actually doing something for him, so like how we found Tobi to actually be Madara, we may find Zetsu to be the leader of him.
Likewise, with the movement thing, we saw Zet summon TONS of himself, and as we've seen he can can split himself and go to different places. However, does one of the clones need to share vision with Madara sort of like the seal for summoning the 4th so that Madara can actually teleport as fast as he does? Sharing vision via rinnegan may be the option there.
I dunno, lots to think about

[Sharpism]

Buddy you have made a good thread. I will try to attempt to give good answers. First you ever wondered how did all those bodies receive Rinnegans. I think he will use it like that. But the problem I have is the Rinnegan is like MS the jutsu doesn't come from the eye it came from his powerful chakra and since of jutsu. What will be the point of using the Rinnegan all it did was show chakra and hidden seals. The same thing the sharingan does. All it did was give them shared vission.

AND the ability to create ALL elemental techniques.

I have mixed feelings about this chapter but you did bring to my attention that the plot is moving.

Kishi ALWAYS moves the plot, regardless of if its toward the end or another event. I don't know why everyone is so focused on seeing the end, where as you will NOT find another good series like this in a while after it's done.

[Sharpism]

Lots of deep ideas here and thats really need. The one thing im really wondering though, if instead of Zetsu following Madara, if it is the other way around? Madara may owe Zetsu for actually doing something for him, so like how we found Tobi to actually be Madara, we may find Zetsu to be the leader of him.
Likewise, with the movement thing, we saw Zet summon TONS of himself, and as we've seen he can can split himself and go to different places. However, does one of the clones need to share vision with Madara sort of like the seal for summoning the 4th so that Madara can actually teleport as fast as he does? Sharing vision via rinnegan may be the option there.
I dunno, lots to think about

Idk if he wanted a better VISION why not go steal a Byakugan.

Byakugan allows the user to see 360, ontop of that Sharingan slows motion, and then EMS techniques. That would be a better defense. I think Madara's just scared of the Rinnegan and doesn't want it being a nonsense.

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Interesting thread. I actually did not think the chapter was bullshit at all. I don't believe for a second that Naruto will die. I actually thought he said a few very mature things in this chapter.

Remember the Naruto of the first chapter ("Looosers, wannabees, you don't have what it takes to do something this low!") vs. the current Naruto. The "I'll bear the burden of your hatred, we'll die together", "If we do this, and both die, we wont be Uchiha's, Jinchuuriki, or anything. There wont be any burdens to bear, and we'll understand each other in the next world".
It wasn't exactly a great decision, nor do I think it will happen. But I thought it was very well thought out.

Sasuke also seems a bit different in this chapter. Not as evil as he has been in the last couple. He sounds a bit more on the level that he was in the Valley of The End.

I think that Madara has not figured out that Kisame is dead yet. Reason being is that if he had known, Zetsu would have told him because apparently Zetsu can be at more than one place at one time. A bit different from bunshins. This time he was able to tell Madara that Sasuke was in trouble, while being with Sasuke at the same time. Remember that in manga time, Kisame probably died like 30 minutes before that.

[psukkar]

The way they presented the pages regarding the Rinnegan and Madara serveral thoeries could be true. I have only thought of the two below so far.

1) It could be that Madara had the Rinnegan the whole time but covers it up to save chakra the same way Kakashi does with his sharigan. And he's placing the eyes in that plant(in front of him) to persevere it. IF that's the case I'm certain his teleportation abilities to other dimensions, which look so god like in fact came from the Rinnegan (which are said to come from the heavens) and not the Sharigan.

2) Also another theory is the rinnegan was in already in that plant thing and Madara needs that eye to control the 7 bjuu for the war (like how the sage of six paths controlled the juubi). This could also imply Madara doesn't have a right eye most likely from the battle with the first hokage.

Either case guys looks like Madara is trying to act as the Sage of Six paths and he's about to make his big move to the world.

[NipponIchi]

why is sasuke stayin back to hear what naruto has to say? i thought sasuke didnt care anythin bout naruto? and he knows naruto trys to change him and bring him back and in knowing this he still allows him to talk to him one last time instead of resting? and i mean look at p12 sasuke eyes i think his kind of reminicing (cant spell wagged skool alot haha) bout the old days
i dunno im just thinkin theres more to sasuke to come in the future or im just bored as fark.

[GaaratheFifth]

Great thread. IF he has Pain's body, then we can guess that he had a run-in with Konan. I doubt she would want to relinquish it, either. I think that Zetsu/Madara against Kisame/Raikage is a really clever thought. It would take care of 8-tails, and move the story along in an important way.

Also, Madara's profile certainly looks fairly young. I am not sure where his base is. Below Root headquarters? The moon? I cannot wait to find that out.

[NipponIchi]

also why cant every one just call madara/tobi by madara and tobi and stop switching there names up in there posts?just be repetitive with the one name

[MaKo]

It could be that he Madara needs Rinnegan for later to revive 10-tails, take the body from moon as example or seal all tails together. It could be that Rinnegan has better control over beast, but why write whole guide on that old stone :\
OR just as Madara said, he needs someone to sync with Gedo Mazo. Rinnegan may be the tool to use it at full.

[YashMishra]

The way they presented the pages regarding the Rinnegan and Madara serveral thoeries could be true. I have only thought of the two below so far.

1) It could be that Madara had the Rinnegan the whole time but covers it up to save chakra the same way Kakashi does with his sharigan. And he's placing the eyes in that plant(in front of him) to persevere it. IF that's the case I'm certain his teleportation abilities to other dimensions, which look so god like in fact came from the Rinnegan (which are said to come from the heavens) and not the Sharigan.

Kakashi too, can create other dimensions and i feel he may be able to teleport if he trains. Kakashi does not have rinnegan but he can do it too, so basically the ability came from MS.

[ReLax -]

Cant say much bout the rest of this but the rinnagen thing is getting to me. i remember before sasuke went to the 5 kage summit he encounter tobi/madara and when sasuke left tobi/madara was speakingto zetsu bout pein and talking bout how pein used that one tech. and revived all of konoho when that was suppose to be for him. so i dunt know what he plans now seeing all those eyes (sharingan) was there a way he could revive uchiha clan who would be under the control of tobi/madara.

heres the link

Naruto 453 page 18 | One Manga

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

The Madara having the Rinnegan thing actually sounds plausible....

I mean we did see Pain's other paths have the Rinnegan. I wonder how they were implanted?

I see no reason for Madara to have the mask on his face unless he had the Rinnegan.

[psukkar]

also why cant every one just call madara/tobi by madara and tobi and stop switching there names up in there posts?just be repetitive with the one name

I still think there's some mystery whos this man behind the mask is, until Tobi/Madara takes of his mask then I'll believe his stories are all 100% true.
He already lied about having any part of the Fox attacking Konaha against the forth. (Both the forth and Itachi said he did it, and eventually the fox will also spill the beans)

famous quote, "Never trust anyone with a Mask"

[ArizonaMan11]

i loved this chapter so many new "much needed" plots were established.

[psukkar]

Kakashi too, can create other dimensions and i feel he may be able to teleport if he trains. Kakashi does not have rinnegan but he can do it too, so basically the ability came from MS.

Kakashi doesn't really know where the stuff goes when uses his technique on it, he just speculates it must be another dimension as he can't find the objects. For all he knows he could teleport objects to far away places randomly in the world.

Will know for sure what Kakashi technique does when/if he uses it on Madara as he could warp from anywhere including other dimensions. Until then I'm not totally convinced Madara's technique is sharigan exclusive.

[Typhon]

The Madara having the Rinnegan thing actually sounds plausible....

I mean we did see Pain's other paths have the Rinnegan. I wonder how they were implanted?

I see no reason for Madara to have the mask on his face unless he had the Rinnegan.

I don't think the bodies Nagato used actually had the Rinnegan. He was just using the Rinnegan to control them, so they got his eyes. The summons he used also had the Rinnegan. And if you remember when Sasuke summoned Manda during his fight with Deidara, it had the Sharingan as well.

[Narut0h0lic]

madara, one eye sharingan the other rinnegan lool, that would be nice to see what kind of power he would unleash.

does rinnegan have somekind of evolution like mangekyo??

but i thought that konan had nagato's body........

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

I don't think the bodies Nagato used actually had the Rinnegan. He was just using the Rinnegan to control them, so they got his eyes. The summons he used also had the Rinnegan. And if you remember when Sasuke summoned Manda during his fight with Deidara, it had the Sharingan as well.

That is true. But it is also likely that Nagato could have implanted some sort of Rinnegan in them as well. I do support your theory though because at the moment it seems more likely.

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

One thing I wonder is how much control ability does the Sharingan have?

Sasuke was able to control Manda. Madara was able to control the Kyuubi. Not only that, but when they were controlled, it showed an outline of the Sharingan on their eyes. I wonder if the Sharingan can only control the Kyuubi, and not the other tailed beasts? Maybe the connection exists only between the Sharingan and the Kyuubi. I wonder about this, because otherwise Sasuke would not have been able to control Manda? I know Manda isn't a tailed beast. But the genjutsu used to control Manda gave the same effect on Manda's eyes as it did with the Kyuubi when Madara controlled it.

[Dean-Winchester]

the rinnegan situation
well i doubt he had pain read
tablet back then
i doubt pain even knows about the jubi then again
he could know tobi probaly told him a lot of stuff

but in the 1st pic
it looks like he had a rinnegan that belongs to the sage of six paths stored in there

[Dean-Winchester]

As for zetsu tobi kinda gave a clue how strong zetsu is

tobis says" i dont think ......you can take him"and thats only the white half to
and he made that many clones
plus its just an excuse to want saskue to fight naruto

but
this should give us a clue that zetsu is on that s rank level

[kisamexRocks]

As for zetsu tobi kinda gave a clue how strong zetsu is

tobis says" i dont think ......you can take him"and thats only the white half to
and he made that many clones
plus its just an excuse to want saskue to fight naruto

but
this should give us a clue that zetsu is on that s rank level

The thing is, Madara says that he doesn't think Zetsu will be able to CAPTURE Naruto he never said anything about him being able to fight and stand his own against naruto. but I think that Madara still doesn't know what Zetsu's fighting ability actually is since pretty much all Zetsu does is spy work, you never know what he is capable of.

Plus Since Tobi is confirmed to be Madara, why does Zetsu still call him Tobi and not Madara?